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Putin Issues Ultimatum, Georgia Stands Alone
blog.wired.com — Russian troops have already routed Georgian forces in the breakaway region South Ossetia. Now, Moscow has seized Georgia's military base at Senaki. The Russians have issued an ultimatum to Georgia's military to surrender in and around the pro-Russian separatist enclave of Abkhazia, the New York Times reports.
jaybol- 971 diggs
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- x0epyon0x, on 08/12/2008, -37/+59When will this stop, when Russia has re-consumed all of Georgia? This is no longer about retaliating for Georgian strikes on South Ossetia, this is about Russia retaking its old territory.
- chicofaraby, on 08/12/2008, -21/+37"This is no longer about retaliating for Georgian strikes on South Ossetia"
It never was. This is eerily reminiscent of Czechoslovakia in the 1930s.- ideameansfly, on 08/12/2008, -2/+24Oh yeah, I remember that.
- LeeSoong, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1That's what Tsar said !
- stutimandal, on 08/12/2008, -6/+15I don't think Russia did the wrong thing by giving a taste of "its own medicine" to Georgia. Now Georgia will remember it as a historical lesson for 100 years and not try to interfere with Russians.
- h3lx, on 08/12/2008, -11/+10Georigia is going to remember Russian aggression and being hung out to dry by the US, if anything, it's a hundred more years of hate, resentment, and desperate people driven to desperate actions... yeah, they really thought this thing through.
- Gustomucho, on 08/12/2008, -7/+23H3LX
You really want the West to go to war vs Russia for a stupid president that provoked Russia by attacking an independant state?
Hang the prez of Georgia. Russia is 100% right here, this is the kind of justice I am in favor. I hate seeing people suffer but the president of Georgia is a dumb ***** for the genocide in S. Ossetia. - Dozernotz, on 08/12/2008, -5/+2I have a hard time believing the current situation exists because no one thought it through. At the moment I'm leaning more toward the "hung out to dry" theory.
Maybe Putin and Bush made a deal and Georgia got shafted? Maybe "back-channeled" would be a more diplomatic way to put it. Russia gets territory, US gets as yet undetermined pipeline access, Georgia gets some mixed messages about how much support it would receive if it took military action?
It is impossible to say what promises may have been made or broken but I certainly can't imagine Georgia's plan was to go it alone against Russia. - Gustomucho, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5Dozer...
The American have everything to lose by giving the Georgian state to Russia. America is training military, giving help, money, supporting Georgia. America already have access to the the pipeline, they wouldn't if Russia was in control... - h3lx, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2It's quite possible the little provocation by the Georgian Pres was intentional to trigger a Russian Response in which case, erring on the side of caution, documenting the atrocities and sending that information back to Nato would be better course for action, I've yet to see anything aside from here-say about genocide, most outlets are referring to it as simply civilian casualties. Either way, if he ordered the deaths of 1500 people for no other reason than them being Russians, he deserves to die, Georgia should retain every square inch of it's land and Russia should be making every effort to keep a semblance of normalcy during the occupation. Now if Georgia went into Russia and pulled some *****, by all means, Russia would have every right to level the place. But as it is, there was a brief conflict, some folks got killed, an entire russian armored division came in with air support and began a campaign to the capitol. At no point did anyone mention the Georgians were crossing the border. Russian is wrong.
- DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -5/+2Lesson 1) Don't kill Russians and their allays.
Lesson 2) Don't play with Russia if you don't have a very good reason (or very good "plan b").
Lesson 3) Russia is not the one who starting conflicts, but always the one who finishing them!
If you smashing a mosquito into dust, which "was only biting you!" can we call this overreaction?
Georgia will be ok, if they will stop militarization and neighbours' provokation - masamunecyrus, on 08/13/2008, -0/+3People need to stop expressing their opinions without realize what the hell South Ossetia and Abkhazia really are. Yes, Georgia was in the wrong by attacking South Ossetia suddenly, and Russia was in the wrong for launching a full-scale war against Georgia. But nobody ever mentions the funding and support Russia gives to South Ossetian and Abkhazian rebel groups. Without Russia, it's very likely that those two regions not only wouldn't be autonomous, but perhaps not even exist, anymore. If you want to talk about countries with state-sponsored terrorism, what Russia has done to Georgia is state-sponsor Abkhazian and South Ossetian terrorism against Georgia.
- DigzDogg, on 08/13/2008, -2/+0>South Ossetian terrorism against Georgia.
before posing anything like that crap, spend a minute go in google and try to find any evidence of your words..
"south osstian terrorism" - 1 link. to _your_ post in Digg
No results found for "Abkhazian terrorism".
and the winner is
"georgian terrorism" - 670 links
Are you blind or what?! - Dozernotz, on 08/13/2008, -0/+0@Gustomucho
I didn't realize that the US already had access to the pipeline but that makes sense. In that case you are right about the US having more to lose than to gain if Russia annexes Georgia.
But my question then would be why Georgia initiated action in the first place? Did they not anticipate the Russian response? Were the South Ossetian seperatists/provocateurs/whatever that much of a threat to Georgia itself? - LeeSoong, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1H3LX -
The USA just sells you the weapons, Uncle Sam never says to put them to use.
- Tyrghast, on 08/12/2008, -4/+28We did it in Iraq and no one stopped us. Don't expect the UN to have grown a pair since then.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3The UN is hampered because that "pair" belongs to the US and Seven other nations with veto powers. If it were on a majority vote - then it would matter more.
However, there is no other agency in the world to help settle disputes -- so it is better than the "nothing" the Conservatives offer us. - jambox, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2That's part of the reason the Russians went in so hard - they have been pissed with us since Iraq. Look at the Litvinenko case and the Tupolevs flying long range patrols in northern Europe.
- kuzotz, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1pretty much America is taking it's medicine. Now we see how it feels when a more powerful country rolls in with the tanks and invades a country not really capable of defending itself. And then not being able to do anything about it. I hope us Americans see this, and stop supporting politicians that want war all the damn time!
- VitriolAndAngst, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3The UN is hampered because that "pair" belongs to the US and Seven other nations with veto powers. If it were on a majority vote - then it would matter more.
- Alawn, on 08/12/2008, -12/+7Russia is 100% right here and Georgia is 100% wrong here
- KnightWhoSaysNi, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2No, Georgia is 100% wrong, but Russia is certainly not 100% right.
Russia was right to retaliate, but this is way too much.
- KnightWhoSaysNi, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2No, Georgia is 100% wrong, but Russia is certainly not 100% right.
- BESTenemy, on 08/12/2008, -4/+6Mission Accomplished - the proper way.
- insomniac8400, on 08/12/2008, -3/+9http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
Read up on it. South Ossetia, is it's own country. The soviet union got them all mixed up with Georgia. When that fell, South Ossetia should have became independent, not part of Georgia.- gyrfalcon, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3South Ossetia is a country that's not recognized by most of the world as a country, including Russia.
- Nudar, on 08/13/2008, -0/+2Well then why doesn't Russia give independence to North Ossetia and let the two Ossetias united to form a single country?
- insomniac8400, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Russia isn't killing the people of North Ossetia so they probably want to stay as Russia. When North Ossetia has a vote of their people and votes to separate, then Russia can give them up. But I doubt that country has a problem with being part of such a big country like Russia. People in South Ossetia carry Russian passports because Georgia will not give them any. They probably like Russia. But they aren't asking to be a part of Russia, they had a vote to become their own country. And they should be their own country. We can't let Georgia attack them into submission just because they sent troops to help US in iraq.
- browntiger, on 08/12/2008, -0/+13Two issues with this story:
1) It is obviously dated now that russia stopped offenses.
2) Russia would not take any prisoners, it was telling georgians leave battlefields and go where they came from... Did you noticed that there are no POVs. - sanman, on 08/12/2008, -8/+6Georgia is another wanna-be Israel. They think by kissing Washington's ass and equating their survival with America's, that they can get a lock on unquestioning US support for themselves.
Look at the economy! Look at the mounting job losses and the looming financial crisis! Look at the continuous erosion of financial integrity! Look at the ballooning deficit and national debt! Who's going to pay for yet another foreign dependent and their warmongering ways??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mCCYLC-4xA
Behold!
The iRack!
The iRan!
and for you latex-lovers, the iCauc!- jambox, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6Gibberish.
- brundlefly76, on 08/12/2008, -2/+13It is amazing how hard everyone is being on Russia here - I think the fact that Georgia is a US ally is clouding everyone's judgment.
South Ossetia was a pro-Russian area which Georgia fired upon without warning and killed over 1200 civilians (if anyone has revised figures let me know)!
I don't support what Georgia did and I don't blame Russians for responding with overwhelming and decisive military action to a very serious security threat.
If you will remember correctly, the US was attacked on 9/11/01, and although about 4x as many people were killed, we hauled our entire war machine into Afghanistan for 7 years and occupied the entire country - and in general it was considered an appropriate response.
Russia retaliated to Georgia for a few days to cripple its military. By contrast, Russia slapped Georgia on the wrist.- jambox, on 08/12/2008, -5/+2Yeah you've forgotten some stuff there:
1) Russia has been paying money and giving support to rebels in both Abkhazia and Ossetia for years to destabilise the region. The rebels have increasingly attacked Georgian villagers. This is could be seen as a 5th column strategy to provoke the Georgians and then swiftly counterattack in order to do a land-grab.
2) Georgia is a democracy while Afghanistan was run by tribal religious lunatics.
