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- jtbndy, on 01/14/2008, -27/+128I agree, they don't owe us anything... and yet they're giving us a free XBLA game. Seems win win to me.
Now if only all those 12 year old pimply face kids that have no friends would quit complaining about how they can't play Halo3 or COD4.... - rarson, on 01/14/2008, -18/+84This is why they have EULAs and TOSes, so they can screw the customer if necessary.
- Scopitone, on 01/14/2008, -5/+66"The phrase ‘The Customer is Always Right’ is the single worst philosophy that has ever been adopted by American culture. It gave an entire generation of people the green light to be as impolite, unreasonable, and demanding as their little hearts desired because they were always going to be considered right. It destroyed the entire concept of courtesy and rendered manners obsolete. People began to treat their peers in the service industry like incompetent morons, lacking in feelings or human dignity, who deserved to be browbeaten and abused for no other reason than they had the audacity to run out of a particular brand of coffee. Furthermore, instead of suffering negative repercussions for their appallingly disrespectful behavior, they are awarded with free coupons and plenty of ass kissing. In reality, they should be shunned and humiliated for behaving like such self absorbed little children."
- NSMike, on 01/14/2008, -4/+49Or to protect themselves from frivolous claims and unrealistic expectations of service. Not really trying to defend the fact that Live has been worthless for weeks now, but seriously, outages are par for the course in this kind of technology. To have guaranteed anything would've been utter stupidity on the part of Microsoft and business sense in general. Guaranteed the PS3's online service has a similar disclaimer.
- Alphateam, on 01/14/2008, -13/+56FFS.
They are giving you a FREE game for your troubles. They made a mistake they are trying to make up for it. They can't invent a time machine and retroactively fix the problem. The time lost is gone. What is reasonable??? A free week? A month? A year? Lifetime of Live? They seem to be making good on their mistakes. 3 Years on the Red Ring, a free game for downtime....when will enough be enough? Very few companies would be as generous. - totorototoro, on 01/14/2008, -1/+42Of course they don't, legally. Class action lawsuits are filed all the time with no real legal basis. Greed has no legal basis :p
PR-wise, giving people a free game is a great idea. - 1jaxstate1, on 01/14/2008, -4/+42I'm sure that MS already knows this. It's not that they feel like they legally owe people anything, but they feel like they owe their customers something in return for the downtime, so they won't lose any customers due to it.
- naevity, on 01/14/2008, -1/+28can we file this under the "no ***** sherlock" department?
- Misanthrope, on 01/14/2008, -1/+24I have a feeling they're already aware of their own TOS.
- Heaiser, on 01/14/2008, -8/+25Well, they do deliver a fantastic product with the exception of that 3 week span. The policy is probably there so they wont be legally bound to anything. But they are giving us something for our suffering despite the policy. Is it perfect? No, not by any stretch. Am I alright with the outcome? Yeah. But then again I didn't experience as many problems as some people.
- mattyice11, on 01/14/2008, -1/+17Call of Duty 4 runs at 1024x600 on both the PS3 and 360.
- merreborn, on 01/14/2008, -1/+17Pretty much every EULA/TOS is going to contain a disclaimer like this, unless you have some sort of SLA -- and getting a service with a SLA is very expensive.
So, legally, they don't owe you anything. But it's still a *very* good PR move to compensate your customers when you screw up. If any company offers an intermittent service, and fails to compensate their customers, they're going to lose their customers. - fkr3, on 01/14/2008, -4/+20Or just cut them some slack because there are very few online services that include any kind of warranty.
- xXGeechXx, on 01/14/2008, -0/+14People want to bitch and complain about everything if something free in it is for them... Its like those old ***** ladies who bitch about mediocre food in a resteraunt hoping for free food or a discount... Im just sick of people bitching about this and rquesting some sort of redemption, a couple weeks of unstable Xbox live isn't going to kill you... In fact a couple weeks with no live could really benefit some people...
- blindhammer, on 01/14/2008, -2/+15Apparently, Xbox Live has become an entitlement.
- Alphateam, on 01/14/2008, -1/+14EVERY company that uses technology WILL have problems. It is unavoidable. It is just how they correct their mistakes is how they should be judged.
- Mr.Gone, on 01/14/2008, -1/+13Speaking as a customer service/tech support rep for Comcast I would just like to say, I love you.
- apollo168, on 01/14/2008, -10/+21Way to bring it to their attention. If I miss out on a free copy of Catan I'm going to be PISSED...
- mannymix03, on 01/14/2008, -2/+12""The phrase ‘The Customer is Always Right’ is the single worst philosophy that has ever been adopted by American culture. It gave an entire generation of people the green light to be as impolite, unreasonable, and demanding as their little hearts desired because they were always going to be considered right. It destroyed the entire concept of courtesy and rendered manners obsolete. People began to treat their peers in the service industry like incompetent morons, lacking in feelings or human dignity, who deserved to be browbeaten and abused for no other reason than they had the audacity to run out of a particular brand of coffee. Furthermore, instead of suffering negative repercussions for their appallingly disrespectful behavior, they are awarded with free coupons and plenty of ass kissing. In reality, they should be shunned and humiliated for behaving like such self absorbed little children.""
