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Mutiny on Flight 613

dailymail.co.uk — British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.

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guapohombre 2 years 91 days ago, made popular 2 years 90 days ago

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Who Dugg It?

Wiggles2, on 10/12/2007, -17/+159"In the gate waiting area, people had been talking about these two, who looked really suspicious with their heavy clothing, scruffy, rough, appearance and long hair. Some of the older children, who had seen the terror alert on television, were starting to mutter things like, 'Those two look like they're bombers.' "

Is this what it's come to?
- wm2010russ, on 10/12/2007, -128/+49you know, it wasnt the government doing this, it wasnt the companies doing this, it was the passengers. If you had suspicions enough to suspect that a terrorist was on your plane, you would do everything possible to make sure youre safe. the fact that the airliner didnt listen to the passengers when they first asked the men to be put on another flight is disturbing... what if the passengers really had overheard them talking about blowing up the plane?
  
  either way, i blame the airline company for not listening to its customers. i hope all those passengers never fly that airline again.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -128/+51Unfortunately, yes. It seems as though even the Europeans are done giving Muslims the benefit of he doubt. Do you blame them?
- Hawk2007, on 10/12/2007, -20/+63"Is this what it's come to?"
  
  I don't have time to look through all the FAA regulations to confirm, but I heard years ago after 9/11 that if enough passengers express concern about something on a flight, the airline is required to take action.
- UnknownCzar, on 10/12/2007, -52/+124Funny how the guy saying it's wrong to judge people on how they look is getting modded down, while everyone who says it's okay is getting modded up.
  
  If a liberal place such as digg has sunk this low, then i guess it's time to give up and watch
  a bunch of new Hitlers rise up. Oh, and put all the Muslims into concentration camps while we're at it. Can't have them running around and looking like terrorists, frightening some white trash retards.
  
  Edit:
  
  OP got modded up while I was typing, all is fine it seems.
- jbus, on 10/12/2007, -30/+122This is getting beyond ridiculous... The public is falling for the government's fear mongering ***** hook, line, and sinker and no doubt some are using it to justify their racist views.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -22/+86"Unfortunately, yes. It seems as though even the Europeans are done giving Muslims the benefit of he doubt. Do you blame them?"
  
  Hey, have you looked at the death tolls for civilians in the middle east recently?
  
  Population of EU: 0.5 Bn
  Civilians Killed in ALL terrorist attacks anywhere, since 1968: 43,000
  Civilians Killed on September 11th: 2,976
  
  Population of Muslims : 1.5 Bn
  Civilians Killed in Iraq: 40-45,000
  Civilians Killed in Afghanistan: Unknown - similar to Iraq
  Civilians Killed in Lebanon: 1,300
  Lebanese Civilians held hostage by Israel: 15 + undisclosed
  Lebanese Civilians displaced (possibly homes destroyed): 1M
  Recent Suicide Terrorists < 500
  
  1.5 Bn Muslims, Quite a few of whom will know Arabic, and only a maximum of 500 terrorists. That's like finding the filings of a needlepoint in a haystack the size of a swimming pool.
- RoyHobbs, on 10/12/2007, -31/+10"Funny how the guy saying it's wrong to judge people on how they look is getting modded down, while everyone who says it's okay is getting modded up.
  
  If a liberal place such as digg has sunk this low, then i guess it's time to give up and watch
  a bunch of new Hitlers rise up. Oh, and put all the Muslims into concentration camps while we're at it. Can't have them running around and looking like terrorists, frightening some white trash retards.
  
  Edit:
  
  OP got modded up while I was typing, all is fine it seems."
  
  He also says they should of put these two people on another flight!?! Ok that makes sense (sarcasm)
- DaveMode, on 10/12/2007, -21/+74The airline should have just let whoever wanted to get off the plane go, but keep all their money for the flight and force them to pay full price for a new flight (or allow them to take their business elsewhere). Simple as that.
- dogfood, on 10/12/2007, -10/+31Hawk2007: The FAA has no jurisdiction over foreign air carriers, and as far as I'm aware, the CAA (British equivalent of the FAA) also does not have any rule regulating having passengers removed because other passengers don't like them. The FAA never had such a rule written down in the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations). The FARs that regulated airport security, which are now under the jurisdiction of the TSA (formerly FAR part 77 now 49 CFR part 1542), also have nothing in writing that any passenger (or group of passengers) can legally have another passenger removed because they don't want him/her flying with them. The idea that some people have a legal right to have others removed from an airplane "just because that guy kinda looks like a terrorist I saw on TV" is ridiculous and inacurrate. It is the airlines who make the decision to ask passengers to leave, and they get sued on a regular basis because of it. I would assume you got this info from Fox News?
- ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -40/+15@theone3
  
  if you focus on numbers rather than motivation, or the result rather than the lead-up to it, it does look quite bad, I admit. However, doing so does a disservice to all those killed in the conflict, and shows a severe lack of understanding of how the world works, how people think, and what can be done to stop this. In short, it shows a clear misunderstanding of human psychology and is NOT, as you might believe, a way to end this conflict. I admit that conventional war is also not a way to end this, but your way is not better AT ALL. People like you have what I like to call "arrogant ignorance". You so strongly believe in your assumptions that you refuse to listen to arguments against those assumptions. This is the same problem with Bush and the current U.S. Administration, so you're in pretty bad company there.
  
  Now please allow me to demonstrate your other logical flaws by taking issue with just one term you're using, and that term is "civilians".
  
  In Lebanon, because all Hezbollah fighters (who are outlawed by the government of Lebanon and are considered criminals) are essentially CIVILIANS, it is impossible to separate one from the other. Thus, none of the "civilian" casualties in this recent war can ever be separated into "innocent civilians" and "militant civilians". It makes your job, as an opponent of this war, quite easy, doesn't it? All you have to do is cite the total number of casualties on one side of the border and call it a day. Meanwhile, people like me, who must clearly annoy you to no end with our incessant semantics, will keep posing the question: which of those who are killed members of Hezbollah and are actively involved in a campaign to destroy the state of Israel and wipe out its population, and which of those who are killed are innocent passers-by who were in the wrong place at the wrong time? There's absolutely no way you can know this answer, thus you have just one number, give it the label "CIVILIANS" and call it a day.
  