3) Attacking an ally of a great power is just risky because it might damage world relations or even provoke a broader war. - thecoolestguy, on 08/12/2008, -0/+5@jambox
1) The vast majority of S. Ossetians want to be part of Russia
2) The area has been defacto independent since 1993
3) The US has been sending aid to Georgia
4) Being a democracy has no relevance when Georgia kills 1200 S. Ossetians. - hifidelity1, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1as many as 1500
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_cont ... - kuzotz, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1The thing about Russia and the USA. Is that they aren't enemies. I think too many Americans have been brain washed during the cold war to realize that the cold war is over with. The world is much different now. We are rivals, but when it comes to keeping the status quo you better believe that the USA would let Russia do what it is doing now. So right now America and Russia are pretty much on mutual grounds here in terms of relations. This will soon be ignored, and forgotten and the world will keep spinning. Because Russia does not want war with America and vice versa. Even if the neoconservatives want to go against this. There are too many politicians in the US and too many people who are savy in system level analysis to let the neocons take this ***** over and provoke war with the Russians.
- jambox, on 08/12/2008, -5/+2Yeah you've forgotten some stuff there:
- VitriolAndAngst, on 08/12/2008, -2/+8I'd go with Gorbachev's assessment on this. He at least has been an honest broker with Russia and the USA for many years now, and has stayed out of taking sides and the opportunism we have seen from so many pundits.
He is upset that the US was sending material aid and helping transport troops, as well as selling equipment to provoke the situation. So I'm going to have to side with Russia on this issue, because it looks like another "created controversy" in an oil rich nation. Seems like our NeoCons are "war shopping" -- and I say this after never even thinking they'd be involved. It's not like I see them around every corner like a shadow -- they are around every corner and under every rock.
read here; http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/gorbachev-slams-u ...
http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?c ...- personalj, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Where else would Georgia buy some of the best, modern military equipment in the world from? France?
- ZenMojo, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1War's over, everyone go back to your xkcd and Ron Paul posts.
- hifidelity1, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Georgia is the aggressor here. unprovoked genocide kills 1500
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_cont ... - c0s1ne, on 08/14/2008, -0/+0Dude, you are morAn: go read some historic book in a library (and check this word in vocabulary, which is.... ah, well your case is helpless)...
- chicofaraby, on 08/12/2008, -21/+37"This is no longer about retaliating for Georgian strikes on South Ossetia"
- hansk, on 08/12/2008, -29/+112What Russia is doing is not surprising. This is just the excuse they needed to move in.
Georgia made a critical mistake by moving into Ossetia. All they did was make the regional bully upset and give it an excuse to take it down.
Russia never has and never will pursue military conflict for humanitarian purposes. Look at World War 2, and see how well the Ukraine, Poland, Hungry and Czechoslovakia (among many others) 'liberation' from the Nazis went.
The US is weakened economically and militarily due to the Bush regime, and Russia has took this opportunity to claw back what it lost during the late 80s.
Best case scenario Russia annihilates Georgian military and economic infrastructure and leaves, like what Israel did to Lebanon. Worst case, Russia occupies and refuses to leave, like the US in Iraq. If I were the Georgian leader I would surrender Ossetia right away, save as much military hardware and lives you can, and focus on protecting whats left of your country.
/my 2 cents- chaserm, on 08/12/2008, -39/+12Georgia is a Neocon zionist pawn and I'm happy Russia is putting them in there place.
- NoCt1, on 08/12/2008, -3/+19Way to make claims with no proof.
I saw Chaserm giving head to people behind a dumpster to just have something warm in their stomach.
See I can do it to! Pics upon request..... - djoobacca, on 08/12/2008, -5/+5Yeah that's true
- NoCt1, on 08/12/2008, -3/+19Way to make claims with no proof.
- dha07030, on 08/12/2008, -5/+5that's more like 4 cents.
- rxbudian, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2I think it's 3 cents... there's 3 paragraphs there.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -12/+7The thing is, Georgia has been trying to surrender S. Ossetia. They have pulled out of the entire breakaway provinces and have even pulled out of cities within actual parts of Georgia. Russia doesn't listen. Russia is hellbent on destruction and nationalistic gains. Russia has become a great threat to the free world once again. Its time to bulk up our forces in the region and rebuild the old alliances. It was silly to really think the cold war wouldn't come back, especially now that resources are starting to run out.
- zenerdiode, on 08/12/2008, -1/+7That's not true. The brokered cease-fire that was sent to Russia demanded Russia pull out of Ossetia.
I'm not supporting either side, cause this is a complex issue...I'm just saying... - Gustomucho, on 08/12/2008, -1/+9Too late, it bite Russia and Russia is angry.
Maybe Russia was waiting for a reason to invade Georgia, but it was stupid of Georgia to commit a genocide in S. Ossetia... Gave Russia all the reason they needed to annihilate Georgia in my book.
The prez needs to retire ASAP.
- zenerdiode, on 08/12/2008, -1/+7That's not true. The brokered cease-fire that was sent to Russia demanded Russia pull out of Ossetia.
- SuperVepr308, on 08/12/2008, -4/+10Man, you need to read a history book or talk to someone who was in Lebanon at the time. Then you wouldn't say inane things such as, "Best case scenario Russia annihilates Georgian military and economic infrastructure and leaves, like what Israel did to Lebanon". I have done both and you are dead wrong.
- hansk, on 08/15/2008, -0/+1you read a history book and talked to someone who was in lebanon?
OMFG ME TOO!!! wow!
- hansk, on 08/15/2008, -0/+1you read a history book and talked to someone who was in lebanon?
- cookingboy, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4Georgia...they really picked the wrong kid to bully this time....
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -3/+20Hey, Russophobic idiot boy. It wasn't "Russia" during WW2. It was the USSR, which coincidentally, at the time, was ruled by a brutal dictator, who just happened to be Georgian, named Joseph "Stalin" Dzhugashvilli. His most brutal cohort was another Georgian, named Lavrentiy Beria. Those ***** have killed more Russians than all the other nationalities combined. So, please don't speak about Russia's humanitarian record and then bring Stalinist USSR as an example.
- medve001, on 08/13/2008, -0/+4BTW, Lavrentiy Beria was NKBD/KGB chief and yes he was georgian as well.
- DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -4/+3>Look at World War 2, and see how well the Ukraine, Poland, Hungry and Czechoslovakia (among many others) >'liberation' from the Nazis went.
So you saying here that Soviets shouldn't liberate Eastern Europe from Nazi and get just to USSR border and a sigh a peace treaty with Hitler? Let's give Hitler another chance! Or may be Soviets should not fight at all, just surrender and give all resources to Nazi war machine?
Got more bright ideas? Bring 'em on! - Homerr, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1It's all about Georgia's bid to join NATO. Russia is feeling surrounded.
- drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Pretty much. Russian paranoia has been paramount for the better part of a millenia. Successive waves of barbarians, mongul domination, Napolean and Hitler invasions... pretty much has scarred the Russian pysche in needing "buffer states". Toss in people liking a firm hand (Putin, Stalin, Kruchev, Lenin, etc), and you've got a ready and willing populace, who, even tho brutalized for years, still want to fly the red flag.
- ArtDzot, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1NATO is a military alliance. It is not economic alliance. It is not social union. Military! Military alliances will never lead to peace because they are MILITARY.
- chaserm, on 08/12/2008, -39/+12Georgia is a Neocon zionist pawn and I'm happy Russia is putting them in there place.
- ApMasterSite, on 08/12/2008, -31/+79I told you guys from the start that Russia has been planning this and is doing this to destroy Georgia.
No superpower in the world can deploy 1500 Tanks and over 10,000 Armed personnel within 24-48 Hours unless they had been planning the attack and preping for it for some time already. To bring that much troops from various parts of Russia will take time but Russians responded with that much force when Georgia tried to deal with the rebel issues WITHIN Georgian border on the pretext of humanitarian aid and protection.
Now Russians are bombing all over Georgia, attacking from all sides, blockading Georgian ports and refusing to allow food, medicine and basic necessities into Georgia.
Clearly Russia has alternate motives. Now Russia wants Georgia to get its garrison out of the northern territories it controls in an effort to take chunks of land from Georgia and reintrigate it into Russia.
Watch what is going to happen. Russia will simply hand out its passports to any people remaining in that land and claim they are now "Russian citizens" so the Russian troops will stay in those lands are "peacekeepers" permanently....- mcla007, on 08/12/2008, -12/+56A simpler explanation could be that Russian intelligence was expecting Saakashvili's attack on South Ossetia and was prepared to take advantage of it. Now that they've got an opportunity they are making the best of it in geopolitical terms. Saakashvili could have saved his country lot of grief by not perpetrating a genocide on Ossetians. Now Russia holds the moral high ground and can get away with a great deal of unnecessary violence. Georgians can thank their able leader for his criminal stupidity.
- AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -17/+9Russia doesn't have a moral leg to stand on.
Calling bombing civilian areas in order to reinvade a country "peacekeeping", doesn't actually make it peacekeeping.
This is about oil for Russia.
The Georgian conflict didn't involve them. South Ossetia's population is about 70k. It's not about anything else than oil.
Plus I don't think Georgians actually fear Russia. They suck:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/08/06/russia. ... - mickstephenson, on 08/12/2008, -12/+4Wrong, Rupert Murdoch orchestrated it all. Damn Murdoch.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -14/+6An even simpler explanation could be that Russian special forces pretended to be S. Ossetian rebels, or persuaded the actual rebels somehow, into firing on the Georgian border guards and launching a mortar attack into Georgia. This is what sparked the entire conflict. Georgia was responding to attacks on its own territory from within S. Ossetia, they were acting in self-defense. Of course, many people buy the Russian propaganda (including yourself) that Georgia magically started killing "Russian citizens" for no reason at all and the red knight had to come in and save the day. Sure, Georgia overreacted much as Israel overreacted in the Lebanon conflict, but both instances were a case of self defense. Why on earth would Georgia honestly attack S. Ossetia for no reason at all when they know Russia would respond in force. The Russian shot down a Georgian drown a week or two before this conflict even began!!!!! The only criminals in this is the Russians, who by the way are conducting genocide against Georgian citizens in retaliation. But then again, Russia has a well known history of committing acts of genocide.
- FTWmovin2canada, on 08/12/2008, -0/+13...and the real answer is that they've been having drone wars for months so both sides saw it coming. It's just nobody was paying attention then.