I wish i could dig you up 100 times, as a teenager working a customer service job you have no idea how much people abuse the system. I had one old lady tell me that because she had a minor inconvenience and she lost her Drivers license in our of our theaters because it was dark (no ***** lady!), we found it about 2 minutes later and she asked me "So am i getting free passes?"
"Excuse me mam?"
"I want free passes, my heart is racing right now!"
"sorry mam, if you read the back of the ticket we aren't liable for any personal property loss, and we did find your license"
"I have a heart condition, I could have died!"
"Mam, we found your license in two minutes"
"DON'T YOU KNOW WHAT THE MEANING OF CUSTOMER SERVICE IS, I DESERVE FREE PASSES"
Too bad that heart condition didnt kill her... - GREEDOnvrFIRED, on 01/14/2008, -2/+11I am not a heavy online gamer. I do 3 or 4 hours a week. I gotta say that I personally am amazed every time the system puts a team together and places us all in a map. I am amazed every time i see the number of people currently connected, I am amazed that we are connected by voice, that our stats are saved and that everything works as well as it does. I have been playing right thru this whole "issue" and i admit to having to wait a few extra minutes and having to re-do some matchmaking, but my reaction is "hang in there system you are doing a great job." This lawsuit reaction reminds of that little f**ker screaming at his mom to get him a soda while she begs him to stop his on-line play.
- turpenine, on 01/14/2008, -2/+11I am a college student and was complaining because i was stuck at my families house with nothing to do. Thing is, I had planned to play xbox as sad as it sounds.
- dnields, on 01/14/2008, -2/+11Well, despite popular belief... TOS's, EULA's, Extended Warranties...etc... are all put into place, not to protect the customer, but rather the company/service provider/manufacturer. I wonder why most people don't realize this.
- StemsNSeeds, on 01/14/2008, -1/+10yeah, well i have TWO ex-NFL cheerleader girlfriends AND a ferrari
- Shakermaker, on 01/14/2008, -2/+11I'm in my 30's and complaining about not being able to play CoD4. It pisses me off more than anything, but whatever - a free XBLA game sounds more than fair to me as "compensation" for the down time.
- areohbe, on 01/14/2008, -1/+9is anyone really surprised? I never thought they "owed" me anything anyway.
- jamiroquai, on 01/14/2008, -1/+9And your girlfriend's looks/profession is relevant to the discussion because ...
- delmar14, on 01/14/2008, -3/+11Microsoft didn't have to extend the 360's warranty either, but in the interest of customer satisfaction, they did.
- AlienHairball, on 01/14/2008, -0/+8thanks for adding nothing meaningful what so ever to the discussion.
- diggB, on 01/14/2008, -0/+8FTA.
"But first, here’s a little fun fact for you: In so many words, you agree not to threaten anyone or do something that promotes or expresses racism, bigotry, hatred, profanity or illegal drug use, among many other things. I’ve gotta think that incriminates roughly 92% of Xbox Live’s population."
So, I know the next time I'm on Halo 3 and somebody calls me a "f'cking n00b", I'll have a witty comeback at my disposal like "Well yeah! You just violated your Xbox Live's Terms of Service agreement! So there!". That'll put the fear of God in them, I'm sure. - FMWatkins, on 01/14/2008, -1/+9Interesting comment. Reminds me of the effects of the Stanford Prison Experiment. Granting people immunity from the consequences of their actions tends to bring out the worst in them.
For those who are interested: http://www.prisonexp.org/ - dtt1167, on 01/14/2008, -1/+8Thank you....
The customer is not always right... however, there is always a right way to handle a wrong customer.
Personally, I think its above expectations to have a free game to XBL Customers. Also ToS for your internet connections very rarely have uptime minimums, yet you will always hear people, including me, bitch about any downtime seen. its not like its completely down, just a portion. - lnxfi, on 01/14/2008, -0/+7I've had my 360 break twice. Both times they've fixed it and sent it back within 2 weeks. Also, they've given me 2 free months of xbox live and 2 free games. I could complain and call them names, but what would that get me? A two hour headache? They've chalked this up to 'sh*t happens' and rectified the situation.
- Hollister, on 01/14/2008, -1/+7I fail to see why some people are so whiny over this. Major networks are bound to have some outages sometimes. This is common sense, thus the in the terms of service we agree to such. So why when it happens does everyone think that they should be owed something? Microsoft doing more than they have to by giving a free game away anyway.
- rarson, on 01/14/2008, -2/+8Yeah, but you don't have to pay for the PS3's service.
- Sairgem, on 01/14/2008, -1/+7I don't know how many times it's been said, but it's not the fact that the kiddies can't play Halo and Call of Duty. It's the fact that I own a ***** of XBLA games, and thanks to the DRM and the fact that I had to buy a new 360 because my first one broke on me, I can't play any of those games when XBL is down. No, it's not that I can't play online with them. I simply can't PLAY them. Because of the DRM, they're reduced to trials when I can't sign onto XBL. Get it yet? Quit insulting everyone who complains, calling them pimply faced nerds with no lives, because they can't play games they paid good money for. I've probably spent $300+ on xbla games (here come the insults for that), and I want to be able to ***** play them.