  Aside from Lebanon, let's look at this term as it applies to Iraq and Afghanistan. Let's say American soldiers are walking down the street on their patrol. A twenty-year-old native "civilian" approaches, armed with an AK-47 rifle given to him by his cleric, and opens fire. American soldiers respond and kill this "civilian". Are deaths like this in your tally? My guess is: of course they are, you do not understand how the term "civilian" applies to this situation, or the conflict as a whole.
  
  Am I saying there are no INNOCENT civilians killed on the side of Lebanon, Iraq, and Afghanistan? Of course there are, that happens in every war, it's unavoidable. But what you're saying, by merely using the ambiguous term "civilian", is that ALL those who are killed are lumped together in one single number. This is not only wrong and illogical, it's downright idiotic and shows a clear misunderstanding of the situation.
  
  There are many other flaws in your reasoning, of course. I could, for example, mention that while international and Israeli forces inflict innocent civilian casualties by accident, the opposing forces of Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are specifically targeting innocent civilians. I could, for example, mention that the opposing civilian and government-funded fighters of these nations use innocent civilians as human shields in the hopes of using the death toll and media attention as a propaganda tool (as can be seen in the recent Reuters debacle) and that very little of what goes on there is exactly as it appears because of this, but again, this is for another debate.
- bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -9/+38I heard they turned one of the passengers into a newt...
  
  you hear these things...
- brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -15/+27If anyone, anywhere, feels uncomfortable doing anything with their family, they should act as these people did - deplane quietly without intentionally offending anyone - and without apology. No need to label or judge them, epsecially if you werent there.
- ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -33/+14To all those modding me down, PLEASE debate me point by point. Do not just try to blindly bury my comment just because you don't know how to refute what I said.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -11/+45Ilyaq, you're being buried because you basically said:
  
  "well yeah, if you look at the statistics.... But let's imagine spurious circumstances that might possibly negate the accuracy of the statistics by a small percentage. See? That completely justifies my point of view"
  
  When in fact what I was actually discussing was the idea that 1.5 Bn Muslims should not be held accountable for the death of only a few thousand civilians at the hands of only a few hundred terrorists, and that these terrorists are actually damaging Muslim nations and Muslim people MORE than they are damaging the EU or the US, regardless of your political and ideological views. Your argument was logically fallacious, unrelated, US-centric, pro-war and long-winded and finnicky.
- cdstewart, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@ilyag
  
  What is your position, other than that theone3s stats are inaccurate? I don't think you made your position very clear.
- ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -26/+10@cdstewart:
  
  My position, which I repeated about half a dozen times, is this:
  
  It is irresponsible and incorrect to label all casualties on the Muslim side of the conflict as "civilians". I went into great effort, detail, and used numerous examples to support this position.
  
  @theone3:
  
  My issue with what you said is that you use the term "civilians" in a highly uneducated manner as it applies to this conflict. Using this term as incorrectly as you have used (and you cited it in almost every one of your bullet points) amounts to spinning the issue beyond all recognizable form. I'm calling you out on your spin. How is this irrelevant when it refutes the single most important premise of your argument (i.e. innocent civilians are the ones being targeted and exterminated).
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3I realise that this is my solution to most things like this. But seriously, sue the airline. Everyone will be better off when you manage a victory at the Lords.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19@ilyag - I called everyone a civillian, including everyone ever killed in a terrorist attack. Undoubtably some weren't. Still, they're all people, and all lives, and the main point of the statistics, regardless of the underlying motives behind the killing, is the same. It's easier to find a needle in a haystack.
- Mofassa, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7@ilyag
  
  Lets say I accept your comments, that we can't trust any of the statistics about civilian casualties because everybody is grouped into that. If that's the case, how do I know Hezbulla is hiding behind civilians? What...because our news sources say they are? The moment you refute another point by claiming bias or problems in statistics, it invalidates anything you claim (virtually). Since...there is then no reason to believe any stat.
  
  The government of Isreal seems to say that every civilian casualty has been because of Hesbulla hiding behind civilians....maybe not directly, but that's essencially their response to any point. If I take this at face value...that it's true..then guess what - I take CIVILIAN deaths as just that...civilian.
  
  You then talk about the random civlian in Iraq that walks down the street with an AK. First off, chances are...those deaths would fall under killed militants...or gourillas...which the US Gov't is more than happy to use Nobody...but apparently you debates the fact that the far majority of deaths in Iraq/Lebanon are civlilan. Usually, people argue that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...and they claim that these large number of civliian deaths are then justified. As much as I disagree with that, that is atleast a valid point.
  
  Debating the validity of a stat, and using that as an argument essentially means anythign someone says to couterpoint you...you could simply play semantics, and BAM..in your eyes, you win. In everybody else's you're just being ignorant (hence hte modding down).
- bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20So anyway - it's a comic now:
  
  http://www.richgentlemenhide.com/comic/2006/08/21/post-105
- SqueakyMouse, on 10/12/2007, -11/+7ilyag is right. When a few herds of gentiles are culled, that doesn't count as civillian deaths.
  
  I'm just joking here, but notice how easy Israeli foreign policy has made it for me to paint them as evil Nazis. In the same way muslim terrorists have lead to awful stereotyping in this article, zionist extremists have done the same for the jewish population.
- Peturbed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34whats more dangerous, talking in arabic or starting a mutiny?
- bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Well it depends on the language you use Peturbed...
  
  Some might say that these passengers hijacked the plane. They literally did, but I guess these guys are the 'freedom fighters' and not the 'insurgents'...
- gpd209, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ Ilyag: I don't know which reports you read, but most of the ones I have come across break casualties down into soldiers, civilians, and insurgents--the insurgents being civilian insurgents. I just don't see how your critique holds any water. That's my reason for modding you down. I'd be pleased to read your response to this.
- Suplyndmnd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@Mofassa
  
  People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 40% of all people know that.
- ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1gpd209, the person to whom I was responding was only using the term "civillians". That's what I called him out on because it's a ***** way to describe that situation.
  
