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142 Comments
- BullyJack, on 10/12/2007, -24/+49I know about the prisoners in Israel. The main prisoner that Hezbollah wants released is guilty of smashing in the skull of a five-year-old child in Haifa. I disagree with trading hostages for monsters like that, even if I was one of the hostages.
- helix400, on 10/12/2007, -13/+37You must be new here. Let me give you a Digg summary what consistutes proof.
Speculation = proof
Motive = proof
Hearsay = proof
Unnamed sources = proof
A guy's argument that agrees with yours = proof
Since this story has speculation, motive, hearsay, and unnamed sources he's proved himself 4 times over. What more could you want? - DawgDaze, on 10/12/2007, -10/+33Hmm... so in a time when we're fighting terrorists, we talk to Israel about fighting terrorists, and this is surprising!?!? We should fully and openly support any country's efforts to route out terrorism and terrorist supporting dictatorships in and around their respective countries. My reaction: good!
- syberghost, on 10/12/2007, -9/+27OMFG, our close military ally gets ready to engage the terrorist organization with the record for 2nd-most Americans killed in a single terrorist attack, and they talk to us first?
They get ready to embark on a bombing campaign, and they talk to the country that supplies them the bombs and is going to need to send them a lot more soon?
They get ready to attack an organization that they know to be a puppet of a power that has long-range ballistic missiles, and they talk to the country that signed an MoA in 1998 to help them if they're attacked with medium-range or longer ballistic missiles first?
Conspiracy! Halliburton! Halliburton! Halliburton! - boazg, on 10/12/2007, -47/+64if you lived in Israel, you'd understand that even a dead soldier is not something we leave in the hands of the enemy, but we make our best efforts to bring them to a Jewish burial (or if they are not Jewish, a military burial)
this includes and has included in the past trading thousands of imprisoned terrorists and usually a few of the ones who did really bad stuff like killed 4 year old kids with a knife, and often a mastermind or two.
this is a very painful issue with Israel and we will go to war to prevent these further abductions. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19You forgot:
proof = wtf, conspiracy! - weeFred, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20@KWhat
The UN were supposedly there to monitor the border and monitor the disarmament of hezbollah, so says resolution 1559. Of course this didn't happen as the UN is spineless. This whole war would of been avoided if the UN had made both sides stick to the deal, instead of just waiting til the Israelis withdrew and then not holding hezbollah to it's word. - BullyJack, on 10/12/2007, -12/+24Most invasions start with bombings.
- superstewy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16This just in!
President Bush was the one who kidnapped the 2 soldiers! - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18Eh? You linked to a story on a completely different subject. That's why you got modded down (plus people HATE dupe police anyway).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Do what? Write my congressman? Rally a Sheehan-ish protest? Start stupid conspiracy theories and spread them on the mis-information super highway? Or better yet just post something on Digg telling people to do something?
The people voted their leaders into power (yeah, yeah... I know) and now the people's chosen leaders are doing what they see is best for the their country and the world. Doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean it's what the people wanted when they elected the person.
I'm sick of hearing that "Do Something" crap - everyone says it but no one ever backs it up with a worthwhile idea. - elebrio, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Aidenaq tries to word these stories like they are a bad thing. You will notice he accounts for 50% of the promoted stories in the Political News section.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@Helix400:
You forgot:
"Guy's article is against someone or something you don't like." == proof
Facts != proof - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I don't know, I've seen just as much flaming in a MAC vs. PC post.
- Jaymoon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Planned or not, it was only a matter of time.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11@blackjack75:
Um, No. The reason they are terrorists is because they use random violence and the deliberate targeting of civilians to spread terror in a population in order to force that population to do as the terrorist's wish.
Put simply, in deferrence to you, terrorists create terror to get their way.
They use things like bombs in markets and busses. They kidnap, kill, rape, and torture innocent citizens. The kill children.
