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- agrabob, on 10/10/2007, -5/+37It's rather lame that console gamers are focusing on a die shrink to help with failing units. Usually this type of announcement is only watched by industry analysts and overclockers for PC CPU's.
- HerrEisenheim, on 10/10/2007, -6/+29I don't see why anyone cares. Don't expect 65nm Xbox 360s to run substantially cooler than their 90nm counterparts. The real advantage is a cost savings, for Microsoft, in terms of per unit costs.
The POWER architecture does not respond the same way that x86 and x86-64 do to a die shrink. This has been known for a while. Apple struggled with this for years. IBM would say, "Just wait for a die shrink. We'll have a PowerPC 970 chip you can put it a notebook, no problem." It never happened. Every die shrink only resulted in a few degrees heat/power savings.
Don't expect your Xbox 360s to run 20 degrees cooler. It isn't going to happen. Five if you are lucky. - Protoss, on 10/10/2007, -4/+19The heat generated by the CPU caused the GPU to separate, causing the RROD.
- superpatty, on 10/10/2007, -3/+18yeah, paying that extra $50 so that I could play it for two years before you seems like such a waste of money
/sarcasm - otatop, on 10/10/2007, -2/+14The main difference between HDMI 1.2 and 1.3 is that 1.3 can carry compressed Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams to be decoded by your receiver. If the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams are uncompressed, any type of HDMI can carry it. So yeah, what a huuuuuuuuge disadvantage there.
- Rev0lver, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14...Just as PCs are moving on to 45nm processor cores.
- jacksons98, on 10/10/2007, -9/+19Only the CPU not the GPU is going 65nm??? It's the GPU thats been causing the RROD.
From the article : "Also of note is that these new Falcon boards curiously do not include replacement 65nm ATI graphics processors,.." - nobiology, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11he just means the 360 has hdmi 1.2 instead of 1.3 i believe
- steffinb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10The extra heatsink helps
- AwesomeMonster, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9"Take a look at the epoxy surrounding the CPU and GPU which is intended to prevent the BGA connection from popping as the board warps. This has to be one of the funniest things I have ever seen."
This is about the nerdiest thing I have ever read. - totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8My point is, any new machine that Microsoft releases from now on will hopefully have better testing procedures/reliability than the original design they launched with, and that, as far as we know, are still being sold today. Maybe Microsoft has been tweaking the original design, who knows?
Getting the 65nm designed Xbox360s are at least a guarantee you are getting a machine designed/released at least one quarter after MS admitted there were issues. To me, thats worth waiting for. - bulgingbritches, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8With all the positives the 360 has going for it, the failure rate should be the last factor holding you back. With the new cooling scheme, die shrink, HDMI addition, $50 reduction, and 3yr warranty, there should be little worries. I simply play the ***** outta mine with the notion if it breaks, I'm going to get a better revision. At least I'm enjoying great games instead of worrying about the possibilities of failure.
- HerrEisenheim, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Sure it does, but that has nothing to do with 65nm. You can get the new heatsink now.
- Namarrgon, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Exactly. And the other differences, larger resolution and deep colour, aren't supported by any console either (both the PS3 and 360 GPUs only support 8 bits per channel framebuffers). So HDMI 1.3 is a marketing point that makes absolutely no difference to the final product.
- totorototoro, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Agreed in principle, but I think some of us care less for the details, and more for the fact that a new die shrink means hopefully a new motherboard design, or at least one thats been tested a bit more thoroughly before release. And a new motherboard design means hopefully they've addressed the Rings of Death problem more thoroughly than the bandaid fixes they've had to do with the original design.
If the original Xbox360 didn't have such reliability issues, console gamers would not be as interested in these new 65nm versions being released. I'm hoping at least some of that 1 Billion dollars MS took a hit on last quarter went towards the redesign. - SSCrow, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7yes.
- wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Because you have missed the _real_ point of this discussion (and Im blue in the fingers from re-typing it), the NM reduction is not the solutoin to the heat issue.
The HDMI enabled motherboard _ALREADY_ has the heat solution implemented. When they made the 3 year warranty announcment, they said:
"Having identified a number of factors which can cause general hardware failures...Microsoft has made improvements to the console and is enhancing its Xbox 360 warranty policy for existing and new customers."
Get it? Version 1.1 of the motherboard is the heat-solution, the nm reduction is irrelevant. - iofthestorm, on 10/10/2007, -6/+11Why are people digging him down when he brings the only shred of rationality to this entire comment page?
(When I dugg him up he was at 0). - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I've had my first gen since it came out, no problems here, almost 3 years later...
- Nick7, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8until i get a date as to when i can get a 360 with the 65 nm processor, this means nothing to me
- jfpersona1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4That sounds...boring.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6The article says that likely there are 65nm Xbox 360s in this world. But MS isn't putting them in the channel yet, instead they are clearing out the 90nm units they haven't managed to sell through yet due to low sales through this year so far.
Some day you'll be able to buy one with a 65nm CPU, but no one knows when yet. - fallenone05, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4there are far more gays outside! don't do it!
- Ajajadude, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Until it doesn't.
Remember, the 360 worked just fine...for a while, then we have this 3 year warranty for the RRoD - NSMike, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4The warranty is good for all 360's from the purchase date.
- Me1000, on 10/10/2007, -5/+8no it wont, and no it wont!
