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- sennmen, on 10/12/2007, -79/+150If you think about it, from an atheist standpoint, it is somewhat ironic that there are still people believing in a God today. Guess fear and more importantly, fear of the unknown can be a powerful driving factor.
- Brewdaddy, on 10/12/2007, -63/+130What's so ironic? Fear isn't the sole reason or even the biggest factor in most people's faiths.
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -29/+80No, fear of a finite lifespan. The ONE thing all religions do is provide people with something to do after they die. In real life, you die permanently and your body rots, and that's all that happens. The primary purpose of religion is to divert people from this unpleasant truth.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -20/+66"My imaginary friend can beat your imaginary friend."
Just watch the theocons here on Digg positively drooling over the idea of a religious war with islam.
To me such a war is undesirable because it kills people for no good reason at all, but to theocons it's a chance to prove how much they love their imaginary friend Jesus, how WRONG the muslims are in believing in their imaginary friend, and of course - beating islam would mean more friends for their imaginary friend Jesus. They're as nutty as the jihadists, but neither side can see their own nuttiness.
I have on occasion discussed with theists and agnostics whether religion is, in toto, a negative or a positive force in society. They hold that it on the whole is positive, as it gives people comfort in times of need, and also performs some charity functions. I don't deny that; it is self-evidently true.
I just feel that the negative aspects inseparate from religion, such as bigotry and intolerance, as well as attempts at forcing imaginary-friend-morals on the rest of the population, tips the scales into a net negative. - nreynolds, on 10/12/2007, -4/+41People do more harm than good. Bad people just use religion as justification. If there was no religion, we would still have wars, we would still have death, people would just have to find a different excuse.
- NuRvDamage, on 10/12/2007, -27/+63I would disagree I believe that fear of the unknown, and the security of rules and knowing ones ultimate fate are the driving force in most people's faith. I am no fan of organized religion, it's main purpose is to control the populous, yet I do believe in faith and having faith. I believe people just need to be more "spiritual" and less religious; we shouldn't have to fight about who's god is the right god, because they are all incorrect and imperfect.
FYI: Would identify as an atheist, only in that I do not subscribe my ideals to any religion. - Pigeon, on 10/12/2007, -15/+50I completly agree with you. I would be fine with religion, if it didn't kill people, if it didn't make people bigots, and most of all, IF IT DIDNT TRY TO TO GET LAWS PASSED THAT ARE BASED ON THEIR RELIGION AND EFFECT ME!
I mean, how do gay people effect your life in anyway at all? They don't. But because it is a 'sin' to Christians, there is the whole anti-gay movement.
I've seen and met people, who for them, religion has helped improve their lives. For some people it does. I have no problem with this. However, I have _zero_ respect in religous leaders. They are corrupt, stupid and hypocrites. Look at Ted Haggard, having drugfueled sex sessions with a male hooker? Oh wait, the 'alcohol problem' made him do it...
I'm not even American, but I'm disgusted at how the Republicans use religion as a tool for votes and the basis of stupid laws. What happened to the seperation of church and state? Some even say that America was 'founded' Christian.
Some quotes:
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814
That man had sense. If America still had leaders like that, it would be a great country in this age. Alas, it is controlled by religion, greed and fools.*
* I'm not talking about the American public (well not all of them), I'm talking about the governement. - freff, on 10/12/2007, -7/+41Outside of you predictable statistics joke, I have no idea what you are trying to say. A poll conducted in the UK isn't valid? The opinion of the people living in the Middle East is more likely to have an effect on someone's views of religion? Less? You've completely lost me with your logic.
- mrhaines, on 10/12/2007, -8/+41"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence -- as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."
- Albert Einstein - siszam, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33Hating people because of their religion does more harm than good. Ask the Jews.
- maiku00, on 10/12/2007, -23/+45Watch "The Root of all Evil" by Dawkins, which involves this subject. It is very good.
The root of all Evil? Is a television documentary, written and presented by Richard Dawkins, in which he argues that the world would be better off without religion. The documentary was first broadcast in January 2006, in the form of two 45 minute episodes on Channel 4 in the UK. Dawkins has said that the title "The Root of All Evil?" was not his preferred choice, but that Channel 4 had insisted on it to create controversy. His sole concession from the producers on the title was the addition of the question mark. Dawkins has stated that the notion of anything being the root of all evil is ridiculous. Dawkins' book The God Delusion, released in September 2006, goes on to examine the topics raised in the documentary in greater detail -wikipedia
part 1, "the god delusion": http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6169720917221820689&q=root+evil&hl=en
part 2, "the virus of faith": http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5752208690443739173&q=root+evil&hl=en - eddyc, on 10/12/2007, -9/+29I dont fear either, they're both equally as superstitious.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -32/+52Actually fear is a huge factor for religious types. It generally boils down to mortality..it's something we as humans have a hard time accepting. Religion covers this.
- wstrucke, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23@NuRvDamage
"FYI: Would identify as an atheist, only in that I do not subscribe my ideals to any religion."
