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99 Comments
- Superman007, on 11/16/2007, -4/+61I would take free GamerPics for the Achievments I unlock. Most of the pics for the achievements are better than the GamerPics you can buy.
- MyNamesTaken, on 11/16/2007, -1/+23Totally agree. Achievements are a great incentive to not just waltz straight through a game. Would be even better if they could add some small rewards for 100% completed games.
- navster15, on 11/16/2007, -4/+24One thing about making Achievements matter is that it may devalue to difficulty of them. Developers may realize that gamers are merely looking to get as many points as possible and may eliminate the Achievements that really test your skill. I feel that would undercut the original spirit of the Achievements system.
- Rustymetal, on 11/16/2007, -3/+21MS charges like $5 for xbox dashboard themes and pictures, its totally rape. Talk about nickel and dimming me. It would be nice to get free stuff with achievements.
- casper1066, on 11/16/2007, -4/+16I know it is sad but the achievements add a sense of purpose and meaning to my empty life ;)
- matthafling, on 11/16/2007, -1/+11Please for the love of God never open a business, b/c I don't want my tax dollars to have to bail you out 6 months later.
- cbrunet, on 11/16/2007, -12/+21It's funny, I just blogged about the "Ethics of Achievements" ( http://www.n-philes.com/n-sights/index.php?id=292 ) the other day, and this goes exactly with it. With the Achievement in it's current iteration, no one is losing from glitched Achievements, or cheating to gain Achievements. So what happens if MS starts offering reasons to Achieve? Would you start seeing an influx in people accepting cheating for Achievements? Would MS have to start policing these cheats, or punishing studios for giving away achievements too easily? It completely changes the game when you start exchanging achievements for real world goods. I really don't think its something they can do, though it would be great if they did.
- ohmyblazes, on 11/16/2007, -1/+8Wow. I logged in just to dig you down.
- inactive, on 11/16/2007, -0/+7"Ok buds, all ten of you stand there while i throw a nade in the middle so you all die at once and get my the Nade achievement. Then you can do it yourself."
Thats the reason Microsoft would never implement decent ideas like this. - supertom, on 11/16/2007, -8/+15As great as that would be, some gamers would find a way to cheat the system.
- NSMike, on 11/16/2007, -1/+8You're an ass. Blog spam means someone puts a blurb on their own blog about a real news story with a link to the original story and tries to gain hits and ad revenue from it. When someone writes their own thoughts on a subject on their blog, it's not blog spam.
- Exhaust, on 11/16/2007, -1/+6So you figure out ways to find the cheaters and punish them. If you only did things that were fool proof nothing would ever get done.
- NinjaBoy, on 11/16/2007, -1/+6I say if someone goes through all this trouble, they still deserve something.
- inactive, on 11/16/2007, -3/+8No need for an apology if your post is relevant to the conversation, which it is.
- whisperedlie, on 11/16/2007, -1/+6there are some good ideas there. i do have to say that i'm happy with achievements as they already are. i've never had something that does and means so little have such a huge impact on gaming. honestly, i enjoy my Wii and PS3 even less because they don't have an equivalent (I know some PS3 games have it, but it's not the same). it gives me lots of new goals and reasons to play the game other than to just beat the game. it makes me look at the game in a new way, enjoy the fine details of a game more when i am looking to accomplish some task that may not necessarily have anything to do with the story or the end game. it's a source of pride and it even provides some friendly competition amongst friends. it also make crappy games a little less crappy (hence giving you a little more reason to try out games that you normally wouldn't).
- schoate09, on 11/16/2007, -0/+4That's not entirely true. I don't care if it was a scheme, it gives me more incentive to go back and do little things here and there to get extra points, where on regular games, I'd normally end playing.
- WarmMachine, on 11/16/2007, -0/+4I think it would be a great idea if they tied achievements into something more. For example you unlock all 1000 points for a game you unlock a free dashboard theme of the game, maybe some tags with 500 point completed. Also tie unlocking items in the game with achievements is a good idea, and several game already have unlock ables.
This could work because the point of achievements is two fold, first to make the xbox version more attractive to people and secondly to have people not trade in their games as soon. Trading in games hurts games sales because only the retailer is making money not the people who create the game, and the bulk of a games sales normally come with in the first month. - TheTaoOfBill, on 11/17/2007, -0/+3Why would I want to download the exact same game?
- inactive, on 11/16/2007, -1/+4Worst idea ever. Please elaborate on why rented games, used games, and even borrowing from friends should not contribute to one's GamerScore?
- radiometric, on 11/18/2007, -0/+3You are a dumbass. You've broken the rules for no reward, and in so doing made sure that there never will be a reward for those that don't break the rules.
