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Meth Lab found at largest kosher meat plant

jta.org — Federal authorities charged that a methamphetamine laboratory was operating at the nation's largest kosher slaughterhouse and that employees carried weapons to work.

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  • yellowcakewalk, on 05/15/2008, -7/+164I'll bet the employees could work really, really fast.
    • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -3/+30For five to seven days nonstop without a break, too.
      • TheChauvinist, on 05/15/2008, -3/+40well, they have to stop on Saturday. Shabat Shalom!
        • RealmDown, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5God can probably handle the upped prayer speed.
        • FearNLoathing, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5I wonder if they roll on Shabbos...
      • austin006, on 05/15/2008, -2/+12and of course they need the occasional smoke/snort/shoot break. union regulations. one every 12 hours!
        • cawpin, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3I really wonder why the "and that employees carried weapons to work" was included in the headline and article. That isn't illegal. Your employer can tell you not to do it but it isn't against any law if the employer allows it.
        • weephar, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3I think in most states it is illegal.
        • durant0s, on 05/15/2008, -1/+21 every 12 hours? What about monkeys that bring it to them every 12 minutes. Now thats getting ***** done.
    • nullx42, on 05/15/2008, -2/+35meth is kosher
      • steppinrazor, on 05/15/2008, -2/+10Kosher meth burns smoother, tastes better and lasts longer! Kosher meth, now with three to four days more awake time! You know it's kosher when your teeth fall out on the first hit!
    • Jess2mix, on 05/15/2008, -8/+13Yeah. Here's some footage of a kosher beef slaughterhouse.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHTUq90RDIQ
      Notice the inhumane process of slitting the throat and ripping the trachea from the cow. Those workers must enjoy doing that all day while smoking meth on their smoke breaks.
      • Tyr7BE, on 05/15/2008, -3/+13Great, now I have a craving for steak.
      • Black6x, on 05/15/2008, -5/+15That method of killing an animal is required due to their religious belief. Any screams that this should be stopped only brands you as intolerant of their religious beliefs.
        • gamabunta, on 05/15/2008, -2/+4makom shechitah
        • Couchy, on 05/15/2008, -3/+9My religion requires me to ***** your grandmother, any screams that this should be stopped only brands you as intolerant of my religious beliefs.
          • Black6x, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1However, if my beliefs require me to defend people from harm, we would be in conflict, and may spark a religious war. If we turn to constitutional protections of "life, liberty, and persuit of happiness," you have to understand that those items are protected so long as your persuit of happiness does not directly infringe on those of someone else, such as in competing businesses.

            Now, if my grandmother wanted you, that's her choice, Granny-*****.
        • Eezyville, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Grandmothers....ewww!
      • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -5/+6Eh. Meat cruelty doesn't bother me.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Eh. Cruelty to animal abusers doesn't bother me.
        • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1@ET: So, you value animal life over human life then?

          *sigh* the dangers of dogmatic ideology.
      • JaLooNz, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5Should have posted a warning along with the video.
      • Viend, on 05/15/2008, -3/+4Did you know if done properly, they die instantly, thus producing no pain whatsoever? No I didn't think so.
        • Couchy, on 05/15/2008, -4/+6Did you know if you watch that youtube link posted in the comment you replied to, you see a cow holocaust? No I didnt think so.
          • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Liberate Cowschwitz!
            Liberate Bovine-Belsen!
    • Fixthemedia, on 05/15/2008, -2/+6Holy smokes!
    • MadHarvey, on 05/15/2008, -3/+3They make them work naked, so they can't steal any Meth. Its like that scene from American Gangster, except alot more hairy.....

      I am in Cedar Rapids (two hours away), but if the wind is just right, you can hear the rhythms of ancient Jewish hymns to the north. I am told the percussion is in fact their "junk" slapping against their "bellies." They do this to keep the production line working in unison--like the old chain gangs. It is especially loud after a Meth Break.
    • corbettkroehler, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3It gives the term productivity new meaning, doesn't it!
    • OwdenBowden, on 05/15/2008, -1/+4Why is this meth different than all other meth?
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1It's blessed by illegal Canadian rabbis. And a cut of the profits goes to support the Ziontologist Entity.
    • AlaskaLoneWolf, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1Wonder what the packaging would look like for their "products".
  • LewP, on 05/15/2008, -4/+88Why do I think there are tons of jokes to this story?
    • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -26/+36Because you haven't yet heard what the animals involved suffered as they died?
      December 3, 2004

      "USDA LAUNCHES CRUELTY INVESTIGATION AS ORTHODOX UNION & CHIEF RABBINATE OF ISRAEL ADMIT “INHUMANE” & “NOT KOSHER” PRACTICES AT OU & ISRAELI-APPROVED PLANT - standard practice at Agriprocessors includes shocking animals in the face with electric prods, ripping their tracheas and esophagi out of the throats within 5 seconds, and dumping them from the restraint, at which point some struggle to stand, bellow in agony, and attempt to flee, with the tracheas and esophagi hanging from their throats" http://yourmoralleader.blogspot.com/2004/12/peta-v ...

      "The Broader Context - What does it mean that such misery could go on for years in a facility that was doubly inspected by the USDA and religious authorities?" http://www.jewishveg.com/media11.html
      • ad33lshahid, on 05/15/2008, -10/+16it could be worse ---- they could have been palestinians
        • yellowcakewalk, on 05/15/2008, -4/+10Then at least it would have made it to the lamestream media.
      • Tyrghast, on 05/15/2008, -20/+15***** off, PETA.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1I dugg you up for the South Park ref.
      • spence1818, on 05/15/2008, -3/+21...why are people digging him down? yes it's sick, but it's true. Have some respect you ass don't tell him to ***** off for telling the real facts.
        • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -5/+5Most of us are already aware of how our meat gets to us. We just don't really care that much.
          • jamdogg, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Ignorance is bliss till it bites you in the ass.
          • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Is there any level of animal suffering that would make you blink an eye?
            Or are you an autistic sociopath without empathy for other living things, even sentient mammals such as gentle motherly cows and noble protective bulls?
        • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1ET: I don't cry for food; I eat it. And if you think cows are sentient, you should maybe hang out with a few. For their size, they are quite possibly the stupidest creatures on earth.

          jamdogg: Not ignorance; apathy towards food animals. Big difference.

          Overall: PeTA's been on this tack for the last thirty-odd years. I can't believe there's an American at this point who hasn't watched one of the random slaughterhouse videos out there. Hell, my experience is a vegan ex girlfriend; learned to cook for her, read all her literature, etc.

          I also watched her ravenously consume several meat burgers in a sitting whenever the trace element deficiencies that vegans love to ignore demanded it. You've no idea how painful it is to watch the ideology of someone you care about slowly drain the life out of them.

          If you want to develop some new form of protein supplement that can supplant beef, you're free to attack the market with it. Meanwhile, stop being a mindless ideologue; it's embarrssing.
        • StaticThunder, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3I care. I want my food treated humanely. I feel betrayed when some company with a friendly face towards me, the customer, does horrific things.

          Just because big food animals are stupid, well, if you accept that entitles you to be cruel towards them, then you generally have to accept that I can be as cruel as I want to demented humans as well.

          If I were a stupid large meat-animal (no jokes now), I wouldn't be capable of worrying about you killing me - I might not be upset that I'm going to be eaten since I would be unaware of those unfortunate facts, especially if you ended my life humanely, but I'm sure I would still be capable of feeling pain and fear if you did it haphazardly with no concern.

          I don't want to be responsible for things feeling pain and fear. I disagree with PETA, but I'm not about to say that the opposite is the way it should be, that we can be as cruel and inflict as much pain as we want because animals deserve it. PETA has a point. They're wrong in their conclusions, but they have a point.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3F: You seem like a really rational person, so I wonder how you can deny the inner emotional lives of your fellow mammals. They're not automatons or robots made of meat.
          They have complex brains with emotional centers. The science says they suffer, as does common sense. Is it denial or autism that's your malfunction here?

          And please, name these trace elements. Are you talking about iron/zinc, or some mysterious Vitamin Beef? How do the world's billions of economic vegans, who can't afford burgers like your self indulgent trendy ex-gf whose never heard of supplements, manage to live without them?
    • BossKey, on 05/15/2008, -1/+10Gefilte is a hell of a drug
    • amhbre, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0because there are alottt;]
  • 911ArtStudent, on 05/15/2008, -9/+59I sure hope the methamphetamines carried the kosher label:
    http://kosherfood.about.com/od/guidetokosherfoodla ...
  • 911ArtStudent, on 05/15/2008, -15/+59Fascinating book on this topic: Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America

    From the Amazon.com Review:
    "Amazon.com
    Postville, Iowa (population 1,478), seems an unlikely place to find a sizable Jewish population, let alone an ultra-Orthodox Lubavitcher population. It is, after all, in the heart of pork country, and the world headquarters of the Lubavitchers is far away in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. But when the Hygrade meat processing plant, just outside Postville, went belly-up, threatening the town with decline, Sholom Rubashkin bought it and turned it into a glatt kosher processing plant, complete with shochtim and a rabbinical inspectorate. By the late 1980s, "Postville had more rabbis per capita than any other city in the United States, perhaps the world."

