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One Million Protesters March Against Taiwan Leader

english.people.com.cn — More than 1 million protesters took to Taipei's streets in driving rain on Friday night in a bid to step up the pressure on embattled President Chen Shui-bian to resign over alleged corruption.

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  • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5There weren't 1 million people on the streets of Taipei. According to the organization responsible for this event, an estimated of about 750 thousand people attended.
    • zigamorph, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Is this "one million" or one million
    • knightblade2oo4, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11That's awesome.

      "When people are sad, they don't do anything. They just cry over their condition. But when they get angry, they bring about a change."
      -Malcolm X
    • buss, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Keep in mind that this story's news source is People's Daily, the mouthpiece of China's government. The actual number of people was likely much less than what is stated. The protest makes Taiwan's government look weak and gives China's government a better stance against Taiwan's independence.
    • diggthiscrap, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7These people are more AMERICAN than we. We sit at our keyboardss criticizing out officials and not one of use as marched against the corruption in our own nation. It pains me to say that I am ashamed of myself and of us. Digg has 500,000 registered members. How many of us would march against government corruption?
    • DoctorNo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5People should put the source into context, People's Daily is one of the many media organizations run by the Chinese government (PRC) and is considered the official newspaper of "Communist Party of China".


      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Daily

      This is important because China views Taiwan as a rogue province and belonging to them, Chen Shui-bian is opposed to Chinese rule and Taiwanese independence, and China views him negatively, and China has declared that they may even take Taiwan by military force.

      http://www.mac.gov.tw/english/english/anti/mofa940329e.htm
    • omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Never trust mainland Chinese news sources when it comes to issues like this. They are government-owned and promote their own agenda.
    • ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The protest movement has had a maximum of 90,000 people according to police estimates. The next day they had 3000. The final day of protests, 75,000 according to police estimates, something which BBC or other news networks didn't follow. Even the organizers themselves said a maximum of 300,000. A far cry from 1 million.

      Here's the real news:

      A partisan effort to overthrow the president disguised as a populist movement:

      A partisan party, that calls itself the Non Partisan party loses over 10 cases against the democratically elected President of Taiwan. They then bid to impeach him which gets thrown out. So they then move on to baseless accusations and protests instead with threats to physically overthrow the president (keep in mind, up to now not the President nor his family has been convicted of any crime).

      Meanwhile the branch of government that fights corruption is being blocked by the opposition party's majority in the legislative and the United States Congress sends a letter to the opposition parties to work under the rule or law and not baseless accusations.

      Its a really sickening and vile movement considering its being headed by a few men who have spotty and some of the most corrupt records themselves, like James Soong for example who was convicted of the biggest tax evasion case in Taiwan's history.

      You could read more about the situation at sites like http://taiwanmatters.blogspot.com/ or michaelturton.blogspot.com, which has a huge number of links to various other sites that speak of the entire situation.
  • anonymoustroll, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15> 750 thousand people attended.

    Do you know what 750 thousand people looks like when they get together in one place to protest?

    Yes? Well, then you're the only one, because I don't believe it has ever happened before.
  • nwshc, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7Well at least THEY stand up to their leader on a large scale. Why doesn't America have large scale protest like that infront of the White House?
    • mikesty, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Either,

      1. The cause isn't great enough to merit such effort (i.e. Bush isn't that terrible)

      2. We're just too damn lazy

      C. A little of both ... most "critics" and people who claim to be "bush hat0rs" are nothing more than armchair critics.
    • redwire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Because they expect everyone else to do it. You want to fix it, you go out and try and fix it, you want a million man march, you go out and start to organise it.

      It might work, it might not, but at least you will have tried instead of sitting there going "I wish someone would go out and fix the world".
    • Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8IV. Americans are cynics and know that marching on Washington won't do a damn thing. MLK got capped.
    • fahrenheitlf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6The protest zone would be set up a quarter mile away and anyone protesting outside the area would be arrested.

      http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html
    • gmillerd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Dunno, but your right. Its a sad thing http://protest.net/ has not NOTHING going on.
    • mikesty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If it's so tearfully sad, why aren't you doing anything?
    • knightblade2oo4, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Remember the WTO riots of Seattle?

      That brought about a result. The thing is, the government wont do ***** unless you pin them against a wall. Seattle was on the verge of being completely destroyed until the president flew there and resolved it.

      On a large enough scale, anything's possible.
    • night141, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"On a large enough scale, anything's possible."