- rarson, on 01/14/2008, -0/+6Who ever said that TOSes and EULAs were put into place to protect the customer?
Furthermore, you have the option of buying the extended warranty. - sm4k, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5Probably the same reason this 'newly discovered evidence' is somehow shocking to so many people.
- Cyrus042, on 01/14/2008, -3/+8From what I understand, some individuals have been having issues for up to 3 weeks now. Regardless of their ToS, reason states that if you charge someone for a service and cannot adequately deliver it then you at least offer the customer a refund. I personally think that Microsoft does owe their customers something. 1 Month added to their subscription sounds like fair compensation of 3 weeks + on-going stability issues.
When Blizzard was having server stability issues, customers had been credited for the days they were not given reasonable service. The customer is not always right, and the business isn't always right. This is about coming to a fair conclusion for bad service. The lawsuit is stupid, no doubt, but just because players are over-reacting, doesn't mean that Microsoft is absolved from all responsibility. The individuals who act like they're amazingly grateful when a company throws them table scraps isn't any better than one that over-reacts. - tmessing, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5Very aware of it. I complained about Xbox live while talking to a CSR (RRoD) and he was real nice, but said you can complain all you want only thing they will say is that they're giving you a free game.
- UncleCrapper, on 01/14/2008, -1/+6Microsoft's terms of service are not scripture. Only a court of law can decide if Microsoft's terms of service are reasonable or unconscionable, and for that you would have to take them to court. Companies can and do insert all sorts of legally questionable terms into their contracts and terms of service, but that doesn't make them legal.
Ski hills print a wide ranging liability waiver on the back on their lift tickets, but that does not magically absolve them of any responsibility should a guest find themselves injured or worse because of an act or omission on the part of the ski hill. There was a case in Canada a few years ago concerning this precise scenario. Of course, the ski hill lost because the judge explained that only a court can decide when and where liability begins and ends, not some piece of paper. - spectecjr, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5Or you could rank them down. Just sayin'.
- inactive, on 01/14/2008, -1/+6Yep, and online services with any form of uptime guarantee or warranty are the exception, not the rule.
- lnxfi, on 01/14/2008, -1/+6you don't make money by pissing it out the window
- sm4k, on 01/14/2008, -1/+5I understand your frustration, as the xbox live downtime usually adds about 20 to 25 seconds of wait before I can play a game before the console gives up on trying to connect, however there are alternative services to XBL. PCs and PS3's can also play Call of Duty 4. If it really hinders your enjoyment of CoD4 you can get the exact same game in a different market. I know the upfront investment is high, but it's an option. I love my Xbox as much as anyone else, but you're not trapped here. If you wanted to change you could easily sell the xbox on craig's list or some other service and pay a little extra for a PS3. I understand that not everyone can afford to do that, and most people own an Xbox for more than just CoD4 (like me) but your situation sounds like that solution would easily fix it.
As for actually thinking that Microsoft isn't going to fix it unless we 'force their hand'... come on. That's absolutely immature and totally ridiculous. Their biggest advantage in this generation of consoles is having intermittent outages, and their customers are just about the most vocal in all of consumerism. If you think they don't have people working on a solution just because they don't feel like it, then you've got another think coming. - inactive, on 01/14/2008, -0/+4That kind of scenario is the entire basis of consumerist.com. Customers who expect way too much compensation for minor inconveniences...most of which are caused by their own stupidity.
- Inverno, on 01/14/2008, -0/+4I don't know what area you cover (if they even divy it that way) but I'd say Comcast is pretty unreasonable where I live. I try not to take it out on the reps, but your corporate policies don't make it easy for me to keep a positive attitude while on the phone. I've been in your shoes--which is why I take internal calls now. Dealing with the public sucks, but some times the company creates irate customers.
- chedabob, on 01/14/2008, -0/+4Violent Acres
http://www.violentacres.com/archives/59 - thedragon4453, on 01/14/2008, -1/+5I also work in the service industry. I've had this type of situation happen about a thousand times. It doesn't bother me as much when people expect something when we've screwed up, but when the customer ***** up and expects compensation, thats ridiculous. Its like demanding Ford upgrade your Focus to a Jaguar because you didn't put oil in your Focus for 50,000 miles.
- inactive, on 01/14/2008, -0/+4Popular belief says that EULAs were never meant to benefit the customer, only protect the originating company.
- sugarazor, on 01/14/2008, -1/+5To say they have no competition or incentive to fix it is a ridiculous claim. In the eyes of a businessman, hours not spent playing XBL are hours spent doing something else like surfing the web, downloading music, watching TV, or playing PS3/Wii. Not to mention, people pay for advertising on XBL; you don't think they're advertising an HD download of 300 because they really like the film, do you? No, Warner Bros. purchased ad space to promote it on XBL dashboards. If the service is down, then your numbers won't lie, people are not seeing that ad and sponsors will want an explanation.
There's plenty of incentive to get XBL back to 100% -
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