    The enterprise was a huge international success, with its kosher meats exported even to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. The Jewish population grew to 150, and they were rich. The town was saved, and the people were grateful. All's well that ends well? Not quite. The Hasidim kept to themselves, did things their own way, and basically had no interest in integrating into Postville. And why would they? Their laws are strict, their mission clear, their community defined by race and religion. They are not interested in watermelon socials or coffee klatches at the diner. Their little boys do not swim with their little girls, are not educated together, and do not go on play dates with goyim. Small-town Iowans, on the other hand, are very friendly. They know each other's news, they support each other's businesses, they wish each other Merry Christmas, they want you to feel at home. They don't like that the new townspeople stomp up the street hunched over, talking in a foreign language and looking straight through them when greeted. They really don't like it when one of the newcomers drives around town with a 10-foot candelabra strapped to his car playing music at full volume for eight consecutive winter nights. They don't actually know about menorahs or Hanukkah.

    Into this comes secular Jew Stephen Bloom, a professor at the University of Iowa. By the time he arrived in Postville, the town was riven along religious lines. One of the townspeople was running for mayor on the sole platform of annexation of the land on which the plant stood. Rubashkin was threatening that he'd shut the plant and leave if that came to pass. Bloom closely considers both sides, and the result is a wonderful book. It is a fascinating tale of culture clash in the American heartland: the John Deere cap meets the black fur hat. It is a book about identity and community and what it means to be American. It covers all the things you aren't supposed to talk about at the dinner table--religion, politics, and even sex. It is full of suspense: Will the plant be annexed? Will the Jews leave? And it is also Bloom's exploration of his own sense of belonging. --J. Riches --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

    From Publishers Weekly
    Bloom's account of a vicious clash between the residents of a small, intensely Christian town and the group of Lubavitcher Jews who open a highly successful kosher slaughterhouse there is a model of sociological reportage and personal journalism. In 1987, after a Hasidic butcher from Brooklyn bought a slaughterhouse in Postville, Iowa, and began to relocate Jewish and immigrant workers to the area, the town began to change. While some residents were suspicious and anti-Semitic, most were happy to see the town rise above its previous financial destitution. But the Lubavitchers, who traditionally live and work within their own closely knit communities, were not interested in fitting into Postville, and many were dismissive of, or overtly hostile to, its original citizens. After the Lubavitchers started buying real estate and exerting greater influence on the town's finances, longtime Postville residents began to feel marginalized, yet their reactions caused the Jews to become more isolationist. The slaughterhouse also caused problems: workers were paid below minimum wage and were uninsured, women workers were sexually harassed and fighting among the (often illegal) immigrant workers escalated. Finally, the town took legal action to gain more control over the slaughterhouse. Bloom, a professor at the University of Iowa, writes cleanly and with great insight and temperance about these events. As a secular Jew, he also weaves in his own story as he tries to find some common ground with the Lubavitchers. His book proves an illuminating meditation on contemporary U.S. culture and what it means to be an American. Agents, David Black and Gary Morris. BOMC and QPB selection; 8-city tour. (Oct.)"
    http://www.amazon.com/Postville-Clash-Cultures-Hea ...

    • yellowcakewalk, on 05/15/2008, -5/+21Excellent find, 911Art! Thanks.
    • bluedostoevsky, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8i live in cedar rapids iowa and i read that book recently. it's pretty interesting but it makes me feel pretty small time. i have to say, i don't feel bad that the plant had a bust for the most part.
    • adith, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3The book is only tangentially related to the subject of this article. The book is, as the reviews suggest, about the clash between the Hasidim in Postville and the local (Christian) townspeople. The factory is a major element in the story, but that's not the whole point. Although there's a chapter about immigrants (of dubious legal status) at the factory, that's the farthest the author goes in talking about the dirty laundry of the factory. Sorry, nothing about meth labs.
      • PlagueOfMorons, on 05/15/2008, -1/+6I beg to differ. The article covers one visible criminal event. There are many others worth knowing of. The book is in part documentation of the utter disregard of American law by the Rubashkins, as well as their complete resistance to the moral law of the community they took over. All their actions over time show an ongoing choice of illegality. Allowing meth in their plant aligns with all the other lawbreaking there. The book is only the start of opening their can of worms, but sets a valuable perspective. A little web searching on the Rubashkins will show some of the legal entanglements not covered in the book. These people are a genuine blot on the face of honest Jewish citizens.
  • DigitalBob, on 05/15/2008, -6/+67Talk about your fast food! Maybe the DEA just "passed over" this one for a long time. He-heh.

    The funny part is the illegal alien rabbis, smuggled in from Canada! Something isn't kosher.
    • BearinG, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2"They included rabbis responsible for kosher supervision, who the source believed entered the United States from Canada without proper immigration documents. The source did not provide evidence for his suspicion about the rabbis."
  • debunkthelies, on 05/15/2008, -4/+67Last year a meth lab was discovered in a Sonic Drive in in Show Low, Arizona. Law enforcement is so good ferreting these labs out, that they discovered it because it exploded.
    • Dested, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Valley of the spun.
    • 9bpm9, on 05/15/2008, -1/+7Yeah, because cops just roll around looking for meth labs constantly. They go by reports from citizens, and if someone going through the drive through couldn't tell, then they're the ***** idiots.
  • USNavyBlue, on 05/15/2008, -41/+36Again, the MSM just is not reporting on this outrage. Gee, I wonder why? Auh but the Kosher or not so Kosher ones can't seem to figure out why they haven been literally kicked out of 78 (approx.) countries thought history - maybe treating people (even through the people are illegal aliens, which NO ONE deserves to be treated that way, just round them up and deport illegal aliens, but do not abuse them) inhumanly is why? You think.

    And the "self chosen" ones call us anti-Semites, racists, bigots, neo Nazi's, etc?! Whats up with that? :)

    John 8:44
    • yflicker, on 05/15/2008, -12/+9dude, chill out. that comment came out of nowhere
      • HappyScrappy, on 05/15/2008, -10/+8Seriously. Ever time I make an iffy generalization or a joke I wonder if maybe I'm racist. Then I see the real chumps like this.

        If you take any unrelated opportunity to spout off about a race or creed, you might be a racist.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2unrelated? did you miss this quote from the book?

          "Lubavitchers, who traditionally live and work within their own closely knit communities, were not interested in fitting into Postville, and many were dismissive of, or overtly hostile to, its original citizens."
        • HappyScrappy, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1And then you talk about kicking Jews out of countries. 78 worldwide apparently.

          Unrelated. You're just looking for an excuse to get your racist views out.
    • erikmarcus, on 05/15/2008, -7/+5>they haven been literally kicked out of 78 (approx.) countries thought history

      Were you including Nazi Germany and Nazi-occupied countries like Norway and Poland in this tally? Why, or why not?

      Just trying to help you make your disgusting and idiotic point.
    • elipabst, on 05/15/2008, -9/+6Psst..hey, this may be a shocker to you, but Jesus was a Jew.
      • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -2/+6I always thought he was the first christian. A revolutionary of sorts.
        • h3lx, on 05/15/2008, -3/+3Nope, he was Jew. The whole rebel thing came a little later.
    • BN2L, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1Not sure why i'm replying to such an idiotic comment. Its certainly not just jews that treat illegal immigrants badly or people inhumanley. 'Kicked out' is a massive understatement, of the 7.5 million jews in Nazi occupied Europe only 20% were alive in 1945. The reason was nothing to do with treating people inhumanly they were deemed racially impure.
      You're too ill informed to be anti-semetic.

  • AlwaysAwake, on 05/15/2008, -9/+24Beezness is beezness. Wonder whose toes they were stepping on, that were protected by The Feds ?
  • MrColdheart, on 05/15/2008, -5/+45Can you imagine the tension in there break room during lunch time?
    • yellowcakewalk, on 05/15/2008, -2/+43People on meth don't take lunch breaks.
    • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8Especially if one of the townies brought a ham sandwich.
    • Evacide, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2For the love of FSM, it's "their"
  • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -31/+42Not surprising, since Israel is the ecstasy mecca of the entire world, and is one of the largest drug trafficing centers in the world, with many Israelis regularly arrested all over the world including in America for felony drug offenses. The Israeli mafia needs some kind of method to make money!
    • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -14/+35They transport the ecstasy in full religious garb because the feds don't think "orthodox holy men" would be running dope.
      • RationalXubrnce, on 05/15/2008, -8/+23 I don't know why you're getting dugg down as that is 100% true.
        • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -4/+9You can lead a horse to water... What can you do?
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2I include links to sources. It seems to soothe the emotional reaction so many are programmed to have regarding touchy topics.
      • tightscrummy, on 05/15/2008, -4/+7Why not? It works with the blood diamonds too.
    • fuzzywzhe, on 07/03/2008, -0/+1Hey, you got to get money somehow to install an ethnically pure, hopelessly racist state like Israel.
  • n0gnuz, on 05/15/2008, -11/+30How much would it cost to get the meth lab in the trunk of my car certified Kosher, so I can sell down at Hebrew Union College in Cincy? I need to expand my market to include the Mercedes and BMW kids.
    • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -4/+11They don't take it, they just make it and sell it.
    • aebo06, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2The HUC is an institute of Reform Judaism, and Reform Jews aren't required to keep Kosher, or Shabbos or anything like that.
  • bstory, on 05/15/2008, -13/+18I find this one hard to believe
    • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -6/+17if the Jewish Telegraph Agency (JTA) reports it, and the US media ignores it, then we all know it's true.
      Incredulity isn't going to help these disgusting monsters in court.
      Put them in a cell with Michael Vick. Or better yet, in a cage with Vicks' most vicious Rottweiler.
    • MrColdheart, on 05/15/2008, -3/+6lol famous last words.
    • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -8/+6For good reason. The Meth part of the story was merely an accusation, there was an alleged discovery of a "meth lab" by a former employee, the same employee which blew the lid on the illegal immigrant operation. For all we know, she just saw someone smoking pot. The details are very unclear, but what is clear is that the DEA did not find any sort of "meth lab" in their raid.
      http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/18875764.html
      • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -2/+7Yes this is the tenth time you've posted your idiotic dismissal of the obvious. Bury the article as inaccurate and STFU.

