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- IphtashuFitz, on 06/02/2008, -2/+42Wow, what an interesting read. So the suits were afraid of having 33 aired as the first episode because it was so dark that it might turn off viewers. And a focus group that watched some of the episodes rated BSG the worst series ever. The company that ran the focus groups said nobody liked any of the characters, it's too dark & scary, and simply shouldn't be a series.
Sounds to me like all excellent reasons for not using focus groups, or doing a much better job of picking the right people for focus groups. I absolutely LOVE BSG, like the characters, and like how it's dark/scary. But then I'm not your typical tv kind of guy and can't stand "popular" shows like so-called reality tv (American Idol, Dancing with the stars, etc) or network sit coms. I haven't seen any new programming on the major networks in years that I actually like. Most of the shows that I prefer start out on fringe networks like Sci Fi because ABC, NBC, CBS, etc. always end up with the same drivel year after year. - yoris, on 06/02/2008, -1/+25Gotta love this piece (Moore commenting on the original Battlestar Galactica):
The show was about an apocalypse. The show opens with a genocide, an apocalyptic destruction of 12, count em, 12 planets. Billions of human lives are lost. The survivors heroically run away, fleeing an implacable enemy that is determined to destroy them no matter what, and they're looking for a mythical place called Earth.
And the first place they go is the casino planet. - Morghin, on 06/02/2008, -0/+20I think the fact that the focus groups that called BSG the worst show ever clearly points out how irrelevant they've become, just like how daft executives have been and always will be for screwing over good shows.
- seantubridy, on 06/02/2008, -2/+17Anyone who puts together such a kick-ass show and then does a podcast for the fans for each week's episode (while smoking and drinking scotch) gets my vote.
And as a side note, every site with long articles or lists should have the full page button like Wired does, so we don't have to click through a bunch of pages. Yeah, I'm talking to you, Cracked. - ozroy, on 06/02/2008, -4/+19I think this is the best show on TV at the moment. I don't always agree with its philosophy, but it's still really clever and engaging.
I can't wait to see how they end this series. I think 4 seasons is probably perfect. Unlike the unecessarily protracted Lost. - Jambi, on 06/02/2008, -0/+8Hey now, don't be too hard on focus groups. Thanks to them, we got aliens in the latest Indiana Jones film! Oh yeah, and Shia Lebouf. Focus groups love him.
- brstilson, on 06/02/2008, -2/+10This is why ratings are such *****. When the TV network wants to get rid of a show, they ***** around with its time slot, effectively "shaking off" it's audience, then they start pre-empting it for really ***** programming until everyone loses interest.
Although since it's being cancelled anyway after season 4, I don't understand why SciFi wouldn't just show the whole damn season together. Sometimes, I am sure that channel makes decisions based on how much they'll piss me off. - oilcan, on 06/02/2008, -0/+8some story concepts require a large story arc. what is battlestar galactica without the destruction of the 12 colonies and a search by the survivors for the lost 13th colony and earth? why would you purposefully remove the intricacies from an epic tale in order to, what, make every episode standalone and pointless? I can't comprehend why anyone would want the show dumbed down in this way O_o
- rabidhominid, on 06/02/2008, -0/+8I greatly prefer the endlessly winding plots of BSG to Star Trek's spacial anomaly/bumpy-forehead alien of the week for seven seasons. Then at the end of the series nothing has been accomplished.
What was TNG about? Nothing. No over arching plot or direction. Just anomalies and forehead alien BS, neither of which has any lasting effect on anything.
DS9? It had the Dominion for the last half of the series but before that it was more anomalous foreheads.
Voyager? Getting back to the Alpha quadrant isn't much of a plot. More time warps and inconsequential alien encounters.
I still love me some Trek but BSG is welcome change from the recycled plot hell that was Star Trek. - mklopez, on 06/01/2008, -1/+8Found via http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/06/01/ron-moore-interv ...
- Xondar, on 06/02/2008, -0/+4The use of stedi-cam (that's what the "herky-jerky" camera is called) has been in vogue since the late '90s. It's part of the whole reality thing that people like so much.
- JAFFA, on 06/02/2008, -0/+4As a Johnny-come-lately to the whole BSG I found the interview riveting. And in one of those cosmic coincidences I had literally just watched the episode where Billy dies so luckily didnt have it spoiled. The show rocks.
Every now and then the US produces something that the rest of the world can relate to and this is one of those things. It makes it all the more precious too. - Brododium, on 06/02/2008, -0/+4Wow... long comments, shows what kind of person watches BSG
I've yet to delve into Season 4, but I'm itching to find out what happens, especially to Galen and Cally. - Jambi, on 06/02/2008, -1/+5So basically what you're saying is that all the subplots, supposed secrets, whatever's rattling around in Baltar's head, etc were pretty much all a tease, and the whole plot is basically a bunch of characters spouting off crap until someone blows something up? And people wonder why no one likes American TV anymore.
- codemonkeysteve, on 06/02/2008, -0/+3"Moore: Is that the backstory to Knight Rider? Really?