Not negotiating with a someone does not make them a terrorist. Creating terror to get one's way makes one a terrorist. - rencheple, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I think it's a perfectly reasonable assumption (accusation, etc...) that Israel and its allies have gotten together on multiple occasions to plan just that: a ground offensive into Lebanon. Look at it this way: How many different plans did NATO have for the invasion of East Germany?
Hezbollah has been a constant enemy of Israel since 1982, in all that time, I am sure that Israel has had hundreds of contingency plans that dealt with everything from a ground assault in Lebanon to a nuclear strike against Syria. It just makes military sense to have reactionary, or preparatory, plans in place that they have vetted and have the resources to implement. When I was in the service, we had contingency plans for all kinds of stuff, including the North Korean invasion of South Korea. - alder, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@blackjack75:
"I am pretty sure that if the U.S.A had put all the pressure it could that's exactly what they would have got..."
Lebanon has already made a huge positive step a year ago, when the public united and forced the Syrians to (mostly) leave their country. The current government is moderate and thanks to it the outlook is pretty good.
The last thing the international community and/or the US wish now is to put too much pressure on the promising yet fragile Lebanese government. In fact, one of the specific requests of the American administration (yeah, the "trigger happy Bush administration") from Israel was to restrain itself so as not to bring the current Lebanese government down. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9The difference is that the US and Israel do it in uniforms. Hezbollah does it in civilian clothes surrounding themselves with innocent people.
I might just get a thumbs down for that one... - Bioshocker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Are you saying that because Russia is funding and supplying all these Arab countries?"
No, he's saying that Iran is being setup as the New Russia, in terms of funding and supplying and generally being the Great American Enemy. - emid, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Israel hasn't occupied Lebanon since 2001. You do not seem to realize why they entered the country the first time. They entered to stop the PLO from attacking Israel. You see the PLO had basically taken over Beirut. You say the Christians in Lebanon hate the Israelis. That is an interesting point of view, since the Christian Arabs allied themselves with Israel against the Muslim Arabs when Israel invaded. Maybe you should do some research!
- masterofshadows, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7well you see, arabic does not use the roman alphabet, often when we spell arabic words in a roman-based language they are spelled phoneticly, thus both hezbollah and hizbullah are correct, same with osama and usama. stop being a grammar troll and contribute something of value.
- Jomwilli, on 10/12/2007, -12/+19I highly doubt this was all planned. Where is the evidence? All I see is speculation.
- Tabris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Alternate spellings. It's like saying OMG ITS "COLOR" NOT "COLOUR" WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE USING A U IN THE WORD!!1one!
They're the same thing. - NoLeafClover, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9That's right, its all going according to plan. I read it in the Protocols of Zion, chapter 2. I got my free copy when I had my bar mitzvah. "Today son, you are a man, now here is a little story about how we will take over the world!!! Muhha ha haha"
That's right, crisis averted if all we did was ignore the unprovoked kidnapping of solider, or the firing of Katyusha rockets into civilian areas...wait ooops...i mean, if we just left Lebanon, like we did in 2000...oh wait, not that's not right...hold on...yeah OK, if we were just a stupid racist apartheid colonist no bid contract haliburton US teet suckler!
If the Lebanese would have disarmed Hezbollah as required by a UN resolution, then maybe they wouldn't be in the situation they were in. Or maybe if Hezbollah operated in areas other than civilian populations...
Go ahead, blame us evil blood drinking horn growing penny pinching joooooos. Then get your dumb ostrich head out of the sand and wake up to the reality of the world.
I'm going to consult my Elders of Zion appendix for how to comment further...be back in just bit, gotta check my account balance. - Sertorius, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7@emid
I take you for a sincere Jew and probably well read. However, I find that some of your historical allusions, if not all false, are particularly exaggerated or lack completeness.