        On Tuesday, members of the Conservative movement's Hekhsher Tzedek Commission condemned the company, saying that keeping kosher requires more than just adherence to ritual matters, but also sensitivity to the environment and respect for workers and animals. The Hekhsher Tzedek initiative is in part a response to past allegations of misconduct at Agriprocessors.

        "The actions of this company have brought shame upon the entire Jewish community," the commission said. "Yesterday’s discovery, along with the other violations of the ethical standards set forth by our Torah and our tradition underscore the need for Hekhsher Tzedek. To be sure, halacha has never limited its concern to the ritual elements of kashrut alone."
        • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1Why should you care? I did bury the article as inaccurate, but that is only half the battle. All my other responses (4, not 10) were replies, not comments. If you can't figure out why I would do that, I'll spell it out for you. People are being misled. I don't want people to be misled or ill-informed. As per why I would do it 4 times- because they are all replies! Very few people will read them, and they don't troll around the entire forum disrupting everything.
    • krnldmp, on 05/15/2008, -7/+6Right up there with priest's pricks in little boys.
  • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -48/+51The cruelty of these primitive, death worshiping, clannish cave people is well known in animal-rights circles.

    AgriProcessors were "ripping the tracheas and esophagi out of fully conscious animals, dumping them out of pens into pools of their own blood. The animals stand and bellow and attempt to escape for up to three and even four minutes in some cases.... Jewish law forbids stunning them first." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140117,00.html

    Too bad you have to suffer such horrors, Mr. Cow. But it's the will of JHVH. At least you're not treated like a Palestinian. Try to relax as we dismember your still living body, and smuggle methamphetamine around the country using your corpse. It's for the good of Israel, and therefore justified.
    • vandernderyid, on 05/15/2008, -25/+12"death worshiping, clannish cave people"

      Eat a dick, Titus. The Roman Empire fell, but we're still around, *****.
      • Ebulating, on 05/15/2008, -2/+9Well, 'clannish' is a VERY good word to describe the Lubavitchers.
        • hempydave, on 05/15/2008, -4/+6So sleeping with your sister is kosher?
          • Ebulating, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8Adj. 1. clannish - characteristic of a clan especially in being unified; "clannish loyalty"
            2. clannish - befitting or characteristic of those who incline to social exclusiveness and who rebuff the advances of people considered inferior cliquish, snobbish, snobby, clubby
          • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Good point, let's add "inbred" to the list of things wrong with these troglodytes.

            They seem to have emerged from the mists of time, untouched by human evolution, devoid of a single progressive idea, and lacking the slightest awareness of social and cultural advances
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1The Empire never ended.
    • Idiggapony, on 05/15/2008, -10/+9I'm planning to start reading this lovely fellow's comments again as soon as he learns to spell his own name.
    • toppgun, on 05/15/2008, -13/+14who the hell is digging this guy for blatant racism, anti-semitism and hate? He even links to Fox news which is about as legit as quoting a mentally handicapped about philosophy.
      • hempydave, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3"Even the slow and the stupid have their say " Helen Keller
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2>"quoting a mentally handicapped about philosophy."

        If you want to play PC Police, you can't say stuff like that. Not that consistently ethical behavior is the Ziontologists' forte.
    • bjstiktrix, on 05/15/2008, -9/+19Spot on mate. Kosher processing is barbaric and disgusting
      • TheChauvinist, on 05/15/2008, -7/+0No you are wrong. it just happened to be that this place was corrupted. same as any other mafioso establishment
    • JCPahl, on 05/15/2008, -4/+12Basic human decency toward animals isn't as important as not hurting anyone's feelings! /s
    • QsheiK, on 05/15/2008, -2/+4Your thoughts are everywhere. While there is some truth in your comment, I need to make one thing clear....Stunning the animal is counter-productive. As a butcher and someone who abides closely to the Halal way of slaughtering (which is very similar to Kosher), I can attest to this with scientific evidence:

      http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halal.htm
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3Right. Every other (non Sand-Fundy) slaughterhouse uses a bolt gun to stun the doomed animal because it's "counter-productive." And not having a meth lab on site is also counter-productive too, I take it? "Suffer for our profit faster, you dumb cattle!"

        Stop living in the Dark Ages and join us in the 21st Century. The age of death worship and insane Abraham's ritual (child) sacrifices is finally over.
        • QsheiK, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1Give me one instance where I endorsed the meth lab.

          If you even read the article, you would see that an experiment which was conducted in Germany proved that stunning the animal causes pain and fear in the animal as opposed to killing it the traditional way without a stungun.

          Your rhetoric is getting old, start posting facts rather than opinion and patronizing remarks or else noone will take you seriously.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2You halal-kosher ritual slaughter people are insane evolutionary throwbacks. My wisecrack about the meth lab was intended to communicate that anything a throwback butcher says should be taken with plenty of skepticism and derision.

          I've seen "scientific" papers saying that infant gentile mutilation is healthy, too. These types of papers always come from places without laws against barbaric kosher slaughter. That tells you who is in control in those places.
    • BN2L, on 05/15/2008, -3/+4While I agree with the animal rights issues you're point would have been better made without racist comments such as 'primitive, death worshiping, clannish cave people'.
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Which adjective's accuracy are you disputing? And please allow me to add "inbred" to the list of their faults.

        Sorry to hurt your feelings, but meth hurts kids, kosher slaughter hurts animals, and employing illegals hurts America. Those are the three things I'm most protective of. Hurt a kid or animal and you are scum. My instinct is to make sure you can't do it again, or encourage others to do for you.

        And since when was Lubovitch become a race, and not a weird cult?
    • eryximachus, on 05/15/2008, -2/+2You forgot to mention that the only time in history these barbaric practices were banned was from 1933 until 1945 in Germany.
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3You don't know what you're talking about. Barbaric Kosher practices have been long banned in many sufficiently civilized countries, where Jews are not hyper-represented in the Courts, Police, and major centers of power.

        "production of kosher meat, known as shechita, has long been illegal in Norway, Denmark and Sweden. And in Switzerland" http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0702/euro_kosher. ...

        Why not spend 2 seconds checking google before you accuse someone concerned about animals of being another Hitler?

        Have a nice day and enjoy your tiny little brain, you stupid bloody brainwashed peasant.

        Jet planes are a product of the same era in Germany. They were also a good idea.
      • synaesthete, on 05/15/2008, -1/+0Interesting how all of Emperor Titus's posts start at +2, while all of mine start at 0. The Digg administrators said my account was of good standing. More codes from the Nazis I see.
  • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -10/+23the Waco Branch Davidians found a meth lab linked to the Dixie Mafia at Mount Carmel. Koresh called the sheriff, but was told they "knew all about it" and to "just get rid of it." They put it in storage, but that evidence could hurt the Clintons and needed burning.

    [ Ken Vardon LA Times interview 1/5/95 has mention of drugs, CIA. (url at end here)
    K:Well, George Rodin, that ran that place before David Koresh took over, okay, you know, that was a major meth factory there. They were doing $30 to $50 million dollars a year.
    L: We did hear about that...and I think Newsweek reported that.
    K: And when David Koresh threw him out... http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a392814653da6.ht ... ]

    Bernard Rapoport, Waco and the Drug Mafia http://www.konformist.com/vault/wacodrug.htm
    • HappyScrappy, on 05/15/2008, -6/+4Wow, this is a new high. I forget how ridiculous Free Republic is until someone like you starts posting "information" from it.
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1It's from the 90's, when FreeRepublic used to be a great research site during the Clinton years. But then the Neocons ruined it, so I understand your contempt for the site.
  • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -18/+32Now we know why Mossad is infiltrating the DEA, bugging their offices and visiting them at their unlisted home addresses!
    "A highly detailed DEA report that was acquired by French intelligence analysts documented 180 cases of Israeli art students infiltrating DEA facilities. It provided names, drivers' license numbers, addresses and phone numbers of the Israelis. [DEA report 6/01; Insight 3/11/02] http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/globemovers.htm

    "The Israelis are veterans. Some served in elite units and intelligence units," said a New York narcotics agent. "They know all the tricks of surveillance and counter-surveillance. They are very hard to catch. http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/05/Israel/student_s ...
  • yellowcakewalk, on 05/15/2008, -29/+24The Israelis have infiltrated every pore of the United States. I know you all have seen these Fox News documentary film clips from December 2001 about their drug dealing, telephone wiretapping, spying, etc, but here they are again as they are germane to the story:
    http://yellowcakewalk.net/video/Fox_News_Israeli_S ...
    http://yellowcakewalk.net/video/Fox_News_Israeli_S ...
    http://yellowcakewalk.net/video/Fox_News_Israeli_S ...
    http://yellowcakewalk.net/video/Fox_News_Israeli_S ...
    • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -5/+6Got a link to the .PDF of the leaked DEA report on Mossad (a.k.a. Kosher Nostra, a.k.a. "Russian" Mafia) infiltration?
    • evil-doer, on 05/15/2008, -5/+8well thats odd. its almost as if a group of people is trying to hide that information you are posting. must mean its the truth
      • yellowcakewalk, on 05/15/2008, -4/+10It was removed from the Fox News website.
        • evil-doer, on 05/15/2008, -0/+8i know what it is. i was just trying to say the bury brigade is working overtime trying to bury it
        • evil-doer, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1nice,with the new comment system i can now click on how many diggs and see it was dugg down 28 times. nice job bury squad.
  • 911ArtStudent, on 05/15/2008, -13/+47Aside from the fact that they were running a meth lab, they were also "hiring" illegal immigrant and treated them like slaves tying them up and beating them:

    "-- A supervisor taped-over the eyes of a Guatemalan man with duct tape, then struck the man with a meat hook that caused a serious injury. The source believed the Guatemalan man was an illegal immigrant and told him to report the incident to supervisors, but the man refused because he thought he would be fired.