- Caffeinate, on 08/12/2008, -5/+9Why on earth would Georgia honestly attack S. Ossetia for no reason at all?
To provoke their US allies into saving the day and to garner sympathy from the rest of the world in the wake of a huge economic crisis. Georgia was not right in this. This has been brewing for several years - S. Ossetia and Abkhazia wanted to break away from Georgia.
Most of the world sees through this, and so do many Americans. We don't have even close to all of the facts, but if you want to scream propaganda, my money is on Georgia putting out the propaganda.
Why? The fake photos on Reuters after the bombing. The same Georgian soldier appears in nearly every picture, one mourner appears wearing two different sets of clothes, the same corpse appears different places...and all of them are spotless in a city reduced to ruins. No dust? The corpse has clean hair but was lying face up a few minutes ago in the other picture?
Please.
- AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -17/+9Russia doesn't have a moral leg to stand on.
- eryximachus, on 08/12/2008, -2/+16This has been a hotspot for 15 years. There has been nearly constant warfare in Chechnya right near this part of the world.
I would venture to say most of the Russian military was within a 48-hour drive of Georgia.
So, you're wrong about the complexity of mobilizing a force of that size. As for Russia's intentions, I don't have an opinion.- IronDuke83, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2Most of the Russian military? Yeah right. Enough to pacify Georgia sure, but more than that I doubt was moved for lack of need.
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4Exactly. You got it. Most of Russia's elite professional troops were in very close proximity already.
- NoCt1, on 08/12/2008, -4/+5They already made 90% citizens. That was their reason for defending.
- beartamer, on 08/12/2008, -6/+2Heh... those "I told you guys, Russia is a big-red-badass that will strike through, hack, slash, kill, crush and destroy till the end" boring messages again. CNN didn't tell that war is over already?
- dehaxor, on 08/12/2008, -9/+6For such people as you russian television showed a newsreport where injured georgian solider was helped by the rusian medics and he was given a cellphone to call home and tell his mother that he is in safety...
- skiddles, on 08/12/2008, -4/+5Yes, but now he is dead!
- dehaxor, on 08/14/2008, -0/+0Any proof?
Stup spreading your ***** opinion, you know only about your ass and doesn't think there must be some place for others.
Our nation has 1000 year history and your nation has no history at all, we never attacked any country first, but you attacked, you need to get more money, more oil, more everything, because you think that you are better. But it's not so, it's just your dream, and you have only to pray for us and our patience. But we starting to lost it...
Remember all ***** stupid americans - don't wake the russian sleeping bear!
- krispykreams, on 08/12/2008, -3/+6You sir, are a moron. Look up military placement of Russian troops in the last 20 to 30 years.
- kooft, on 08/12/2008, -4/+17"Georgia tried to deal with the rebel issues WITHIN Georgian border on the pretext of humanitarian aid and protection."
Well, technically, they attacked the autonomous region of South Ossetia. While it is technically a part of Georgia they are bound by treaties to adhere to certain rules. These treaties allow for Russian peace-keeping troops in the area and instead of complaining to Moscow about rebel mortars, they killed the Russian peace-keepers.
Sure, maybe Russia was looking for a way into the conflict, but they didn't technically start it. Georgia went overboard with their retaliation and once they realized that Russia was going all out too, they cried 'uncle'. Sorry, but I understand why Russia isn't just rolling over for them.
Compare this to the 03 Iraq war. The US invaded without any Americans being killed or even threatened. When Saddam offered to comply at the last minute (weapons inspections, fleeing the country), the US said, "well, too bad, we already have our troops/equipment over there". Going by the US example, Russia has the right to destroy the entire Georgian infrastructure and install a Russian friendly government. - philhatesyou, on 08/12/2008, -3/+7Hey look, Russia announced that they're done, and their incursion into Georgia proper is limited to the most easily defensible positions outside of the breakaway republics. Turns out they were just trying to right a wrong. How stupid do you feel?
- Alawn, on 08/12/2008, -5/+12Georgia is the bad guy here. What is wrong with you people?
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Nah, more like what's wrong with you?
- browntiger, on 08/12/2008, -1/+10Georgia SackOfShilly was making public statements about recapturing Ossetia since 2004.
Do you have to be stupid not to plan?
>No superpower in the world can deploy 1500 Tanks and over 10,000 Armed personnel within 24-48 Hours unless they had been planning the attack and preping for it for some time already.
What do you expect. Those battalion were in ready mode for the last 2+ years. Idiot SackOfShilly attacked the armada and then cried "help help"
Don't be stupid. - Jacare, on 08/12/2008, -3/+7i thought the cold war was over but i guess people in America cant seem to stop associating russia (and cuba) with satan.
August 1st: intense fighting began between Georgian troops and paramilitary soldiers of South Ossetia
August 3rd: the Russian government allowed South Ossetians to begin evacuation into Russia, which resulted in twenty bus-loads of refugees leaving the region on the first day
August 4th: five battalions of the Russian 58th Army were moved to the vicinity of Roki Tunnel(border between russia and south Ossetia)
August 5th-6th: sporadic fighting continued throughout the next several days. On 6 August, Georgia said it had lost an APC and that three Georgian soldiers had been wounded. Four people were killed that night and Georgia resumed shelling at daybreak. Residents once again began evacuating areas of South Ossetia and Georgia moved tanks, artillery, and troops to the border
august 7th: fighting continues but by the days end Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili ordered a unilateral ceasefire.
Night of August 7 – August 8: Georgia shells the cities of Avnevi, Eredvi, Nuli and a couple others (Georgian news reported that Georgian-populated villages of South-Ossetia were first hit, however this contradicts the reports of Itar Tass)
August 8th: Georgia continues its offensive into south Ossetia
August 8th: Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin condemned the "aggressive actions" by Georgia and said that Russia would be compelled to retaliate
August 8th: Georgia shells a russian military barracks in South ossetia
August 8th: Russia moves in and begins the war we now see
TL;DR: Georgia started it and the main reason Russia went as far they did into Georgia is because Georgia kept shelling and fighting them
PS 70-90% of South Osettian citizens hold Russian passports and Russia has political/humanitarian/business interests with south Ossetia- drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3And I would argue that the Russians should never have been involved in the breakaway provinces in the first place, then their military personnel would not have been in any danger.
The Russians brought themselves into a Georgian territorial conflict. Let's be real here. - Jacare, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2South Ossetia has been independent from Georgia since it declared independence as the Republic of South Ossetia early in the 1990s during the first Georgian-Ossetian conflict. so to get things straight Georgia is the country that invaded a foreign nation first. Russia is simply the only country with the balls to stand up for the little guy
Georgia wanted to do some good ole fashion "ethnic cleansing" in those breakaway provinces. Russia was in the right doing humanitarian things by supplying south ossetia with 60% of its money, evacuating its citizens when Georgia decided to shell them, giving them the opportunity to become Russian Citizens, and standing up for the people of south ossetia when no one else would.
and the "military personnel" in question were peace keepers
i agree Russia brought itself into the conflict but i think they were just in doing so and Georgia knew exactly what would happen if they invaded south ossetia they've been saying they were gonna do it since 2004 and knew perfectly well what russia was capable of doing and they did it anyway. they called russia's bluff so to speak...only problem is... Russia wasn't bluffing
- drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3And I would argue that the Russians should never have been involved in the breakaway provinces in the first place, then their military personnel would not have been in any danger.
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5How about the fact that the South Ossetia is situated fairly close to Chechnya, where about 45,000 combat-ready, professional, contract Russian troops have been stationed for 8 years?
Russia did not plan for this. Check this out:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2008/08/rapid-ru ... - DigzDogg, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3point by point...
>I told you guys from the start that Russia has
>been planning this and is doing this to destroy Georgia.
"I'm telling you guys! That was bat! A huge bat!!" (c) Batman
First of all who are you to tell? Intelligence expert whos specialization Caucasus region? Or just paranoid kid who find Georgia on the globe yesterday?
"from the start" of what? from the start of the world? of from the start of you reading news?
>No superpower in the world can deploy 1500 Tanks and over 10,000 Armed personnel within 24-48 Hours >unless they had been planning the attack and preping for it for some time already. To bring that much troops >from various parts of Russia will take time but Russians responded with that much force when Georgia tried to >deal with the rebel issues WITHIN Georgian border on the pretext of humanitarian aid and protection.
I see. You thought that borders of Russia are empty and unprotected. While all Russian tanks are standing on red square in Moscow and personnel in gulag camps on vacation. No. This is not true.
Do you know where Russian troops were located before attack? Every heard that planes was invented recently? They fly rather quickly and can carry more troops than even biggest zeppelin!
>Now Russians are bombing all over Georgia, attacking from all sides, blockading Georgian ports and refusing >to allow food, medicine and basic necessities into Georgia.
How all is "all"? Attacking from all sides, you mean Turks are involved too? What a shame!
BTW where thousands of innocent Georgians killed? I know where Ossetans. But where georgians. So far only 80 killed reported. Not much for "bombing all over"
How Russia can prevent delivery of "food" and 'medecine" if they allow Georgians to transport their 2000 SOLDERS from Iraq? May be some one else do not want to deliver "food" and "medicine" but only troops and weapons.
Think about it.
>Clearly Russia has alternate motives. Now Russia wants Georgia to get its garrison out of the northern >territories it controls in an effort to take chunks of land from Georgia and reintrigate it into Russia.
Why Russia need land from Georgia? What the big idea? They had enough, when I've seen them last time on map.
>Watch what is going to happen. Russia will simply hand out its passports to any people remaining in that land
>and claim they are now "Russian citizens" so the Russian troops will stay in those lands are "peacekeepers" >permanently....
...and? What then? Spending millions supplying their troops, protecting them, having all that mess with UN, EC, US? For what reason? AFAK US not paying for Russian troops to be kept there. They are not US, they don't print money, their poeople are not so democratic to allow keep troops on another side of the globe just for fun. Why Russia need that?!
