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- TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -5/+50uh, schestowitz, way to link to an article from January. Really old news.
Nice to see the Zune holdin' steady. More competition will make us all happy. - TKn00b, on 10/12/2007, -4/+48Well lets have a look at Apple's market share for computers. Its not that far off from the Zune's share of hard drive based mp3 players. You wouldn't call apple a failing computer company would you.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33It's not a pro-Microsoft website (Well, not how you're trying to make it out to be) and the article only relays information which has nothing to do with the site it's posted on.
Just because he posts NPD numbers on that site doesn't make them magically change. - GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -7/+28Hah! schestowitz saying the article is on a "pro-Microsoft" site?
Dude, have you READ your own submitted articles? Or comments?
http://digg.com/users/schestowitz/news/submitted
He pretty just whores www.edge-op.org
Look at that nice image on the top of the page. "Bad Vista". - kaelyiesta, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17as long as J Allard is still in charge it really makes no difference if just one 'zune executive' leaves. Yay to competition. Boo to mindless fanboys.
- NiGHTSChao, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14You pretty much can
Open up the Zune Sync menu, drag and drop any files (music/vids/photos) you want and then it goes to your Zune
I personally organize my playlist via MediaMonkey, then highlight everything I need and drag it from MM, to the Zune sync menu
I hated all that automatic ***** the Zune software had on it, I turned it all off - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -10/+20January is a step up from 10 year old emails.
It's funny, people like schestowitz will so valiantly defend free markets, competition, 'say no to monopolies,' and all that but when Microsoft is there they just continue on being ignorant whores.
Then, when you call them out on this they accuse you of being a Microsoft employee and so on. - NiGHTSChao, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19I love my Zune and I'm very happy that its becoming a success
- tsctsc, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15The Zen Vision:M destroys both of them. It's too bad it gets so little attention.
- halleyscomet, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13@schestowitz
Microsoft's current goal is to rule the #2 spot, to beat all of the iPod's competitors. You can't really take on the iPod without first defeating the products nipping at it's heels.
This is stage 1, and they're succeeding.
At least the Zune is on track to MAKE money, as opposed to the XBOX line that's LOST $5 billion. - wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11The reality is there are many many capable mp3 players, its a shame that so many uninformed people just buy on impulse. the market would be better off if people committed to becoming just a little better informed before they purchase.
- eliasg, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13I still have yet to see one in the wild...
- Aaronichi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12someone's on a payroll...
- rhomsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"The WiFi thing is actually pretty cool if you live in a l;arge metopolitan area like New York or San Fransisco where ou are likely to encounter other people with zunes."
No you're not. Your odds of winning the lottery, getting abducted by aliens or installing vista without a driver problem are higher. - readme, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6All Zune accomplished was cannibalizing the PlaysForSure market. Over 10M iPods were sold last quarter alone. Zune is struggling to hit 1M sold by June, and if reports are correct, they are nowhere near making that number.
MS insiders claim that Bill Gates personally despises the Zune project. He would rather offer a more PC-like model such as PlaysForSure. There's apparently fragmented camps and schools of thought internally at MS. This is why PlaysForSure was not killed altogether and you have two opposing models offered by MS. If you read interviews with Gates, he's always downplaying Zune's potential (but never downplaying the product outright). - bearsfan34, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5An electronic gadget or a car shouldn't validate who you are as a person. Anyone who's embarrassed by what they own is pretty shallow. Status symbols & "keeping up with the Jones'" is for the immature.
- rockonreddog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I love my Zune but it's true, I have yet to see one when I'm walking around. When I'm commuting to work and I watch videos on it, I have people on the train asking me what it is. They have to step up their advertising campaign cause a lot of people out there have no idea what it is!!
- n1pz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You can do a simple registry hack that pretty much opens that up for you.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Actually, no, we're very different, Schestowitz submits only blatant lies and FUD where-as mine are for the most part just harmelss stories like that that would otherwise most likely not be posted because of the amount of mindless-lemmings.
And what do you do ? Oh, you're just a blatant Apple fanboy who insults everyone else, and that's about it. - Nightwind, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"hard-drive" mp3 player market. uh-huh. That term is losing its meaning quickly. iPod Nanos 8GB for example are flash based, and larger flash-based players are in the works. I'd like to see a comparison on the terms of "mp3 players over 4GB".
- ragipy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Microsoft generally doesn't get it right first time anyway with any product (windows 1.0 anyone?), but they do a better job at listening to customers than most companies. Lets hope they'll improve it for the next version so we see more competition, possible price cuts for ipods etc.
- zip22, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8nat, you can load the ipod with winamp and mediamonkey. you can even use a handful of programs on linux. apple doesn't officially support it, but they haven't locked it down either. the zune is (for now) much more tied down than the ipod.