    -- A Rabbi who worked at the plant berated a group of employees with vulgar language before hurling meat at them."
    http://digg.com/world_news/Largest_immigration_rai ...

    Pretty ***** revolting. of course if the Mexicans and Guatemalans had taken vengeance on the ***** I'm sure Abe Foxman and the ADL would have called it antisemitism.
    • HappyScrappy, on 05/15/2008, -2/+12Yeah. Not news. Remember the laws during the 90s that required employers to verify your identity and SSN before hiring you?

      It was actually working, it was getting more difficult for immigrants to find work at legit businesses. and it was crimping the profits of the Kansas City slaughterhouses because they had to pay more for legit workers. So they leaned on their buddies in government to make sure the law went off the books.

      I don't break this down by race, cause honestly I don't need to. They're working against our own society, by breaking the law and making it easier for them to get away with it.
    • thefinger, on 05/15/2008, -6/+8Are you people trying to revive Der Stermer or something? You have refined your propaganda, but your crap still stinks.
      • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -5/+6Oh ***** you, Likudnik scum.

        "On Tuesday, members of the Conservative movement's Hekhsher Tzedek Commission condemned the company, saying that keeping kosher requires more than just adherence to ritual matters, but also sensitivity to the environment and respect for workers and animals. The Hekhsher Tzedek initiative is in part a response to past allegations of misconduct at Agriprocessors.

        "The actions of this company have brought shame upon the entire Jewish community," the commission said. "Yesterday’s discovery, along with the other violations of the ethical standards set forth by our Torah and our tradition underscore the need for Hekhsher Tzedek. To be sure, halacha has never limited its concern to the ritual elements of kashrut alone."
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Why must they be so bigoted as to conflate the shameful actions of this company with the entire Jewish community?

        Those members of the Conservative movement's Hekhsher Tzedek Commission must be teh self-hating crypto-nazis!!!111!

        It's worse than Kristalnacht. Can't Abe Foxman be chauffeured down from New York City, in his ADL limo, immediately!!!???

    • pitlord, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3You just made that all up. Those are complete and total lies!
      -_-
      None of the "quotes" you posted appear in the story you linked to.
  • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -9/+20Wonder how many kids this meth lab has killed?
    • DestroyFascism, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3Less than the ones the Hells Angels or CIA were running....
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Oh well, that makes it OK then. Not.

        How do you know the meth from this lab wasn't being distributed by them?
        Do you have an source inside Urban Moving Systems, Mr. Spin-and-Minimize?
  • Siegfriedson, on 05/15/2008, -12/+32Isn't Israel the #1 exporter in the world of the drug "Ecstasy"?
    • Jambi, on 05/15/2008, -4/+23No. Israeli mobsters are the number one traffickers of ecstasy. Because much of the world's E is produced in Holland or nearby Belgium, Israeli mobsters who'd been running diamond smuggling operations out of Amsterdam for years took advantage of their local connections there and a pre existing infrastructure for smuggling to branch out when ecstasy became popular.
      • xerox, on 05/15/2008, -1/+10...hook a brother up?
        • waydee, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3If you can't find MDMA for sale online... look harder.
          • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2It's hard to find good Kosher ecstasy now that comcast is blocking MDMA.IL.
  • Minarchian, on 05/15/2008, -17/+19"and that employees carried weapons to work. "

    And what is the freaking problem with that?
    • Herkimer56, on 05/15/2008, -13/+16It's against the law. Didn't you know that?
      • Digger1218, on 05/15/2008, -1/+13Not necessarily. It varies from state to state and from employer to employer. Provided of course that the weapon bearer has the proper permits and such.
        • BearinG, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3I can't imagine people around here having guns at work.. a few different comments and im wondering, are you guys used to people at work or the office walking around with guns on their waist?
          • Digger1218, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1It depends on the work environment and the state. Some states have no prohibition against open-carry. That would be a gun on the waist in plain view. Concealed carry generally requires a permit and the gun must be concealed. Displaying a weapon is sometimes a crime referred to as "brandishing" and can result in the loss of a license.

            Carrying concealed is a personal choice and should not be done for the wrong reasons. Maybe 2-3 people that know me, know that I pack. I've never had to draw on anyone ever. But its piece of mind to have that backup available if your back is against the wall in a mugging or assault for example.
      • PeppermintPig, on 05/15/2008, -6/+8So I guess the military and law enforcement are illegal professions too? Cops, step into your cells and close the doors behind you. It's the law.
      • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Wow, only that one comment on this entire thread Herk?

        Your pills seem to be working! Keep on the meds, bro.
  • dj25817, on 05/15/2008, -16/+38The Israelis just want to make sure we have enough energy so we can fight their enemies for no reason
  • wrenchone, on 05/15/2008, -41/+37Since when did Digg become ground zero for the anti-Semitic assholes?
    • Jambi, on 05/15/2008, -17/+38Are you implying that calling kosher butchering of animals inhumane (which it undoubtedly is) and condemning people for running a meth lab out of their meat packaging plant and abusing their workers to boot is anti-semitic because the people in question are Jews? Get your head out of your ass, you idiot.
      • onetimer, on 05/15/2008, -17/+23No one said that you tool. Maybe, just maybe, it's the posts somehow condemning israel for this, simply BECAUSE it was a KOSHER meat plant, which connects it to judaism (hence the bigoted conflation of judaism and israel), even though as far as I know israel had no stake (heh, pun) in this slaughterhouse whatsoever.

        But i'm sure it's just a coincidence...
        • Jambi, on 05/15/2008, -6/+8It looked to me more as if a bunch of people were going off on a tangent about Jews in the crime business. (since when have you ever known a Digg discussion to stay on topic?) Ironically, some of the more idiotic comments posted below this little exchange (bacon farts, etc) have proven you right; go figure.
        • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -1/+3Wow. Sorry, man, but your associations there are a bit of a stretch. It's a kosher plant, specifically the nation's largest one. It'd be anti-semitism to directly state that the plant was part of a jewish conspiracy to take over the country using meth and kosher meat, or other such nonsense, but no such nonsense was stated.

          Buried for oversensitivity.
      • tightscrummy, on 05/15/2008, -6/+5As a matter of fact, he his. If Israel was making anal sex lube out of the fat of non-Jew babies and you said "Maybe you should find another source of fat?" you'd be called an "anti-Semite" too.
    • rugabug, on 05/15/2008, -11/+11A long time ago.
    • vandernderyid, on 05/15/2008, -11/+8When (some of) the Ron Paul supporters found out Digg existed.

      I don't dislike Ron Paul, nor do I dislike most of his supporters. But some of 'em give the rest an awful name.
      • toppgun, on 05/15/2008, -13/+10I do dislike Ron Paul, and I do dislike most of his supporters. They need a mandatory basic course in Econ and Intro to the American Political System. they are stuck in their own little realm of idealism that if carried over to the real world would destroy it.
        • Cryptocracy, on 08/17/2008, -6/+10too late, your reality is crashing as we speak.
        • alittleroy101, on 05/15/2008, -6/+4I am in total agreement with you toppgun.
    • elipabst, on 05/15/2008, -9/+8Are you new here our something? Nothing like a good Kosher thread to bring out the mouth-breathing bigots. Threads not complete until you see a good conspiracy post involving one of the Rothschilds.
    • hempydave, on 05/15/2008, -5/+4Who pissed in your cornflakes?
  • jp12380, on 05/15/2008, -4/+39That can't be kosher.
    • noseeme, on 05/15/2008, -1/+10If the meth chews its own cud, and doesn't have a cloven hoof, then it is kosher.
  • chapoec, on 05/15/2008, -17/+14Wow the Jews sure love their food laced with meth. I did not know that.
    • onetimer, on 05/15/2008, -9/+10You must not have been paying close attention; you accidentally typed "jews" instead of "zionists". Is your filter broken?
      • chapoec, on 05/15/2008, -8/+7It is basically the same *****. If you want to be a dick about.
        • onetimer, on 05/15/2008, -8/+11"It is basically the same *****"

          Only if you're a bigoted idiot. I suppose you also think that all muslims must be palestinian extremists too, eh?
        • chapoec, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1No I think all muslims are terrorist who worship the great pedophile Mohamed.
  • nkleffman, on 05/15/2008, -9/+18Prohibition doesn't work.
    • StanleyKoolPrik, on 05/15/2008, -4/+4Neither do you I'd bet.
    • Zippo, on 05/15/2008, -2/+1So... we should legalize meth? If we make meth legal, then there are going to be MORE meth labs...
      ... how the hell is that a good idea?
  • EatChex89, on 05/15/2008, -2/+19I wish there were more information. Even a picture or two.
    • plimpton777, on 05/15/2008, -9/+6Lol Pics or it's an anti-semitic smear campaign!
      • onetimer, on 05/15/2008, -9/+8Yeah, I suppose we should just take the websites word for it...
        • 911ArtStudent, on 05/15/2008, -4/+10Why would the Jewish Telegraph Agency lie about this?
          • elipabst, on 05/15/2008, -1/+4.... . .-.. .-.. / .. ..-. / .. / -.- -. --- .--
        • PlagueOfMorons, on 05/15/2008, -2/+3It's in Iowa newspapers, so don't get your britches in an uproar, grandma.
          Meth, huh. Well, now we know where the Bury Brigade gets the energy to put down its enemies 24/7.
  • StanleyKoolPrik, on 05/15/2008, -8/+22Hey, Jews need meth too you know!
    • Jambi, on 05/15/2008, -2/+11It's true. Amy Winehouse accounts for 80% of the U.K.'s meth consumption all by herself.
    • ElBeh, on 05/15/2008, -2/+8Yes we do.
  • Barackalypse, on 05/15/2008, -3/+14Sadly I doubt that even makes the top 10 list of bad things found at meat processing plants.
  • jetblackz4, on 05/15/2008, -3/+26Oy vey
  • offthewagon, on 05/15/2008, -5/+28so, wait...they had HENCHMEN. Henchmen are real?
  • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -3/+8Some days you just feel like you're making a break through.
  • noseeme, on 05/15/2008, -16/+9Moar liek "Meth Lab fount at larJEWst kosher meat plant", amirite?
    • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -4/+2You lose for posting an idiotic comment, but also for the "amirite" - an automatic failure.

