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eBay Removes Merchant Ability to Leave Feedback

blog.wired.com — Effective today, merchants cannot leave negative or neutral feedback for buyers. Needless to say, sellers are outraged, leading to calls for a boycott.

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  • ACwriter, on 05/20/2008, -15/+280One good thing to come of this is that honest buyers can leave a negative comment when it really is deserved without fear of hurting their feedback. Abuse will happen but I see this as a potentially positive step to weed out the bad vendors. Then again I may change my mind when/if I sell more than I buy.
    • Azimuth1, on 05/20/2008, -9/+98I've never understood why they don't just make it so that you only see the feedback they've given you once you've given them your feedback. Surely that just solves the problem completely?
      • munkyxtc, on 05/20/2008, -12/+18Major issue with that is if you left me feedback and I knew it wouldn't show up if I don't leave feedback for you why would I leave you feedback at all then?
        • maninalift, on 05/21/2008, -3/+20You could be given a fixed period of time in which you can give feedback after which feedback on you is posted regardles of whether you took the opportunity to leave feedback
        • microdude431, on 05/21/2008, -64/+12Thumbs down just for you because of your Obama avatar.
        • sparr, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3obvious addendum... if one side doesn't leave feedback before the time limit, then the other side's feedback gets published.
        • JudgeMonkey, on 05/21/2008, -4/+12Ignoring what someone says based upon a completely unrelated view. Yeah, you're open minded and sociable.
        • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3time limit of a month then forced to public.
        • 11oops, on 05/21/2008, -0/+7And what of any other users that get scammed during that timeframe because they weren't able to be warned that the seller wasn't shipping out?
        • Refridgeron, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2That's mindbottling
        • KableKiB, on 05/22/2008, -2/+0bottling? lol
      • Jabertsohn, on 05/20/2008, -5/+34Making the seller leave feedback first would be a simpler solution.
        • 11oops, on 05/21/2008, -2/+8And if the seller doesn't leave feedback?
        • Jabertsohn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+8Give them a time limit?
        • 11oops, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2So, the buyer's feedback won't show unless the seller leaves feedback. But, if the seller doesn't leave any feedback then the buyer's is shown after 60 days. And what if a seller is running scam auctions and only shipping out boxes of rocks instead of whatever you bought? Now that gives them 60 full days from the first sale to continue running the scam without any prospective buyers receiving any advanced warning since the feedback isn't showing.
        • fsweep, on 05/21/2008, -2/+0Ebay jumped the shark when the promoted more and more "professional" sellers with ebay "stores." I would love a search filter that only showed small-time sellers rather than the pros. It seems a huge percentage of "merchants" merely use ebay as an advertising vehicle for selling items at full MSRP or avg. street prices--- and the same can be found at amazon or anywhere else on the internet.

          These sellers don't care about leaving feedback anyway. And moreover, they don't care who they sell to. So it hardly matters to anyone other than the freaks who think they need a feedback rating of 100% with 1000+ feedbacks to get into heaven.
        • puter, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0Actually, I find Amazon to be much lower in price compared to ebay or other stores.

          The only exception with ebay is if you put a bunch of time and energy into sniping you can sometimes save 10% or so over Amazon.
      • yabos, on 05/21/2008, -1/+21Sellers often hold positive feedback over your head and if you don't leave them any feedback they won't for you.
    • sockpuppets, on 05/20/2008, -30/+10A+++ MADE FIRST POST AND DIDN"T MENTION LOLCATS OR APPLE PRODUCTS WILL READ AGAIN!!
      • funkytaco, on 05/20/2008, -4/+15I am so glad I can leave you feedback on here.
    • drugged, on 05/20/2008, -1/+9I think that is THE good thing to come of this.
    • tehgoatman, on 05/20/2008, -1/+63Yeah this happened to me.. i had a seller flat out refuse to send me the item and they only partially refunded my paypal money.. i thought other buyers deserved to know this was a shady seller and of course they slap me back with a flatout "no reason for negative, bad ebayer" and negative feedback and of course an email request that same day to mutually remove feedback.. thats the game they used to play.
      • sleepwalkers, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5But what about ***** buyers who do the same thing?
        • puter, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6if a buyer refuses to pay the seller can relist, if a seller refuses to ship the buyer is out the money they gave the seller.

          Much worse for the buyer if the seller is not trustworthy
        • Aokubidaikon, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Puter, you're under the false impression that listing on eBay is free.
          If a buyer refuses to pay then eBay refunds the Final Value Fee, but the seller just lost money on the listing fee.
    • ahalbert, on 05/20/2008, -2/+19I totally agree with your thought, i have had the situation where i have paid for something, never got it, left negative feedback and then got slapped back for doing nothing wrong. I don't know if this is a good solution because it harms sellers......I think that whoever marks a negative feedback first should automatically disable the others chance until they can prove that they had shipped or paid for the item.
      • puter, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0I had a seller run a scam. He built up his feedback then did several very large auctions selling DVD-R's, and he didn't ship a single one

        We (my friend and I) avoided your issue by finding his name, address, and some financial info and emailing him with the information and telling him that it's his choice whether or not he shipped our product.

        We got our product, others didn't...and we avoided retribution feedback =P
    • paradexes, on 05/20/2008, -1/+24Honestly, I have not used Ebay in almost a year now. I had a merchant leave me a negative review after we BOTH agreed over the phone that there was a problem with the item they sent me. They sent me an intel motherboard that was made for emachines. The part of it being for emachines was not mentioned. And for anyone who has ever tried to flas the BIOS on one of those things to a normal intel BIOS will know it is next to impossible. At any rate I was pissed that I did not get what I paid for which was an INTEL not an emachines mobo (again not mentioned on the page). I addressed it with the merchant and put the info on the feedback, and got a horrible review back. It was the only bad review I ever got, but it left me with a bad experience.

      After that I just decided it was worth my money and peace of mind to just go to newegg or the other sites like it and just buy my stuff that way. I have not regretted that decision since. But then thats just my experience.
      • lbdinh, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4If you're a boutique guitar amp buyer like me, a lot of the stuff are so rare that I can't buy it at regular stores. I want to boycott ebay but I can't. It's like crack.
        • thisisectoplasm, on 05/21/2008, -6/+2eBay can be great for buyers. It's the sellers that get screwed over.
      • puter, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2Amazon.

        It's easier, more trustworthy, and I find generally cheaper.
    • thatsmyaibo, on 05/21/2008, -12/+5I am not a fan of this. A lot of times I wait until I get feedback before leaving it as some sort of ransom. I have been ***** over too many times on eBay. Buying and selling should be a 2 way street.
      • JimmyTheClam, on 05/21/2008, -2/+9And it's douchebag sellers like you that use feedback extortion that caused this policy to be enacted in the first place.
        My job as a buyer is to pay you as soon as I can, and to read the product description and ask questions before I place my bid - the rest is up to the seller!

        If you do a crappy job, and then threaten me with retaliatory feedback if I don't keep my mouth shut, then I want you off E-Bay entirely.
        • satanatnmtedu, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4Pretty much. I have been threatened with negative feedback when I left neutral feedback. The seller offered for us to mutually withdraw. But, I paid within minutes of winning the auction. So, there was no reason for the seller to give me anything but positive feedback. I gave neutral (not negative) feedback because it took a long time to get the item and the seller demanded feedback before I had gotten the item.

          I do agree that feedback should not be viewable until after both people leave feedback. And, if a certain amount of time passes, neither seller nor buyer should be able to leave feedback - say 2 weeks.
        • thatsmyaibo, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Way to judge and come to conclusions. It goes the other way too. I have never extorted another on eBay. There have been times where I have received negative feedback for no reason so the buyer can claim he never got the item. Now I don't give buyers an ultimatum but if they are kind enough to give me feedback I'll do the same. I just want to know why I am getting negative feedback because I always go out of my way to make sure the items are in perfect condition and sent in a timely manner. Buyers can be just as deceiving as sellers.
      • jer2eydevil88, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2I used to sell some on ebay and I found I HAD to hold feedback from buyers until they left me positive feedback. Otherwise you get the scammer that leaves negative feedback claiming the package never arrived. You can sort it out by complaining to eBay and showing tracking numbers (if you have them) but in the end your auctions suffer until they take action.

        I don't sell on eBay anymore though because Craigslist is actually much friendlier for selling (at least for my crap).
    • necrosis, on 05/21/2008, -9/+4I'm sorry to say that ANYONE who says this is a good idea is a complete ***** moron. People are scammed every minute of every ***** day on ***** and the only thing a seller can do is leave that mother ***** a negative feedback. WHAT IS EBAY THINKING!?!?!?! Now Nigerian scammers can try and screw you over, and if you are too smart, they will just move on to the next with the same account. Basically eBay is making it easier for every little scammer to make possibly more money with less work...
      • puter, on 05/21/2008, -1/+11) Nigerian scammers try to scam you through your email too...if the seller is stupid enough to fall for it, then they shouldn't be allowed to have email either.

        2) Buyers send money, then sellers send the product. how exactly does a seller get scammed? Either they get the money and send the product...or they don't and report it.

        Seriously, what's the problem? If you have a bad buyer, you report them...but you don't really lose money on it. Buyers on ebay are at much more financial risk than sellers...and if you're a good seller your rating will be high. A buyer that sees 1,000 positive feedbacks and one or two negatives will not be concerned with the negatives, so the buyer can't threaten you.