That would make you an agnostic. I am an athiest in that I do not believe in a 'divine being' or 'higher power' in any sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athiest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism - Optimus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21>>"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence -- as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
- Albert Einstein - AnteChronos, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20"Funny how you people fear Christianity and not islam."
I fear neither. However, Muslims aren't attempting to pass laws in my country (the US) to disallow people from marrying just because they're the same sex. Muslims aren't opening "cspreading misinformation orreationist museums" that depict humans and dinosaurs living together. Hell, if I were to get mugged tomorrow, there's a good possibility that the mugger would identify as Christian -- he wouldn't be a *good* Christian, but he'd still fully believe that the bible is true and that Jspreading misinformation oresus died for his sins . . . such a mugging me.
So basically, Christians and Christianity have more of a negative impact on my life than Muslims and Islam. - AnteChronos, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@brindon
"That emptiness inside...
....
why not figure out the real reason you're so empty?"
I always get a kick out of Christians assuming that someone who doesn't believe in their particular mythology must feel "empty". Do Christians actually feel empty without religion? I find that to be a bit bizarre, to be honest. I mean, yeah, if you grew up with religion, then you'd probably feel a sense of loss without it, just like someone who grows up believing in Santa Claus feels the loss a bit when they find out it's all fake. But, for someone who never believed in the first place, I feel about as empty as you do for not believing in Thor. That is to say, not at all. - CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19"Survey says" should be at the beginning of this title.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The term "non religious" in the UK poll means the same thing as in US data. Most people identify themselves as Christians when in fact they do not attend Church and may celebrate Christmas and go to Church perhaps once or twice a year. In the US, the estimated "Non-religious" population is almost half the population despite US data saying that we have over 80% Christians.
- Pigeon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Source?
Take the two thousand years of history and I'm sure that religion will pass whatever number you give. The Crusades, Jihads, Witch Hunting, Protestant VS Catholic, Sunni VS *****, The 'Conversion' of Native Americans to Christianity, The dozens of wars that have take place inside of countries such as France, Spain, England etc. over religion. The list goes on.
Sure, there would still be wars and death without religion, but that's life I'm afraid. But there would be less without people that actually believe they will get 70 virgins in heaven, or 'God told them to do it', or 'They are a different religion to us so we are going to kill them' after killing innocent people. - Fitzwarren, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"Hitler was an atheist"
Actually he has a Catholic and stated it many times (including in Mein Kampf). Although I can understand Christians not wanting him to be one of theirs, but I am afraid he was. Even if you insist he was an atheist and was lying about his personal beliefs I'm afraid you are STILL stuck with the vast majority of his officers and his army being Christians and having no problem carrying out his genocidal orders. Indeed the Catholic church at the time refused to decry his actions much to embarrassment of modern day theologians. - ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17From an atheist standpoint, of course religion wouldn't make sense to you. That's like saying, "From a fish's standpoint, this whole nitrogen-rich nonsense seems pointless." Different strokes for different folks.
And it's funny how people think all religions are driven by a fear of death when Judaism has no concept of hell. Why is it that so many people feel an urge to generalize in order to get their points across? Is it because their points are generally spurious and not actually based on the facts? - MasterFunk, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17Yeah we should just outlaw it.
/sarcasm
(Also waits to be dugg down) - mrhaines, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Thats the weirdest thing I heard today.
- dvpdziyn, on 10/12/2007, -20/+29It is because of religions, whether modern or ancient, that we have hospitals, the study of medicine, the scientific method, physical laws, a calendar, and a thousand other intellectual advances - because people seek truth. In seeking truth, people come upon answers to things both physical and metaphysical. The discovery of a physical truth has no bearing on the metaphysical, and vice versa, but the seeking of both has its roots in religion, in a belief that the truth is available, whatever its nature might be.
The question is not whether or not religion is good or bad, it's whether the actions of some religious people or peoples are good or bad or whether certain religions (and their leaders) encourage good or bad actions. Ultimately, you will fail to disprove any faith, and you will fail to prove that faith is bad. You can only do what many people of faith have always done, seek the truth, for there still is such a thing. - CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Saying something is fact based on a poll? I thought atheist at least tried to be logical.
- clearzen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Why is the Guardian evil? Because they are reporting a study that you do not like? I really don't understand.
- Optimus, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16>>And it's funny how people think all religions are driven by a fear of death when Judaism has no concept of hell.
You don't get it. It's not the fear of hell that turns people religious, it's the fear of the nothingness that may come after death. Religion gives them comfort in that they may live on forever. - Niten, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10The Soviet party had its own brand of religious fanaticism - it merely lacked the more recognizable, supernatural elements that we associate with most mainstream religions (with the possible exceptions of Buddhism or Confucianism).
Anyway, don't get your panties in a knot; nobody's advocating a ban on religion. I'm an atheist and I couldn't care less what you believe, as long as the followers of your particular religion don't start to interfere with my life and my government on account of their dogma. Unfortunately, one of the common survival traits of these amalgams of memes that we call our major monotheistic religions, is that they typically require their followers to evangelize into all aspects of society. - pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8So this country was founded in Christianity?