- mcla007, on 08/12/2008, -12/+56A simpler explanation could be that Russian intelligence was expecting Saakashvili's attack on South Ossetia and was prepared to take advantage of it. Now that they've got an opportunity they are making the best of it in geopolitical terms. Saakashvili could have saved his country lot of grief by not perpetrating a genocide on Ossetians. Now Russia holds the moral high ground and can get away with a great deal of unnecessary violence. Georgians can thank their able leader for his criminal stupidity.
- Bagos1, on 08/12/2008, -13/+6No, he does not stand alone.
- BESTenemy, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5Indeed, he stands surrounded by ghosts of 2000 dead Ossetian civilians.
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2Ahhh the truth.
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1And about 100,000 Georgians rallying to his cause.... alone indeed.
- BESTenemy, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5Indeed, he stands surrounded by ghosts of 2000 dead Ossetian civilians.
- cyb3rdemon, on 08/12/2008, -10/+105http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=27773806w ...
- IvanAndreevich, on 08/12/2008, -4/+17Nicely done
- kuchino, on 08/12/2008, -4/+13Perfect explanation
- Caffeinate, on 08/12/2008, -2/+3Exactly.
- Absurdum, on 08/12/2008, -1/+11here's another one: http://www.echo.msk.ru/att/element-533330-misc-smo ...
- thematrixexpert, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1awesome cyb3rdemon
- chaserm, on 08/12/2008, -9/+3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_jCdbcAjNM
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 08/12/2008, -32/+22Georgia does not stand alone.
McCain says all Americans back Georgia in struggle
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/candidates_georgia
McCain told more than 2,000 voters in York, Pa., that he spoke Tuesday morning with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili to make sure he knows "that the thoughts, prayers and support of the American people are with that great little nation as it struggles today" for independence.
"I told him that I know I speak for every American when I said to him, today, we are all Georgians," McCain said to loud applause. He said Saakashvili asked him to express his thanks to Americans.- NoCt1, on 08/12/2008, -10/+33Um.. First off. ***** Georgia. They could have done something different. They got ***** in the end. I do not approve of mccain saying that today americans are georgians. I for one am not shedding a tear for it. It sucks yes. but
Georgia started it. - gn0stik, on 08/12/2008, -8/+6President Mikhail Saakashvili overheard saying "Thanks so much for your patronizing lack of action, and knee-jerk kind words, you useless polite."
/in a better world. - kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -8/+9Vote for McCain?
Because he wants to bring back the threat of global thermonuclear war over a genocidal former Russian republic. I know I speak for every American when I say "What the ***** are you smoking, and please get out of my country!"- coreyb, on 08/12/2008, -3/+2I don't and I am an American.
Confucius say, "When you want to sound like a dumb ass, assume."
- coreyb, on 08/12/2008, -3/+2I don't and I am an American.
- FreddieD, on 08/12/2008, -4/+13Saakashvili talking to McCain is like Commissioner Gordon sending out the batsignal for Robin.
- Bravesguy18, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3Holy GOP, Batman!!!
- atish505, on 08/12/2008, -8/+3McCain and US Politicians: All Words no action.
Russian leaders: Action (shoot first) talk later.
Guess who is winning the war.
McCain and Bush lack the balls to take on Russia.- FreddieD, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6Two nuclear powers taking each other on = a really bad idea
Georgia has some oil and a western mindset but it's not exactly a critical ally in any other regard, so all the US would ever do (whether it be Bush, McCain or Obama) is sit there, say "i disagree" and then move on to other matters.
We also need Russia's help keep Iran from going nuclear. - arjie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+5I think the whole world doesn't have the balls to see America take on Russia, dude. If I heard that, I'd stockpile and build me a bunker.
- DesignNerd, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2"McCain and Bush lack the balls to take on Russia."
They also lack the military to take on Russia.
- FreddieD, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6Two nuclear powers taking each other on = a really bad idea
- Caffeinate, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3atish, there is no "winning the war" in this situation for the US, because it isn't any of our damn business. Whether they "lack the balls" or not is of no consequence, because again, it isn't any of our damn business. Got it?
- EthylAdded, on 08/12/2008, -0/+5McCain must be an idiot. Has he completely forgotten how this started? Georgia tried to take over South Ossetia, killing 10 Russian peacekeepers and probably thousands of civilians in the process. Any person in America who is sympathetic to Georgia for reaping what they sowed is a complete moron.
We need a politician who can talk straight: "Yes, Georgia is an ugly little *****, but we don't like Russia taking this opportunity to expand their borders and get a little stronger, making it harder for the US to throw its weight around. Russia, back off!" - insomniac8400, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1So McCain wants us to side with an extremest country that invaded another country and oppose Russia who acted as a peace keeping force(exactly the same tactics our country uses)? This lunatic is clearly vying for WW3.
Russia did a good thing, because clearly our country wasn't going to help. But of course Russia did it in order to try to annex Ossetia in the future. Now it's the international communities' job to stop Russia and make Ossetia an independent country.
- NoCt1, on 08/12/2008, -10/+33Um.. First off. ***** Georgia. They could have done something different. They got ***** in the end. I do not approve of mccain saying that today americans are georgians. I for one am not shedding a tear for it. It sucks yes. but
- galvo, on 08/12/2008, -5/+6I like ultimatums.
- Hetman, on 08/12/2008, -12/+67Sorry Georgia you picked the wrong fight. Did they actually think the west would risk a confrontation with Russia. They still have one of the most powerful armed forces in the world. It would not be a good time to be a Georgian politician.
- AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -14/+9?
Georgia didn't pick a fight with Russia. Georgia and South Ossetia were fighting then Russia moved in to steal their wallets.- kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -7/+15South Ossetia had been a rebel province for a long time, held a referendum in the 90's and entered into an alliance with Russia. They were effectively a Russian satellite ally. You don't have to be a political science major to see that this was going to provoke Russia. Georgia counted on international pressure to stop Russia from tank ***** them. Apparently they over estimated the amount of effort the international community is willing to put to defending a Genocidal regime.
- AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -6/+4Lol genocidal. Please don't overuse that word, it will lose its meaning.
- FlyingSpaghetti, on 08/12/2008, -2/+8* A Russian revolt has taken place in South Ossetia.
* Georgia declares war on Russia.
* Mutual defence pact between Georgia and United States has been broken.
* Russia captured South Ossetia!
* Russia captured Senaki! - AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -8/+3WTF?
Forget I said anything. Talking with Americans about international conflicts is a challenge I don't have the strength to accept.
- geoken, on 08/12/2008, -2/+3If you want to have a discussion with grown ups stop playing dumb. Do you really think Georgia didn't know what it was getting into when it attacked a breakaway region of it's country which is essentially a protectorate of another country.
- koroviev, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2yeah its the wifes fault
she deserved the beating
- AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -14/+9?
- wilhoitm, on 08/12/2008, -10/+14All we need now is another war! Is that what McCain is saying?
- holzp, on 08/12/2008, -10/+2In capitalist United States, Georgia secedes from you!
- NoCt1, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2they were never apart of the us.
- plainOldFool, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1It's not the Sweet Tea Georgia that got invaded. Sure, our Georgia has the Braves, but it's a third rate symphony.
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Stupid.
- statuescrumble, on 08/12/2008, -4/+37You guys are late.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7555858.stm
Tis over already. No more sentimental lamentation from diggers. So much for all those dire predictions.- BXRWXR, on 08/12/2008, -0/+12From TFA: "He (Russian President Dmitry Medvedev) told officials that the safety of Russian citizens and peacekeepers in South Ossetia had been restored."
And it is pending approval from all parties, so it's kind of not over yet. - zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -4/+4Then why are the Russians still on the move?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26116598/ - funk13, on 08/12/2008, -6/+4Al-Jazeera is still reporting attacks on Georgia.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2008/08/2 ...
so who really knows? - freebird09, on 08/12/2008, -2/+24From the article linked in his comment: Bush's comments about Russia "invading a sovereign state":
"Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st Century."
Did that sentence feel like a punch in the stomach for anyone else who read it? - N0_SkillZ, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Statue, if only things were that simple. This is FAR from over.
- BXRWXR, on 08/12/2008, -0/+12From TFA: "He (Russian President Dmitry Medvedev) told officials that the safety of Russian citizens and peacekeepers in South Ossetia had been restored."
- WorldWisdom, on 08/12/2008, -15/+6Wow! Before you condemn Russia, read this article. I view this issue a little differently now.
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/artic ...- DonQueso, on 08/12/2008, -5/+1Georgia, like many of the former Soviet republics, is a state with no real reason to exist.
The author of the article should explain what real reason's there are for his existence. this guy is a moron.
your handle is obviously sarcasm, right? - skiddles, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2This idiot author is basically saying that Georgia should "play dead" with the Russian bear. The Russian govt is just trying to get along with everyone.
What a load of crap.
Russia has been acting with impunity around the world for a couple of years now killing people who speak against papa Putin.
Only Putin has the balls to say "I object to you having a missile shield that is totally useless against Russia's offensive capacity because it will be effective against my little terrorist vassal Iran"
Russia is clearly in expansionist mode and Europe needs to figure out where they are going to draw the line. All of the ex Soviet Bloc countries need to know if they are attacked whether NATO will do anything more than they will for Georgia.
If I was in the old Soviet Bloc I would want to see action on the side of Georgia otherwise I would assume that Brussels is willing to conveniently forget that Poland is part of NATO when Putin settles a dispute between Poles.
Russia has been and is testing the West's resolve. So far, they have not seen any.
- DonQueso, on 08/12/2008, -5/+1Georgia, like many of the former Soviet republics, is a state with no real reason to exist.
- Nessyr, on 08/12/2008, -13/+3You trust in it? It not the truth! Russia.Russia wants the world and stability
- kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -1/+8English *****,
do you speak it?- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1He's Russian.