      And you use the Drexel Dragon as your icon. You offend this truncated alumnus.
      • noseeme, on 05/15/2008, -1/+1You lose for missing the point, and for being whiny and sensitive.
        Also, I've been meaning to change that stupid icon. ***** Drexel.
  • SydBarrett420, on 05/15/2008, -13/+15I heard when you get to the top level of scientology you learn their ULTIMATE SECRET:

    Xenu's last name is : Rothstein
  • Terasiel, on 05/15/2008, -13/+15Great, now we have Mexican Jews destroying white trash across America.
  • Picaroon, on 05/15/2008, -26/+36Only on Digg would this turn into an anti-Semitic "Zionist Mossad conspiracy" spamfest. Holy *****--these comments really weaken my confidence in humanity.
    • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -14/+11I could not agree with you more. I get so frustrated when neocons play the "antisemitism" card in relation to Israel, but this is an entirely different story. A balance must be struck in realizing when one is merely arguing a valid point, and when one is being maliciously vindictive and racist. I *always* approach things with an open mind, but the anti-Semitism/conspiracy nonsense in this thread is pretty shocking.
      • NPodhoretz14, on 05/15/2008, -4/+8What conspiracy nonsense. It's a real news story. JTA is the Jewish Telegraph Agency. I don't think they are trying to spawn antisemitic conspiracy theories.
        • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -1/+2Note that Picaroon says "Only on Digg". That is what he is talking about. My response is also about Digg. That's not very complicated. I openly say "in this thread". Learn to read.
    • hypodan, on 05/15/2008, -7/+8Don't act surprised when you see racism on the internet, it's a problem but you can always ignore it.
    • synaesthete, on 05/15/2008, -9/+8Don't worry Picaroon, Digg isn't really anti-semitic. There are about 20 or 30 hardcore antisemites, who all friended each other and swarm together, working to bring antisemitic articles to the front page. You'll notice that in lots of these articles there the only ones posting(despite somehow being hundreds or thousands of diggs), though sometimes groups of Israelis or other Jews argue against them. Most sensible people just avoid the antisemitic bs.
      • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -7/+6You're describing your own astroturfing operation. Projection is either a tool of the trade or a common pathology among you Ziontologists.

        Oh the seemingly grass-roots shared sense of outrage! Shocked. SHOCKED!
      • synaesthete, on 05/15/2008, -2/+8Yawn Yeah yeah

        Neocognitism sends shouts saying "If anyone hasn't dug this, please do. This is important and needs to hit the Front Page."

        http://img388.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screencap ...

        Standard issue for these clowns.
    • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -3/+5Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the place was run by Mossad - but that's nothing to do with zionism.
  • shadoweva09, on 05/15/2008, -4/+8Is that meth kosher?
    (had to say it)
  • Lavarock, on 05/15/2008, -3/+4Not kosher.
  • plimpton777, on 05/15/2008, -6/+8I can haz moar kosher speed plez?
  • RationalXubrnce, on 05/15/2008, -6/+19 I'm sure if a strict fundamentalist Christian sect moved into a Jewish area and got caught running a meth lab in their factory the media would ignore that story also.
    • onetimer, on 05/15/2008, -7/+7...and I'm sure it would have made the front page of digg as well...
    • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -8/+7They weren't running a ***** meth lab! Damnit why are you so ignorant? Why do you want to believe everything you read, is it really that sensational??? The meth lab was merely an allegation by an ex-employee.
      http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/18875764.html
      • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -2/+7On Tuesday, members of the Conservative movement's Hekhsher Tzedek Commission condemned the company, saying that keeping kosher requires more than just adherence to ritual matters, but also sensitivity to the environment and respect for workers and animals. The Hekhsher Tzedek initiative is in part a response to past allegations of misconduct at Agriprocessors.

        "The actions of this company have brought shame upon the entire Jewish community," the commission said. "Yesterday’s discovery, along with the other violations of the ethical standards set forth by our Torah and our tradition underscore the need for Hekhsher Tzedek. To be sure, halacha has never limited its concern to the ritual elements of kashrut alone."
        • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -0/+2Do you see any mention of a Meth lab? The plant was obviously a very poorly run operation with a lot of questionable activity, but I, and all other rational skeptics, have no reason to believe a Meth lab was being run there. That's pretty ridiculous. Also, Neocognitsm, I left you a response to something else somewhere, please read it.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/16/2008, -0/+1Why bring guns to work unless there's a meth lab?

          It's not like they were using them to put down the animals in a humane way.

          Imagine if Eight Belles had been hung upside down with her throat slit at the Kentucky Derby, instead of being euthanized. We might hear a call for joining the advanced Nordic countries in banning barbaric Kosher slaughter rituals. People would realize Kosher rituals are as absurd and repugnant as Satanic blood sacrifices.
  • cyclopssmiley, on 05/15/2008, -10/+29Wow, bringing Israel into this because you see the word "kosher" get out of here moron.
    • tightscrummy, on 05/15/2008, -5/+7Right, he should have brought Vietnam into it Mr. Run-on-sentence.
      • Fordi, on 05/15/2008, -2/+4Israel is not entirely populated by jews, you realize. Nor do all jews feel a connection with Israel. And not all Israelis are zionists, and not all zionists are jewish. Basically, the entire comment content on this article is mangling what should be a relatively simple Venn diagram where no circle resides within another.
        • flogistan, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Oh my goodness, now I'm so confused I like neocons.
  • Dan11023, on 05/15/2008, -9/+8as a jew that keeps kosher in the states, I am shocked as hell, seriously this is the worst news ive been dealt with since 9-11 no joke. I am shocked. FOR GIVE ME HASHEM!
    • Michiko280, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5It is shocking news, especially because the kosher laws are supposed to keep meat production MORE humane. However, the meat industry is not controlled by moral ethicists but by money hungry bigheads and run by illegal immigrants that cant afford to lose their job. It's really sad. Thankfully there are a lot more vegetarian and vegan options these days so we now have the choice to stop supporting (and paying for) these practices.
      • Couchy, on 05/15/2008, -0/+3Why the hell was that comment dugg down but all the "holy crap digg you anti-semetic blah blah blahs" all have a ton of diggs?
      • Dan11023, on 05/16/2008, -1/+1Thanks to the new comment system.... you are now blocked.
  • aserer511, on 05/15/2008, -8/+9"Oy, shloime, the tweakers at the door, he wants more product!"
  • AzraDarkness, on 05/15/2008, -6/+2ITS A TRAP!
  • koolaird, on 05/15/2008, -23/+32these anti-Semitic comments are sickening. I am ashamed, Digg.
  • LucasJ218, on 05/15/2008, -3/+25That's weird - I don't live that far from Postville and while the raids have been in the news, no drug bust as been mentioned. Also surprising to see some of the immigrants were in from Canada, as most of the protests going on involve Hispanic families.
    • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -11/+7Because the "Meth Lab" was an allegation by an ex-employee (and the allegation itself seems like it was a very minor incident), not something uncovered in a daring drug raid. I know, not nearly as sensational as everyone here would like, but what can you do. There is no reason to assume that the meth lab existed, or that the operators had knowledge of it.
      • neocognitism, on 05/15/2008, -4/+10Yes, a very minor meth lab, just a little meth lab, nothing out of the ordinary, we've all got them in our car trunks, right?
        • lordenlil, on 05/15/2008, -3/+4Neocognitism, I am pretty surprised. You of all people seemed to be a rational skeptic with a pretty good sense of judgment, or at least thats the impression I got from some of your other comments. But your comments and responses to my comments on this story give me the sense that you may have ulterior motives. I won't play the anti-semitism card because that's dumb and it won't get us anywhere. I will just say two things.
          First, in response to this specific story: I didn't say a Meth lab was tiny or that it's common to find them (although, in the mid-west meth is so rampant that is not uncommon to find abandoned labs in forests), I just said that the allegation were unsubstantiated, and it was not coming from a biased source. That does not mean there was no meth lab, it means that the allegation should be subject to extreme scrutiny. Don't you find LucasJ's comment interesting? He lives right there, it's all over the news by him, yet he's heard nothing of a meth lab.
          Second, about this story and these comments: It is undeniable that this story has been blown out of proportion by diggers. A story that should have been reported as inaccurate as soon as it hit the front page makes it near 1,000 diggs. But that is only one concerning detail. The most concerning aspect of these comments is how quickly comments sprouted about Jews controlling the MSM, Israel being the "ecstasy mecca of the world", Jews smuggling blood diamonds in religious garb, Israeli Mossad's involvement with the DEA etc. Now, I know it's typical for digg comments to stray from their parent stories, I understand that. But, when the immediate reaction of comments are all negative and blaming Israel and "the Jews", then something is wrong.
          Additionally, while I am on the topic. I have no doubt that you saw yesterdays Ron Paul speech. I am all for the naming of the neocons, it is important to know who they are, to give a name and face to the shadows. But the video images of the speech were absolutely revolting, scary actually. It clearly was not Ron Paul editing the video, but some kid, and I don't bear grudges against Ron Paul. I know that many comments expressed surprise, dismay, intrigue about the antisemitic overtones, a handful of comments condemned them. But again, the sheer fact that a video laced with such blatant and ignorant anti-semitism can reach the front page with 3K+ diggs says something about digg and its users.
          • synaesthete, on 05/15/2008, -4/+3Look at neocognitism's Digg history. He diggs stories like "Jewish media corrupts teen girls"(as if the title wasn't offensive enough, the comment written by white supremacist and Holocaust Ted Pike is even more disgusting) and all of his comments are about demonizing Jews and Israel. He then denies he's an antnisemite, but one can easily look at his profile and see he has a clear track record of being one. He also hates Gays as is typical for Nazis.