First, you wrote, "Israel is a country that serves as a homeland for the Jewish people." What you failed to note is that this "homeland" was created by the secret conniving of perfidious British officials in the Foreign Office, representatives of Zionism and Baron Edmond de Rothschild. It went against the promise already made to the Arabs by the British to give them Palestine in exchange for their military help against the Turks (that is, if Britain were victorious against the Germans). A special investigation of Syrian-Palestinian sentiment had been ordered by President Wilson in 1919. An appeal for such an investigation had been made by the Arab leader Feisal at the Paris Peace Conference. This investigation never came off thanks to French opposition (see "Conquest through Immigration", by George W. Robnett). The original draft of the Balfour Declaration was prepared by Dr. Chaim Weizmann and his friends in London in the summer of 1917. It was amended slightly and released on November 2, 1917. The published version reads: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
Now, this leads to your next statement, "There is plenty of evidence to show that the VAST majority of Palestinian Arabs who lived in what is now Israel left voluntarily. They were instructed to leave by their religious leaders and the neighboring Arab leaders. This is a fact. They left under the presumption that the invading Arab armies would come and annihilate the Jewish population, and that they would come back to take their houses."
Joseph Weitz one of the architects of the Zionist settlement wrote in his memoirs, "Among ourselves it must be clear that there is no place in the country for both peoples together...With the Arabs we shall not achieve our aim of being independent people in this country. The only solution is Eretz Israel, at least the west part of Eretz Israel, without Arabs..." [see Uri Davis] To expel the Palestinians from their homes, farms, and villages by sheer terror was the purpose of the massacres. (These hideous facts certainly contradict the clause in the Balfour Declaration in which the Jews will not prejudice the rights of the non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine.)
On April 9, 1948, "the Revisionist Zionist Military Organization (Irgun Tzevai Leumi -IZL), led by Menahem Begin, and LEHI (Fighters for the Freedom of Israel) led by Yitzhak Shamir, attacked Deir Yassin with some 130 men and murdered approximately 250 men, women, and children." [Israel - An Apartheid State, by Uri Davis, Zed Books, London and NJ, 1987, from the Introduction]
Then occurs the massacre at al-Duwayma in 1948 by IDF (ZAHAL) in which 80-100 Arabs, women and children were killed." [Ibid.]
The Israeli historian Aryeh Yitzhaki admits that during the course of the "War of Independence" there were about ten major massacres committed (50 or more people murdered) and about a hundred smaller massacres (of individuals or small groups). [see further, "Not only Deir Yassin" by Guy Erlich in the May 6, 1992 edition of the Hebrew daily Ha'ir]
Yitzhaki, interviewed by Erlich, said , "For many Israelis it was easier to find consolation in the lie, that the Arabs left the country under orders from their leaders. This is an absolute fabrication. The fundamental cause of their flight was their fear from Israeli retribution and this fear was not at all imaginary." [Ibid]
(These hideous facts certainly contradict the clause in the Balfour Declaration in which the Jews will not prejudice the rights of the non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine.)
Then you have the gall to say, "The idea that Israel has a lower standard of human rights versus the entire Middle East is laughable." I shall refrain from laughing. - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13You were modded down because it's lame to point out that a story is a dupe. Bury it yourself and move on. I don't think I've seen a story lately that hasn't had at least one person point out that it's a dupe. It happens, get over it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Oh yes, you are right :-|
The U.S. instigated the ware between these two countries :-|
Yep. We went over there and staged a raid on an Israeli post, killed eight soldiers and kidnapped two. :-|
Oh wait, didn't Hezbollah claim responsibility for that and say they were going to keep the soldiers until Israel released other terrorists from jail? :-| - emid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6My opinion on this matter is that many people who speak out against Israel do in actuality hold latent anti-semitic feelings. You are correct however in stating that speaking out against Israel is not synonymous with anti-semitism. All I would ask is that your comments are logically constructed and not virulent in tone. This should obviously apply to both sides of the argument. I believe that there are many misconceptions about what is the reality of the situation, and that only constructive dialog will help dispel certain myths. Anyone who insults you in a reactionary manner should just be ignored.