Wired: Yeah.
Moore: Oh, wow. I didn't remember that."
Dugg for hilarity. - garreh, on 06/02/2008, -1/+4Is it true after the next 2 episodes BSG is taking another long break until 2009?! please god no...
- Mier, on 06/02/2008, -1/+4I always had a problem with the idea of building a machine that could turn on its builders. Engineers usually build a failsafe into a dangerous machine and I think robots would count as being potentially dangerous.
- nominalgeek, on 06/02/2008, -1/+4Character development strains the simple minds and short attention spans.
- oilcan, on 06/02/2008, -2/+5it's called writer's strike. not all the shows could be written and produced because of the timing of the writer's strike. That being said, the writer's strike ends up being beneficial to BSG in the long run, because the primary writers of the show worked off the clock and rewrote the second half of the season to be even more spectacular.
Oh, and one more thing. Ending after the fourth season is a good thing. This show doesn't get to wallow in trying to come up with more subplots unnecessarily long. This is not so much of a canceling of the show as a planned conclusion. - nominalgeek, on 06/02/2008, -0/+3Great Read, Thanks Ron for bringing us BSG and (the good parts of) DS9!
- BoneheadFarker, on 06/02/2008, -1/+4You obviously haven't watched all of TNG and DS9. They were both one huge arc. TNG had humanity on trial by The Q Continuum for all 7 seasons. DS9 had Sisko going from Starfleet commander to the son of a Prophet over 7 seasons.
Voyager I had no love for...you can bash that all you want... - zadadka, on 06/02/2008, -0/+3...and yet "33" won awards, and is still one of the few episodes you can go back to and enjoy in isolation.....repeatedly.
Completely agree with you guys about the focus groups.... these people kill great series, look at the early and foolish demise of Enterprise & Deadwood....great series' followings are built, and are rarely instant successes. - KSUdesigner, on 06/02/2008, -0/+3I'll agree with you that season 3 got pretty boring, but if you haven't watched any of season 4 yet then you probably should. This last episode was one of the best of them all, and things can only get more interesting from here. I'll leave the spoilers out of this, but some MAJOR things happened on this last episode.
- gregcotten, on 06/02/2008, -1/+4You are plagued with misinformation. WGA Strike. It's not the ratings.
- culbeda, on 06/02/2008, -4/+6Apparently you haven't even SEEN Lost Season 4. It has infinitely tighter than BSG at the moment and it has been far more engaging. Now I know Digg = BSG Fanboy Central, but I'm not afraid to say that last couple of episodes of BSG have been relatively weak, despite the attempted, major plot twists. The show has always had a hard time deciding whether it's a Sci-Fi serial or soap opera set in space. But lately, it's been almost entirely the latter.
- quanta88, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2Ronald Moore was a great writer for TNG and DS9. He co-wrote TNG's series finale.
I remember an interview he gave about the Dominion War story arc on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - he had to fight for its existence with Paramount. They wanted the war wrapped up in 2-3 episodes. - nominalgeek, on 06/02/2008, -1/+3He didn't steal *****. It's called they both used the same special effect company and Glory Josh Whedon didn't invent the "Hand Held Camera"
- brstilson, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2Somebody better let Joss Whedon know he stole "herky-jerky" camera from Ricky Gervais
- txtphile, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2Excellent read. I never really knew who Ron Moore was before I started listening to the podcasts. But, after a half hour of listening to this guy wax nerdily over each character and motivation and camera movement and so on I realized, hey, he's one of us! Just another sci-fi fan who, by fate, or luck, or years of hard work convinced some MBA at Universal to give him a checkbook.
I think it illustrates one of the problems with television today. Business and art are natural enemies. - Nick519, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2they are also doing it for purely financial reasons. the BSG budget is the biggest chunk of scifi's money, so they argue that they "had" to split it up this way to spread the cost out between two fiscal years.
- IphtashuFitz, on 06/02/2008, -2/+4Chernobyl had failsafes. It blew up. Three Mile Island had failsafes. It didn't blow up but it did enough damage. The USS Scorpion was a submarine that it believed was destroyed by a torpedo that went haywire despite having failsafes. Give me time and I could probably provide a lot more examples of technology that fails despite having failsafes. Something as complex as a self-aware robot like a cylon would probably be so technologically complex that failsafes couldn't possibly account for every possible scenario. On top of that, being self-aware, it would only take one cylon to figure out how to bypass its own failsafes then it could show the other cylons how to do it as well.
- Xondar, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2Ron D. Moore is one of the big reasons that DS9 was so arc oriented. But I think that the basic premise of that show was kept throughout the entire series, from the first episode to the last. It was the most coherent Star Trek series.
- brstilson, on 06/02/2008, -0/+2"Chernobyl had failsafes. It blew up."
Chernobyl's "failsafes" were disabled and they were running a very dangerous test when it blew up. The plant was a cobbled-together mess and was far more unsafe than anything ever built since.