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
- James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning. And ever since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality, is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your eyes and hand, and fly into your face and eyes."
- John Adams, letter to John Taylor
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."
- Benjamin Franklin
Now, if those guys founded a country, I'd move there! - 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8the Native American Holocaust was much larger than WW2
both equally horrific - dvpdziyn, on 10/12/2007, -10/+17While fear is a factor for many people of faith, it is not for a factor for most Christians I know - at least, not a fear of hell, or damnation. True disciples of Christ fear the absence of God, not the presence of Him, in their lives.
- Zzone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Your holiday is false and tattered with paganistic rituals that should be banned under your faith's dogma.
Your lord and savior wasn't even born in december. - edisciple, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7No wonder the article is about England or Britian or UK or more in general Europe where religion is "dead" except Islam. Could you say anything else about a religion that gives a "nod" to violence. But they did reference the Church of England but we all know (or may you didn't) that Christianity has long departed from Europe except for a few mission minded soles. Christian tradition remains but true faith has left. And don't generalize or single out Christianity my friends as the culprit. It is not!!!
- mrhaines, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Jesus wasn't born in December, Constantine made Christmas take place in December to replace a former Roman holiday. The fact that we celebrate christmas in December is now just a cultural thing. It doesn't really matter what day Christmas is celebrated on, its just a time to reflect on something that is important to a lot of people.
- Peeps, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Self righteous misinformation is the tool of the self righteous misinformed.
- ICSU, on 10/12/2007, -22/+28Brainwashing when you are a kid, fear of death when you are elderly.
- qazxsw, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9What nonsense.
People generally do more good than harm with or without religion.
But religion, being based outside of normal experience, is a great excuse for acting outside of normal reason. - digitalArtform, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I wish the US had these kinds of poll numbers
- scilec, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I wish more people would just live and let live.
I'm not a religious person but I think that each of us need to determine what works best for ourselves without trying to pass too much judgment on those who choose a different path. In my opinion, religious intolerance is an extremely negative force in the world; regardless of whether it's perpetrated by a religious zealot or an atheist who things that religious people are ignorant, insecure, stupid, or whatever. - SkeletaLlama, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people. Take away religion, they'll still kill each other. Take away guns, they'll find a new way to kill. People kill. There are a million excuses they use for doing it, but it all boils down to a homicidal impulse in primates. We've even observed the same impulses at work in chimps, our closest relatives. We've even observed chimps in the wild that deliberately hunt and murder there own kind without provocation. It isn't religion that's killing people, it's us.
- Pigeon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Another thing that gets me is the contradictions. There are hundreds of religions, sure some are based around the same 'ideas', but most are blatantly contradicting of others.
Are the billions of Christians right? Or the billions of Muslims? Or the millions of Hindus? Or were the Romans right? Or were the Indians right? Or were the Egyptians right?
They can't all be correct, yet many say _theirs_ is the true religion. This to me, in itself, makes religion foolish to believe in. If you believe one religion, you are saying billions of other people are wrong. There is no proof for any of them. - ulyssesyt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7oh, what *****.
religion is just one justification among many for deviant human behavior.
what caused the extreme disaster of America's "war" on Iraq for example?
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1572580,00.html?cnn=yes
also, a bunch of extremists claiming they're Muslims doesn't make them Muslim--it just makes them extremists. this is the fundamental flaw that non-thinking people make--that calling yourself something makes it true.
folks, wise up. stop searching for an ideology to blame for your world's ills, and start doing something to make a difference.
(running around posting hate mail about how religion is causing the world's ills isn't doing anything about the world's problems.) - Pigeon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8And its religion that 'gathers' these stupid people together and thats when stupid people become dangerous, when they are many.
- shadowsword232, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I've had the same discussion. If you consider the dark ages, the crusades, the hundred years war, the oppression of scientific theories (see evolution and Galileo), and all religious wars / wars that use religion as their justification it quickly builds up a far larger negative impact than Charity or hope have produced.
- anarkoid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I suggest you go back to your science manuals...because these experiment prove nothing of the sort
- ulyssesyt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@Whitelce89,
dugg up for posting the inevitable Nazi reference that appears on every Digg post. - qazxsw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Regardless of what anyone likes to think 76% of Brits are not practising Christians.
Most Brits think so little about these things that they don't know what to put on forms, "Christian" is the default response.
Survey - "are you a religious person?"
63% say No because they don't really think about any god much.
Census - "are you Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Agnostic, Atheist, etc ?"
76% say Christian as it looks familiar whereas the others look foreign and strange. - xlocust, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Islam is not the dominant religion in in the America. People are more critical of a religion that can actually affect how their lives. That is not to say that radical Islam isn't as ***** up (or even more ***** up) as radical Christianity. It is just that Islam holds little influence in our society and will probably never hold any significant influence in our society
- starmanjones, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10>Funny how you people fear Christianity and not islam.
i don't see any difference between them... they both cause more harm than good. absolute power corrupts absolutely. even when its imaginary. -
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