- margaraeta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6So what? Many nations talk to the US before they do military operations that may involve American policy. Seeing as the US is constantly being asked by both sides (Arabs and Israelis) to help mitigate a road to peace, it is standard operating procedure to consult with allies on such an event. If anything the fact that the Lebanese government is so weak that it hasn't been able to control Hezbollah itself, *that* enabled the attack too. UN resolutions have been in place telling them to do something about terrorist groups, and they have been unable.
Also, the US cannot just lean on a nation and certainly not a terrorist group to get them to stop anything. States have sovereignty and terrorist groups believe that dying for a cause is a noble thing. The US is not omnipotent. It operates under grave constraints just like any other country. This article is another case of "look there's a conspiracy". Israel will do what it wants, just like Hezbollah will do as it pleases. - elebrio, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11If we WEREN'T meeting with our ally to discuss how to stop a growing terrorist threat in the region all of our leaders should have been impeached.
- Jomwilli, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Irrefutable Proof, right?
"Quoting a US government consultant, Hersh said:"
"An unnamed Pentagon consultant told Hersh:"
With all do respect to Mr. Hersh, I don't think his sources are so concrete. Of course Israel discusses terrorist strategies with the U.S. and of course we share all of our intel with them, but this doesn't mean that the U.S. gov't is trying to pull Iran into confrontation through Hezbollah. That would be giving the Bush Admin too much credit for sure. - garrettjaxx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9Bush spent an hour lying on "Meet the Press" the other day. That's just what politics is about.
- MtnScott, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Contingency Planning, Whats the big deal? We have contingency plans for almost every possible scenario. This probably fell into Hezbollah being aggressive along border ---> Offensive that we saw. Israel being a US ally, of course, ran it by us to verify we would continue to support them. They probably have ran the nuclear option by us as well.
- faskill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Feel free to click on the "Technology" tab and leave us be with voicing our political views as well as excercising and enjoying our inalienable right to free speech. Once again, I implore you to navigate to an alternate section, oh, and your mother is fat.
- RableRableSnarf, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Your right, Israel had no obligation to drop the leaflets, but out of their unmerited generosity they gave the civilians (who should have forced Hezbollah to leave, or left themselves anyway) a warning. Israel greatly inconveniences itself for the safety of the civilians who are mostly indoctrinated by Hezbollah anyway, and goes out of it's way to please the rest of the world, who couldn't care less about Israel's survival. Israel has a heck of a lot more patience than I would, and I respect them for that.
- helix400, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11"Facts != proof"
What's sad, is that's not a joke. This thread is a perfect example.
Someone said this and a previous linked story are completely different. He's currently sitting at +4. I pointed out that both stories are the same, and both rely on the journalists Seymour Hersh's claim. I'm sitting at -3.
Aaah Digg....where facts have a liberal bias. And if they ever have a conservative bias, they're quickly buried so nobody will see it. - Meep3D, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7The only solution the Palestinans will be happy with is the death of every jew in Israel (can you say 'racist') despite the fact jews have been in that area for 3000+ years. They have been offered an independant state including all of the West Bank + Gaza as well as right to return or financial compensation (read up on Oslo).
All Israel wants is for them to stop blowing themselves up in cafes, bars + busses. It's willing to bend over backwards to their demands, but until all the Jews in Israel kill themselves they are going to keep blowing themselves up.
Believe it or not the checkpoints + walls exist to stop them killing innocent people. If they stopped suicide bombing constantly I am fairly sure the walls + checkpoints would be gone fairly quick.
If every Jew in Israel threw down their weapons they would all be dead in days. If every Palestinian threw down their weapons there would be peace + prosperity.