  As for the reports you read, which do break it down -- good on them.
- cdstewart, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@ilyag
  I thought you might have been taking a stand point on the terrorist issue, but instead you're arguing semantics.
  Anyways, I think you are using a definition of the word civilian that I am not familiar with.
  "one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force" -- http://m-w.com/dictionary/civilian
  
  Note that the definition of armed services according to Webster:
  "the combined military, naval, and air forces of a nation"
  http://m-w.com/dictionary/armed%20services
  Unless you're referring to some kind of "Nation of Evil", we do not agree on our definitions.
  
  "A twenty-year-old native "civilian" approaches, armed with an AK-47 rifle given to him by his cleric, and opens fire."
  Yes, according to the definition that I am familiar with, this young adult is a civilian.
- jhop, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1I am concerned about the accuracy of this report after their sensationalistic and inaccurate report about the "iPod" factories. If it's true, then it's going to be a serious issue to deal with. Rules cannot be put in place to prevent a passenger from worrying.
- osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Yay for racism! I don't care what you say, we Americans have been bred to fear Muslims and their friends - I'm not sure whose fault it is, but it's done now, there is no undoing it. (hint to any Muslim terrorists: get a white girl to do your dirty work next time, that will defeat the most steadfast security more easily than you ever could). But is someone seriously going to hijack a plane anymore? It's not worth it, just poision the water, blow up power plants, release the plague again, something different - this cat and mouse game is getting boring. It's time to make things interesting guys!
  
  The suicide bombs are lame anyway, lay off that crap too. Roadside bombs are pretty smart, they do scare me - but I'll be watching my terror threat alert levels with an eagle eye, and when the goverment commands me to act, I will. My government is swift, sane, and smarter than I am, so just tell me what to do - anything you say, I am afraid.
- Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6From what I've read most of the dead in Lebanon were women, children or old people. But of course they can't be civilians because Israel wouldn't kill civilians, would they?
- portaprima, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1My God!
  
  This is unbelievable how people are scared and how it makes them act stupid! It only shows how weak is western civilization.
reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -34/+107Maybe these pussies shouldn't be flying and should just stay at home.

"Oh no there are people in the world who look different then us! 1.2 billion people want to kill me!"
- nymphetamine, on 10/12/2007, -17/+69People are so freaking paranoid nowadays. Jeez, honestly, if I were in that situation I would've stayed on that plane.
  
  "Screw you guys...I'm goin home" - Eric Cartman
- BeefBaron, on 10/12/2007, -37/+17Funny how the most insightful (albeit poorly worded?) comments get buried...
- NoHandle, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4Does everything boil down to fear of the unknown? I wonder how much more pronounced that is through way of religion...fear that all powerful invisible guy...OR ELSE!
- gpd209, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11If I were in charge, this is what would have happened. Those who walked off or refused to board would be forced to wait till the next day (at the earliest) to catch another flight--overnight accomodations at their own expense. I would have asked the two gentlemen off the plane and thoroughly checked their baggage and persons. I would have asked everybody else to exit the plane to carefully search the cabin. Once the men and the plane were cleared (as actually happened), the two men would be let back on the plane first. Anybody who wished to join them would be allowed to return. Those who no longer wanted to take that flight would be welcome to sit at the airport indefinitely waiting for an open seat on a subsequent flight.
- gpd209, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2@dcmachead: for the sake of argument, I'll grant that an alarming proportion of terrorist acts in the present day are perpetrated by people *claiming* to follow Islam. Unfortunately, this doesn't get us very far in terms of airport security. You simply can't profile using appearances. Skin color doesn't work--several of the recent plotters in England were white converts. You can't use gender or age--several suicide bombers in Israel have been women and/or minors. You can't use religious attire--again, several of the suicide bombers in Israel have dresed in Jewish garb to disguise their identity. What do you propose we do then--tattoo everybody's religious identity on their forearm?
  
  The fact is that random screening increases the odds that particularly clever terrorists will get caught--it doesn't jeopardize our security in the name of "political correctness."
jmchez, on 10/12/2007, -28/+31It's up to the governments and airlines to make sure that their passengers feel safe. If security methods had been institute that put people at ease and take into accounts their fears, maybe weird "law into our hands" things like these would not happen.

Right now we have children and old ladies been searched radndomly, while middle eastern young men can be randomly bypassed, in the name of political correctness. You also have makeup and water confiscated. People see this and don't feel any safer just frustrated.

El-Al doesn't do that. They know they could never detect all weapons, thy detect intent instead. Their calm but serious questioning ferrets out background info, which can lead to further questioning. if someone feels offended at having been picked out for more thorough questioning, well that's too bad.
- sonicdevo, on 10/12/2007, -24/+27You're exactly right. It's sad that political correctness is endangering the lives of airline passengers.
  I'm all for judging people on their own merits and actions, and not on some biological characteristic that they can't help... but a little common sense goes a long way.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -17/+4Scapegoats: http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/ewige.jpg
- ShameliouS, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5That's an interesting point of view. You're suggesting racial profiling.
  I know that Britain is looking into this, but I think that's wrong.
  A terrorist can be of any race, religion or culture.
  Just because they wear a jacket on a plane doesn't make them a terrorist.
  
  I also understand that babies can't really blow up a plane.
  Maybe there should be an age limit to searching people.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17@ ShameliouS
  
  You wrote: "A terrorist can be of any race, religion or culture."
  
  The unfortunate fact of the matter boils down to what "can be" and what "is". If a plane, train, or automobile is blown up killing innocent civlians, lately a Muslim has been responsible. That Muslim is typically a male ranging in age from of 17 and 40. Those responsible for recent terrorist actions are from disparate races and cultures, however the religion seems to be the common denominator.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12DCMadHead - I hate to repost in the same story, so please scroll down to the next thread and look for me ;)
  
  Also, Christians vary in looks about as much as Muslims do - you can't always tell a Muslim by looking at him.
- martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"Also, Christians vary in looks about as much as Muslims do - you can't always tell a Muslim by looking at him."
  