        If you're a bad seller, can't get anything right, won't give deserved refunds, then you deserve the negative feedback...should not be giving retribution feedback...and can go cry somewhere else.
    • my10cent, on 05/21/2008, -3/+6Are you serious? so what am I supposed to do next time someone buys an item from me only to retract the payment 3 days later and keep the item? how am I supposed to warn other sellers against those buyers? and there is A LOT of them on Ebay.
      • 11oops, on 05/21/2008, -6/+6READ EBAY'S NEW POLICY. It's that simple. You can report a buyer for retracting the payment after the fact. ALL SELLERS can opt-in to block buyers that OTHER SELLERS have reported. Are you too ***** retarded to read, or do you just like to bitch and moan?

        From http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200805.shtml#2008-05- ...
        -"In addition to expanding the 3-day block to 7 days, we are introducing a new Buyer Requirement that will allow sellers to block buyers who have been reported by other sellers for eBay buying policy violations (such as Feedback abuse, or email threats)."
        -"We're expanding the scope of the existing Buyer Requirement for unpaid items, so that it supports more comprehensive blocking of buyers who have a history of non-payment."
        -"We've improved the process that sellers use to report buyers for policy violations."
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -4/+5Wait a minute? HOW can they retract the payment? did a claw come from out of the sky jack you buy your feet upside down and shake the lunch money out of your pokets?

        OH wait you mean you never RECIEVED the payment. You sent an item WITHOUT securing payment for said item. WHO's Fault is that?

        An e-mail saying you recieved payment from XXXXX is NOT a payment. its a NOTICE of payment.

        A LINE entry on a bank account that paypal has TWO WAY ACCESS to is NOT a payment its a NOTICE of payment.

        You go and GET that money then and ONLY then do you ship that item. Period.

        OH and where is your tracking numbers Registered Mail Reciept and Insurance reciept?

        OH wait you decided to save a few dollars and not get those?

        Who's fault is that? sure as hell not mine.
        • ch33sehead, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1That's why they invented credit card chargebacks. Also, PayPal is quite douchebaggy and almost always sides with the buyer whenever they file a claim, no matter what. Even if the buyer does not even respond, they will get their money back, Seller Protection or not.
        • puter, on 05/21/2008, -2/+2ch33sehead:: Congrats the buyer, they have now screwed over exactly one seller.

          Sorry, but the constant chargebacks etc. will only be allowed once or twice before their account and all the money in it is locked, your argument is bunk.
    • BradMajors, on 05/21/2008, -6/+1Why do you care if you get negative feedback? Negative feedback hurts sellers, but has no affect on buyers. Buyers are allowed to make their feedback rating hidden.
    • L.Jenkins, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4The feedback system already doesn't work. If you see an item you want, you better just cross your fingers when you click "bid" or "buy it now."

      I recently bought knockoff creative ep-630 headphones from a seller with 99.8% positive feedback. When I went digging deeper in his feedback, there were a few others who had left negative feedback for the same reason. He received positive feedback on hundreds of other sales on the same item.
      He offered to refund my money real quick in return for positive feedback. Well I sure as ***** didn't trust him to refund it, and I wanted people to know he was selling *****, so I left negative feedback and ate the $$.
      I don't think this is the best solution, but the system is badly broken.
    • Cheezeburgar, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Can someone tell me if I was wrong or was the seller wrong?

      A couple of weeks ago I purchased a bluetooth headset for my PS3. After a week the headset arrived and it was in horrible condition. In the description is said that the item would be in good condition but it wasn't anywhere close to that. It was all scratched up and it had EAR WAX on the back. I left the user a neutral feedback saying the item was not in good condition. The user then left me a neutral feedback saying that I should have contacted him before leaving the feedback.

      The whole point of the feedback is to inform others about the seller's reputation. Even if the seller had sent me a replacement, it still would have dismissed the fact that the original headset was in horrible condition.
      • puter, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2You should have contacted him before feedback. He was completely in the right.

        How fair is it if you disagree with him for you to just leave feedback, neutral or negative that says basically "he doesn't ship items as described"

        What if you had emailed him, and he had immediately refunded your money, apologized, and sent you a prepaid shipping box to ship the product back? Would you still have left negative feedback? I would have left positive feedback saying the item wasn't as described but he's an excellent seller and I would buy from again.

        You never even gave him a chance to correct the issue.
        • 11oops, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2The seller should never have listed the item as being in good condition or shipped out disgusting inventory. If you wanted your money back, then you should have contacted him first to attempt to resolve it. If you didn't care about the money, then you were entirely justified in immediately leaving negative feedback. the seller had the opportunity to correct the issue before it ever left his possession by either listing correctly, cleaning the item, or refunding then.
        • puter, on 05/21/2008, -1/+0I disagree with 11oops.

          This is all about perception. How do we know that the poster isn't being completely unreasonable in his expectations? How do we know one of us wouldn't look at it and go "that looks fine" whereas his view of it is that it is terrible.

          Condition is subjective, and people will disagree. The poster should have taken the time to try and resolve the issue with the seller before he posted feedback. I think the seller was justified in posting the same feedback in return because he was not necessarily in the wrong in this case. His reaction would have determined if he was a good seller or bad...and he was never given a chance to prove himself either way.
        • 11oops, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1I would have to say that scratched and covered with someone else's ear wax is not, and would never be, considered as 'good condition.' I don't believe that anyone should ever feel it acceptable to sell an item with another person's bodily materials still on it.
    • flipzmode, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3So yea the best option that eBay could go with would be a double blind comment system. What that means is neither of you can see what the other said until after you have both posted comments. Or until after the 30 day mark has passed where whomever left a comment gets theirs posted, and it's too late for the other person to leave one. That would solve most of their problems.
    • marksweb, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2aye, its great for people buying now, but i recently bought some fake sony erikkson headphones which arrived 2 weeks late.
      Requested a refund and left negetive feedback - suddenly i get this - "Poor communication. Dispatched immediately.Don;t read email. Seller bewares!"
  • lolinyerface, on 05/20/2008, -21/+135eBay killed the internet merchant! Oh wait, they all just moved to craigslist.
    • fluidfoundation, on 05/20/2008, -3/+36yeah, craigslist is _much_ safer.....
      • lolinyerface, on 05/20/2008, -4/+10Hey now, nobody said it was safer.
        • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -1/+8just , cheaper , less formal , less hassle, etc
        • FatLoser, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6craigslist is good for selling stuff if you don't mind random surprise sex from t-girls when all you wanted to do was sell your ***** sofa-sleeper and you even offered to deliver it for ***** free, and all you got out of it was rectal itch and a sick feeling every time you look in the mirror...
        • TheGuruStud, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3What?

          ... and I don't see the problem
      • Shuk, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Maybe it's because I live in Canada, but I'm not worried about my safety at all when selling or buying. Everyone who I've done business with is honest and actually pretty nice. Once I bought a guitar amp for $600, gave the guy the wad of cash, told him he could count it, he said "nah, I'll trust you".

        Plus, there's always the idea that if you give a guy a bad deal, they know where you live. It's harder to rip people off face-to-face.
    • Berrex, on 05/20/2008, -19/+2I usd craiglist once. borted microwave but he try 2 scam me so i put poop corn in the micro and set it on hi til it catches fire then leave i bet it stunk up teh place

      c u in hell ben, *****-a-doodle-do!!! JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!
    • sockpuppets, on 05/20/2008, -0/+12...which eBay owns 25% of.
      • shwerm601, on 05/21/2008, -5/+2wasn't aware that craigslist was even available for sale? either way whether ebay owns Craigslist or doesnt, they cant have much influence in user-user interactions considering they are always on your own terms. and as far as CL being or not being safe... i deal with people all the time and have yet to have an issue.

        I can say tho there are scammers/scum/waste of time people on there but if you can weed through the junk/trashy people there is good ideals/people on craigslist.
      • Reclinatron, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2eBay bought the 25% from an individual. The other 75% didn't not want eBay to purchase part of the company.
        • puter, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0"didn't not"

          So they DID want to purchase....
    • kipmartin, on 05/20/2008, -5/+4they ALL just went to craigslist? i dont think so.

      currently, there are over 600 Fender basses on eBay. here in Nashville (Music City, USA), there are 6 on craigslist. 1 percent is hardly 'all'.

      shoes. there are over 11,000 pairs for sale of a certain style on ebay. on craigslist Nashville? 2 pair. you do the math this time.

      dont tell me to check other cities--that takes far too much time.

      all...sheesh.

      • shwerm601, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4who the ***** sells shoes on craigslist? lol craigslist is for used ***** normally and no one buys used shoes (except maybe you?)

        and you would ahve to add up all guitars in every US location to have a justified argument there partner.
        • petrodollar, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Why do you assume the shoes are used? Ebayers sell new shoes all the time. If you know exactly what you want you can sometimes get good deals. It's especially nice for people who are size 12+ like me because there aren't may other bidders.
        • qwertydvorak, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1i agree with petrodollar. ebay is a great place to search for new shoes. i was wanting a pair that hasn't been made in 3 years. found a new pair on ebay.
      • dudefaceguyman, on 05/21/2008, -0/+16 ....IN YOUR CITY

        Think of how many other cities there are with "Fender basses"

        If there's 6 in your city then combined there are much much much more with all of them combined.
        • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Not really. Typically there is 2 to 8 "sections" per state. lets assume 8 to be fair to you.

          50 states 8 sections 6 items each. IE total 2400. Yeah Tiny. :-)

          Fyi I love craigslist but its a completely different kind of environment and different "offers" most of the time "odd" stuff is never available. local. In fact I can only remember 1 or 2 of the thousands of items I bought from ebay even being from my own State PA (big state) though a lot has come from NY and just a few from NJ or OH.