As long as the only goal Palestinians have is "jew killin'" I am supporting Israel 100%. If they can come up with some reasonable demands I would be inclined to support them, but they just want blood, not peace. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Note that its probably true, America and Israel do not want Iran to have nukes, who would for that matter, and I'm sure America and Israel are setting up the stage to attack Iran's infrastructure. This is almost totally obvious. If you all don't like it, go live in Iran for a bit, tell me how you like it.
- catfud, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10@jramos
it is an individual
the UN is America (to do all the work) and a bunch of kvetching housewives (every other member of the UN) - raitchison, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Up until this latest incident the Israelis had been out of Lebanon for more than 6 years.
And don't start spouting the ***** about the Shebaa farms because Lebanon didn't even claim that as their until after the Israeli pullout. - ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -12/+15Ok, so its basically saying that an invation of some sort was being planned because of an upcoming threat, and then that threat acted before they invaded. I see this as obvious, yet posative news.
- Sertorius, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8@nocountries
You've hit on something quite pertinent to the discussion, which many American Neocons and Zionist cheerleaders ignore and probably most here let float over their heads. You wrote, "Why is not the Palestinian Authority, under the democratically-elected Hamas, considered part of the free world, or even recognised by the US?" This is a relevant question which should be answered by those who insist that DEMOCRACY is the panacea for the world. For all of the huzzahs, rah-rah-rahs, gushing praise, and worship for democracy by the U.S. and Israel, they have not recognized the freely elected HAMAS. They do not consider them part of the free world. Instead, sanctions are placed against them. Bullets begin flying, again. It reveals, absolutely, the real mindset of these DEMOCRACY evangelicals. It is complete hypocrisy. We are governed by hypocrites: stinking, lying, hypocrites. From this sewage of hypocrisy flows the continuous injustices against the Palestinians (and the Lebanese and the Iraqis). - cantoral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I read Hersh's article in The New Yorker yesterday. I read some of the thoughtful posts in this thread, and skipped through the ravings and rantings unavoidable in a free forum like this. I am not an expert on the Israeli war against the Arabs. I just remember that in 1967 when I was in college we talked in between classes about the success of the Israeli Army against the regular Arab armies. Unfortunately now there is no regular war in Lebanon and Israel cannot win a guerrilla war without the hearts and minds of the Arab street.
Seymour Hersh has done his job as an investigative reporter, there are few left. All we hear are propaganda campaigns from both sides. Truth will make us free. - cantoral, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"The Israelis were able to defeat all the Arab countries in six days in 1967 but here they could not defeat the resistance in a month. These resistance men would come out of the ground and shoot back. They are still here."
These are words of the British journalist, Robert Fisk, from Lebanon. - Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate."
Source : TIMESONLINE --
Stuff like this renders any debate on the issues even more pointless than it would be ordinarily. Many of the people here have a very obvious agenda.
It is unfortunate, as they unduly influence the unbiased
and create the impression that Israel are the 'good guys' versus the 'evil
arabs'. Unfortunately a lot of Americans, with their unquestioning media
and 'with us or against us' leader, fail to recognise the subtleties and
shades of grey inherint in all the current conflicts in this troubled region. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5You're the one shouting DO SOMETHING - have you?!
- BeatnikDude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Seymour Hersh is well respected and I have seen this story all around today, why does it get marked inaccurate on Digg? I think we need to be able to flag inaccurate on a post flagged inaccurate, i.e.. "Warning: The Content in the following Flag May be Inaccurate( Warning: The Content in this Article May be Inaccurate)"
- wormhole, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6This has to be the one story today that just makes me say...'Well, duh!'. After all, Britain was complaining that we were sending arms through their airfields without following 'proper procedure'. They fly US jets, they fire US missiles, and they drive US tanks. Obviously we'd have a say in the matter!
- garrettjaxx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Disarm Hezbollah!! Yeah that is what they should have done in 1939 too! " Uhh yeah, so Mr. Hitler, umm you seem dangerous, sooo can you just hand over the guns and your ideology and maybe just move to, like umm Jamaica???" Yeah that could work.
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