  Although they are only a small minority, even some Christians are Arabs...Coptics, Chaldeans, Marionite Christians from Lebanon, etc...
- Fafnir43, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Everyone advocating racial profiling (to the detriment of the 99.99% of Muslims who are NOT in fact terrorists) seems to be missing the fact that if we start focusing our efforts on a given group, the terrorists will start recruiting people outside that group.
  
  Do you seriously believe every terrorist in the world is black? Do you seriously believe that there are no terrorists who can speak English? If we stop searching people because they're [white/female/insert adjective here], then the terrorists will start sending in [white/female/insert adjective here] people, and they will succeed in blowing up planes.
  
  Honestly. If you're going to sacrifice liberty for security, at least do it RIGHT...
- CmdrViel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Right now we have children and old ladies been searched radndomly, while middle eastern young men can be randomly bypassed, in the name of political correctness ... El-Al doesn't do that. They know they could never detect all weapons, thy detect intent instead."
  
  Actually El-Al questions everyone and puts everyone through their baggage checks and all. You're right, they do search for intent, but they do it with everyone. I'm an Israeli citizen and they still do it me after flying for years and showing them my Israeli passport every time.
- miken32, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@DMacHead
  "If a plane, train, or automobile is blown up killing innocent civlians, lately a Muslim has been responsible."
  
  3 words for you: Alfred P Murrah. Want more? Take a look at the IRA, ETA, FARC, etc.
McMultiverse, on 10/12/2007, -4/+47Part of this is obviously mistrust of the current airline security apparatus, what with all the recent reports of security screeners missing banned items and checklists being spotty. Part of this is obviously knee-jerk racism on the part of the passengers, since overhearing a language that "sounds like Arabic" is enough to get people riled. Scruffy appearance? Baggy clothes? Sounds like me at every check-in during college. Checking you watch constantly? Yeah, real out of place when you're waiting at an airport.

If you look at the passengers from September 11th, you see clean-cut dudes who spoke English and didn't call any attention to themselves until they set their nefarious plot in motion. Their whole strategy was to blend in.
headzoo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+74Oh hell... here we go. Proof that terrorist don't need to even do anything to achieve results.
- 15charmaxwtf, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32Sensationalist news reporting is doing a better direct job than the terrorists (although I guess it is indirectly attributable to them).
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26google -> define:terrorist
  
  A radical who *employs terror as a political weapon*; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities
  
  Think upon that very, very carefully.
  
  then take a look at this.
  http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
- smashedhat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4>Oh hell... here we go. Proof that terrorist don't need to even do anything to achieve results.
  
  Or even exist...
pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -10/+53our fear machine is working quite well i see *excellent*
dose, on 10/12/2007, -11/+41Are you scared yet? You should be! And if you're not your a goddamn traitor and turrrist sympathizer!
The_Mule, on 10/12/2007, -10/+85 I, for one, refuse to board any flight that has clean-cut looking, white, mid-Western, Christians on it. You never know who the next Timothy McVeigh is.
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -10/+23Do you mind if I put that quote on a bumper sticker??
- Discourses, on 10/12/2007, -35/+15I love when idiots bring up Timothy McVeigh, who wasn't even Christian. What plane would you rather board, a plane full of middle eastern looking men with beards and turbans or a plane full of clean-cut white middle aged guys. Can't answer honestly can ya.
  - 11b1p, on 02/12/2008, -0/+1LMAO that this got buried they know the answer haha
- IsPoLiN, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19@Discourses
  I'd get on the plane with all the middle eastern looking gentlemen ofcourse. The terrorists don't seem to be interested in blowing THEM up.
- captaineuphoria, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15@discourses
  Would it matter? If the plane contains only a single ethnic group, the chances of it being hijacked is close to nil.
- eadnams, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@Discourses
  
  Also, if they're wearing turbans, they're sikh.Likely from india, fiji or other areas in that region.
- Discourses, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Notice how nobody answered the question.
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2exactly, there a lot of other people that want to blow things up, not just Muslims. McVeigh was upset about the massacre at Waco Texas, and bombed the building housing the Federal district office responsible, it wasn't McVeigh's fault the macho guys that laid seige to a group of mostly women and childeren had offices right above a daycare. Maybe the US should be more careful where we put our hired thugs, huh. You do realize that the "Boston Massacre" that sparked the Revolutionary War was far fewer people killed over a smaller issue.. and history says the Brits were probably right to fire on the crowd to break them up in the first place.... We've gone a long way down.
  
  Anyway, probability is that the next "terrorist" attack will be an angry, white, middle class, law abiding traveler on some TSA no fly list, harrased for the 3rd time in the same week... and made late for business. probably go all "Falling Down" on an airport full of people. You do realize that the govt knows this as well. They know they're squeezing the "honest" people, but law enforcement is about the numbers, not protecting.. we've had that discussion many times here.
Ennoch, on 10/12/2007, -10/+58Malaga is a chav holiday resort, so it's no suprise that the other fliers were ignorant racists.
- 15charmaxwtf, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24I modded you up but I couldn't help but notice a touch of irony :p
- Xanin, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15also this is the Daily Mail, they are a thinly-veiled racist paper
- snypa, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Yep, those damn chavs are narrow minded ***** who are brainwashed by Sky news and accept anything they hear. I wouldn't expect anything less from people like that. They have absolutely no idea about anything. Damn scum.
- weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Chavs watch news? What kind of chavs do you know?
- snypa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The ones who take intermitent breaks from watching Big Brother, Eastenders, The Bill and Coronation Street. You know the ones.
pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -9/+55what next? white women insisting all black men be arrested because they are afraid of being raped? arresting all white males because they might be serial-killers? arresting all jews because they might steal your money? now allowing east-asians to drive? this is why stereotypes and racial profiling are wrong.
lebel, on 10/12/2007, -10/+50"I overheard this person speaks Arabic! He must be a terrorist! OMG! That one is speaking French! He must be a terrorist sympathiser! That one is black! He must be a drug dealer or worst!"