          99% of craigslist is pickup only so its just not doable and there is no way to search ALL of craigslist.
      • anubis2night, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1It could also be that the seller doesn't want people to know that they have a large inventory of bass guitars and so have only put one ad onto craigslist in this way the number seems small and therefore worth the price whereas if 600 bass guitars were for sale the price would be too low. Just a thought.
    • thx0138, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6I found Craigslist a lot more useful when I lived in a bigger city, but I still buy and sell quite a bit even in a 100k town. I've stopped using Ebay ever since they announced the changes.
      My biggest complaint was when the raised the final value fee by 3.5 percent, from 5.25 to 8.75, and masked this by over advertising the lower insertion fees. Having a company I've done business with for years try to trick me was the last straw.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Holy ***** !!! 8.75% (as you can tell I do not SELL much) but that pretty much erases any chance of me DOING anymore ebay sells. No way in hell am I giving them over 10% nearly 15% of my sale (by the time you add in other fees and paypal fees) No way in hell.
    • AzureRise, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Ooooooooo. Cold man, cold.
  • xplode90, on 05/20/2008, -34/+17people still use ebay?
    • drkmccrthy, on 05/20/2008, -2/+18Please to be sending me the dollars that I am requesting. As for your question, the answer is being quite apparent if you are sending me the money through paypal which I am sending electronic mail of requests. Please to be replying with financial institution information with security social number and relevant data. I will soon be answering your question.
      God be with you

      ebay :(
    • ArielMT, on 05/20/2008, -1/+6I quit selling on eBay two years ago because of stupid anti-seller stuff like this. What gets me is how they can think screwing their sellers can do any good since sellers are their bottom line.
    • jerrycurley, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5People still drink Coca Cola?

      People still use iPods?
  • voxtarri, on 05/20/2008, -20/+10Everybody knows Craigslist is more fun anyways.
    • lolinyerface, on 05/20/2008, -1/+14and way easier to pick up cheap dates
      • sockpuppets, on 05/20/2008, -2/+5...and that's how your mother and I met.
    • TVarmy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1But I want textbooks, not sex! Maybe I need to see a doctor....
  • drafhk, on 05/20/2008, -9/+185Honestly, I don't see much downside to this. Payment happens before items are shipped, so there's never really any harm done to merchants. Buyers, though, many times can't afford to leave bad feedback when they have a justifiable problem, for risk of it being reciprocated.
    • unusualbob, on 05/20/2008, -14/+7Unless bidders are just bidding and not paying, which is what a lot of scammers from nigeria are doing. They tell you that you cant see the paypal receipt until they confirm receiving the item.
      • Lukesed, on 05/20/2008, -4/+8Anyone who would agree to that deserves to get ripped off. Don't get the money, don't send the item. The only thing a seller can possibly lose is the tiny fee it takes to set up a new auction.
        • twiztidsinz, on 05/21/2008, -3/+13Comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?

          Lemme break it down to simpler terms for you:
          High bidder is Nigerian Scam account, never pays, demands item.
          Seller, being SMART like you said, never sends item without getting money first.
          Nigerian Scammer leaves negative feedback because 'he never got item'.
          Seller has ZERO protection from getting negative feedback from Nigerian Scammer.

          Nigerian Scammers > eBay
        • Lukesed, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1As it stood before this change, a buyer could send the money, get ripped off, AND get negative feedback on top of that after rating the seller. Sellers could only lose feedback.

          Now, the buyer can get ripped off financially and the seller can have a point of negative feedback. Levels the playing field a bit. Honestly, can you really say the sellers have it bad here?
    • Pyehole, on 05/20/2008, -3/+22You've obviously never sold anything on ebay before. Most people are great, but eventually you'll run across the customer from hell.
    • Onyxblaze, on 05/20/2008, -7/+2Most of the nigerian scams come from japan. Sorry dude.
    • hungarianhc, on 05/20/2008, -1/+23This is true, MOST of the time - however, just ask people who have gotten F'd by credit card chargebacks. I.E. You get paid. You ship the item. All's well. You transfer the money out of paypal to your bank. One day you show up and your paypal has a balance of like NEGATIVE $500.
      • Thundercat1971, on 05/21/2008, -0/+7Yeah, I always like how paypal takes your money first, then we see if we can settle the dispute. Even with delivery confirmation good luck getting your money back.
        • Pyehole, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3That's not necessarily true. I don't know what your experience with their arbitration is like but my experience was that just having that confirmation number won the dispute for me. It does suck to have that money tied up, but just because somebody said that it never arrived doesn't mean you won't win the contest.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1Then you CLEAR out your bank account (it should already be clear) you notify paypal you do realize this balance is NOT my problem right?

        If you need any help Tracking numbers Signed Delivery receipts, E-Mails from the buyer let me know and I will give you what I can oh and make sure you remove that negative balance by end of business today.

        IF you manage to get is resolved you insist on a mailed or faxed LETTER signed from paypal stating its resolved (that way they can not "wait" till you do have money in there and "take it" without repurcussions.

        Oh wait you did not secure the funds? you did not insure it and register it?

        EAT IT. thats life thats doing business. YOU took a shortcut and this time it burned you. Live and Learn.
    • kevthecatslayer, on 05/21/2008, -1/+8Maybe the item gets broken during shipping and buys immediately leaves bad feedback before giving the seller a chance to offer return/refund if it was insured.

      of course, there are always the assholes that don't understand how ebay works and leave bad feedback accusing of shill bidding because of a random user retracting a bid due to typo, yeah, im looking at you good seller 513
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2***** happens. You word a clear useful reply to the negative and you go bout your business.

        As for broken. NO problem. you just REFUND the money. all of it including shipping. Its not the buyers problem its YOURS you did insure it right? (insurance is NOT THE BUYERS RESPONSIBILITY ITS THE SELLERS)
        • kevthecatslayer, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1you missed the point.

          Yes that is how it SHOULD go but sometimes a buyer will leave feedback before talking to seller/giving them a chance to right the error.
    • xcheats, on 05/21/2008, -2/+8I completely agree. I've been on both sides on eBay. I've sent sellers negative feedback only to get it back the next day unwarranted and eBay wouldn't do ***** about it. I'm sure as a seller you'll be able to reply to bad feedback on yourself or give reason.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2and YOU can reply too but your right this burns the buyer far worse than it burns the seller. SO while this solution DOES have problem it does fix the seller abuse of feedback.

        IE we should start seeing some REAL feedback (and if its bogus sellers START getting used to replying to them YES I read EVERY SINGLE ONE if I am suspicious of a seller. If i see GOOD sensible replies GOOD resolution of the problem and NO "trends" starting I Consider that negative to be double positive in my book.
    • saigumi, on 05/21/2008, -0/+15I thought the same thing until I sent two brand new books that hadn't even been flipped through straight from my store, wrapped in sleeves and bubble wrap packaged perfectly to survive a nuclear blast and the buyer goes on a 3 page tirade about how the books are "definitely not new", "covered in crap", "pages torn out", "deep gouges in the covers", how he could have gotten it cheaper locally (as if I had some control over how much he bid), that my shipping was gougingly high ($4.95 for almost 2 pounds of books sent via USPS priority), etc...

      I responded that he could send them back for a full refund per my terms. He never did. Looking at his feedback, I'm thinking it is his MO to try to scam sellers into giving him at least a partial refund.

      Yeah, there is such a thing as nightmarish customers.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1***** happens thats life. Get used to it move on. Make sure you REPLY to the feedback.
    • GeorgeStone2, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5Just the other day I bought a vintage shirt and the description said "Excellent! no stains or burns!" (Exact quote)
      I leave neutral feedback saying it has about 4 stains that I can count. But not to worry since i can wash it.
      And I get neutral feedback even though I paid the guy seconds after i won the item.
      It's *****, and i think what ebay have done is great.
  • DarthDaddy, on 05/20/2008, -28/+17Digg my comment, then I will Digg yours.
    • strictnein, on 05/20/2008, -1/+13Are people missing the point of this? That's pretty what much any big seller says to you after you buy something on ebay. Somehow it's become the responsibility of the buyer to leave feedback first. It used to be that you typically got positive feedback shortly after you paid for the item.
      • DarthDaddy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+13thanks...apparently only one person got my comment
  • fluidfoundation, on 05/20/2008, -21/+2I betcha Digg thought about the same thing 2 comment systems ago...
  • TexasCanuck, on 05/20/2008, -24/+5You mean people still use EBay ? How 2006...
    • Muncher, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1That's like saying, "Horse-drawn carriages? How 1970."
  • gizzymo, on 05/20/2008, -12/+27This is good over all, good sellers will rise to the top, as finally feedback from buyers will begin to mean something..... At the end of the day, we all know ebay is like the real world, no seller can get an A++++ all the time. I'll sooner trust a seller with 98.3% positives, than 100%, as with 100%, up until now, that just means bad feedback is been removed......
    • Tenlow, on 05/21/2008, -4/+8Actually now negative feedback only goes back a year, so that 100% has an asterisk next to it. Leveling the playing field by removing one team's ability to play fair isn't what I call a good business decision. Ebay is forgetting that buyers are not their bread and butter. Sellers pay the fees, so sellers are the ones who should be pandered to, if anyone at all.
      • crossmr, on 05/21/2008, -1/+9it was removed because that team didn't play fair. It was abused by people who had nothing to lose (1 negative out of 11,000 is nothing compared to 1 negative out of 20)
      • daborg, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2Sellers the bread and butter? Crappy sellers leads to buyers leaving. No buyers leads to no money. The seller is the one trying to make a buck.
        • Tenlow, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4Tell me now, what's the fee for bidding again? Yeah, that's what I thought. Ebay makes money on seller's fees, not buyer's fees.
        • Azerkainen, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1pay all the fees you want...I shouldn't have to tell you that more buyers means more competition for an item...which likely means more money.