      Until you really piss them off and get the national guard involved. Violent riots are not the way to get your point across.
    • omaryak, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Bush isn't that terrible"

      In that case, I'd hate to see what terrible is.
    • 2ndRevolution, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0We don't do things on large scales such as this because most Americans are up to their eyeballs in debt and couldn't afford to take the time off work to visit Washington for a proper showing.

      Many have more house and car than they can truly afford so are unknowingly slaves to their possessions. House rich/cash poor.

      Also, by keeping us taxed to the hilt, we don't bring home enough of our paycheck to be able to miss more than three days without pay and we start sweating come monthly bill time.

  • retsamsaah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15This is from the people's daily, a paper from mainland china. Actually, it's the official paper of the Communist Party in China. The fact that the word "president" is placed in quotes is a good indicator that this may not be an unbiased source. The numbers may, or may not be inflated. Either way, it's best to take the news with a grain of salt until a less interested news source reports.
  • j56ons, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7圍城全長5.5公里. 行進間的人如果平均人與人間距為一公尺那就很可怕了.5.5公里一排人約5千5百人.如果要10萬人.一條道路如部隊排隊要大約19排.(如要行進我看還不足). 那是要如成功嶺聽訓,不能行走之滿滿的人.當然站前廣場的人和附近會比較密.您想那個廣場會比成功嶺操場大嗎? 成功嶺一梯也才1萬多人.廣場人擠人3萬人很可怕了.

    所以那有多少人.5/6萬就很多了吧.只是在一小空間擠滿了人.
    還不是一大堆道路空間零零落落.

    他們敢如228牽手從頭攝影到尾. 數百公里.不能騙人的.
    反分裂法分遊行10條路線,還每條都10多公里.馬市長也才說10多萬.

    如果是75萬.那不是要約136排滿滿 是人.那一條路是那麼寬.衡陽路20排就很可怕了.
    • titlesaysitall, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Translation----

      Mrs. length of 5.5 km. If the average people who began as a meter spacing it Very dreadful. 5.5 km in a row were about five hundred thousand people. If 100,000 people. If the road Pai queuing up to about 19 units. (If I can still inadequate road). It is to listen to succeed Davis FUN, not walk, a whole lot of people. Of course, the square in front of the station would be near and close. You want Davis Square playground that will be successful over time? Davis also successfully only 10,000 people a ladder. Square people 30,000 people crowded very dreadful. So that the number of people. 5/6 million on the many bars. Only In a small room crowded with people. 2003 - yo is still a lot of road space. They dare So far as 228 photographers from scratch to the end. Several hundred kilometers. Not a lie. You anti-secession law pm Bank on 10 routes, each have more than 10 km. Mayor Ma also said more than 10 million. If Is 750,000. That is not an offer of 136 people packed row. That road is so wide. Hengyang Road It is a terrible row 20
    • buss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Please...if you're going to post a "translation," don't just run it through babelfish or google translater.
    • night141, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"You want Davis Square playground that will be successful over time? "

      YES!!!! Where do I enter in my credit card info!?!
    • changjoe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Translation:
      The protest route is 5.5 km, and if we assume the average distance between one person to another is 1 meter, then 5.5 km would imply 5,500 protesters in a single file. So with 100,000 people, then there will be around 19 rows of people. So even with 30,000 people, it will be very busy.
    • ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The guy is basically saying that from what we say, and with people a very reasonable 1 meter apart it would be impossible to get over 30,000, even less 75,000 people at the march considering how long the protest was and where it was at.

      I'd say the police estimates were most accurate at 75,000.
  • Germs, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The problem with the president of Taiwan is that his family has been implicated in some insider trading, specifically his son-in-law. Some of his cabinet has also been ousted because of the same corruption scandal, including a couple high ranking officials. The problem with the protesters is that if they succeed, they will be setting a dangerous precedent for future leaders of Taiwan. Chen Shui-bien himself hasn't been proven of doing anything. The island nation (I use that term hesitatingly because most of the world doesn't recognize Taiwan as a country, although personally I think the island deserves such recognition) has a very young democracy and doesn't seem to understand the "innocent before proven guilty" judicial system that most other modern democratic societies have.

    The other issue is the opposition party which is leading the protest has been noted of massive tax fraud, corruption and other crimes, the biggest reason they were put out of power in the 2000 election. And now they're trying to use the same issue against the current leaders and for whatever reason, the Taiwanese people aren't seeing that.