Ahem. It is sad that our world is coming to that.
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26"coming" to that?
  
  Sorry, it's been there for a long time. It's just hitting the news more often, and people are more likely to get their racism "validated" if the subject of said racism is Muslim or Arabic.
- solarwinds, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Well, the black guy could also be a basketball player too
thushan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7for the aussies:
i wonder if the bunch at Chasers War On Everything would be willing to put this to the test over here?
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Erm.. They already have..
  http://www.digg.com/videos_comedy/Final_Boarding_call_for_Al_Qaeda
- daza, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I thought they did, already? When they dressed up and pretended to be Muslims filming the Sydney Harbour Bridge?
  
  For non Australian's, basically what happened is they tested to see what happens when a Muslim films a bridge, and what happens when an American films the bridge. It took about 17 seconds or so before the Muslim was asked to leave and stop filming, while the American did not get asked at all.
  
  The also "tested" a Government building (either an embassy, or military base of some sort). A Muslim was filming the outside of the building and was promptly asked by security to leave (his defense was he was a tourist and just wanted to take some pictures). The American tried the same, and was welcomed inside the facility so he could get a better look (also pulled the 'touirst filming' excuse).
  
  I loved last episode, with "Terry-Wrist" boarding the plane and "Al-Kayeda". Hillarious.
- echo1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@theone3
  
  lol i just spit out my sandwich watching that
- fatas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They did a skit on sending an guy dressed up with the traditional Arab attire and beard and an annoying American Tourist, to take photos of the Harbour Bridge and then to the Nuclear Power plant. The "security" response to them was vastly differently only proving idiots are everywhere. Osama has won the war he has made the West listen to the idiots among us.
infonote, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15People should take a deep breath and relax. At this rate, transport companies like airlines will soon have to make Muslim only airlines.

Actually it might be a good business plan
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Well, such an airline would be separate, but I'm sure it would also be equal.
  
  /Sarcastic American History reference
unitedkronos, on 10/12/2007, -7/+35I hope that the two men who were thrown off manage to sue the airline company and everybody who objected on that airplane.
yukevster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25Let's face it; this is how terrorism works, and it's working very well for the terrorists because people ARE terrified!
behemothaur, on 10/12/2007, -8/+32It's all ***** *****. The human race should be ashamed of itself for not dismissing the fearmongering for what it is.
M2Ys4U, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Airlines should run special "low-risk" flights where everyone is searched for 20 mins before boarding for the paranoid amongst us and then just have normal security for the rest of us who just want to travel quickly.
- lagged, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Doesn't that just affirm their belief that airline flights are dangerous?
- smithco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would like to see the same policy instituted for buses and subways too.
halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44One of my friends is, in his words, "very Arabic looking." This is a problem for him because he flies a LOT for his job.

He has, however, found an excellent method of avoiding the security delays associated with being an Arabic man flying in the USA.

He carries a travel Bible in his carry on luggage, and keeps it near the top.

Ever since he started doing this, the process of being searched has been the same.

As soon as they find the Bible, they ask him if he's Christian.

He replies that he is, and starts quoting some Bible verses.

After that, they let him through. The search ends, they bundle up his things and send him on his way.
- CopperFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13The brilliant part is that a thousand Christian terrorists could blow up airplanes, office buildings, and national monuments, and people in the United States would still allow the same trick.
  
  These people aren't being extra vigilant with regards to Muslims because of Muslim terrorists, rather they're using the existence of Muslim terrorists to rationalize their prejudices.
- miakeru, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25BREAKING NEWS: Terrorists successfully boarded, hijacked, and blew up British airliner today after being waived through security checkpoints after claiming to be Christians and quoting bible verses during a routine inspection. Early reports speculate that a jackass on popular tech. news site Digg tipped them off to the new strategy.
- CopperFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@miakeru
  
  You've stumbled upon the exact wording the news would use. Terrorists who gave all outward signs of being Christian would never be described as 'Christian', but as 'claiming to be Christian'. This is exactly how this sort of religious prejudice works: discount bad members from your own sect/religion (which is a 'No True Scotsman' fallacy) while generalizing from reports of bad members of other sects/religions (which is a hasty generalization fallacy).
pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28this is the kind of crap that gets sikh gas station employees killed and black men dragged down dirt roads. sorry to keep commenting on this story, but it is just so disgusting.
Beaver6813, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38Its just plain racism and discrimination. You can't just throw someone off a flight because they are a different colour and/or speak a different language!

Kid - "Look mum hes speaking a funny language"
Dad - "He looks like one of those bloody suicide bombers, im not flying with him"
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26Wouldn't it be great if these guys turned out to be Rabbis who were speaking Hebrew?
  
  Better yet, wouldn't be great if a bunch of Rabbis dressed in turbans and other stereotypical "Islamic" clothing and started talking in Hebrew in front of the other travelers?
  
  I can only imagine the news coverage when a bunch of ignorant, terrified Americans or Brits get a bunch of Rabbis thrown off a plane on suspicion of them being "terrorists."
  
  Better yet, have the conversations be about the book of Genesis, and if it's literal or allegory. It would make great press if the Rabbis could say that's what they were discussing just before being tossed off the plane by over zealous security staff.
HanSolo69, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22There is fear out there, and it needs mongering. Or do you hate working American families?
jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Government security harasses, fines, and arrests people.
Now passengers join the act.
And that greedy capitalistic company?
"Monarch arranged for them to spend the rest of the night in an airport hotel and flew them back to Manchester later on Wednesday."

Sounds like a good free-market advertisement to me.
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -23/+4"overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic."

Because they are fluent in Arabic? Britain has the worst language skills in europe and now they claim to be good at Arabic???? Please.

Asian people talk arabic?
- garg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Yes... Arabs are Asians. Please look at a map.
- behemothaur, on 10/12/2007, -14/+3Umm - look at a map - to classify everyone from Middle-Eastern to Indian to Polynesians as "Asian" is ridiculous. Get a passport.
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17When do we get black and white lines at the bus stops, black and white seating only?