- Nessyr, on 08/13/2008, -1/+0Kingmanic,you stupid?
What for to offend?
- kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -1/+8English *****,
- dha07030, on 08/12/2008, -3/+2Ultimatum is a cool word... sorry that's all I got this conflict is a bit confusing.
- AchaIemoipas, on 08/12/2008, -1/+4So is that sentence.
- djoobacca, on 08/12/2008, -6/+13Uh, Georgia surrendered already and ceasefire is in effect.
- FreddieD, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3Until it gets broken as quickly as the LAST ceasefire...
- Nessyr, on 08/12/2008, -9/+2You trust in it? It not the truth! Russia.Russia wants the world and stability
- asw0210, on 08/12/2008, -5/+11I want to hear Russia speak to NATO about their justifications for the attack before I jump to conclusions.
- dehaxor, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5Oh, you are the first, who told something not extreme about Russia..
- Caffeinate, on 08/12/2008, -1/+6No, a lot of people are saying the same thing.
It looks to me like Russia did what it had to do to protect their allies - Georgia killed people in South Ossetia, and Russia responded by defending them.
- Caffeinate, on 08/12/2008, -1/+6No, a lot of people are saying the same thing.
- brooho, on 08/12/2008, -4/+13http://digg.com/political_opinion/Media_Disinforma ...
"I woke up on Saturday morning, went to the BBC website. On the front page, the main headline read "Russian jets attack Georgian town".
So I clicked on the story, which included pictures of injured Georgians:
Here are excerpts from that article:
"Russian jets have carried out strikes on military targets in the central Georgian town of Gori, close to the breakaway region of South Ossetia."
"Georgian officials say 60 people were killed when bombs hit two blocks of flats in the town."
"Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said his country was seeking "to force the Georgian side to peace".
"The comments came after Russian commanders announced they were sending more troops into South Ossetia. They also confirmed two Russian jets had been shot down over Georgia, although they did not say where. "
"After days of exchanging heavy fire with the Russian-backed separatists, Georgian forces launched a surprise attack on Thursday night to regain control of the region, which has had de facto independence since the end of a civil war in 1992. "
"In response, Moscow sent armoured units across the border. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said about 1,500 people had been killed so far, including 15 of his country's soldiers.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili denounced the claims of a high civilian death toll as an "egregious lie".
"Georgia said Russia had also launched air strikes on targets inside its territory, in what it described as "a full-scale military invasion".
"The UK, the US and France, are pinpointing what they say is Russia's aggression as the key factor in the slide towards war, while Moscow insists Georgia is to blame. "
Only after looking at various other media sources was I to realise that the BBC had told me only half the story. Other news sources which have let me down in a similar way include The Sun, The Daily Mirror, CBS and CNN.
The vast majority of the news stories I read, including this one, failed to mention the Georgian attack on South Ossetia, which left 1500 people dead. The BBC mentions this, but does not point out that those dead are the South Ossetians, who declared independence from Georgia in the 1990s.
If I had only read news from BBC, I would be under the impression that Russia have attacked Georgia out of the blue and left 1500 people dead. This, of course is far from the truth. But that's what I had thought until I had investigated further. It was the other way about. This article was never updated to include the full story.
In another article, the BBC make out the Georgians killed a dozen peacekeepers - they ignore the fact that the Georgians had actually killed at least 1000 people before the Russians intervened. Instead, the BBC then say that in response, the Russians bombed Georgian towns, killing around 60 people, before the Russians escalated the conflict further.
It's the same in nearly every other Western mainstream media source. Watching CBS, they had pictures of tanks underneath a title that said, "Russian assault", again pointing the blame at Russia!
And I noticed too, on the like of CNN and BBC, news reports gave the Georgian President far more air-time than they gave anyone else. In a 10 minute segment of CNN, the Georgian President had been allowed to talk for several minutes, but all we got from the Russian PM was a quote from earlier on. And the things the Georgian President were saying was utter balls. He said things like "They took a convenient time to attack such a small country" and "We're under attack, help us!".
I had to go to the likes of infowars.com and watch Russia Today to get the full story. My household are being forced to pay more than $200/£100 for BBC's TV license. And this is the kind of rubbish they spew out!"
http://digg.com/world_news/War_in_Ossetia_and_how_ ...
"Let's see some facts and how it present on US media.
Facts:
1. Georgian army invaded South Ossetia and kill 1500 civilians (2% of all South Ossetia population) and kill more then 10 peacekeepers in first day of war. Before Russian army come.
2. 30000 refugees goes to Russia and ask protection, no one goes to Georgia.
3. South Ossetian capital completely destroyed (with civilians inside) by Georgian heavy weapon.
4. Georgians used "Grad" (reactive artillery systems) to destroy Tshinvali. This is not "precision weapons". "Grad" destroy all and kill everybody on square kilometers.
5. Only after all this happened Russian army come South Ossetia and start destroying Georgian military objects.
6. World media begins company about Russian Aggression. May be there some civilians killed by Russian weapon when they fight military objects on Georgia. It's bad. Very bad. But it's far far from 1500 civilians killed by Georgians in first day and 500 civilians in 2nd day.
7. There is no any oil pipeline on South Ossetia. But Georgia have oil pipeline on their territory.
8. Georgia ally of US. South Ossetia ally of Russia.
It's facts.
What say American politics:
1. Russian response 'disproportionate'
2. Russia must go out
(if 1500 civilians killed by Georgia at first day, how much they kill if Russia go out? politics do not care about that. They care about "who is our ally" but not "who kill 2000 civilians by 2 days")
What say media:
1. Russia invades Georgia
2. Georgia forces seek cease-fire
(seek cease-fire, after killing 2000 civilians!!!)
3. Russian warplanes target Georgia
4. There many pics in world media from Georgia and nothing from South Ossetia
(nothing about real facts, looks like it Russian invades - technically it's not lie, but they hide true)
And some questions:
1. What a hell with this world happen? Why real genocide with 2000 dead people is not interesting to world media.
2. People, please, why you so love story about Russian aggressors? Why you dont see who is real aggressor?!
3. I understand that Georgia is your ally. But when your ally make genocide why your media support it?"
http://digg.com/world_news/Civilian_Genocide_by_Ge ...
The truth behind who is primarily responsible for the bloodshed unfolding in South Ossetia and surrounding areas has been buried by the western corporate media. Georgian forces, with a green light from NATO and the support of American and Ukrainian mercenaries, launched a brutal attack targeting civilians and Russian peacekeepers...- talonstriker, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2I agree with what you're saying. When you're listening to major news networks, you have to listen carefully. More often than not, they'll tell you all the information, but they'll try to bury some of the information they just reported by focusing on one such part of it. e.g. I caught ABC doing that yesterday. They (for a moment) admitted that Georgia attacked Ossetia and kill 1500, then immediately changed focus to Russians dismanting Georgia to portray Russia as the bad guys.
Furthermore, in case Russia annexes South Ossetia, I wonder if anyone will draw comparsions to US annexing Texas in a similar manner. - halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Hey brooho, aren't you a member of the FSB or something? Go wage your information warfare someplace else buster.
- brooho, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1I'm bloody KGB agent of course.
- brooho, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1And I want people see both sides. This is very dangerous. Shut up me before i spoiled your entire propaganda campaign.
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1@ broohoo, actually, I was about to suggest that you might need to shut me up before I wreck you and your fellow Putin/Medvedev apologists' information warfare campaign... ;)
- brooho, on 08/14/2008, -1/+1I tell: "see both sides"
You tell: "Go ... someplace else buster"
You just may be afraid that if you see more, you will understand that you are wrong?
- talonstriker, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2I agree with what you're saying. When you're listening to major news networks, you have to listen carefully. More often than not, they'll tell you all the information, but they'll try to bury some of the information they just reported by focusing on one such part of it. e.g. I caught ABC doing that yesterday. They (for a moment) admitted that Georgia attacked Ossetia and kill 1500, then immediately changed focus to Russians dismanting Georgia to portray Russia as the bad guys.
- dehaxor, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5Oh, you are the first, who told something not extreme about Russia..
- kansai22, on 08/12/2008, -5/+6I don't understand why anyone would mess with Putin. Why did they even give him a reason its clear that he is near crazy. Putin is the kind of man that if you step on his shoes he will kill you. I think we all know Russia had this planned all along but Georgia gave them a reason to pull it off.
- dehaxor, on 08/12/2008, -4/+3Do you know Putin personally or wtf you talking here? :)
- arjie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3Putin is a some high belt in judo. I wouldn't cross the guy either. Look at him!
Just kidding, he seems very calm. Remember that time this protester walked up to him in Germany and started yelling at him and throwing papers at him? He said, "Why don't you sit down and we'll talk this over, young man?" or something to that effect. Of course, all that doesn't change his foreign policy. - FlyingSpaghetti, on 08/12/2008, -0/+4It's true. He's a real bad ass. The other day he was spotted eating Wookie meat tacos.
- arjie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3Putin is a some high belt in judo. I wouldn't cross the guy either. Look at him!
- valkyries, on 08/12/2008, -2/+1putin is the prime minster now not the president.
- sultanknish, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1same dictator, different title
- dehaxor, on 08/12/2008, -4/+3Do you know Putin personally or wtf you talking here? :)
- wright3279, on 08/12/2008, -6/+10Georgia down. Who's next?
- FreddieD, on 08/12/2008, -0/+17Alabama.
- DigzDogg, on 08/13/2008, -0/+0Alabama should invade Mississippi first, kill couple of thousands there, and then...
- sildude, on 08/12/2008, -1/+4yea people, the conflict is over. thank god.
this newsarticle is a bit late - djoobacca, on 08/12/2008, -9/+17Hopefully Saakashvili will be tried for war crimes in South Ossetia. This person is a US-backed dictator who pretends to stand for freedom and democracy. He must go the way of Saddam.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -1/+4Well the only way this will ever happen is if Putin goes the way of Saddam as well...