People are ticked at you for being a douche. You've taken an achievement that doesn't mean ***** in the real world, and made it worth less than *****.
You're no better than the ***** ruining my games by standing in a line and lasering each other. - paidhima, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3I don't necessarily agree with giving games away to high achievers, but your views on what's fair and not fair seem decidedly biased - same with your comment on MMOs.
I'll take a quick stab at your second comment first and let you in on a secret: many of the people that have reached the highest levels of MMOs don't spend all day and night playing. I've played EverQuest for almost seven years, and been both a "casual" player and "hardcore raider" at the top of the game. I can say, without hesitation, that I spent 2-3 times *more* playtime as a casual player than a raider. When I was at the top of the game, seeing and completing content that only a couple hundred other players (out of hundreds of thousands) had even seen yet, I logged less than 1/4 the time I did when I was a casual player. High-end players aren't lifeless, obsessive nutcases parodied in the media. Yeah, ok, some are borderline insane, but the vast, vast majority at the high end are not.
As far as the overall comment goes, I think you're throwing around "fair" and "unfair" entirely too liberally. To achieve anything takes time and effort. Those that put in the time and effort, and achieve, deserve rewards. If I train as a baseball player from the time I could hold a mitt, practice and work hard, is it unfair that I achieve a spot in the Yankee line-up over you, who gave it up in junior high and plays in a local league on weekends? - ronnsprocket, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3dugg for random hockey pics.
stream of consciousness FTW! - ericrous, on 11/16/2007, -1/+4Tell me again how exactly it would benefit them to have you slowly working your way through every game instead of rushing through and quickly buying a new one? Why would they want to ENCOURAGE you to buy fewer games and play longer on the ones you have?
- rderveloy, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3You say you want something that rewards your high xbox gamerscore?
Sorta something like an "Xbox Rewards" program?
Funny, I thought they already had one: http://xboxrewards.msgamestudios.com/ - HolyChimp, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3You just got 10% off those gamer pictures, so we're taking your 10,000 gamerscore...
That would go down well. - DrZocktahedron, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2I wouldn't say that you didnl't accomplish NOTHING. It may not be useful, but beating Though The Fire And Flames on Expert is accomplishing something.
I would like to see a change in the achievement system, though. - mikeyeah, on 11/18/2007, -0/+2I'm addicted to achievements and I don't know why. When I first heard that MS would be implementing an achievement system, I thought it was a silly idea for the same reason that the gentlemen in this article points out. But I have to say that after playing the 360 for the past 2 years that I'm really an achievement whore. They make me do things in games that I wouldn't normally do, just to get some points to bulk up my gamerscore.
If Mr. Softie decided to give rewards for your gamerscore that would be icing on the achievement cake. C'mon Bill, you can afford it. - inactive, on 11/16/2007, -6/+8Wow. That was naive.
The goal of achievement points is simply to keep you playing and paying. They serve no other purpose. It's a little like coffeshop membership cards. By making you prepay for something with a tiny little rebate as an incentive, they make you choose to go to that coffee shop instead of going anywhere else. So you keep going there and build a habit, while spending money on other things. Same thing for those subway cards (which were removed because of fraud).
No business will ever offer you something that doesn't turn a profit. The system works great for them so they'll never need to add free gifts to make it work. Achievement points aren't about you, they're about Microsoft. Plus why would they give things to you when you are willing to pay for them?
The Xbox live points follow the same exact principle. Disguise money as something else so people don't really know how much they're paying. They're sold in numbers that make it impossible for you to buy just the number of points you need. So you're always spending more than you think. - supremesonic, on 11/16/2007, -2/+4Oh God no.
It would wreck the whole system, completely, in more ways than one. People would buy awful games for the easy points (Looking at you, King Kong) and developers would quickly catch on and make every achievement stupidly easy. The cries of "Hey let's play for achievements" online would increase, and they're already annoying. The whoring would be immense, and what was a simple addition for a bit of fun would just dominate as everyone hunts down the free stuff.
I could go on, but I think you get my point. Hopefully this will never happen. - cbrunet, on 11/16/2007, -2/+4Thanks for the support guys, I knew some people would see it that way, its just my comments didn't make much sense without referencing my blog post, and I didn't think people would want to see me repost the whole thing here.
- HolyChimp, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2I gained plenty of points in that time, but I don't live in the US so didn't get *****. The achievement icons as gamerpics would be a nice simple reward that everyone would get, so I'm all for it.
- inajeep, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2No. Not a good idea in the least. You think that people boosting their gaming score artificially or hiring kids to do it is stupid with nor real beneift. It would get expotenially worse.