This worked well in South Africa.
- CopperFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Well, of course! Don't you know that black men are all rapists? I saw it on the news and in the newspapers! I'm not sitting next to a man who looks just like that one rapist, speaking that same language that that one rapist spoke! I refuse to let this bus move until these men are moved to the back of the bus! If this bus takes off with this darkie right next to me, I will scream bloody murder that the bus industry is not doing enough to protect its passengers, and believe me, the media will pick up on THAT.
  
  What's that? You think I'm being a racist *****? Well, you're just a liberal moonbat who likes to complain: if I didn't do this to protect myself and got raped, you'd just bitch about lax bus security.
  
  /fearful retard
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3It's not race, my friend--It's religion. Why don't you peruse the Koran and see how many quotes you can find that are tolerant of other faiths.
  
  It amazes me that people don't bother to read the Koran. It seems as though there are quite a few Muslims that read it as literally as I do AND ACT ON IT.
- stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Im as interested in the Koran as I am in the Bible. Ie., Not one bit so save your religious crap.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1@ stinknugget
  
  if only libs like you had the same attitude towards muslim terrorists.
- stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Here we have a prime example of a sheep Bleeet bleeeet.
- Hellsadvocate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3DCMacHead:
  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1986014567979609861
  
  So is the bible. Read your history about the Crusades, stop being an ignorant prick.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ Hellsadvocate
  
  I could give a ***** less about religion or the Crusades (your argument must suck balls to have to go back to the Crusades) because 1) I'm agnostic and 2) I wasn't a part of the Crusades.
  
  I have a very low tolerance for religious people who beat me over the head with their "holy book" or threaten my well-being. Go read the Koran cover to cover, then we can chat. It seems as though tens of thosands of Muslims read the Koran as literally as I do and act on it.
mglsanchez, on 10/12/2007, -26/+5The government doesn't have enough balls to take care of this kind of stuff, so we are left to our own.

Racial profiling works, losers.....
GloomyYardGnome, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5What happened to British sensibility? The peiople tihis plane sound like they're from a middle of nowhere midwestern town, or similar place where racial descrimnation is tolerated or accepted. Notice how they tried to play off the "terrorists" as being scruffy and suspicious looking while both of them actually suspected just because the spoke another language and weren't white. Hell, these stupid bigots can't even tell the different between asians and arabs. Is this day and age, different is dangerous, and unless people worldwide become more tolerant and open minded, they will be the ones who are causing problems, not the terrorists.
garg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Ah.. this is interesting.

I just happen to be from a Muslim family, I look a bit Arab (though I'm not), and I'm an American. So when I fly abroad I'll have to stay out of the sun, carry a Bible, and have a Canadian Sticker on my Luggage.
- beotch, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Now that Canada has gone on the offense in Afghanistan that sticker won't be worth too much. Also, according to Bush, the terrorists get group hugs in Canada.
Qtip42, on 10/12/2007, -20/+7Wow can that article get any thinner of a column? The entire page is blank just a little ways down cept for this tiny column.

And to be honest, I would have gotten off the plane also. Why would I trust airport security if they failed in the past? Maybe those kind of people who look like "terrorists" should be wary of the fact that people will profile them and appear clean cut and speak in english.

I mean you could say anything in a foreign language and people might misinterpret it so it's best just to speak whatever the native language is to blend in. You might be telling your friend, "so I was doing this chick from behind and I was all like JIHAD JIHAD BLALALALALALA!" and the only thing people hear around you is "I'm gonna blow up the plane!"

In short, quite bitching about discrimination. It's going to happen because we're in a time where terrorism is the hot topic. If you happen to be a shady looking fellow, maybe clean up your image a bit.

I don't know about you guys but I get off the plane if the person next to me smells or is fat. :D
- thejokell, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"Maybe those kind of people who look like "terrorists" should be wary of the fact that people will profile them and appear clean cut and speak in english."
  
  You mean like the September 11th hijackers?
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7So, British holiday makers, who dont even know diddly ***** about languages as Britain has the worst 2nd language track record in Europe they cant even talk French or Spanish much and they claim to now be able to OVERHEAR Arabic????? Please, this is total hogwash.
Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Hmm. In which year will we get "racial flights"? So only white travel with white people. That should make things easier, not having to be disturbed by possibly muslim terrorists. ***** Arabs with Bombs on a Plane! Not to mention black people who can't even swim. :-p

Seriously, this is getting out of hand and some of the past week's stories here have been quite disturbing...
- Qtip42, on 10/12/2007, -16/+1The black people who can't swim comment was taken out of context and people overreact screaming racist! racist! God people cry a lot over small *****.
- NinjAlt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4You mean white CHRISTIAN people. Because even us athiest or agnostic people are discriminated against.
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -10/+2Seriously Im going to grow a damn large beard and then I can get put up in hotels and order room service as they would be so scared ***** that I would sue for discrimination they would sprinkle my feet with rose petals as I walk to the hotel.
riverside71, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11hahaha a public falling hook line and sinker.. the adminstrations of the world have the sheeple exactly where they want them..

and then some wonder how the Germans could have let a systematic targeting of a people happen.. u don't have to look far.. look in the mirror and at those wanting others off a plane so they can feel secure.. maybe all of Germany felt a little 'secure' when they had the bad Commies in concentration caps..
bilbus, on 10/12/2007, -23/+3Damn right

All they need to do now is start deporting these ppl.

One day the EU will wake up and figure out that these people want to kill them. When the gloves come off things will change for the better. Hopefuly before the UK and france are renamed xxxstan
- superdigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12stop trying to get a rise out of people, please.
- joshafina, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@bilbus
  
  No
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4The couple on the newspage photo, really I would be humuliated to have my picture next to an article like thet. Im sure they will role play and act like drama queens as to how threatened they where blah blah Quick, get them on the list for contacts for translators at the immigration office as theyre fluent in Arabic, man talk about making a spectacle of themselves. Public humiliation.

Everybody wear sweaters and jackets in summer and sit mumbling looking at paper with a large beard. You will get the royal treatment as fellow brittish sheeply are ***** scared :)
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Mutany!!! Make them walk the plank!