          I only recently used ebay to purchase something after boycotting it for almost 4 years b/c of bad experiences with revenge feedback from a seller. I gave a neutral feedback, he gives me a negative.

          After that, I said screw ebay and all of it's bull**** ****ing sellers! Maybe I'll actually start using it again on a regular basis now that I can leave honest feedback without fear of repercussion.
        • Tenlow, on 05/23/2008, -0/+1I just stopped leaving feedback as a seller. If I can't leave honest feedback, I won't leave any at all.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -5/+3Sellers do not pay ANY fees. If you had nothing to SELL me you would have no fees to PAY so THE BUYERS PAY THE FEE by virtue of BUYING your product.

        Do you know anything about how buying and selling works man? seriously!
        • jamdogg, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Sellers pay fees whether the item sells or not. There are all the listing fees and then the FVF. Seriously.
    • modsuperstar, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2The move definitely has its pros and cons. I know myself as a regular buyer I've been tempted to leave neutral or negative feedback but held back to avoid reciprocation and protect my perfect feedback record.

      I'm not sure if it's still true, but they did have a 3 strikes you're out warning system on eBay years ago, which is above and beyond the feedback system.
  • SpectralSounds, on 05/20/2008, -9/+44Good, Im glad.

    I got negative feedback from a seller not too long ago. I was very unhappy with the way they conducted business. I sent the seller at least 4 emails trying to get the situation resolved. I didn't get any answers from them, so I gave them negative feedback. So, they gave me negative feedback in return....

    Then after I gave them negative feedback they got a third party "Dispute Resolution Company" involved to, "Resolve the negative feedback issue".

    Long story short, the problem was not solved, I still have the negative feedback and so does he. Haven't been back to eBay since.
    • coolcash2005, on 05/20/2008, -15/+6oh come on, everyone gets one or two completely undeserved negative feedbacks. Thats just the way internet works - you're bound to come across some real pricks.

      People won't judge you for having a couple of negative feedbacks, even if you have only 100 positives. Its the asses that screw every 1 in 10 sellers that are gonna be benefitting from this. No one else.
      • shwerm601, on 05/21/2008, -2/+8"thats just the way the internet works" its people like you that cause those unjustified negative feedbacks and quite honestly, i take pride in my 100% + feedback
      • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4the one negative out of 500+ was a scam by a 13 yr old with his mom's CC and ebay canceled the account but I'm stuck with that one undeserved red mark.
    • paradexes, on 05/21/2008, -0/+7I feel your pain. And I did the same. I left ebay and have not looked back since. newegg for my electronics needs and amazon for just about everything else.
    • Fowz, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Sorry to hear that spectral sounds. I think this is main point behind the anouncement. They're trying to get users like you back on the site.
  • Cyberbladewolf, on 05/20/2008, -19/+131As a seller I'm incredibly disappointed. I had a 100% positive feedback rating up until one jackass gave me negative feedback, for HIS problem. I sold him a NES and a few games, and the NES was finicky (Like they all are anymore) so he thought it was defective. Instead of contacting me first about a refund or replacement (Which I would have gladly supplied at my cost) he just flat out gave me a negative feedback rating. Should I not be allowed to give him a negative feedback for his ignorance and lack of cooperation?
    • BigManOnCampus, on 05/20/2008, -7/+33A 99% rating isn't going to make me avoid buying from you.
      The big problem that this change includes is that since buyers are now exempt from negative feedback, then nigerian scammers cannot be outed. So, wtf, ebay, you just gave every scammer in the world the ability to scam away and have perfect records on your service.
    • blackjack75, on 05/20/2008, -13/+37How can a buyer scam when he has to pay in advance ?
      • BigManOnCampus, on 05/20/2008, -2/+9Don't ask me. They've never scammed me, but they try and succeed with others. Accounts like that should be outed.
      • Onyxblaze, on 05/20/2008, -3/+5They bid without money I think.
        • xcheats, on 05/21/2008, -2/+6You can still report buyers for not paying.
      • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -0/+13He claims to have never received the package 2 weeks after you sent it then I have to refund him. Even though shipping to another country take more than 2 weeks. or they flat out lie as in the one case , had UPS delivery signature and all but not good enough for paypal they gave him his money back.
        • cwabray, on 05/21/2008, -2/+9exactly.

          a buyer purchased a book from me, I sent it to him -- he claims he never got it. luckily, I have another in stock, so I send him BOTH a replacement and via EXPEDITED shipping. Guess what happens?

          He didn't get that one either ;) and PayPal issues him a refund because it is impossible to dispute a PayPal complaint on the seller's end -- the buyer ALWAYS gets his refund no matter what

          eBay has been going downhill ever since it started attacking sellers, first with the detailed five-star ratings (of course you're going to get low stars when they buy a book and pay for MEDIA MAIL and it doesn't come the NEXT day) and now with this
        • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+4Where is your Reciept? where is your Registered Mail Slip? Your Tracking Information? your Insurance Slip?

          Oh wait you did not get these? Who's faults that?

          If paypal wants to refund him thats fine let them. Just make sure your money is secured so they do not refund it with YOUR money.

          and what the hell is up with this force is strong with you crap you get a captcha to confirm and it STILL makes you wait. WTF digg fix that please. and PUT a damned timer on how long I have to wait to make the fraking post.
        • natastna2, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4There is literally no way to win a PayPal chargeback dispute. I sold a phone on eBay for £200, got the money and sent it off. Turns out someone was using a hacked eBay account and a separate person's PayPal account. Even though it was not my fault, I still had to pay back the £200 I got as the person whose paypal account it was did a chargeback and I'd sent the phone off. PayPal sucks a lot of dick when it comes to chargebacks.
        • celticchrys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1You can choose not to ship to other countries if doing so is too much of a headache for you. It is your fault if you do not set up the terms in a way that covers you as a seller.
      • lbdinh, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5With stolen accounts and then the original account owner will notice it on his paypal balance and charge back to you and most likely win because he can say that his account was stolen. This happened to my brother who sold a laptop on ebay. Never ever try to sell a laptop on ebay. Nigerian scammers will be all over it. Buying is OK though.
        • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -4/+3This is an easy solution to resolve. IN a credit card dispute if the SELLER used due diligence and followed all the rules regarding the transaction they can NOT be held responsible for a fraudulent transaction. THE CC company EATS the transaction.

          IE its work you have to fight it and because paypal is shoddy in this regard you have to do even more.

          For example I sold laptop on ebay for $400 here is how it went.

          Auction terms. I do not ship until I have "cash" in my hands No checks no money orders.


          My paypal bank account has $3 in it.

          User pays me. I use my debit card or I goto bank I WITHDRAWAL the money.

          I now have cold hard cash in my hands. NOW and ONLY now I ship the product. As is my due diligence as a seller I ship insured and registered.

          My sale went fine if it had not ... Frauded customer disputes the charge.

          I submit all my paperwork showing my due diligence and instruct paypal to tell the CC company to deal with this but the laptop was already shipped so no refund is possible.

          NOW paypal could try to play legal loose and "debit" my account for the $400. I have no idea "how" this would work.

          the account only has $3 would the bank permit it or refuse it? I have no idea. Hopefully they refuse it paypal gets flustered I reiterate HEY I followed the rules. DEAL with this as your supposed to IE dispute the charge back here is all the paperwork etc..

          The problem is PAYPAL can not meet there burden (I have no idea what the due diligence is for an online transaction) ie paypal has no way to provide a signature or a hard copy of an imprint. but thats paypal's problem not mine.

          Worst case the bank permits it and I end up with a negative $400 balance.

          Well paypal will stop working with me as they got there money back. The bank however has not. I can not work with them making it clear I WILL NOT be paying this money. I tool a lawful payment and shipped a lawful product. If you can get my product back I will give your money back. Otherwise we are done.

          NOW do you wish me to assist you in dealing with paypal to reverse this? You might even be able to DISPUTE the debit with paypal (this is why paypal wants you to have a bank account the rules are more on paypals side while with a CC the rules are very much on YOUR side IE do not give them a bank account if you can help it :-)

          The bank may just tell you tough pay up at which point you walk out and say "make me" the worst they can do is put you in telechex or whatever its called and mark your credit at which point you DISPUTE the mark and provide all your documentation and note this is a CC PAYPAL issue they incorrectly tried to get OUT of there predicament by attempting to take my money and make it MY problem. 99% of the time you WILL win. I mean you DID keep your records right?

          YES this is work alas this is LIFE. this is what EVERY merchant on earth who does not want to eat chargebacks DOES when dealing with credit cards. We have a family business. THIS is how we do it. We check signatures. We insist on ID if its not signed. We make physical imprints of EVERY single card that is used AND we politely refuse any card that can not be "swiped" ie no manual entries. in 20+ years we have NEVER lost a chargeback dispute.

          Its work. MOST of the problems sellers have is a result of THEM taking short cuts of "cheaper" solutions compromising security. Thats a seller problem. Get over it.