            These people and his other bigot friends work to get these articles to the front page and dug up, and then fill them with antisemitic comments. They have very little qualms about openly lying about what they're doing. They're also painfully easy to see through.
        • EmporerTitus, on 05/15/2008, -5/+4>"I won't play the anti-semitism card because that's dumb and it won't get us anywhere. " [LIAR!]

          ...

          >"the sheer fact that a video laced with such blatant and ignorant anti-semitism can reach the front page with 3K+ diggs says something"

          You are so playing the anti-semitism card. Just like your Dear Neocon Leader, W. Bush, who is bravely ignoring Godwin and using the same tired old card smear Obama as zomg teh nazis.
        • lordenlil, on 05/16/2008, -4/+4My assertion that I won't "play the anti-semitism card" meant the following: I will not submit to an ad hominem attack and merely call Neocognitism an anti-semite for his beliefs (as so many wonderfully ignorant Neo-Cons would). Instead, I will try to rationally demonstrate what I think is incorrect, why I think it is incorrect, what I find offensive, and why I find it offensive.
          Hence, lines 8-28- a clear, methodical, rational layout of everything I am trying to say, without succumbing to an ad hominem attack.
          As per the Ron Paul Neocon video- I ask you this: do you think it was laced with anti-semitic imagery? If the answer is no, then I think you are intentionally being ignorant, and as such I would have nothing more to say. If you think that there may have been anti-semitic undertones, then I ask you this: should I, as a Jew, not be offended?
          Don't call George Bush my leader, I find that offensive. Don't assume that I am a neocon, I find that offensive as well.
          Just some tips:
          Don't assume things, it makes you sound stupid.
          In a rebuttal, try to dismantle the argument, not the orator. Employ reason and logic, not caps lock and personal attacks. Know what you believe and why you believe it.
        • neocognitism, on 05/16/2008, -5/+4@synaesthewhatever
          Ooohhh so are YOU Greenblue or whatever on reddit?

          Wow, evidently I really beat your ass in those discussions we had. You're mad, projecting, and lying like a rejected prom date.

          The only proven anti-Israel antisemite is you, many many times over.

          And I don't know why you say I hate gays, because I don't hate you...

          I notice your comments are coming up +0/-0 again. Astroturfing shillmaster, we love you and all your accounts.

          @lordenifil

          There is considerable history of a subgroup of the hasidic community trafficing and dealing in stimulants. Israel is the world center for ecstasy, or it was. It is not a stretch for this obviously Israeli mafia-connected to have a meth lab, and there is very little point in an ex-employee making such a false claim since it would be immediately discovered and proven by forensic chemical analysis.

          Of course, it could be wrong, but then anything could be wrong. But rest assured, if you walk towards the West side of Baltimore from city center, you will pass a city corner where a gang sells stimulants. Past history says the same for the sometime-hasidic Israeli mafia in America. Do a google search.
        • lordenlil, on 05/16/2008, -4/+5@ Neocognitism:
          You seemed to have missed my point. Israel's involvement in the international ecstasy trade is well known and well documented. You are right about the notorious mafia of the early 20th century, and some of the Jewish members within it. You are also right that there are sporadic instances of Hassidic Jews involved in shady business dealings, among them, diamond smuggling, drug smuggling and money laundering. Those are facts, and I do not dispute them whatsoever.
          The concern of mine is that the comments in this particular story have made haste in connecting those dots, unrelated dots, and attaching them to this story. The connecting of those dots and the accusations of broader conspiracies, and the association of all that in a completely separate and unrelated story is the specific issue I have.
          Every ethnic group has its outcasts, black sheep, infamous members, poor stereotypes, and degenerates. A racist judges that racial group based on negative demerits, as opposed to positive qualities. Meaning, racists gather all of the persons on the above list, and use them as [incorrect] personifications of the entire group. That is openly happening in the United States with Muslims today. I don't feel that I need to explain that farther.
          Grouping these unrelated deeds and persons, and automatically connecting them with further unrelated deeds or persons, is racist and displays large amounts of ignorance.
          My specific dismay is the willingness exhibited by diggers not only to accept this story as objective truth, but to readily bring out the arsenal of other Jewish misdeeds, be they true or false, and make free associations between those misdeeds and this story.
          Furthermore, I suggest you read the search warrant for the factory raid. It's very interesting. And again, I *do not* claim that there was no meth factory, I do claim, however, two things. 1- No such factory was found in the raid, leading me to believe that it was not a large or permanent operation. 2- The employee that made the allegations had considerable interest in tarnishing the reputation of those s/he accused. That motive, if nothing else, should cast a skeptical shadow on accusations.
          Lastly- For whatever reasons, I was once intimately familiar with the Orthodox Jewish drug scene of Baltimore, and the secular Israeli drug scenes of Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem. I don't need to do a google search to know about them. From all my experience, I know but three Hassidic Jews that were involved in drugs. Two had never smoked more than pot, and one was arrested for heroin possession and is now clean. Hassidic Jews, by and large, do what their Rabbi's tell them to do- which is absolutely not to smuggle drugs, diamonds or money. The notion that a "subgroup" exists that is very involved in such activities would sound ridiculous to any Orthodox Jew, and most Hassidic Jews.

        • synaesthete, on 05/16/2008, -5/+4Neocognitism, your logic is....unique...to say the least.

          Oh and, from an E-mail sent by Digg "Your account is in good standing, and you shouldn't be having any trouble"- Digg Support

          Translation: Nazis like you hacking Digg.
        • neocognitism, on 05/16/2008, -4/+4Your points are valid and very thoughtful.

          Yes, there is a degree of racism/bigotry associated with the digg response to this article, but it's extremely minor compared to the racism and bigotry displayed to Arabs/Muslims which goes practically unchallenged.

          My emotion regarding this story is more a desire to rub this in the faces of the Jewish community and the digg Jewish-supremacist Ziontologists that live in willful denial of what you correctly put as their "black sheep," many of whom are rabbis in this absurd event. It also has something to do with the resentment I feel every time I am knowingly wrongfully called an antisemite and/or anti-Israel (like I just was above) by extremist astroturfing Ziontologists who call anyone who disagrees with them as such. How can you spin this? And yet they did. It's just "not a big deal" when it's someone on their team, but it's a HUGE deal when it's anybody they don't like. Settler ramming a US General's convoy? "Not a big deal." Do you understand how insulting and unpatriotic that feels to everyone?

          Also, it's not clear just how isolated this scandal is. It really might be a much larger deal, I mean, how many rabbis does this involve, and how many more religious people were complicit and knowledgeable? It merits a wide-ranging investigation, at the very least. Obviously this has nothing to do with Judaism, but the involved rabbis and others could very well be personally convinced *they were acting in Judaism's name*. I mean, look at settlers, look at Rabin's assassin, look at the abortion providers' assassins, look at Islamic suicide bombers. Isn't it important we find out if that was the case?

          Bringing up all the past evidence as I did wasn't to antisemitically say "oh it's a pattern/conspiracy." Rather, it is to counter the absolute denial many in the community have that anything like this ever could happen amongst them. It was to say, "not only could it happen, it's happened many many times in many many ways." Bringing all this up is also a defense against immediate charges of antisemitism in trying to say this story is true at all. Ironically, you're edging on calling me an antisemite FOR bringing it up. A catch-22 that is simply not of my making. Of course, it's not a catch-22 if I just STFU and remain an obedient silent goyim, but I shall not commit such a stupid self-abrogation of my rights ever again. Swing the antisemitism cudgel, I will speak my mind, which is free of bigotry and racism and is interested only in peace, equal justice, and humanitarian issues.

          How do you know the employee had an interest in damaging his employer?

          A meth lab could have been broken down in minutes and gone mobile, as it's not the kind of thing you leave hanging around. Most of the time the FBI/DEA only finds the aftermath of a meth lab, because the producers frequently move around specifically to avoid getting caught. Any competent drug synthesizer would make sure to leave as little a trace as possible, so really only forensic chemical analysis of the area would prove the meth lab was ever there. If the area was recently scoured, that may not be enough proof for a court of law, but it sure would convince me.