- ZenMojo, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Nah, he could just do what the US did. Raze the entire country to the ground, declare them "liberated" and then dig Saaki out of a rat hole.
- skiddles, on 08/12/2008, -2/+7And Putin for war crimes in Chechnya hey comrade.
- djoobacca, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1getting rid of terrorists is not a war crime, and if chechnya hated putin so much, it wouldn't be fighting against georgian fascism for putin, hey redneck?
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -1/+4Well the only way this will ever happen is if Putin goes the way of Saddam as well...
- lead2thehead, on 08/12/2008, -9/+11The Russians would gladly reclaim half of Europe if they had the resources.
- kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -1/+8They would; and the US would like economic control of the entire world if they could; and China wouldn't mind economic control of the world as well; Ditto with India.
- maj0rm0j0, on 08/12/2008, -3/+6Actually the US pretty much has economic control of the world. I don't know where you are, but if the US economy doesn't do well your country's won't either. Bury me if you like, but it doesn't change the truth.
- kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3Maj0rm0j0: I agree, The US does have and likes that control . They arrange regime changes when the economic policies go against them. Some areas resist but a "revolution" is near by all regimes who resist. I'm just saying that type of control is desired by everyone so Russia's military enforcement of it's sphere of influence is hardly unique. Even it's desire to own Europe isn't. I'm sure the US would like tighter ownership of Venezuela (and it's oil).
- lead2thehead, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1Economic control is one thing. Taking their country by force and annexing it as part of Mother Russia is an entirely different matter.
- maj0rm0j0, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1kingmanic: I agree with your response. The US will have troubles with Venezuela for a while due to the enormous support Chavez gets from the people of Venezuela, but when the resources are again available, I would wager the Venezuelan regime will be at the top of the list right next to Iran. The current American administration isn't happy at all that almost all of South America is going hard left, and most of this change has spread from Venezuela and Chavez's influence in the region.
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2Reclaim? They never claimed it in the first place. Russia != Stalinist USSR. Why would they need any more land, any way?
- maj0rm0j0, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1This isn't about land. Just like every military incursion from major powers in the world right now, it's about the oil that is under and flows over the land.
- lead2thehead, on 08/12/2008, -1/+0>> Russia != Stalinist USSR
It's only been 16 years since the USSR collapsed. I assure you that the Stalinists are still alive and well.
- kingmanic, on 08/12/2008, -1/+8They would; and the US would like economic control of the entire world if they could; and China wouldn't mind economic control of the world as well; Ditto with India.
- dehaxor, on 08/12/2008, -8/+16Oh, it's New York times, lol.
Russia didn't issue any ultimatum, and not moved from it's borders into Georgia.
Your government feed you with such *****, they want you to start hate all russian and all russians, I am not surprized.- skiddles, on 08/12/2008, -8/+4When was the last time you heard of an American journalist being killed by Bush? Never. Putin silences those he does not control.
Not even the NYT is as dishonest as Pravda. Close, but not quite.- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3I never heard of Putin killing any journalists either. I just heard the lame implications by the neocon-controlled Western media. They report that Putin had probably killed Politkovskaya, but then, a few weeks later, when the real killers are arrested, they completely ignore that news. Anna Politkovskaya was killed by Chechen mobsters, with the involvement of one bribed Russia security official. They have been arrested and are awaiting trial. Case closed.
- getbusyliving, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3We are fed complete ***** by the popular corporate media. Sorry.
- ZenMojo, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Have you seen CNN lately?
- skiddles, on 08/12/2008, -8/+4When was the last time you heard of an American journalist being killed by Bush? Never. Putin silences those he does not control.
- howyudoin, on 08/12/2008, -2/+3Suddenly, Ace Combat
- maj0rm0j0, on 08/12/2008, -2/+10Does Georgia have an Information Minister? He could tell the Russians to surrender now and they will spare Moscow!
- talonstriker, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1I think his name is Napoleon.
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1They have several just on Digg.
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -9/+20If putin hadn't done this, Georgia would have started killing the russians in Abkhazia as well. This guy went on a killing rampage of ethnic russians civilians for NO reason. Why can't people understand that?
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -11/+3Why can't you understand that your head if filled with lies and propaganda from your state run media??
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -2/+6My state run media doesn't do positive stories on putin. What are you talking about? When you use that meme, you have to be talking about something the state run media propaganda channels have said. They only say positvie things about georgia. I'm saying putin did the right thing by attacking georgia. Please explain to me what you mean.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -4/+1This entire thing was perpetrated by Russia and has been planned for years. The Olympics provided the perfect smoke screen to set this off. Your comments make it clear that you have been getting your reports from Russia media, which is nothing but rubbish propaganda. Georgia is NOT innocent in this, but Russia is much worst. Why can't you understand this?
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -4/+3Horse *****. Israel, the united states and neoconservatives and the oligarchs have been planning this for years. Just because you haven't followed the situation until the last three days doesn't mean other people don't know what's going on.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/13/topsto ...
http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/Cda ... - zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2I have been following this for years (probably longer than you have) and am well aware of the entire thing. Just because a democratically elected leader wants to have his nation join NATO does not give Russia the grounds for an invasion. The US and NATO is in every right to provide weapons and training to Georgia as THEY WANT TO BE A NATO MEMBER STATE and RUSSIA HAS BEEN BUILDING UP THEIR TROOPS ALONG THE GEORGIAN BORDER FOR YEARS! Why are you so ignorant on the facts in this situation?
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2Are you covering for Israel's involvement or something? That's the only reason I can imagine that you would condone the murder of a couple thousand innocent civilians and ignore georgias criminal behavior. You have to have an ulterior motive for such insanity. Is it covering for Israel? Russia has said Georgia can do what it wishes on Cspan today, just not to their citizens. Russia simply wouldn't stand the murder of two thousand people for no reason. I don't care if russians were on the border dancing nude with bottles of vodka and having sex with bears. Georgia acted first, and their leader should go exactly where Slobodan Milosevic did, and for the same reason. Why would you argue in favor of unprovoked mass murder. You have to have an ulterior motive. Tell me what it is.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3Clearly you are ***** crazy flogistan and lack any form of reason or common sense. There are no Russian citizens in any of the breakaway provinces of Georgia, these are infact territorial lands of Georgia. Your facts are greatly warped and you have no handle on reality. Your blind hatred of Israel and the US has turned you into a blind sheep, much as hitler was able to do with the Germans before WW2. I have seen no evidence of genocide from Russia. Why should I not believe the reports coming out of Georgia that the Russian army is rounding up all of the Georgian citizens they find in the breakaway provinces and executing them on site with a bullet to the head? S. Ossetian rebels acted first and Georgia (over)-reacted in self defense. Get your ***** facts straight and open your ***** eyes. Why do you argue in favor of unprovoked mass murder of Georgian civilians by the Russian military? The Russians have been directly targeting civilian infrastructure after all as we can see the photographs of the Georgian apartment blocks completely bombed out and on fire, there is actual proof of this.
- flogistan, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1When in doubt, just lie your ass off.
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+2@ flogistan, your media is just terrified to say anything that might be construed as being "anti-Putin".
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -2/+6My state run media doesn't do positive stories on putin. What are you talking about? When you use that meme, you have to be talking about something the state run media propaganda channels have said. They only say positvie things about georgia. I'm saying putin did the right thing by attacking georgia. Please explain to me what you mean.
- Joeyg50, on 08/12/2008, -9/+2You are a commie just like putin viva democracy commie
- byronm, on 08/12/2008, -3/+3Sorry, but Communism only lives in China right now and we appear to like enough to have the Olympics there.
- flogistan, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2If china is a communist country, how can they be so successful at capitalism while exploiting their workers to do so? How can TV put these ideas in peoples heads without them detecting the absurd contradiction of the propaganda they're being indoctrinated with?
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3@byronm:
Sorry, but Communism doesn't exist any where and never has. It's a utopian system that has yet to be functionally implemented. When a country says that they are "Communist", it only means that they are aspiring to it.
- Alawn, on 08/12/2008, -5/+4You are right. Everybody is so crazy here and believes all the propaganda they here. Russia is 100% right here and Georgia is 100% wrong here
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2The entire western world disagrees with you.
- flogistan, on 08/13/2008, -2/+1Are you sure it's not just the western TV people that disagree with me?
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -11/+3Why can't you understand that your head if filled with lies and propaganda from your state run media??
- blackturtleus, on 08/12/2008, -9/+16Russia did the right thing in defending South Ossetia. Just like the USA would have been justified in over-throwing Iraq when they invaded Kuwait back during the reign of George the First, Russia would have had every right to over-throw the current regime in Georgia. HOWEVER, I just watched a press conference with Medvedev and Sarkozy and a cease-fire has been reached! (Check out russiatoday.com for up to date news on the matter!)
- Joeyg50, on 08/12/2008, -8/+3You are a commie like Putin and his boytoy demitri
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -0/+1Haha, someone with a modicum of sense and a lack of blind Russian nationalism!
- Joeyg50, on 08/12/2008, -8/+3You are a commie like Putin and his boytoy demitri
- stix213, on 08/12/2008, -11/+6Taking these two provinces of Georgia has been in the works for some time. First Russia hands out Russian passports/citizenship to people within these provinces, then when Georgia attempts to reestablish control Russia "conveniently" claims they are protecting Russian citizens.
Georgia either didn't understand what Russia was trying to do for the past 5 years, or simply miscalculated the Russian response to Georgia's attack on their break-away provinces.
-Nick - justice7, on 08/12/2008, -3/+17this is really inaccurate speculative garbage and pure blogspam.
A Ceasefire has been reached
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/12/georgia ...
Also, Georgia is not a NATO member yet, and therefor NATO is not required to aid them.
http://www.nato.int/issues/nato-georgia/index.html
If however, Georgia was a full NATO member, it would be on like donkey-kong.- philhatesyou, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1"this is really inaccurate speculative garbage and pure blogspam."