Reallky, this is only going to encourage more people and flights to be have Mutanies. Mutany on a ship is still illegal isnt it? What about airplanes :)

Expect more Mutanies.
robbclark, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Racism at its finest.

What the hell is wrong with people?
- Qtip42, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6Nothing is wrong with people. It's simply people looking out for their best interests (and their children's best interest). Racism happens everyday, it's just not plainly obvious. Get used to it.
- robbclark, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11So, using your logic....
  
  The numbers on arrests and incarcerations for violent crimes in US show that African American people by far are in jail for a disproportionate amount of these crimes.
  
  So is it in my best interest to find all the African Americans in my town, round them up and have them removed? Same thing.
- Qtip42, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2It would be in your best interest to move if that's the case.
  
  People have control over a plane because they paid for the ticket, they don't have control over a town and it's inhabitants.
whackaxe, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2If I were them, IT would be lawsuit time. Groups paranoia at its best. or worst depending on how you look at it
bilbus, on 10/12/2007, -17/+7I would perfer to be called a racist then blow up at 30k feet ... thanks

The man should have asked for security to board plane and asked to be checked again. When you are a member of a ethnic group that is causing world terror you should expect such treatment
- Discourses, on 10/12/2007, -14/+6Finally, someone with some balls. Not like the rest these "oh my god everything is racist!!!!" phonies. "We're all part of the human race!!!" Ohhhhh please you phonies. "Look how non-racist I am!" "I have Arab friends!"
- robbclark, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1wrong spot
cocoamix, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19I can't believe that family posed for a picture for the article.
What, they are PROUD of the fact that they acted like scared, ignorant children?
kered, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Instinctual reactions to stimuli previously associated with danger is normal. From that stems stereotyping. Stereotyping is brain shorthand used when humans have to make quick assessments. Then you should move on to a more detailed analysis based on evaluating evidence.......that's what separates intelligent humans from the herd. This secondary analytical process is what you disdainfully call "political correctness".
- captaineuphoria, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Actually it's called 'being rational'.
stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Im glad I have other passports and not just a British one.
YixilTesiphon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Ah yes, the tolerant and progressive Europeans.
- Discourses, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Some of the most tolerant and progressive people on Earth seem to be Europeans and Americans, as you can see from the open borders, democratic government etc. Unlike nations like Saudi Arabia and China for example, some of the most xenophobic and racist countries on Earth. Leave your criticism for them.
RockVJ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8This is shocking. I am a second generation Indian from Northern Ireland with a Christian background (Christianity, 2% of the population or less, in India is even stronger and more godfearing than I have ever seen in the West)...as far as I, and everyone who knows me is concerned, I am the exact same as all my white friends except the colour of my skin. I drink, eat pork...I only speak English! (bar GCSE French- B grade!) To think that this is the sole reason that British people were in fear fills me with anger. I was always under the assumption that the British were more intelligent and nowhere as naive, ignorant and racially motivated as citizens from other countries such as America...it saddens me that this is no longer the case. Occurances such as this will only increase popularity for the BNP and other racially motivated political parties...
- stinknugget, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You are better off in Northern Ireland, more inward investment, people are more down to earth and open than in mainland UK. Northern Ireland isnt full of Sheeple.
- Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Northern Ireland has quite a few reactionary, racist bigots actually. Although quite a lot of their time is taken up hating people who look the same as them but were born into a slightly different team of God- Botherers.
beotch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4The people complaining should have been thrown off the plane. If it was later found that they did this before, they should then be bitch-slapped and have their luggage destroyed.
dvfreelancer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Okay, let's put the shoe on the other foot and think about this. Let's say you faithful Digg readers were kicked off a flight because people on the plane were scared of radical Christian extremists and you looked like them and were speaking English? Even though you probably don't even know any Christian extremists, perhaps you saw a Discovery Channel special one time but that's as close as you've gotten. In fact, you think most Christian extremists are loonie, on a par with Jim Jones, yet people are afraid of you. You'd think that was not only grossly unfair but borderline insane. But that's how our behavior is viewed by lot of people on the other side of our bigotry.

Almost 1/3 of the planet is Muslim. If we don't get smart and start making friends among that fraction of the population, start learning how to distinguish friend from foe, then extremist organizations are going to continue scoring political points by trumpeting that the US and allies are anti-Muslim. So far we haven't done a lot to dispel that image.

Here's another reality...we don't have the military might or budget to go it alone. The Israelis just got a rude awakening in Lebanon. Their formerly unbeatable army got stood up at least twice and couldn't completely stop the rocket attacks. They trashed Lebanon but Hezbollah came out looking like heroes.

Our mid-east policy is on a trajectory of failure and we're not as mighty as we seem to have it in our collective heads that we are.
kevenj, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Is this Jo Schofield (one of the passengers) at the University of Leeds?
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/decision-research/people/schofield.htm

I won't be sending my children to the University of Leeds. Any school that would employ such a small-minded bigot can't be good for anyone.

I'll also be sending Monarch Airlines a note suggesting I won't be patronizing their airline, ever.
http://www.flymonarch.com/cnt/contactus/index.asp?source=general&eSb=scheduled%20post-flight%20complaints
- jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2"I'll also be sending Monarch Airlines a note suggesting I won't be patronizing their airline, ever."
  Why blame Monarch? The passengers caused the problem. The government security didn't solve it. From what little was in the article it seems Monarch just made the best they could out of a bad situation.
  "Monarch arranged for them to spend the rest of the night in an airport hotel and flew them back to Manchester later on Wednesday."
- covertbadger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"I'll also be sending Monarch Airlines a note suggesting I won't be patronizing their airline, ever."
  