          DO your due diligence.
        • natastna2, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Unfortunately, your argument is retarded as even though your PayPal account has only 3 dollars in it. When you signed up for PayPal you agreed to waive all rights to consumer credit card protection and they will take their money back. Your account would show up as - the money and PayPal would send you an email three months after the transaction saying a chargeback has been initiated. Then, unless you pay them, they start sending debt collectors after you.
      • MasterPain, on 05/21/2008, -1/+4My friend put a laptop on ebay & someone used the buy it now option & he got a very real looking email from paypal saying a payment had been made to him. He wisely logged into paypal & saw that there was no payment made. I have also had genuine looking emails from ebay saying I needed to pay for an item. I am actually more people are not fooled by these sorts of actions.
      • cwabray, on 05/21/2008, -1/+6they can scam you by -- not paying. paying, then requesting a refund through PayPal (which is essentially impossible to dispute, the buyer always gets a refund). or he can leave you negative feedback (no joke, this happened to me) stating: "sry cant pay" -- leaving you with no recourse to return the favor
      • jamdogg, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5In my early ebay days, I sold a sony vaio. The guy was from Ukraine and said his "business partner" from the US would pay with his account.
        Could I send the laptop to Ukraine?
        I said sure I'll send it to the north pole if you want as long as you pay me first. He was hassling to send the item fast too. The paypal payment came in, I sent the item. I withdrew the payment to my bank account.
        Two days later the payment was reversed. Apparently it was a hacked paypal account. I left that account negatve $750. I told paypal I would not pay for their security flaw.
        I've since opened a new paypal account with new details and am a little wiser.
    • dirrtydirrty, on 05/20/2008, -5/+26The role of a buyer is to pay the full amount in a timely manner. The role of a seller is to accurately describe the item and ship it in a safe and timely manner. These should be the only basis for leaving feedback. In a perfect world, once the seller pays, the buyer should leave positive feedback immediately if everything is paid in a timely manner. The buyer would then leave positive feedback once the item is received and appears to be accurately described. What eBay is trying to do is eliminate retaliation feedback.

      Your comment of "Should I not be allowed to give him a negative feedback for his ignorance and lack of cooperation?" would count as a retaliation feedback since it has nothing to do with the buyer's ability to pay on time. While, I agree that it was the buyer's fault for not seeking a resolution before quickly leaving the negative feedback, I would see you as the bad guy if you were to leave a retaliation negative feedback.

      I hate it when I receive an item that was either shipped extremely late or was not accurately described and find a letter in the box that states that the seller will not leave feedback until I do it first. This would then force me to not leave any feedback at all in fear of getting a retaliation feedback. There are a few eBay transactions where I have yet to leave a feedback for that very reason.

      I've had to leave a few negative feedbacks for non-paying bidders so I do understand how this would be unfair for sellers but I can really only see this from the buyer's side since 95% of my transactions are from the buying end.
      • twiztidsinz, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5So why should the Seller get the shaft from someone who refuses to pay?
        The Seller is hit with fees for listing the item and then again when the item sells.
        NPB's (Non Paying Bidder) can really hurt a Seller -- especially someone like you and me who are personal accounts. Getting whacked for $10 because some dick decided to bid then changed his mind isn't cool for the little guy who has to relist the item and pay the fee's again. It also makes eBay an even bigger Scammers Paradise by stripping protection away from the seller.
        • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1Thats a Seller EBAY problem not a seller BUYER problem. Goto ebay.
        • L33tmaster, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5I haven't sold anything in about a year, so I don't know if the policy's changed, but I've had deadbeat buyers twice, and after I reported them for not paying, I was refunded my listing fees.
        • twiztidsinz, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3@L33tmaster: Really?
          I've sold on eBay with a relative (infrequent) frequency over the years since late 2000 or early 2001 and I've run into a NPB's 3 or 4 times.... Never once saw a single cent refunded from eBay.
        • twiztidsinz, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2That was meant to read "with a relative (infrequent) regularity"
      • petard, on 05/21/2008, -3/+3It IS the buyers responsibility to cooperate. If the seller made an honest mistake and is willing to fix the mistake, why do they deserve a negative? The best solution would be to wait until both feedback are left or until the 90 days to leave feedback is up before the feedback is shown to either the buyer or seller.
    • kh99, on 05/20/2008, -3/+10I agree with the others here. The problem is that every seller wants to have 100% positive feedback, and they think they are entitled as long as they are given the chance to fix any problem. But if the item wasn't described accurately or it was shipped late, those are things that can't really be fixed and that other buyers should know about.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3Well I do not agree with this (I am a buyer) if the seller can properly fix the problem to my satisfaction without too much hassle or problems that deserves as much a positive feedback as the perfect item. IN FACT thats even MORE informative of the seller than the sales that go right.

        When I see feedback such as Sent me broken item Sent another broken item. Covered return shipping sent third item all good now

        THAT tells me a LOT more than,

        Got it thanks all is good.

        That tells me that is a seller who WORKS for his customers. I WANT to deal with those because I know if I DO have a problem they WILL work to resolve it with me.
        • kh99, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1But my point is that if someone says they'll ship in 1 week but it takes 3 (which is something that has happened to me), IMO that can't be fixed without a time machine. And if someone doesn't describe their item correctly, even if they offer a refund it has cost you time and probably return postage. I know these things happen to every seller on occasion, but it should be reflected in the feedback so buyers can tell when it happens a lot to a seller. If everyone gets their item late and just says "oh well, it's probably a one time thing" then other buyers won't know.
    • funkytaco, on 05/20/2008, -2/+5Keep your best game up and don't worry about it.
    • jdaniel284, on 05/21/2008, -5/+6If I won your auction for a NES and you sent me one that was "finicky", I would probably leave you negative feedback too.

      Life is too short to deal with issues like this. Unless you fully disclosed that something was wrong with the product he purchased from you, under no circumstances is he obligated to contact you once he received a defective product.
      • mockupscaledown, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5I put a disclaimer in my auctions that difficult to deal with people who take life too seriously should not bid, especially if they're buying superfluous items like a 20 year old video game console.
      • Cyberbladewolf, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5Nobody expects a 100% fully working NES anymore. They're ALL finicky. If you can get a cart to work after 1 or 2 tries of blowing into it, it's working better then 90% of the NES's out there, discounting the hard to find top loader. Even the oft used bend the pin trick isn't a 100% fix, due to the corrosion of many years of blowing on carts. What can you expect though from a 20 year old game console?
      • tony23, on 05/21/2008, -1/+5Are you in the habit of accepting defective products and not trying to get them replaced?

        Doesn't sound like a sensible approach to me.
        • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+3Are you in the habit of buying 20 year old well used rare products and expecting them to be shrinkwrapped new?
    • barddzen, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2I have experienced the same issue where I shipped items and PO lost the item (so the buyer said) and without even contacting me, the buyer reported negative feedback. Then, I went to the buyers page and found out that they had multiple merchants report the same issue. This, to me, isn't just to protect buyers from shifty merchants, but merchants from buyers who repeatedly say the never received an item, just to get a refund.

      To be fair, I had this happen on Amazon also where buyers will buy DVD's, books, etc. either copy or read them and then report that they want a refund and with no way for me to report bad feedback about the buyer (as a merchant) there really isn't anything to do to stop this ripoff.

      What sucks even worse on eBay and Amazon, is that when a person buys an item and requests a refund you HAVE to give it to them, without question, regardless if the item was represented, purchased, won, and received.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3This is your fault. NOT the buyers. They are simply taking advantage of YOUR mistake (assuming they are scamming you and its not legit)

        YOU assumed the risk of not requiring confirmation. YOU assumed the risk of not insuring the shipment. This is not a BUYER cost. I do not bit on auctions that state We are not responsible for things lost in the mail. Sorry bub your responsible for getting that item INTO MY HANDS. Not into the postmans hands. Until it in MY hands intact YOU have scammed ME.

        I NEVER ship anything without confirmation and insurance unless I am willing to EAT the cost of that auction. I simple add the cost of that to my shipping charges.

        My auctions states auction includes confirmation and insurance shipping price reflects this.

        DONE. anything short of that and its YOUR fault not the buyers. YOU took a short cut and legitimate or scam that short cut burned you.

        MUST give them a refund? not a chance in hell. Ever hear of AS IS SALE. Thats legally binding ebay can NOT defy this unless fraud is shown.
    • FearTec, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4I have bougth 2 SNES's on eBay and both were flakey but after I cleaned the cartridge contacts and the contacts inside the SNES and changed the game batteries with new ones all was good.

      Sellers should say they will be finickey unless you do........
    • diablo75, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2"AS IS"!!! There's a purpose for those two words. If you are selling a product that is known to be defective (see "finicky") then you should state that outright so as to dissuade such "idiots" from buying it from you.
    • SeraphIXI, on 05/21/2008, -3/+1(Like they all are anymore)
      (like they all are nowadays*) sounds better

      anymore = any longer; unless you live somewhere weird
      ie (like they all are any longer) sounds weird
    • Highwayman, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1I'm guessing the problem is that you did not clearly state the condition of the item. The buyer had certain expectations based on your advertisement, namely that he expected the unit would work properly. If you had been clearer, then there would be no confusion, and he would have been expecting a unit that is finicky. Hence, no negative feedback because he got what he was expecting!
    • coldeve, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3I understand.