    It's a big mess. Not to mention that China has 800 missiles pointed at them.
    • mhl12, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1at least someone here knows enough chinese to translate it properly.
    • Germs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I wasn't translating the block of chinese characters above...but thanks for believing that I'm capable of that. I can only wish that my chinese skills where that good =P.
    • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Very true. Well said.

      President Chen has not been proven guilty whatsoever. Most of the people who support the opposition party hate President Chen to the heart because President Chen is a pro-independence. These people who want President Chen to resign has been trying ever since President Chen got elected in 2000. ("When Chang's announcement came out, Lien was furious and the KMT began an effort to recall the President." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_Shui-Bian#First_term_presidency)
  • gridman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6One thing about this protest (and the counter rally) is that it really emphasizes the differences between Taiwan and China.

    In China, they'd have brought the tanks in and slaughtered them.

    Taiwan might be a young democracy, but it's still better than the alternative.
    • gaoshan, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Oh bullsh!t. You don't know what you are talking about. The China of today is quite different from the China of, say, 1989. Jeez, the ignorance of most westerners about China is stunning. Sadly, most folks here will simply nod their heads in agreement with this "slaughter them" b.s. all the while knowing next to nothing about the real China.
      I, a white boy from Ohio who learned to speak the language, have been traveling and doing business there for 10 years and I can assure you that you, and most others who commenter on China, REALLY don't know the facts regarding China.
    • illynova, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8gaoshan:

      I'm sorry, but I call ***** on you. Either that, or you're ignorant to the point of incredulaity. You're WHITE, a white BUSINESS man on buiness for China. They're going to show you their good side, because they want you.

      I'm chinese. I've lived in China. I have family in China - and they all know what happens when you speak out against the government. Sure, it could be on international news - but what is the United States going to do? Invade? More like whine about "human rights violations" that we are ourselves so grossly violate, while doing nothing at all.
    • gridman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Gaoshan.

      Perhaps you're right, this isn't the China of 1989. Nowadays they're more subtle. Look at their thoughtful and tolerant treatment of the Falun Gong. It's much better to be hauled off to be jailed and/or die out of sight. Bodies on TV are embarassing.

      I deal with Chinese and Taiwanese on a regular basis and I'm amazed at childish 4-year old mentality of the Chinese when it comes to any discussion of Taiwan. They shout, the storm out of meetings and they stamp their little feet - all over an issue that has no bearing on them individually whatsover. They use every bullying tactic they can to get their way. Usually it's something as trivial as removing the word "Taiwan" from every publication they can find.

      It shows how deeply ingrained their biases really are. You can accuse westerners of being ignorant - and, most of them are because it really doesn't have any impact on them - but being ignorant in another way isn't any better.

      Don't make excuses for China.

    • igotdugout, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@gaoshan

      If you really think that's how it is in China, you obviously been living in the nicer part of it, and its generally where mostly Hong Kong people live. People from Hong Kong ARE in fact nicer, and generally live in the richer areas, but once you go to the small villages outside these areas, it's a whole different world.
  • gaoshan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2There have been at least 2 major protests against Chen Shui-bian in the last couple of weeks. I know about this because the BBC has covered them. CNN, on the other hand, did not cover the first protest at all and this second one can only be found buried in their "world" section.
    We in the USA think we have such a free and open press yet the coverage provided by our own media outlets is frequently only slightly less biased than that provided in places like China.
  • 2ndRevolution, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Eventually we'll have our own "million man march". It will obviously not involve the sheeple who believe everything Unkle Skam and the TV tell you. It will be those of us who realize that we have allowed the status quo to go on for far too long.

    PS - It won't be friendly
  • Maceart, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3As a Taiwanese American, I'm truly saddened that the Chen administration had to go to this level. My father participated in this rally, not out of disgust for Chen himself, but for his inaction. He has promised so much, but has delievered so little. It is time for him to step down.

    And as for those people above who says this march "solidifies" China's claim that Taiwan isn't independent, look again. The march shows that when corruption happens, the Taiwanese people actually have the right to do something about it. In China? Say hello to prison or work farm. At least Taiwan can still read Wikipedia and non censored Google while China's own corrupt government puts up a "great firewall" to block free information out.