  I too have done this. I recommend all digg users in the UK who are disgusted by this story to do the same.
- covertbadger, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@jeffiek
  
  "Why blame Monarch? The passengers caused the problem. "
  
  Because Monarch caved in a most cowardly way. If passengers walked off the plane, Monarch should have left them in the airport to sort out their own alternative travel arrangements, not send on the rent-a-cops to escort two innocent men off the plane.
- CopperFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@jeffiek
  
  Monarch Airlines was the entity that capitulated to these racists. What they should have done is kicked the complainers off without refund, and flown the rest as planned.
- jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@covertbadger,CopperFalcon
  
  Valid points. I sure would've liked for someone to stand up for those guys. Maybe your ideas would have worked. But I wasn't there, so I don't know how well it would have gone over. I'm just pointing out that they didn't start the problem.
  The passengers were the immediate cause, acting with mob emotions fanned by fear mongering. How about a little more criticism of the causes and a little less for a "second best" solution?
- covertbadger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@jeffiek
  
  You are right that the passengers deserve the bulk of the blame; I think it goes without saying that these ignorant racist bigots should be condemned. However, Monarch are not innocent victims in this, and I can express my disgust directly to Monarch and vote with my wallet; unfortunately I have no such recourse with the aforementioned agitators. Monarch had an opportunity to be a voice of reason in this climate of madness, and do a great deal to help repair relations with the many many honest and hard-working Muslims in the UK; instead, they have simply pandered to the lowest-common-denominator of fear, uncertainty, and doubt. They come out of this with no dignity whatsoever, and damn straight I think people should refuse to use them - the only way to hurt businesses is by hitting them in the pocket.
alrahman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6This is plain disgusting. So now any person that speaks Arabic is a terrorist. Rasicm at its worst form.
- tarzidil, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5For a small dose of Christian extremists try googling abortion clinic bombings or KKK. This crap about only Muslims being terrorists won’t work on anyone that is literate and willing to read something other than propaganda. History is replete with Christian terrorists. EVERY religion has extremists in it, it has less to do with the religion and more to do with human beings twisting a faith to their own agenda.
- tarzidil, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Sorry, my reply was for the post below this one, I clicked the wrong reply on accident.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ tarzidil
  
  At your suggestion, I went to prochoice.org and I found the abortion clinic violence stats that they tabulate. Here's what I came up with, stat-wise for 2006 year-to-date from the guys that are the "lobbyists" for abortion clinics:
  
  Murders: 0
  Bombings: 0
  Arson: 0
  Assaults: 6
  
  Here's a link to stats from prochoice.org:
  http://www.prochoice.org/pubs_research/publications/downloads/about_abortion/violence_statistics.pdf
  
  Now, let's move onto terrorism in the name of Islam from March 2006 to present (not even a full year):
  
  Country Killed Injured
  Grand Total 5410 8738
  Afghanistan 298 384
  Algeria 84 40
  Chad 118 0
  Chechnya 29 32
  Dagestan 6 9
  Egypt 20 65
  Ethiopia 7 53
  India 437 1264
  Ingushetia 21 17
  Iran 13 0
  Iraq 3312 4894
  Israel 83 697
  Italy 1 0
  Jordan 2 0
  Kabardino-Balk. 1 0
  Kenya 1 2
  Kosovo 1 2
  Kyrgyzstan 7 6
  Nigeria 4 30
  Pakistan 243 295
  Pal. Auth. 12 11
  Philippines 40 58
  Russia 1 0
  Somalia 490 722
  Sudan 50 16
  Syria 1 0
  Tajikistan 1 0
  Thailand 115 109
  Turkey 2 4
  USA 2 10
  Yemen 8 18
  
  These statistics speak for themselves. You can read up on them in detail here:
  
  http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
- tarzidil, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0@ DC MacHead
  
  I was talking history and extremism in religion not about current statistics. Of course there are more terrorist killings, they are trying to over throw Governments and/or strike back at people whose government they see as hostile to them whereas the Christian extremists I used as an example were trying to promote an ideology without being oppressed at the time. When a group of people are or perceive themselves to be oppressed they will acquire a higher body count in their attacks because they are waging war (common sense is a wonderful thing). The Muslim extremists are using terrorism as a guerrilla war tactic against the civilians and militaries of the governments that are hostile to them. We are human beings, ALL OF US, and we fight wars because of land, food, and power or the threat of having those taken away. Once everyone realizes this we can end terrorism on the scale it has reached by solving the underlying problem instead of just blindly fighting people on the bs premise that they hate our values.
  
  My point in the original post was that ALL religions have extremists and not all terrorists are Muslim. Spanish Inquisition racked up a pretty good body count and that fits the definition of terrorism. At the risk of repeating myself, history is replete with examples of terrorists from varying backgrounds, beliefs and countries. If you don’t believe me, crack open a history book.
- DCMacHead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ tardzilla
  
  You got smacked down by the facts. Love the neutered, "but...but...I'm talking about when dinosaurs ruled the earth" comeback.
- tarzidil, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@ DCMacHead
  
  No dumbass, I was explaining to you why I said what I said about extremists. How many people does someone have to kill in you little world before it is considered extreme? Oh he just killed two people with that bomb at the abortion clinic in the name of God, we can over look it. It happened 9 years ago so it doesn’t count. WTF kind of person are you? ANY death in the name of a creator is an act of extremism in any intelligent persons mind. When the problem is solved that the Muslim extremists are up in arms about there will be others, of differing faiths, doing the same thing to make their point.
  
  This is the last post I will make here with you because I know I can’t win an argument with an idiot. Try thinking in a larger perspective than what is in front of your face and what you are spoon fed to think and maybe you will learn something.
bilbus, on 10/12/2007, -14/+4Christian extremists like?

Wait there are none .. that funny

Timothy Mcvay renounced Christianity ... nice try please come again
P5ycHo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Atheism rulez
bilbus, on 10/12/2007, -23/+4When the Muslims are cutting your neck, be sure to tell him how much you respect his religion. No I'm not going to capitalize "islam" it does not deserve it
- captaineuphoria, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Wait, so 'Islam' doesn't deserve to be capitalized, but 'Muslim' does?
  
  What are you, an idiot?
- CopperFalcon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@captaineuphoria
  
  Just check billbus' prior comments. He's nothing more than a racist troll trying to get a rise out of people.
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Mutiny on Flight 613

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