      I sold some Oakley sunglasses on eBay and I am 100% sure they are in perfect condition because I know how valuable they are. This buyer send me a response and said they are scratched when I am sure they are not. I requested him to take a photo of the scratched lens and send it to me as proof, then I'll give him 50% back. He accepted the condition but did not send me a photo and demanded me to send him the money back. He left me a negative feedback. I, later, checked out his feedback history and discovered this has also happened to other buyers.
    • Envenom, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1qq
  • BrapAllgood, on 05/20/2008, -9/+16Today I will end my boycott of ebay...only to begin again. Ebay is like a friggin' parking lot swap-meet nowadays...and with all the associated smells somehow included. No, thank you.
    • solarweasel, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1another reason to boycott ebay... they bought a bunch of other websites they have no business owning -- such as skype, rent.com, prostores, and most of all the EVIL stumbleupon!!
  • wrboyce, on 05/20/2008, -5/+51This is definitely a step in the right direction. I have had had to deal with sellers trying to fob me off with fake products and upon leaving them bad feedback only had my own reputation tarred with the same brush - it would be a nice system if we could rely on honesty.

    Evidently, we can't. Shame..
    • Zera, on 05/21/2008, -2/+1The feedback system keeps track of honesty.

      My only problem with this as both a buyer and seller is that 99% of my problems with ebay has been newbie members who didn't take the time to either read the item description, OR basic rules on how ebay works. I wish I could just opt out from selling to people with less than 20 feedback.

      I'm not sure what to think of these changes. I'm sure ebay has thought it through, but I liked it how it was. Being able to leave a negative as a seller means that I could tell all my buyers that I will leave a positive when they receive the item and are happy with it. Holding the potential negative over their head at least gets an email if and when someone isn't happy with what I sold them.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -2/+3But ebay can never do that for you would eventually have no customers. IE all sellers would do this (or enough to effect things) and pretty soon buyers would get the message and stop signing up to ebay knowing they will not be able to buy anything.

        See the problem?
        • Zera, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1What? I honestly didn't understand anything you said there.

          All I was saying is that by having the ability for a seller to leave a negative means that the seller has one recourse if a buyer is unhappy. Lots of buyers just give rampant negative feedback for anything from mis-communication, to not getting the item, to it being broken in the mail, etc, etc. Good Sellers are ALWAYS willing to make it right, whether that's getting money from the shipping company who broke the item, or sending a second one, etc, etc, etc. Without the ability to leave a negative on the buyer, what other recourse is there for sellers to protect themselves from buyers who refuse to communicate their problem.

          Now, the stupidest of all buyers go unchecked, with no negative feedback to track them.

          Please try to explain what you meant with your post. Most sellers already DO do what I explain, it's the only recourse to ensure the buyer is happy. And I know it's not perfect, but it seems better than this new plan.
        • grovest4life, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1@Zera He is talking about what would happen if sellers only sold to buyers with more than 20 feedback's.
        • Zera, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Oh, yes, I understand it's not feasible. I'm just saying that literally every problem I've had either buying or selling on ebay has been dealing with someone with less than 5 feedback. Mostly because they don't understand how ebay works.
      • anubis2night, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2I've never sold anything on Ebay and usually buy around 1 - 2 items a month off of it and have been using it for 4 years or so. I only have a feedback score of 19 right now. Unfortunately for me I never pay much attention if Sellers leave me feedback (I care more if they have good feedback) So unless they ding me, (and it only happened when a seller wanted me to go thru a non ebay transaction to pay) I never paid it much attention. Now I don't have to but I can see as a buyer where Seller's haven't helped their situation by not leaving feedback in a transaction. Of course I still support the Sellers right to have some sort of feedback. Maybe if it was set to positive if payment set. Then if buyer reneg's on payment you as the seller have the option to change to negative: Buyer took back payment or payment in dispute or buyer from nigeria. That way buyers are happy and Sellers still have a voice.
  • jmpeagle, on 05/20/2008, -12/+3hell I didn't know sellers could leave feedback. Of course I haven't used ebay since buying college textbooks for undergrad and I doubt I got any negative feedback because I never bothered to leave any feedback ever.
  • Overmind12812, on 05/20/2008, -5/+71I agree with this. It's so ***** that vendors basically demand positive feedback first. In this industry the consumer should be king.
    • jerrycurley, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5Well, they could do someting different, like having the feedback not be posted until both members have left it for each other. (With say a time limit. So if the buyers leaves a feedback for the seller and the seller does not do the same, after a month or whatever, the feedback gets posted at which time the seller can no longer leave feedback for that auction.)

      That way, both parties still have the negative feedback option for legitimate complaints, but you can't really hold your positive feedback hostage to demand some for yourself.
      • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1NO they do not because the seller need simply NOT LEAVE FEEDBACK. Forcing the buyer to ALSO not leave feedback for fear of retaliation.
  • FadieZ, on 05/20/2008, -21/+38Flat out *****. Wtf is this going to solve, anyway? I've had a ridiculously childish buyer give me negative feedback on a table for a 0.2'' chipped piece of paint, even though the flaw was printed in BOLD 24 point font on the item page.

    Some people are ***** retards, and we should have the right to tell them that they're ***** retards. I've lost all respect for eBay.
    • wrboyce, on 05/20/2008, -21/+7Based on your comment, I have lost all respect for you.
    • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+3So you reply to his feedback - beware this seller KNOWN flaw well documented negged me anyway.

      SO whats so hard about that?
      • aogail, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Replies don't help. They are unverifiable, and as such don't make any difference to buyers researching your feedback.
    • pompeyjohn, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2Because the negative feedback reduces the sellers sale-price-value in the community.

      I dont think you understand how eBay works.
  • kwijib0, on 05/20/2008, -9/+23My first negative feedback from a customer: Customer buys some books from me and sends a check so I told him there's a two business week wait, AFTER I get the check, for me to send out the merchandise. Ten calendar days after the eBay bid closed (after the bid closed!), he gives me a negative feedback because I haven't sent the merchandise to him. He sends me an email asking where his stuff is and what's the tracking number then two hours later he leaves negative feedback, before I've even read his email.

    I try to give the guy a break by accepting a personal check and he screws me. The check cleared just fine but he jumped the gun with his feedback.

    We all know there are pain-in-the-ass customers that we'd just as soon do without. One or two people out of 100 who try and play a seller to get something they didn't buy (if it's not in the ad, you're not getting it!) or because they didn't read the ad. They give feedback which shows they didn't read the ad or some other stupidity but it's a demerit against a seller with no way for me to give my side of the story.

    I'm not a merchant but I do sell items regularly on eBay. I'd just as soon not sell to a buyer with a track record of screwing sellers with the unreasonable behavior I've already mentioned. Now I have no way of knowing who those scam artists are.

    But you know what? This has opened a cottage industry for someone who wants to start a web site to rate eBay buyers. Sellers can go there and leave ratings or feedback, outside of eBay, to rate customer/buyer incidents. If one of you wants to take my idea, go ahead and run with it.
    • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Great Idea sign me up HD
    • petrodollar, on 05/21/2008, -5/+4You shoulda just kept the check and never sent the merchandise.
    • Alegoo92, on 05/21/2008, -6/+3Well to be honest he can leave you negative comments even if he knew what he was getting into: so as to warn others of your bogus two week delay period. Why can't you send it out sooner?
    • Commodore84, on 05/21/2008, -8/+4Yeah why do you have to wait TWO WEEKS? Just to stick it to him for using a check? Checks clear immediately, and you can call after a day or two to make sure it cleared. This isn't the 80s anymore.
    • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2And answer me this kwikib WHAT is the damage to you? Explain that to me? WHAT HARM did that neg DO to you besides taking up a few seconds of your time to REPLY to it "Seller sent personal check was notified of 14day wait negged me before this time passed The boosk were shipped once payment cleared"

      Whats so hard about that?
    • BoFox, on 05/23/2008, -0/+0Wow, that was a great idea about rating buyers outside of Ebay. The website should be called something like www.ebaybuyerratings.com, but ebay might get very pissed off about it and try to sue the website for even having user names on it, which is supposed to be "private" or "exclusive" to ebay or something like that.

      By the way, yeah, a 2-week waiting period for checks is apt to piss off at least 10% of the buyers out there who use personal checks, so if you want good feedback, better not offer personal checks at all as a payment option.
  • geneikillua, on 05/20/2008, -15/+5Ebay's new policy sucks monkey balls. That's all I have to say about that.
  • mysuicide84, on 05/20/2008, -9/+16I can see how it's totally fair to block sellers from leaving neutral/negative feedback...NOT! Let the waves of non paying bidders begin!!!

    Don't even get me started on the "star" ratings either... these new changes really suck.
    • jerrycurley, on 05/21/2008, -9/+1You DO realize it is 2008, right? You did not just come out of a matinee showing of Wayne's World in 1992. Seriously...the "not" thing has been over for quite awhile.
  • PinkFloydFan, on 05/20/2008, -10/+2Fair Outcomes is an innovative company that's looking into conflict resolution. Check it.

    http://digg.com/tech_news/Fair_Outcomes_Using_Game ...
  • websyndicate, on 05/20/2008, -7/+12They don't have hookers on eBay.....craigslist....enough said
    • strictnein, on 05/20/2008, -1/+4I'd rather ***** a storm drain.
    • petrodollar, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Craigslist is nowhere near as useful for getting laid now as it was 5 years or so ago when you could just post that you were going to watch the game at bar X and if any ladies are interested they should come and join you. Attractive people never post there anymore because they don't like getting their inboxes spammed with pictures of fat, hairy freaks. My last craigslist hookup was a pretty good one but that was over two years ago.
  • MomentOfClarity, on 05/20/2008, -5/+31This is definitely a good thing.