Welcome to wired.com. - Daxx22, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1In Wired's defense, this is over a day old, and a day ago, no ceasefire was in sight.
- eavesdrop, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1They have to issue a cease fire. World Leaders are going to Georgia to "survey the damage". But that's insurance for Georgia, Russians are not stupid enough to bomb cities and whatnot where there is the French Minister present for example. There would be an global uproar if Russians continued to bomb cities where their leaders are present. I sure as hell wouldn't feel comfortable with a senator in a Georgian city, and the Russians still decide to bomb it, it would piss me the ***** off.
- ArtDzot, on 08/12/2008, -0/+0And Georgia is not a EU member yet, but Saakashvili uses EU flag in his TV speech. Why?
- philhatesyou, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1"this is really inaccurate speculative garbage and pure blogspam."
- peticsu, on 08/12/2008, -0/+10I think Georgias president thought NATO would come swoop in to save them if things got out of hand (poor guy, naive enough to take a politicians words), maybe a quid pro quo from US/EU military support for the oil pipeline. The funny thing is McCain is saying we need to break free from foreign oil but you KNOW hes going to try to finish and continue daddy Cheney's oil-infrastructure plans. I'm not pro-Russia but speaking realistically, its not worth it.
- everlast88, on 08/12/2008, -2/+17what did Georgia expect was going to happen when they ***** around with one of the big dogs?
- brooho, on 08/12/2008, -18/+17http://digg.com/political_opinion/Media_Disinforma ...
"I woke up on Saturday morning, went to the BBC website. On the front page, the main headline read "Russian jets attack Georgian town".
So I clicked on the story, which included pictures of injured Georgians:
Here are excerpts from that article:
"Russian jets have carried out strikes on military targets in the central Georgian town of Gori, close to the breakaway region of South Ossetia."
"Georgian officials say 60 people were killed when bombs hit two blocks of flats in the town."
"Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said his country was seeking "to force the Georgian side to peace".
"The comments came after Russian commanders announced they were sending more troops into South Ossetia. They also confirmed two Russian jets had been shot down over Georgia, although they did not say where. "
"After days of exchanging heavy fire with the Russian-backed separatists, Georgian forces launched a surprise attack on Thursday night to regain control of the region, which has had de facto independence since the end of a civil war in 1992. "
"In response, Moscow sent armoured units across the border. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said about 1,500 people had been killed so far, including 15 of his country's soldiers.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili denounced the claims of a high civilian death toll as an "egregious lie".
"Georgia said Russia had also launched air strikes on targets inside its territory, in what it described as "a full-scale military invasion".
"The UK, the US and France, are pinpointing what they say is Russia's aggression as the key factor in the slide towards war, while Moscow insists Georgia is to blame. "
Only after looking at various other media sources was I to realise that the BBC had told me only half the story. Other news sources which have let me down in a similar way include The Sun, The Daily Mirror, CBS and CNN.
The vast majority of the news stories I read, including this one, failed to mention the Georgian attack on South Ossetia, which left 1500 people dead. The BBC mentions this, but does not point out that those dead are the South Ossetians, who declared independence from Georgia in the 1990s.
If I had only read news from BBC, I would be under the impression that Russia have attacked Georgia out of the blue and left 1500 people dead. This, of course is far from the truth. But that's what I had thought until I had investigated further. It was the other way about. This article was never updated to include the full story.
In another article, the BBC make out the Georgians killed a dozen peacekeepers - they ignore the fact that the Georgians had actually killed at least 1000 people before the Russians intervened. Instead, the BBC then say that in response, the Russians bombed Georgian towns, killing around 60 people, before the Russians escalated the conflict further.
It's the same in nearly every other Western mainstream media source. Watching CBS, they had pictures of tanks underneath a title that said, "Russian assault", again pointing the blame at Russia!
And I noticed too, on the like of CNN and BBC, news reports gave the Georgian President far more air-time than they gave anyone else. In a 10 minute segment of CNN, the Georgian President had been allowed to talk for several minutes, but all we got from the Russian PM was a quote from earlier on. And the things the Georgian President were saying was utter balls. He said things like "They took a convenient time to attack such a small country" and "We're under attack, help us!".
I had to go to the likes of infowars.com and watch Russia Today to get the full story. My household are being forced to pay more than $200/£100 for BBC's TV license. And this is the kind of rubbish they spew out!"
http://digg.com/world_news/War_in_Ossetia_and_how_ ...
"Let's see some facts and how it present on US media.
Facts:
1. Georgian army invaded South Ossetia and kill 1500 civilians (2% of all South Ossetia population) and kill more then 10 peacekeepers in first day of war. Before Russian army come.
2. 30000 refugees goes to Russia and ask protection, no one goes to Georgia.
3. South Ossetian capital completely destroyed (with civilians inside) by Georgian heavy weapon.
4. Georgians used "Grad" (reactive artillery systems) to destroy Tshinvali. This is not "precision weapons". "Grad" destroy all and kill everybody on square kilometers.
5. Only after all this happened Russian army come South Ossetia and start destroying Georgian military objects.
6. World media begins company about Russian Aggression. May be there some civilians killed by Russian weapon when they fight military objects on Georgia. It's bad. Very bad. But it's far far from 1500 civilians killed by Georgians in first day and 500 civilians in 2nd day.
7. There is no any oil pipeline on South Ossetia. But Georgia have oil pipeline on their territory.
8. Georgia ally of US. South Ossetia ally of Russia.
It's facts.
What say American politics:
1. Russian response 'disproportionate'
2. Russia must go out
(if 1500 civilians killed by Georgia at first day, how much they kill if Russia go out? politics do not care about that. They care about "who is our ally" but not "who kill 2000 civilians by 2 days")
What say media:
1. Russia invades Georgia
2. Georgia forces seek cease-fire
(seek cease-fire, after killing 2000 civilians!!!)
3. Russian warplanes target Georgia
4. There many pics in world media from Georgia and nothing from South Ossetia
(nothing about real facts, looks like it Russian invades - technically it's not lie, but they hide true)
And some questions:
1. What a hell with this world happen? Why real genocide with 2000 dead people is not interesting to world media.
2. People, please, why you so love story about Russian aggressors? Why you dont see who is real aggressor?!
3. I understand that Georgia is your ally. But when your ally make genocide why your media support it?"
http://digg.com/world_news/Civilian_Genocide_by_Ge ...
The truth behind who is primarily responsible for the bloodshed unfolding in South Ossetia and surrounding areas has been buried by the western corporate media. Georgian forces, with a green light from NATO and the support of American and Ukrainian mercenaries, launched a brutal attack targeting civilians and Russian peacekeepers...- Ymeg, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2.
- Merp08, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5Must you post this same thing over and over again on every article about Georgia?
- brooho, on 08/12/2008, -3/+1I just want to encourage people to look the other side.
Because the media cultivates hatred of Russia, showing only one side. - halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1@ brooho, I think Putin and his stooge Medvedev do a fine job cultivating hatred of Russian all by themselves.
- brooho, on 08/12/2008, -3/+1I just want to encourage people to look the other side.
- Smurph0404, on 08/12/2008, -3/+4I think this is less about Russia wanting Georgia back and more about them wanting to remind everyone that they can still throw their military might around. When the US and other countries go into areas like Afghanistan, Iraq, or Iran Russia wants them to be more careful, and now they probably will.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5Has the cold war taught you nothing??? Actions like these by Russia causes further conflict. Just look at the post-WW2 days up until '91, nothing but proxy wars on both sides... If anything Russia just gave the US the resolve to go into Iran (before this new cold war gets even hotter). The final power grab is on, before you know it both sides will be at a stand off once again.
- byronm, on 08/12/2008, -4/+1Has history taught you nothing? The US incited most of the violence against Russia to keep them occupied and to try and spend them out of existence. We fought proxy wars all over the world and guess what. Russia is still a force to be reckoned with and no one is any safer.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -0/+3My god you commies really do eat up your propaganda. I don't remember much of the cold war, and I have respected and even loved Russian culture for years. But seeing such blatant lies from people who think that Russia is in the right makes me sick and Russia has lost a ton of respect (I am not claiming that Georgia was right in their actions, they weren't. But Russia clearly went way overboard with this). I can see why America didn't like Russians, you guys spew nothing but ***** propaganda about how your country is so great and can do no wrong all the ***** time. When the US invaded Iraq, I ***** hated my country for it and could see right through their propaganda, but the Russians are completely blind sheep and think that they are doing the right thing?!?!
- omegared, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1so where most of the American people at the time when the iraq are started. both nations believe in the propaganda. Don't blame one country, that is naive and ignorant you making America and American people better than russia, when they are not.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -1/+5Has the cold war taught you nothing??? Actions like these by Russia causes further conflict. Just look at the post-WW2 days up until '91, nothing but proxy wars on both sides... If anything Russia just gave the US the resolve to go into Iran (before this new cold war gets even hotter). The final power grab is on, before you know it both sides will be at a stand off once again.
- gasoline, on 08/12/2008, -12/+8Most of the ethnic Georgians who were in South Ossetia have been taken to Kurta detention camp by Russian troops or have been killed by separatist paramilitaries. Local witnesses are reporting that Russian troops (or Russian allied militia) are now verifying the ethnicity of residents of other conquered regions and — if they are Georgian — they are summarily executing them with a bullet to their head. Reports of such massacres are coming from the villages of Nikosi, Kurta, and Armarishili. Russia refuses to let any journalists or Red Cross workers to these areas.
This is the holocaust happening in front of your eyes. Many wonder - why didn't anyone do anything during the WWII? But what are you doing? Are you doing anything at all? Are you even aware?- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -6/+3Russia is playing a game of information warfare, this is quite evident by many of the comments here on digg. The only possible response I see that has some teeth to it is a invasion of Iran. Its a key Russian ally and would send the message that we do not tolerate attacking our allies. Now is not the time for a direct military confrontation with Russia. We need to build our forces back up to our cold war levels before anything like this is possible. *sigh* The difference a week makes, if you would have asked me last week if an invasion of Iran would be a reasonable thing I would have said absolutely not, but the Russian actions change the entire world dynamics. We cannot allow Russia to get away with this aggression with just a slap on the wrist.