Leave it a personal atta boy or bragging rights w/ friends. - HolyChimp, on 11/17/2007, -0/+2Yup, that challenge from last year that they did in the US only. How is that relevant to now? That was to get people to buy Old Spice. Not sure how the Old Spice people came up with that idea, but it got people some free stuff so who's complaining?
- Azimuth1, on 11/16/2007, -1/+3I think the opposite. If achievements gave actual rewards, developers would be required to bump up their difficulty.
This sounds like a good idea at first, but it's actually not. Glitched achievements would then cause actual problems, and cheating would be way more widespread than it is now. How would MS police that? It's far better to just keep achievements as they are. - inajeep, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2hehe dimming you now.
dim Rustymetal as Variant - inactive, on 11/16/2007, -2/+4The worst part is that they don't even realize that it's all a marketing scheme and will even argue that it isn't.
- grat2001, on 11/16/2007, -3/+5What? Could you give me a hypo-example?
- Rizzler, on 11/17/2007, -0/+1I don't think MS is too worried about "losing" money for small things like such. Have you seen the microsoft reward zone? Where employees of places that sell games get get a game for dirt cheap by answering a quiz on different topics? Personally, if I had a reason to get all the achievements, I'd do so, AND go out and get more games to fully delve into their achievements as well. All in all it'd be nice to have more of a reason to get a higher gamerscore, other than raising my e-peen and the such
- HolyChimp, on 11/17/2007, -0/+1That's the one upside of being in Europe where Microsoft does absolutely nothing to encourage deals with third parties. Sure, we have no video marketplace, but the ads are still just for newly released games or peripherals, which are slightly less annoying than some of the ads I've seen on my US account (Yes, I wanted the free Yaris game :D)
- DrZocktahedron, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1Thats 150 points.
Unless you want some lame ass background. - radiometric, on 11/18/2007, -0/+1If you play Halo3 on Live, how often have you heard people asking for help with an achievement before the match started? I've won many a match because some ***** were lining up and taking turns blasting each other with the spartan laser, then before the thing would go off, I'd run over and 'nade them all and beat down the laser cheater. Right now, it's slightly annoying when people cheat an achievement, but really just sad, as there is no reward for their achievements. If there was a reward, then people would be cheating left and right. Imagine wanting to rent a movie, needing a few more ms points, and just lining up some equally minded cheats to laser each other a few times, or run over with the mongoose, whatever. Rewards like gamerpics or themes would not inspire too much more cheating, but movies and games for free would.
- Christbait, on 11/17/2007, -0/+1I don't get why MS points cost so damn much.. it's not like it's costing them anything to produce points, they're intangible and in limitless supply!
Also, did anyone check out the new page on XBL marketplace for Live is 5ive? Check out one of the "Facts about XBL" (or something) and it says "Before XBL, no one thought anyone would pay for content beyond the price of the game" - Errrrm, like we had a CHOICE, Microsoft? That pissed me off SO BAD that they felt the need to GLOAT about paying for content after we just shelled out for a game. Gloating is only something Sony like to indulge in. - DrZocktahedron, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1I want records for everything I do.
It's interesting to find out you've played music in the media section for a total of 400 hours.
You should also get an achievement for being active in the dashboard or being on live for 500 hours.
I know everyone thinks that lame, but itd be an ahievement that you couldn't get by trying immediatly. - louiedog, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1Yeah, I really wish they would add some more. I'd only had my 360 about a month when it started, so all I was able to get was Contra. Earning some points would be nice.
- yournamehere, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1"causing more wear an tear" by playing games on the machine you bought to play games? What's the alternative? People buy the 360 and not play it? Above all else they need to stay competitive. It's why they shelled out the money to repair the problems and extended the warranty to cover possible future failures.
that's just a stupid argument.
If anything giving people an incentive to finish a game helps them. I know if I didn't finish a game I'm going to think twice about buying a new game of the same type the next time one comes around. - inactive, on 11/16/2007, -1/+2The next iteration of the PS3 firmware should have an achievements type system. Home give you the achievements in a 3d graphical environment. I dont think they were meant to make you buy one version over another. I think they are just there to show other people what you have done.
- AARGH2K, on 11/16/2007, -1/+2This is just greed talking.
- radiometric, on 11/18/2007, -0/+1pretty much
- radiometric, on 11/18/2007, -0/+1Except bandwidth and compensation to the artist, etc...
- radiometric, on 11/18/2007, -0/+1I believe your post was the ideal of what commenting should be. You didn't post the whole blog here, but left a link for those that wanted more more depth to your insight. Thanks for adding to the conversation.
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