          Again, I appreciate your thoughts.
        • lordenlil, on 05/16/2008, -2/+6Excusing some bigotry because its minor in comparison with other bigotry is not ok. I'm sure that you know that. I understand that the comparison comes from endless frustration in the face of illogical, immoral, ranting, pathetic pro-Israel neocons that don't know their head from their ass, I understand too well, actually.
          You explained yourself by saying that your comments arise from frustration and resentment, and I understand that. But you must realize there is a much broader Jewish population that does not share the views of these guiltless 'Ziontologists'. Launching a preemptive strike that takes aim at a broad population (Jewish people) to "stick-it" to a few people (Jewish Ziontologists) is something that should not be done. (Yes, I see the Israel parallel, but I refuse to acknowledge it because I do not care to stir the pot.)
          I understand now that you did not mean to offend as many people as were offended (at least one), but rather wanted to send a valid message to a smaller subgroup of people. To further avoid that, I'd suggest that you do not launch preemptive tirades in an unrelated topic (which is what I detected to be bordering on anti-semitic), but rather stick to the playing field, which is Israel and all things directly related.
          You are absolutely correct that this particular story merits a wide-ranging investigation. Aside from the Meth lab, there are reports of abuse, cruelty, tax-fraud, and many other serious matters. I can tell you from personal experience, though, that these types of matters, when committed by Orthodox Rabbi's, usually have very little to do with "acting in the name of God".
          As per the employee and the micro-specifics of the case: I know because I did my research. The JTA article was written by one Ben Harris, who admitted that no drugs were actually *found* in the raid, but a mention of drugs was made in the search warrant. He pointed me to a Yvonne Beasley of the Des Moines Register who confirmed that no drugs were found in the raid, and provided me with the search warrant. In the warrant, the employee alleges that s/he was fired *specifically* for reporting the Meth lab. The fact that the employee has so much personal involvement and stake in the specific allegation should make the allegation subject to real scrutiny. Realize how far the employee took this after the one incident.
          What all this means is just that the story is far from concrete, and the stories portrayal in the JTA article is unfair. Instead of challenging this, everyone took it for granted. I highly doubt that this story is a brick in a larger conspiracy for two reasons. 1- The Feds have been working on this for months, they would have caught wind of anything larger and disrupted tha larger operation as well. And 2- No drugs were actually found in the raid (even though labs are portable, it is safe to assume that a large-scale meth operation would have left its obvious clues, which were not found. And if the operation was not medium-to-large-scale, then it is not part of a broader operation).
          Cheers.
        • neocognitism, on 05/18/2008, -5/+3"But you must realize there is a much broader Jewish population that does not share the views of these guiltless 'Ziontologists'. Launching a preemptive strike that takes aim at a broad population (Jewish people) to "stick-it" to a few people (Jewish Ziontologists) is something that should not be done."

          Of course I realize that, and that understanding is reflected in every comment I make from the terms I use to the tone and constructions I employ.

          But in this case I *was* speaking about the broader "Jewish" population, because it is the broader population that is in denial that stuff like this goes on. It used to be that way here as well with the much much larger "Christian" population until the crescendo of scandals over the last decade.

          Therefore, I appreciate your words, but you can take your wrongful admonishment of my words and shove it up your ass. Go condescend to yourself in a mirror.

          As for the drug issue, from what you said, all they said they DIDNT find was meth or a meth lab. You have no information that a forensic team went in to check for the "clues" that you mentioned and I mentioned twice before. A few detectives walking around is not forensic analysis. Even then, give me a day, and I could clean the area of a meth operation to where it was undetectable, assuming they weren't the worst meth makers in the history of the world. If they were smart, and if you ask zealots like syn above he would say they are, then they would have had the operation such that it would have required nothing more than a hose-down once the equipment was carted away.

          Since you've gone so far with this already, I'm sure you won't hesitate to call the police department there and ask for the detective assigned to the case. Ask him what sort of analysis they did, and if they're done. Also, ask him what benefit there would be to falsely claiming a meth lab, and if a search warrant could have been obtained for some of the other things they had going on. I bet you'll find that there was no need to claim a meth lab for a warrant, and they performed no forensic analysis.
        • lordenlil, on 05/18/2008, -3/+6I cannot for the life of me see how that comment makes *any* logical sense. From the beginning, the gist of my argument was:

          "The most concerning aspect of these comments is how quickly comments sprouted about Jews controlling the MSM, Israel being the "ecstasy mecca of the world", Jews smuggling blood diamonds in religious garb, Israeli Mossad's involvement with the DEA etc. Now, I know it's typical for digg comments to stray from their parent stories, I understand that. But, when the immediate reaction of comments are all negative and blaming Israel and "the Jews", then something is wrong."
          In case you don't understand, that means- it bothers me that this irrelevant story has turned into an orgy of blaming Jewish misdeeds, real and fiction.

          Your response is:
          "There is considerable history of a subgroup of the hasidic community trafficing and dealing in stimulants. Israel is the world center for ecstasy, or it was. It is not a stretch for this obviously Israeli mafia-connected to have a meth lab, and there is very little point in an ex-employee making such a false claim since it would be immediately discovered and proven by forensic chemical analysis."
          Meaning- the allegations against Jews and Israel are true. We aren't making anything up because we are anti-semites and enjoy Jew-bashing. Also, about the meth- chances are s/he is telling the truth because it's obvious that the raid will bring about conclusive evidence.

          My response:
          "You seemed to have missed my point...blah blah blah...Grouping these unrelated deeds and persons, and automatically connecting them with further unrelated deeds or persons, is racist and displays large amounts of ignorance...blah blah blah...My specific dismay is the willingness exhibited by diggers not only to accept this story as objective truth, but to readily bring out the arsenal of other Jewish misdeeds, be they true or false, and make free associations between those misdeeds and this story...blah blah blah...And again, I *do not* claim that there was no meth factory, I do claim, however, two things. [1- No lab found. 2- Allegation has reason to be doubted]."

          You say:
          "Yes, there is a degree of racism/bigotry associated with the digg response to this article, but it's extremely minor compared to the racism and bigotry displayed to Arabs/Muslims which goes practically unchallenged...blah blah blah...My emotion regarding this story is more a desire to rub this in the faces of the Jewish community and the digg Jewish-supremacist Ziontologists that live in willful denial of what you correctly put as their "black sheep," many of whom are rabbis in this absurd event...blah blah blah...Also, it's not clear just how isolated this scandal is. It really might be a much larger deal...Obviously this has nothing to do with Judaism, but the involved rabbis and others could very well be personally convinced *they were acting in Judaism's name*...blah blah blah...
          KEY: Bringing up all the past evidence as I did wasn't to antisemitically say "oh it's a pattern/conspiracy." Rather, it is to COUNTER (my emphasis added) the absolute denial many in the community have that anything like this ever could happen amongst them."

          Let me paraphrase my response, as you clearly do not understand it.

          In response to your comment about "it's extremely minor in comparison to..." I say: Excusing some bigotry because its minor in comparison with other bigotry is not ok. I understand that a lot of Jewish people will deny that wrongdoing occurs in their midst, but pointing that out should not be done preemptively. When it is done preemptively, it is easily misidentified as frustration and labeled as anti-semitism.
          We both clearly agree that the unjust grouping and judgment of an entire race's misdeeds is bigoted. You said you only did it because you were trying to prove a point. I said don't be a baby and prove your point when it is fit and appropriate to prove your point, i.e, not preemptively.

          But, in your final response you stick to your guns and say that you *were* indeed addressing the entire Jewish population. You *were* indeed grouping a races misdeeds as a preemptive strike.
          You agree that a racist is one that, unprovoked, passes judgment on a race by judging their demerits and not their qualities.

          I ask you this: how would an anti-semite react to the story of the Kosher slaughterhouse? The answer, to me, is: an anti-semite would automatically relate and group that information to other Jewish misdeeds, and perhaps comment about that relationship, and the negative consequences that Jews permit.
          I am *NOT* calling you an anti-semite, I am saying that what you did, and what an anti-semite *may* do, look very similar to an observer! I understand the reason you are addressing the broad group, you don't need to repeat it, but you must realize that it is unacceptable. There is a time and place to make those comments, but that time and place is *not* preemptively in a story about some Jewish misdeed. Don't be surprised that I was offended, it is rational. Put yourself in my situation, just try and imagine this for one minute:
          I'm a Jew. I use Digg all the time. I see a story about a Kosher slaughterhouse and a Meth lab being run in it. I check the comments. Nearly all of the comments are about Jews doing this bad, or that bad, or engaged in this illegal activity, or that activity etc.
          Furthermore, I research the story and the crux of it, the Meth lab, proves to be a mere allegation that should be doubted by any rational thinker.
          The offense I took and the dismay I felt should come as no surprise. Jews as a group had *nothing* to do with this, yet Jews as a group (specifically Jewish misdeeds) were the "topic" being discussed!

          Also, you are not making any sense about the meth lab. I can't believe this simple logic did not click.
          Scenario A- You are right, the meth lab was a big operation, part of a broader drug ring.
          This cannot be for two reasons (as mentioned before)- 1, the slaughterhouse was under surveillance for many months and any large operation surely would have been detected. 2- a large operation would leave a lot of evidence, enough so that a forensic analysis is not needed to conclude there was an operation.
          Scenario B- There was a small meth-lab, not under the guise of the entire supervision. Maybe a handful of employees, maybe even a supervisor or two.
          This can actually be. I never denied that there *may* have been a meth lab. I denied that it was large, and I made a point of repeating over and over that the allegation itself should not be taken at face value. Perhaps 'benefit' is the wrong word chosen in relation with the motive of the allegation; maybe just motive is a better word. The employee *clearly* held a grudge against this company. Read the warrant, the employee took this one very far. The employee was fired (allegedly, according to him) specifically for this incident. Don't you think that an incident that brought about such an adverse reaction may have had other factors? Don't you think the other side would tell the story much differently?