    Think about it. Taiwan has its own government, its own currency, its own Olympic Team, its own written language (Traditional Chinese, not that simplifiied ***** that the CCP teaches to its poor peasants) along with the tallest building in the world. I say, let Taiwan in the UN. It'll do better for peace in this volatile region.
    • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Go read Germ's comment. Chen is not proven guilty of any crime. If he promised anything and if anyone isn't satisfied, recall him through the legislature with a legitimate reason. Don't recall him for a crime that he is not guilty of, like the unsuccessful attempt in June.
  • wr332, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0china has changed alot. i mean alot,
    people that are not communist, are tough to hate them. but communist are not tough to hate others,

    whos that bad guy now,
    • Maceart, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The problem is that his own administration is trying to block a legitimate recall effort. And if you understand the workings of the Taiwanese Yuan system, a recall requires a very high majority of its legislative house along with a majority of its voting population in order to recall him.
  • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Maceart: The administration is blocking the recall because the reason was not legitimate. I don't know if you ever watched the speech made by Chen to contradict the top ten reasons of the recall. Chen made many valid points to prove that the recall was not legitimate.

    When the next Legislative Yuan election comes, let the Taiwan people decide their representatives who in return will vote for them in the recall. It's democracy, let the people decide through their suffrage rights.

    Plus, if any chance, Chen resigns, the vice-president will succeed. How is that going to help the situation anyways? It's going to be a bigger mess.
  • Maceart, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0If the vice president ascends the presidency, we can be sure that there will at least be action in Taiwan, which is a good thing for the sluggish island nation. Chen is a sitting duck, even lamer than Bush is right now.
    • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, you can't be sure that the vice-president succeeding will do anything. Keep in mind that the vice-president is even more pro-independence and is also in the DPP. The opposition party will just block all the bills from passing, maybe even recall the president once again.
  • navi3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2One million? Absolutely impossible.
    • ShrimpCrackers, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It was absolutely impossible, even the police estimates were far lower than what they said.

      The biggest protests in Taiwan's history was neither what Mayor Ma Ying Jeou said. It was the hand in hand protest in Taiwan against the Anti-Secession law and against China's aggression. The KMT side protests were far smaller.
  • tektalk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0its all over the chinese press and its been here since the president was elected.
    people hate him for being involved with financial scandals.
    • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is no evidence whatsoever to prove that Chen is invovled in any financial scandals directly. People hate him because he is pro-independence.
  • RavingDrifter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ”
    - Edmund Burke

    That's why those people whatever how many they are go to the street.
  • ding2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0If you guys don't believe in Chinese newspaper, just check out some Taiwanese news sources (too pitiful you don't know Chinese otherwise you know the truth). As I know, the most current poll showed more than 60% of Taiwanese people want the President to step down. And do you know why? This president's wife and all his "inner circle" members were involved in all kinds of corruption scandals. Are you so stupid that you truly believe an democratically elected president won't allow/encourage his family to corrupt? I know most of you guys support Taiwanese independence. OK, that's your right to hold your belief. But if you really believe Chen is protested by his own Taiwanese people because he is pro-independence, you are blinded by your own mind. I am not surprised at all by you kind of people, because you don't know outside world at all with your colored "eyeglasses".
    • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was born in Taiwan, raised in Taiwan. I was in Taiwan a month ago.Please don't question my knowledge about politics in Taiwan.
      But let me ask you a question. Would the same thing happen there happen in a more mature democratic county like the US? If Bush's secretary or any of the "inner circle" was invovled in a scandal, would people ask Bush to step down? I don't think so, unless Bush was directly invovled. You can't prove that the President encouraged his family to be corrupt. You are just assuming. If Chen is proven guilty by law, then he should resign. But right now, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
      Yes, I really do think people protest him because he is pro-independence. And I'm not stupid. Do you even know what the ultimate goal of the KMT is? Their ultimate goal is to unite with China. If the DPP or the Pan-Green has control of the government, they'll have no chance to unite with China. As I've said already, the KMT has been trying to get President Chen resign ever since 2000!
    • jeff1943, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Most of the people who support the KMT came from China during the 1930's, or children of those people. They are scared that Chen will move Taiwan towards independence. They hate Chen to death.
      The media in Taiwan is bias and literally crap. The media literally will find and make news to report. They can use their creative minds and make something small turn into a huge news. I can dare say with evidence that most of the media and press are associated with the Pan-Blue coalition, especially TVBS.
  • RavingDrifter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://david429-1.myweb.hinet.net/taiwan915.wmv
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