    There's far too much retaliatory feedback left from ***** merchants on honest buyers.

    If a payment is not received by the merchant, what more is needed than the ability to file an unpaid item dispute and move on?
  • cuntmate99, on 05/20/2008, -3/+7too ***** right
  • Jpardue, on 05/20/2008, -9/+157A++++++ ARTICLE.... SUPER FAST POSTING ON DIGG!!!!! WILL DO DIGGING AGAIN!!!!! A++++++++++!!!!!!
  • Scottievm, on 05/20/2008, -25/+16A++++++++++++++ Would Digg Again!!!1!!!!
    • Masterful1, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1as I thumb through the digg comments I always see this, about an hour into the story's life on digg, two people pop in with the same exact comment thought at roughly the same time. I wonder if I will be the guy who posts my comment first, or if I will be the one who gets buried.
  • taradisiac, on 05/20/2008, -15/+5BOYCOTT EBAY
    • JimmyTheClam, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1What if I just boycott/block you and then I don't have to ready your idiotic posts?
      Works for me.
  • pradaaddict, on 05/20/2008, -4/+9I hope this step makes it easier to deal with merchants on eBay. Any sellers may disagree with me but i got really tired of merchants who sold me fake ***** while claiming it was real then leaving negative feedback on my account after i left negative feedback on theirs for saying it was faker than a L.A. smile.
  • TheInformer, on 05/20/2008, -5/+48eBay quit being about people years ago. Now it's just another commercialized site filled with professional vendors.
    • dgreichert, on 05/21/2008, -0/+7correction- "home businesses" who specialize in selling stuff from drop-ship websites with disgustingly high hidden shipping rates
  • scabbers, on 05/20/2008, -10/+4Cry more, you counterfeit selling douchebags.
  • HumanRecall, on 05/20/2008, -9/+3EVIL BAY sucks period -feedback is retared - people are going to buy and sell regardless cause they are desperate thats why they are on ebay !!
  • tmgneuguy, on 05/20/2008, -4/+25I understand both sides of this issue. Buyers want to be able to leave honest feedback without suffering from the seller leaving negative feedback if they don't like the buyer's feedback. At the same time, sellers want to protect themselves from potential bad buyers.

    What if eBay just created a way so that each person's feedback remained hidden until both parties have left feedback? Once both people leave feedback, it becomes locked and can't be changed.
    • eminn3m, on 05/21/2008, -0/+6I intitally liked this idea, only problem is sometimes people leave negative comments for minor things that could easily be resolved if they would've just communicated.
  • blacklabelrum, on 05/20/2008, -6/+6I totally agree with this, there are far to many dishonest sellers on ebay. To many times items are sold by sellers and they do not reply to buyers who paid for the item up front if there is a problem. Negative may never be left by them because of fear of they doing the same. Great job Ebay!
    • seabreezemm, on 05/21/2008, -2/+4I hate to be the bringer of bad news but there are as many bad bidders as sellers and this move to move total power into the hands of the bidder is a very bad move for ebay. Any time one side of an issue has all the power abuse and curruption will follow.
  • BonusEruptus, on 05/20/2008, -2/+13Perfect, and on the same day I'm dealing with an ***** who's got a listing made up to look like it's for a game, but buried deep in the small print is "case only".

    I wish you could retract bids for misleading items, because this ***** is like falling for the "XBox box" auction, and there's not much I can do without taking a ding to my reputation.
    • chaosevil, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Make a new account and bid with it getting your other ID out of the deal.
    • BonusEruptus, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0Thanks for the tip. I just retracted it yesterday and said I fat-fingered the wrong price ($44), but the right price ($14) was below the current high bid, so I couldn't give a legit bid.

      I may take a ding to my account, but I could seriously give a *****.
  • x1soundgarden1x, on 05/20/2008, -5/+9Completely and utterly ridiculous. I've sold dozens of things on eBay before and will never sell on it again.That feedback option was the only thing that allowed me to restrict bad buyers from bidding on my items, and was the only recourse I had when buyers were late on payment or lied about the condition of the item. Now sellers will have virtually no power. Without sellers offering lots of unique and interesting items, the buyers will leave. This is just a stupid, stupid solution to a problem that could have been addressed differently.
    • petrodollar, on 05/21/2008, -1/+1Just restrict it so that only people with valid paypal accounts can bid. If they don't pay, you can always just take it up with paypal.
  • WriterSD, on 05/20/2008, -3/+21I believe the people who think this a great idea have not sold many items on eBay. Now con artists and reputable buyers will all have 100% positive feedback? Buyers can certainly game the system too. Just as some sellers do, some buyers leave negative feedback for no good reason. Now other sellers can't be alerted to the buyer's actions. Nice.

    I'm a seller (well, I was a seller) and although 99% of my buyers have been awesome, there are some messed up ones out there. This is not a good idea.
    • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3NO ebay needs to get those BUYERS off ebay so there "feedback" will be meaningless. Get it. The problem is not the buyers its ebay not getting RID of them. Most are too stupid to even bother changing there IP. how bout if a "known bad" ip logs in again require positive identification. At the minimum a phone call if they do not like what they hear fax in ID. There 95% of your buyer problem is solved.

      HOW do I know your a good seller WriterSD? for all I know you screwed the last 40 people you sold too but I will never know because of the veiled threat of retaliatory feedback prevented them from leaving you a negative?

      FINE you do not like the solution THEM GIVE ME ANOTHER ONE!!!
    • LightPhoenix, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Then you should have 99% positive feedback and 1% negative. I think most people are smart enough to realize what is going on there.
  • toxford, on 05/21/2008, -3/+8I've sold more than I've purchased on ebay (with a 98% positive). 1 out of every 15 of my auctions is won by someone who doesn't pay or make contact. I don't understand if they are doing this to be jerks or if they're selling a similar item and complicating my sale. Regardless, if I can't leave negative feedback, how can other sellers be aware of deadbeat buyers?
    • jdaniel284, on 05/21/2008, -0/+12File a non-paying bidder report. Other sellers can choose to block bidders with a given amount of non-paying bidder complaints.
  • paradexes, on 05/21/2008, -1/+16ebay lost its charm years ago. The hassles for bidding for an item only to find you save 5 bucks on it but then that savings translates to spending 40 bucks more just to get the damn thing shipped to you after waiting and sniping the bid for weeks or days, just is not worth it. Amazon.com all the way for me.
    • fabio1, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3for people living overseas (like me) ebay still remains the only option in most cases, as most stores won´t sell for international customers.
    • vagarach, on 05/21/2008, -0/+3Bidding wars have an uncanny ability to quickly escalate the price to retail, which negates the whole point really.

      Ebay is still great for finding old and slightly rare pc games though!
  • akatsuki, on 05/21/2008, -0/+11Hmmm... why not just move to another auction site, there are still a couple left, barriers to entry are low to begin with.

    There are a couple million ways this could be handled better. Seller first (once payment is received and mandatory if Paypal is used), invisible feedback until mutual, etc... But since eBay is apparently run by people who have no imaginations...
    • thaboosh, on 05/21/2008, -1/+3invisible feedback is a ***** brilliant idea
      • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -0/+5 akatsukiakatsuki
        "eBay is apparently run by people who have no imaginations..."
        yes after 8 yrs dealling there , you hit it bang on the head.
    • anubis2night, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Ebay can't be asked to make the system better, they are too busy adjusting the fee's and rates to bring in more profit. Expecting them to provide a service beyond the original software is ludicrous, what's next improve customer service? If your lucky they might give you another clever commercial, if your lucky...
  • BigglesPiP, on 05/21/2008, -3/+9All the good points of this could have been achieved by forcing sellers to leave feedback before buyers. Say; leave feedback for the buyer within 3 days or good feedback will automatically be left.
    • shwerm601, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1or good feedback is automatically left, and what if they are mid problem trying to resolve an issue with a payment? It depends on type of payment for that to work
    • GrantTLC, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1And doesn't leaving an *automatic* good mark defeat the point of having feedback in the first place?
  • vacuum2440, on 05/21/2008, -3/+2this is a pretty dumb move by ebay...hell they just seem to be doing everything wrong and it all started with the poor search engine.
    i've been using GetItNext for all of my searches because i cant stand their search. Go figure i have to go to a 3rd party web app to do something so simple..pathetic
  • Markers, on 05/21/2008, -3/+33This is absolutely fantastic! I'm sick and tired of being held hostage by sellers even though I've held up end of the deal by providing payment minutes after the auction has ended.

    Recently I purchased an item from a foreign merchant that was DOA; after overcoming the language barrier he promptly shipped me a replacement and covered the cost to send back the defective item, awesome. I left him "positive" feedback stating that the original item was defective but he shipped me a replacement immediately, A++. He must have misinterpreted what I said because he left negative feedback saying something to the effect of "bother me. unhappy customer. liar.". What a ***** *****.
    • dgreichert, on 05/21/2008, -0/+4Just like your local flea market... except instead of negative feedback, its having him mug you.
    • lemination, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1maybe the defective item never arrived /got lost in the mail / whatever, and he assumed you lied and just decided to keep both items.
    • iddybiddy, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2Do you think sellers are going to tire of being held hostage by buyers now ?