          This is all very simple, it really is. I have absolutely no idea what is not to understand.


        • neocognitism, on 05/19/2008, -4/+3Your response is too long. Normally I would "tldr" but this seems important to you, so I'll waste my time. Next time, try to reduce the maximum verbosity a tad.

          I do have to state now, that you must not do very well in school on long papers.

          "But, in your final response you stick to your guns and say that you *were* indeed addressing the entire Jewish population. You *were* indeed grouping a races misdeeds as a preemptive strike.
          You agree that a racist is one that, unprovoked, passes judgment on a race by judging their demerits and not their qualities."

          You should be using the word "bigoted" and not "racist." I wasn't passing judgement or stereotyping anyone. I was, as I said, rubbing it in their faces so that they are forced to acknowledge their own black sheep and systemic problems within their own religion. I then gave as an example the pedophile priest issue in the Catholic Church. You should listen to the ADL head Abe Foxman's words, when he speaks "racistly" and says everyone in the world is just jealous of how awesome and genius Jews are. He is the most antisemitic person I've heard this side of realjewnews.com.

          "The offense I took and the dismay I felt should come as no surprise. Jews as a group had *nothing* to do with this, yet Jews as a group (specifically Jewish misdeeds) were the "topic" being discussed!"

          Well, in this specific instance, it was an extreme example. I mean this involved a bunch of rabbis, and a kosher slaughterhouse, for Pete's sake! A very good analogy is the Catholic Church pedophile scandal. Instead of limiting it to just those priests, everybody assumed it was something systemic, some sort of conspiracy. The thing is, they were somewhat CORRECT.

          I never said the meth lab was "large," and unless they had a fume hood, which would not have been mobile, it would have stunk the place up bad, such that anybody walking in the area would have known. I don't see how they could have hidden it from the staff and management.

          It's a good thing you didn't wrongfully call me an antisemite, like all the Ziontologists who have been digging your comments in this thread have multiple times, and who you supposedly hate. Knowingly falsifying a claim of antisemitism is far more antisemitic than anything said on this site.

          By the way, to emphasize again, you're being supported by the worst shilling astroturfing Ziontologists on digg. The ones digging you right now are:

          BottledSunshine
          yonoz
          foopirata
          hadees

          We've wondered for months if the final three are the same person. They are definitely part of the same astroturfing team, and frequently appear together in comments, like they are now. Remember the CAMERA guys like Gilead Ini were busted on wikipedia for a more sophisticated version than just a few accounts, so don't doubt it could happen. It most definitely is.

          How does it feel to be an honorary supported member of a group of neocons you said you hate?
        • lordenlil, on 05/19/2008, -3/+5Dear Neocognitism,

          I will try to keep this one short and simple. I will use the term 'bigot' instead of the term 'racist'. I do just fine on school papers, though I appreciate your concern.

          I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you did not understand my argument because it was not written as well as it could have been. This was because I was more than slightly irked that reasonable and valid arguments proved impotent when confronted with your stance on this issue.

          Your argument that this incident is analogical to the Catholic priest scandal is laughable, at best. I need not waste time elaborating on the extent of the Catholic scandal, we both know how tremendous and far-reaching it was. I've demonstrated, twice, by means of reason, that this meth operation could not have been very large or far-reaching. That being said, this scandal was in fact a minor incident perpetrated first by criminals, and second by Jews (if, in fact, Jews were even involved). We both agreed that the judgment of "minor misdeeds" and their consequent association with larger "racial faults" is considered bigoted. I've demonstrated that this was a minor misdeed, it is clear that the judgments passed by a lot of the comments were applicable to the broader racial group, thus, the comments were bigoted and displayed "large amounts of ignorance".

          About the specific meth lab- you have been flip-flopping back and forth about this since the first comments. You first argued that it was a huge operation, then you scoffed at my comment about the meth lab being small ("Yes, a very minor meth lab, just a little meth lab, nothing out of the ordinary, we've all got them in our car trunks, right?"). After which you say "A meth lab could have been broken down in minutes and gone mobile". Your stance after that is that it very well may have been huge, and then hosed down. Now your stance is that it was not necessarily large. At this point I am unsure of what you believe the operation may have looked like.

          And finally, about my being "an honorary supported member of a group of neocons". Firstly and most strikingly, it seems that one of the largest complaints you have with the neocons is their 'astroturfing', sticking together and upmodding or downmodding stories/comments. Shockingly, you say "We've wondered for months if the final three are the same person." Note the "We". Just as they are astroturfing, the same can undoubtedly be said about their counterparts. I have yet to notice all of them, but I have certainly noticed the pattern with Npodahertz and EmpororTitus. I don't know if the neocons are more organized, or if they are the same person- but it is undeniable that the same practice exists among proponents of the opposite agenda.
          I don't really care who diggs me up or down, I always believe in what I say. My self-approval and estimation of self-worth does not come from a small graphic in the corner of a comment box.
          And I will say this: I do not hate neocons, so long as they know what they believe, why they believe it, why it is rational and how it does not contradict other moral decisions they make. It is rare to find neocons that can accurately answer that, and as a result, I hate most neocons for leading contradictory and hypocritical lives. In the same vain, I am sure that 80% of anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian people can answer those questions either.

          In terms of hate- I only hate ignorance. Abandon ignorance, embrace reason, live by your principles, and I will have respect for you no matter what you believe.
        • neocognitism, on 05/19/2008, -4/+3I don't see the utility in continuing this "discussion." In my opinion, I no longer think you know what you are talking about, and misunderstand or misconstrue everything I've said. I've attempted to correct your misunderstandings, but to no avail, such that I feel you are talking to someone else and I'm just a spectator. What should I do, just continually point you back to my prior words with "the answer lies there?" I do so again now, with an infinite loop.

          I'm entirely comfortable ending this now, and even more comfortable with you foolishly concluding you are right, even though what that would mean is unclear since your overall reasoning is incoherent.

          I believe you are a Ziontologist, at this point, until shown otherwise. I also believe you are a kid who didn't/isn't do/doing well in school, which means your Ziontology is based on child-like emotions that you could outgrow with time. You're doing better than most of your troupe, but you have a ways to go.

          www.philipweiss.org

          "Cheers" & Go Obama Go!
        • lordenlil, on 05/20/2008, -3/+3What an exit-strategy. Reminds me of Karl Rove, to be perfectly honest. Deny, disregard, move along. Very professional. You should go into American politics, the GOP is looking for people like you.
          Again, your concern is appreciated but not necessary- with a 3.8 GPA from one of the top schools in the country, a dual-major in economics and political science, and specific concentration towards middle-eastern studies, your concern is not what I need.
          I see absolutely no flaws in my reasoning that led me to my conclusion. It is what we call sound-reasoning. I've carefully and successfully demonstrated the strength in my argument and the weaknesses and faults in yours. Though, I shouldn't take much credit- your argument was so contradictory it practically disproved itself.
          And yes, I am perfectly content leaving things here. An apology from you for the -what was successfully demonstrated to be- bigoted comments would have been nice, but it's become over-abundantly apparent that you are not the kind of person that admits defeat when defeated, or apologizes when an apology is in order. It is not to your credit.
        • neocognitism, on 05/20/2008, -4/+3*chuckle* the truth comes out, you ARE wrongfully calling me an antisemite, since I'm a "bigot" towards Jews. You're pathetic, and now a proven antisemite. Nice job, bigot.

          If you somehow come away from this truly convinced of what you just said, then I tip my hat to your powers of delusion, be they conscious or not.
        • lordenlil, on 05/20/2008, -3/+5You are deluded. My argument uses nothing but the simplest forms of reason that should come easy to anyone with a developed consciousness, but it is apparently too complicated for you. I have said time and again that I do not your comments above were anti-semitic, but that your comments took the same form as bigoted comments. The motive was not bigotry, but idiocy and vindictiveness.

          ^^I don't expect you to understand that, I really don't. The startlingly naked truth is that this simple 1-2 step of reason is beyond your grasp.

          It is clear to me that you have an agenda. You pick fights, you insult, you call names, you throw accusations, you deny, you provoke, you [try to] intimidate, you condescend, and most significantly- you do not accept valid and acceptable arguments built on reason.
          Your obsession with anti-semitism and name-calling is astounding, in the least. You clearly have a sincere, deep-rooted, obsession with anti-semitism. Your fixation is so burningly intense that it has far surpassed rational, sane judgment. Obviously, this obsession will not retreat when confronted with reason. That's a problem- but your problem.
        • neocognitism, on 05/20/2008, -3/+3You sound a lot like another Ziontologist digger. He also would go on and on about logic and reason when he was completely illogical and only superficially reasonable, and always totally wrong. In fact I think you might be him. I'm having trouble remembering, it's been awhile. Oh yeah. wpi97. Are you wpi97?

          Obsessed? You're the one who called me an antisemite, but as I pointed out the sad truth is you are one, just like all your Ziontologist "Greater Israel" scumbag friends who are digging you up. They always dugg up wpi97 too.

          Astroturfing is just so sexy. I wonder if you have any understanding of what you're doing. I mean, you've modified your shtick to sound a bit more understanding and progressive, but when you arrive at the same absurd "Greater Israel" conclusions it just makes you seem schizophrenic. Political conversations are not a state function, they're a path function.
        • lordenlil, on 05/20/2008, -3/+4You are so paranoid at my being an agent of the government, an impersonator, a liar, a paid employee of a pro-Israel agenda- it is making you sound ridiculous. I am a normal person with no agenda. This is my first digg account. You are bordering on delusional paranoia.

          I didn't call you an anti-semite. In fact, I went out of my many times to *not* call you an anti-semite. But what