"Three Mile Island had failsafes. It didn't blow up but it did enough damage. "
It actually did zero damage outside the facility. The surrounding population got a radiation dose equal to that of one x-ray. Three Mile Island is an example of an astounding success in it's failsafe features. The core was surrounded by reinforced concrete which did what it was supposed to do: contain the radiation. Chernobyl did not have a reinforced concrete structure, and thus the explosion, heat, and radiation were not contained.
I really wish people would look into Chernobyl and Three Mile Island and actually do some research instead of parroting what they've heard from the rich, white, pampered environmentalists on TV. - IphtashuFitz, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Aside from Q putting TNG crew on trial in the first episode, making a few appearances throughout the shows run, and then appearing in the finale to try to tie everything together there was NOTHING in the entire run to even remotely imply that the whole series was about humanity being on trial. If you had watched all 7 seasons with the exception of the series finale you never would have figured that out on your own. As far as I'm concerned it was a pretty lame series finale that tried to tie 7 seasons of random plot lines together in one neat package.
- boombye, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1When a show is canceled, that means it got the boot. This show was negotiated with the intent to end the show on the writers' terms, rather than allow Sci-Fi the rights to drag it on for 10 seasons. Most of the first 10 episodes for this season were filmed before writer's strike, but since it's ended, they're now filming episode 16. (18 if you count BSG:Razor as eps 1&2)
- BoneheadFarker, on 06/02/2008, -2/+3While I could go deeper into the subtle nature of the plan, I'm pretty sure the basic plan is "Kill All Humans". You know...the plan they've been following throughout the whole show? Mind you this last season has switch to "Kill All Humans And Cylon Traitors", but the basic premise of "Kill All Humans" is the same.
- xstarsprinklesx, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1"Even Babylon 5 to a point"? Babylon 5 is probably the most serial show ever. And, largely for that reason, one of the best.
- NoNom, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1*Spoiler* (it's the first episode but I'll play it safe)
The reason the network saw "33" as being too dark was because the Olympic Carrier originally had people on board at the time of it's destruction.
Originally, Lee saw the crew of the carrier looking at him as he flew by. It was later changed to a shadowy hand in a single window.
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Olympic_Carrier
Frak Party Season 3 Finale podcast - anjinash, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1I am a fan of both Lost and BSG, with heavy leanings towards BSG as the better show n terms of writing and great characters. Thus is pains me to agree right now. Lost season 3 was a mess and was losing its' way while BSG was firing on all cylinders. Season 4 seems to have reversed that trend. Lost got really compelling this season while BSG is off to a pretty disappointing (though still far from *bad*) start for their final season. I'm hoping this has more to do with the writers' strike earlier this year than anything else, hence the second stretch of this season will be vastly improved. *crosses fingers*
To those who bitch about BSG being more soap opera than sci-fi... have you actually been watching the show? The sci-fi has always taken a back seat to the drama and characters. Some of BSGs best episodes were grounded in reality while some of the weakest elements have centered around the mythology of the show IMHO. It's the great characters that make you care about such goofy things as some magic arrow that points the way or off the wall hybrids spouting seemingly random riddles. The only reason the sci-fi elements work at all is because the characters sell it and you care about their plight.
- zadadka, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Oh frak.
Well, we know S4 is the last series, but do they have to screw around with it?
OK, mebbe the WGA strike does have an impact (I don't know if there is a direct correlation), but I see shows getting the rug pulled out from them because of awful scheduling....Bionic Woman was a very good example, two eps, then three weeks off before one ep, then another two week break (Super Bowl was one week), then another two eps...etc...how can a following for a series build with that lack of commitment from the networks? - djnikadeemas, on 06/03/2008, -0/+1Dugg for being brainwashed a Catholic and being reborn Agnostic.
- brstilson, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Oh God I soooo want to spoil it.....but I won't.
- BobSutan, on 06/03/2008, -0/+1I'd count Jericho as a good exception to the rule. The first season was frakking stellar!
- brstilson, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Major stuff happened but it was boring major stuff. I wanted to find out what happened to Roslyn, but nooooo. Now I have to wait until Friday.
- Dorian822, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1Ron Moore is one of the few producers that I respect and has the ability to make an evolving story with great twists without totally disinheriting the force behind the characters origins (ala Joss Whedon with BtVS by the 4th season). If I was Paramount wanting to save Star Trek I'd offer him all the money in the bank to rescue it.
- Xondar, on 06/02/2008, -0/+1I would argue that the phantom 6, the phantom Baltar, and the phantom Leoben are in fact NOT part of the Cylon's plan. In fact, phantom 6 has always maintained that she is an angel. From the first season, all the way to the fourth.
I'd say we can't say that all these subplots and secrets won't be concisely dealt with until the show wraps up. - combatgoose, on 06/02/2008, -0/+0Their plan is now to find earth.
Clearly you need to pay better attention.
This is still one of the best shows on TV. - oilcan, on 06/03/2008, -0/+0like you said, bro, failsafes mean nothing can ever possibly go wrong! hoorah for humanity, and our impassible final defense against anything that can possibly go wrong, the failsafe! yay!!
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