      Non paying bidders, extortionists are already showing up in droves and threatening good sellers. The irony is that the policy's intended target ( bad sellers ) won't bat an eyelid at the changes and will just set up new IDs while all the good sellers will move on from ebay. What a joke.
    • dukemaskot, on 05/21/2008, -0/+0how is he a *****, u said it yourself that he misunderstood you. wouldn't you leave the same message (albeit more understandable) if you thought the buyer left you a negative feedback?

      please reply
  • DannySpace, on 05/21/2008, -4/+5After reading the entire New Policy, I was actually impressed with all the new updates. I don't use ebay much anymore but would definitely go back to it if I felt more confidant in the purchases I select. Also, they have banned those moronic Mystery Auctions and Ebook shilling scams. Now that's a step in the right direction if you ask me. Perhaps It's time I gave ebay another chance. Besides, I truly believe those who are up in arms about the changes are the ones who were ruining it for everyone.
  • jefuchs, on 05/21/2008, -4/+47Today has been declared a national holiday in Nigeria!
  • Groovydoo, on 05/21/2008, -3/+7Why use eBay any more? Search engines, Amazon, Craig's List or otherwise are so much faster are far less hassle.EBay was great circa 1999 but it died in 2005 and not it's starting to stink!
  • hempydave, on 05/21/2008, -3/+5What the hell good is it if every buyer is rated 100% just because they paid?
    I've had a guy scam me saying he didn't get the items when I had two delivery confirmations from UPS on both packages.
    Had to refund money for he would leave negatives.
    Had a seller black mail me for me to leave good feed back or the would give bad.
    as for empty box case or what ever try to fool you scam sale drives away mom and pops buying for their kids after they lose $400 on an empty X box box or case only CD sale or illegal rip in wrong case or the infamous rock in a Ipod box..
    These people need to be banned then I will put more time into my Ebay store.
    • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -1/+2Then your a moron. YOU can always start a new account. OR how bout this. REPLY to the feedback. Buyer scammed me I Had receipts for signed deliver threatened me.

      How about that? How about DOING some due diligence. File a complaint with ebay. FILE a police report. GO in person and make sure they know its for ebay and I just want this official since I am getting threats from the buyer. They will be glad to help and buy going in your wasting little of there time. E-MAIL the police report to the buyer and say hey keep this up and I will see you in court. They do not have to know you would never BOTHER to take them to court.

      Why were you FORCED to refund? over a potential negative feedback?

      Sounds more to me like you have no clue what your doing.

      Sounds like work? DAMN man thats LIFE. deal with it. YOUR GONNA get crooks and you USE the system to deal with it. IF the system ebay has in place is insufficient then the problem is with EBAY not this feedback crap.

      What would you think if walmart could RUIN your credit just by leaving you a negative feedback in real life? Would that scare the crap out of you?

      There should not even BE feedback for buyers but because of the medium it makes sense.

      Don't you worry about the buyers and others sellers YOU just run your business and do a good job and be SMART. Not stupid.

      PAYING is all thats required of me! When he tried to scam you this had NOTHING to do with ebay and everything to do with the local police or the post master. (mail fraud)

      Thats like saying when I buy something at walmart I am OBLIGATED to leave them feedback or to fill out there survey. Stop being silly.
  • wildmXranat, on 05/21/2008, -1/+7I've got nothing but praise for Craigslist. eBay on the other hand, charged me to list, to post extra pictures of the item and on top of it all the only bids that came my way were trades for some old junk. 2 offers to trade for old junk versus real payment, while the same items were sold on Craigslist without a hitch. C > E
    • motorhead9999, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Yes, but remember, ebay reaches a far wider audience than craigslist, and most cases, craigslist doesn't work unless you happen to be in the area of the seller, or willing to drive there. Not to mention that craigslist is highly disorganized and doesn't allow for detailed category searching.

      Craigslist is AWESOME if you're trying to find stuff to sell...people sell collectibles and antiques at really low prices. Its also great if you have a really large item that would be prohibitive to ship costwise.

      I really can't argue with the fees ebay charges. For the audience I reach (that I couldn't reach with craigslist, or other places), the fees I incur (and I sell a lot of stuff) are minimal compared to what I earn.
      • anubis2night, on 05/21/2008, -0/+1Sounds like Craigslist should start up a auction section to their site, I've already emailed Craigslist about it and hope that many others will also.
    • danielsamuels, on 05/21/2008, -0/+2I got a job by using Craigslist.

      A++ would use again.
  • coresnake, on 05/21/2008, -4/+17***** ebay and ***** paypal especially
  • JackSchittt, on 05/21/2008, -11/+30I've been using Ebay for 10 years. While I may continue using their service as a buyer, I will no longer sell items on that site because of this policy.

    I am one of those sellers a lot of people complain about. I do not leave feedback for the buyer until feedback is left for me. Why? Because a transaction isn't over just because the buyer pays. Anything could happen after that, legitimate or otherwise. There could be a problem or question about the item I sold after the buyer receives the item. The buyer could pull one of the numerous stunts available in an attempt to screw me over. The item could get lost in the mail. I inform the buyer of this beforehand: Feedback is not left for you until feedback is left for me. No exceptions. I consider the buyer leaving feedback as his acknolwedgment that the transaction completed successfully. Once the buyer leaves feedback saying everything is (or isn't) Ok, then I leave feedback in return.

    As a buyer, I hold myself to the same standard. I pay for the item immediately, and leave feedback once the item is received in satisfactory condition, whether or not it was left for me. I don't hunt down sellers to leave me feedback, either. If they leave it, fine. If they don't, fine.

    I've had both buyers and sellers pull unbelievable stunts over the years. I had a guy buy a rare sports card off me, try to touch up a couple of imperfections, then demand a refund once he realized that the card was now worthless. I just recently tried to buy a phone off Ebay, only to have the seller stall me for almost 3 weeks, then finally admit he never owned the phone in the first place when I told him i was turning him into Ebay and Paypal. I've had the "I'll send you more than it's worth. Send the item to Africa and keep the extra money for yourself!" scams attempted on me. You name it, I've seen it.

    Quite frankly, this is the worst possible way they could have changed the feedback system. There are so many other, better suggestions out there. This one only drives sellers away and opens the ones who stay to dozens of different scams from buyers.

    • Nerys, on 05/21/2008, -6/+3And what happens when I get an item that is broken not as advertised OR I get NO ITEM. I tell the seller about this and they basically say SCREW YOU.

      Now what JackSchitt ? Now what do I do? Ebay is not going to do anything. The police will not do anything but laugh at me. The court costs will usually be greater than the value of the item. MY ONLY RECOURSE is to at least try and warn other buyers HEY this seller burned me.

      With YOUR policy your are largely shielded from this. Sellers have an automatic advantage. They have both the product AND my money. They can also create a new account anytime they want with MINIMAL damage. You say but they I have no reputation. Thats minor because "I" want what you have so I am going to bid.

      Also sellers tends to have THOUSANDS of feedbacks so a neg here or there is nothing. Some buyers have less than 20feeback 1 neg can KILL them. YOU know it and THEY know it.

      SO what happens? Well intelligently off course the buyer knows he is beat and walks away leaving NO feedback at all.

      I had one friend who even left a POSITIVE feedback with the negative message this sellers screwed me and blackmailed me with feedback. He got negged anyway.

      They use it as a how dare you defy us sellers Settings examples sending a message positive feedback is the ONLY acceptable feedback even if we screw you!

      SO JackSchitt tell me HOW WOULD YOU as a seller resolve this.

      I think the seller should be "required" to always leave feedback and should be required to do so BEFORE the buyer does.

      Ebay is making oodles of money there should be a moderating process for disputes.

      I have no idea how to properly fix this but I DO KNOW this policy is better than the existing one.

      I AM THE ONE WHO IS IMPORTANT HERE "JackSchitt" I am the one paying ebay NOT YOU. I AM the one paying the fees paying for the site paying for the bandwidth. How? I BUY YOUR STUFF! (I being "buyers")

      Ebay has for a long time had a very PRO seller stance and its not a good one. You should never burn your sellers but also NEVER at the cost of burning your buyers.

      The existing feedback system is utterly worthless. Do you know how much BOGUS feedback there is? How many times I see 10,000 plus feedbacks and NO NEGS. Thats statistically IMPOSSIBLE.

      If you did that 1 million times I would wadger my lifes income you will NEVER have someone with 10,000 feedback and NO negative feedback unless someone was GAMING the system.

      YOU WILL ALWAYS have negs even if its from the MORON buyer who is upset about the shipment not arrive via teleporter.

      BUT buyers are not dumb either. They realize feedback is a lot more important for a buyer than it is for a seller because a seller can DENY you access if you have low of negative feedback.

      Imagine if you needed a Credit Check to walk into a store to buy something.

      The seller should NEVER be able to leave negative feedback about the buyer. Show me ONE buyer/seller arrangement in the normal every day citizens real life that has something like this? There is not a single one.

      NOW doing things electronically changes the rules a bit. There needs to be a way to weed out "griefers" shill bidders people who bid retract and steal. People who bid and never pay.

      this should be an internal EBAY thing not a public thing.

      Most of this comes from ebay's greed. Charge as much as they can DO as little as they can.

      Piss off enough of your buyers and you die. its that simple. YES there needs to be balance. but "I will not leave feedback as a seller until YOU leave me "positive" feedback" (YES some outright STATE positive feedback there not even trying to HIDE the veil of the threat)

      Once I pay I AM DONE. Period. I DID my job. I am due my feedback NOW thankyou.

      If something ELSE happens later THATS what your REPLY to feedback is for.

      Your idea would be like me having a bad deal at Best Buy. I try to resolve it they tell me to screw off. SO I goto the BBB to file a complaint and the BBB says you know if you