- jostheller, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You understand that thermal warping can be prevented with proper heat sinks and fans right? I do not have any first hands experience with the xbox360 PCB design, but from what I can gather it does sound that it not an issue with the logic design of the board but a problem with the thermal characteristics of the system. Basically don't fire the EE's but ask the ME's what Microsoft is paying them for.
- agrabob, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5it's not the motherboard design thats causing the failures from what I've read. It's poor thermal design.
And with a new, smaller manufacturing process, the chips will put out less heat. Thus MS could keep the same designs and XBOX's would have better survival rates. - bulgingbritches, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3BS. When watching movies, the drive goes into a slower speed mode.
- wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2If you get the HDMI Premium, then you got Motherboard Version 1.1 -- it includes the solution to the heat issues.
- Phocas, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Amen!! I have a revision with the new heat-sink and I have had ZERO problems. Ill keep playing while they sit on the sidelines.
- fallenone05, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4CAN YOU REPEAT THAT QUESTION? MY 360 IS ON!
- Nextrix, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4too late.
- fallenone05, on 10/10/2007, -1/+33 year on red rings of death only, don't forget that.
- afx1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3the 65nm version has a big sticker that says "buy me!". RTFA.
- DarkCovers, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5"I'm wondering if they actually fix the 360 or just fix it." Teehee :)
...sorry all 30 of your 360's RROD. - stillmitch, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Is the 3 year warranty good on a new 360 bought now? I don't want to wait a few months for the 65nm to be in stores.
- potterboy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I'd wait for the Xbox to reach that first.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4Well, any type of HDMI 1.2(a) or later can theoretically carry it.
Except that the Xbox 360 port isn't hooked up internally to allow this (confirmed by a MS person on AVS forum who worked on it). Instead, it just carries whatever goes out the optical port, which cannot carry Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, high bit rate DD or high bit rate DTS.
So yeah, huuuuuuuuge disadvantage.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=827835 - thedraft, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4I was also wary of purchasing an X360 because of the reliability issues. It had more than enough games that interested me, and while the price was still a little steep, the major roadblock for me was the RROD stuff (the loudness also didn't help.)
However, I just picked up a Premium bundle yesterday, as I'm reasonably happy with the changes to the very latest batch of units. For those unaware, MS has recently "upgraded" the Premium version with the HDMI port that the Elites already come with. Along with that addition, the new units have an extra heatsink which should help with (dare I say, prevent?) the RROD issue, and a quieter DVD drive.
The new Premiums are fairly recent, and a lot of stores don't have them yet. You can tell its a new one by looking at the box. In the field where it lists the box's contents (X360 system, wireless controller, 20gb HDD, etc. etc.) it will also have "HDMI Enabled."
FWIW, I don't think waiting for the 65nm revision makes much sense. The RROD issue is caused by the GPU, not the CPU. Obviously a smaller CPU will help with the overall system temp, but a system that's going to red ring is going to do it regardless of how big the CPU die is. The second heatsink should have a much more dramatic effect on system temps and reliability than a die shrink ever could.
PS- Bioshock is *****. - ZorboMan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+266% success rate.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+3When you return your broken 360, MS repairs it or replaces it. If they replace it, they replace it with a refurbished unit, which is a returned unit that has been repaired. So basically, you're getting a unit that was sent in 2-3 weeks earlier by someone else and has been repaired.
As such, you're likely never get a unit back that is one of the new ones, because MS has a near unlimited supply of the old ones being sent to them. So you're unlikely to send in your unit that doesn't have HDMI and get one with HDMI back. - cultist667, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1MS thanks you for throwing money at them at every turn buying multiplemachines. You are their ideal fanboi customer.
- CarzorStelatis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Sure the 360 has reliability problems. The recent MS warranty change has solved them. Just play it as often as you like and if it RRODs, you get it fixed/replaced.
If you really want a tip to avoid RRODs on the first place, store it horizontally. There are no studies showing whether vertical or horizontal is best (and yes, the console was 'designed' for both) but there's a socking great air intake on the right hand side which (if you have your 360 vertically) will be covered up by carpet/desk/whatever. Covered up air intakes are NOT good for heat problems :P - terrenceisdaman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4How do i tell the difference on the external packaging?
- WhereAmI, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1*Note: Not my words, it was in the link...
- cultist667, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You will play the price is right minigames at the store and the good xbox 360 is under one of the three boxes. Good luck!
- vawksel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1While I think you need to knock it the ***** off with the "it is *****" phrase, it sounds ridiculous, I do think BioShock is "fckin amazing".
It's gotten me back into FPS gaming. I was on hiatus from it all since finishing Half Life 2. Now Im wanting to try others, like CoD2 or Oblivion, but Why the ***** isn't Oblivion cheaper, its still $59.95!! - vawksel, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Who cares.
You play the same damn games. It not like this CPU is clocked higher. The only important ordeal is the Motherboard Version 1.1, which is HDMI enabled for those who give a ***** (not me), and more importantly has the new cooling solution to prevent the red ring of fire. - staticneuron, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You say one
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134144-pg,1/article.html
reports say multiple. but the more telling sign is when you go to various xbox 360 fan sites and look at the failure threads. The ratio was pretty high on the fan sites as well. I think MS was forced into extending the warranty and if the estimates were as low as the claim why wouldn't they release the numbers? -
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