- EtherGnat, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2"Russia is playing a game of information warfare"
...and so is Georgia. If you think either side has their hands clean in this, or that there is a clear cut good guy/bad guy in this situation I feel sorry for you. - zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2I agree completely EtherGnat! Georgia is NOT innocent here. But the actions taken by Russia far trump those of the Georgians. I am not a Georgian apologist, they did some very ***** things by hitting a city with artillery. But Russia has gone way overboard in this entire thing. If Russia would have stayed in S. Ossetia and not bomb civilian and economic infrastructure inside of Georgia and not open up the second front in the other break away province and not actual violate Georgian borders outside of the breakaway regions I would have to side with Russia. But Russia knows better and has retaliated in a disproportionate manner and I truly feel sorry for the people who cannot see this!
- twitrock, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1warmonger
- EtherGnat, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2"Russia is playing a game of information warfare"
- philhatesyou, on 08/12/2008, -2/+6[citation needed]
- gasoline, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2You'll get it once it's all over. As usual.
- Theisos, on 08/12/2008, -2/+5Provide links to your ***** sources!
- gasoline, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2http://georgiamfa.blogspot.com/2008/08/continued-p ...
All their reports have been correct so far. - Theisos, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1A blog by "Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Georgia." Considering the huge amount of very inaccurate information provided by Georgia during this crisis, I won't be quick to put trust in their words for a long time to come. Russia's reaction at the start of this mess may have been overkill but Georgia isn't helping this mess with their disinformation.
- gasoline, on 08/12/2008, -2/+2http://georgiamfa.blogspot.com/2008/08/continued-p ...
- kemp34, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3citation MAJORLY needed
- browntiger, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3Bologna
- BabyWookie, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2Whatever you say, Tbilisi Bob.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -6/+3Russia is playing a game of information warfare, this is quite evident by many of the comments here on digg. The only possible response I see that has some teeth to it is a invasion of Iran. Its a key Russian ally and would send the message that we do not tolerate attacking our allies. Now is not the time for a direct military confrontation with Russia. We need to build our forces back up to our cold war levels before anything like this is possible. *sigh* The difference a week makes, if you would have asked me last week if an invasion of Iran would be a reasonable thing I would have said absolutely not, but the Russian actions change the entire world dynamics. We cannot allow Russia to get away with this aggression with just a slap on the wrist.
- waydee, on 08/12/2008, -2/+3Bit behind the times here digg... this was yesterday. Today Russia have said they're pulling out their troops and they're negotiating a peace plan right now.
- gasoline, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3Russian television is flush with footage of misery left by the Georgian assault in the separatist district of South Ossetia, but few, if any, reports mention Russia's bombing of Georgia.
William Dunbar, a correspondent in Georgia for English-language state channel RUSSIA TODAY, mentioned the bombing in a report Saturday, and he has not gone on air for the station since.
"I had a series of live, video satellite links scheduled for later that day, and they were canceled by Russia Today," he said by telephone from Tbilisi on Sunday. "The real news, the real facts of the matter, didn't conform to what they were trying to report, and therefore, they wouldn't let me report it.
"I felt that I had no choice but to resign," he added.
Source:
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/369695.ht ... - drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Yeah because every time a Russian minister gets on TV he tells the truth... and then some country is invaded 3 hours later by said Russian military.
GG.
- gasoline, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3Russian television is flush with footage of misery left by the Georgian assault in the separatist district of South Ossetia, but few, if any, reports mention Russia's bombing of Georgia.
- brooho, on 08/12/2008, -5/+2TheRealNews: Who's to blame for the Russian Georgian conflict?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_jCdbcAjNM- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Russia demonstrated how big of a bully and dangerous everyone imagined it to be... perhaps even exceeding some imaginations.
- Grolsch, on 08/12/2008, -4/+16I bet 99% of people on here didnt even know where Georgia is on map or they wanted to join NATO before this war happened. Its funny how you kids like to assume alot of ***** and spread your stupid ideology.
I've never seen so much propaganda against Russian people until I came to USA and I was led to believe that people here are very friendly and great America is the answer. I was very wrong. Ignorance is bliss should be the motto for US.- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -7/+3Ignorance is bliss should be the motto for Russia as well.
- saar, on 08/12/2008, -4/+5So go back to Russia
- Grolsch, on 08/12/2008, -0/+6This is exactly what I am doing as soon as can. Dont worry.
- zeusthemoose, on 08/12/2008, -2/+1Good, have fun once the Iron curtain goes back up :)
- ArtDzot, on 08/12/2008, -0/+0Are you nazi?
- form3hide, on 08/12/2008, -1/+3ignorance is bliss should be the motto for *the matrix.
- twitrock, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2amazing how people will point of the problems with each other. The key is realizing you own problems and fixing them yourself.
As I'm sure you are still in the USA, but everyone here is so ignorant....so I guess that would make you just as ignorant. - Grolsch, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1No it wouldnt twitrock. Do some traveling in your life and educate yourself.
- twitrock, on 08/12/2008, -0/+2amazing how people will point of the problems with each other. The key is realizing you own problems and fixing them yourself.
- geekee, on 08/12/2008, -1/+2Georgia's desire to join NATO is one of the reasons Russia invaded. They're sphere of influence is slipping as all their former satellite countries tell them to go screw themselves. We haven't forgotten how Russia interfered with Ukraine's elections, BTW.
- drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -2/+3Look, your former KGB agent former "President" now Prime Minister has suppressed journalism and killed journalists in your country, has suppressed and killed any one with a bankroll that could threaten his position by funding any opposition against him and his thugs, has launched military operations on Chehnya (nevermind they want independece too right?), launched cyber attacks on all of its formerly conquered satellite republics, flexed it economic muscle by shutting off the oil to Europe during wintertime (and to serve as a warning to Georgia for the Caspian pipeline), and now has invaded a democratic, sovereign country that was attempting to reclaim its territory from Russian proxies.
So, tell me again... what don't I know about current Mother Russia? Looks like they want to resurrect the glory of the old empire.- Grolsch, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Looks like the only country who is supposed to be secure and stable is US? Dont look at Russian politics and worry about your country. Look up Berezovsky and journalist killing as well. And dont touch Chechnya, where government is more unstable and corrupt than Iraq. You only think US have to worry terrorist attacks? This subject is so big that I wont even go there, I dont know where to start. So unless you lived in Russia, shut the ***** up. Its nice to talk behind your computer and watch TV when all your needs are met. Try living where I lived and then talk.
- drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Grolsch,
Nice way of making assumptions. Thanks but I happen to have been to two warzones and you've done what?
I suppose you equate draconian, Stalinistic, KGB methods as secure and stable? Sure, for those in power it is.
Sorry, but the last time the U.S. looked at just sitting on the sidelines Hitler was dominating Europe. And would have dominated the Soviet Union eventually if the U.S. hadn't gotten involved.
Why not touch Chechnya? Its a breakaway province, same as Ossetia... yet apparently its only OK if Ossetia breaks away from Georgia in Russian eyes. How is what Georgia was doing to Ossetia any different than what Russia was doing with Chechnya? I don't recall Georgia escalating the conflict there, unlike the Russians were doing with Ossetia.
As for living where you lived, I haven't. But I have lived in the Middle East for 10 years, as a white American male... spare me your sob story.
- halliburke, on 08/13/2008, -1/+1Grolsch, go back to Russia with its spiraling population plunge, fueled by vodka and cynicism.... there are way more than enough people here in the land of opportunity.
- mooseontheloose, on 08/12/2008, -4/+15Even if what Russia is doing is wrong (which I am ambivalent about still) the US is probably the last country in the world that can criticize them about it. Their reasons for going into Georgia are far far more solid than the reasons we had for going into Iraq.
- geekee, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Keep drinking the anti-Anerican kool-aid. Russia just conquered two territories they didn't hold before from a "sovereign" democratic nation. The US has no intention of keeping any territory in Iraq, nor was that "sovereign" country controlled by a democratically elected leader. Obama was in there talking to a democratically elected leader instead of Hussein, who would have been the leader had Obama gotten his way.
- mooseontheloose, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Ah, the ad hominems. I'm an American hating commie because I don't like our foreign policy? Interesting.
Though according to you, a country only has sovereignty if it follows your opinion of what a government should be.
Check out America's Iraqi embassy: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1404/919667599_da27 ...
Yep. No intentions of staying there or installing any kind of puppet government. No siree. America would never do something like that.
The only difference between what America and Russia does is the latter just doesn't give a crap of hiding behind a false veneer of "liberty and freedom and jesus!!!11"
- mooseontheloose, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Ah, the ad hominems. I'm an American hating commie because I don't like our foreign policy? Interesting.
- drazen77, on 08/12/2008, -1/+1Not so, the conflict isn't even remotely similiar. But nice try.
Dictatorship!=Democracy.
Russia invaded a democratic, sovereign nation.- mooseontheloose, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Iraq was a sovereign republic too. Bush deposed the elected president of the Republic of Iraq. You may contend he used unlawful means despite what he called it, but Russia says the same about Georgia.
What's your point again? - drazen77,
- mooseontheloose, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Iraq was a sovereign republic too. Bush deposed the elected president of the Republic of Iraq. You may contend he used unlawful means despite what he called it, but Russia says the same about Georgia.
- geekee, on 08/12/2008, -0/+1Keep drinking the anti-Anerican kool-aid. Russia just conquered two territories they didn't hold before from a "sovereign" democratic nation. The US has no intention of keeping any territory in Iraq, nor was that "sovereign" country controlled by a democratically elected leader. Obama was in there talking to a democratically elected leader instead of Hussein, who would have been the leader had Obama gotten his way.