- noahhoward, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The market seems to think otherwise. Seriously people if the MP3 market is so great without the iPod, why did it take the iPod to take the market anywhere?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I also want to see MTP die. It becomes a pain in the arse to fill up your player on Mac or Linux. Many PlaysForSure players barely work on Linux or Mac.
- lotion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ the headguy:
There are plenty of competitors. Not so much in the palmheld HD based players (most commonly classified as DAPs) but with PMP (the larger, handheld HD based players) and flash based players (think Nano), most definitely.
Take for example, Cowon. Specifically, the A2 (PMP) and D2 (flash-based). Both are fine products, the especially the A2, but they cater to a different market. The A2 is wonderful for the person who travels a lot (larger screen, a true-multimedia experience) while the D2 is more for the casual listener / viewer (think someone who listens to music while running or working out).
Another fine example, Archos. Archos pioneered the HD mp3 player way back in the day. Fortunately, they're no longer their players are no longer the behemoths they once were. They've done well with the 500 series and 600 series (604) PMPs. Again, they're larger than the iPod or Zune but with the larger size comes better viewing.
Finally, the flash-based market is saturated with great players that hardly get a chance. Take, for example, the Meizu M6. Think of it like a Nano with a larger screen. Personally, I'm trying to find someone in China to grab me the 8gb model that recently came out. Look it up, it has gotten nothing but positive reviews.
The only real players in the DAP market (palmhelds) at the moment, in my opinion anyway, are Microsoft and Apple but Creative also tends to put out a pretty good product. The only thing that sets the top out apart from the rest, however, is their big name and the fact that Apple has the jump on design and being a pioneer while Microsoft has the really good hardware.
Other companies, such as Samsung, SanDisk (surprisingly), and Creative are releasing other players that are getting better and better all the time. If you look around a bit, you'll see that there are plenty of good players out there, just not so many with the big names. - simons1321, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I think what everyone is missing from schestowitz's comment is that the January article he refers to cites NDP numbers at 10.2% for the Zune and the new NDP numbers state 9.1%.... I don't call a 1.1% drop "holdin steady" when you're talking about millions and millions of hard drive based media players that have been sold so far. Thats an estimated drop of about 130,000 units from Jan.
- CalgaryTechGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I guess it really depends on how you quantify success. If MS thinks that 10% of the market is enough, GREAT! I'm not sure that 10% would even payback their R&D costs, though.
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I've still yet to see a Zune in public. Well, except for the dusty demo unit on the store display. So if the Zune is "holding steady," I have no idea where. Maybe I'd see some on the streets of Redmond?
- klawz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I agree with you, but the iPod has a market audience, the ones who don't really want or need the extra options. I think the Zune has a market too, or those who do need/want the extra options. I feel the same is with the PS3, those who need/want/think they need the extra options, vs the Xbox360 crowd who want to buy the extra options al-la-carte. There is a market for almost everyone out there, and catering to the top 3 or so usually makes you a winner, you don't have to be #1 to get enough of the $-pie to be profitable.
- chris86wm, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Im one of the few people out there that sold their video iPods to buy a Zune. I had to return my iPod after 3 months of light use (never left its $30 protective case and wasn't left out in the sun) because of a hard drive failure. A buddy of mine had the battery die on his with only 6 months of use. As soon as I got my replacement iPod Video, it went up on ebay.
I used the money to buy a Zune and I couldn't be happier. I got a great deal on it (thanks slickdeals.net) and the thing is built like a tank. Been using it since the release and I haven't had a single problem.
I'm not a Microsoft fanboy by any means, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Zune continue to gain market share. More competition = better products for us! - brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3argumentum ad populum. More people buying it does not a superior device make.
- Gir53457, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I hated the click wheel on the ipod. I'd always overshoot the song I was looking for. It looks cool, but a D-Pad would have been so much more practical.
- zip22, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2the zune does not have more features than the ipod.
- chris86wm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5And the original xbox was the #2 selling console on the market
..............we see how well that turned out - Quix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5"someone's on a payroll..."
You may want to check estvir's submission and comment history. He's simply the Microsoft Yin to schestowitz's Linux Yang. Throw them both in the same thread and watch the entertainment unfold! - 35263526, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Er... Wireless? Even things as simple as background customization, which the iPod lacks. It has more features. You can argue that they're not that useful, but they're definitely there.
- br0ck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ilyaq
"Let's first consider Microsoft's Home & Entertainment Division ("H&E"), which includes Xbox 360, Xbox, Xbox Live, Consumer Software and Hardware Products, and IPTV. Making money, i.e., the creation of long-term shareholder value, has got to be the ultimate driver of Microsoft's gaming (and H&E) strategy, right? Well, after five years and over $21 billion invested, all they've got to show for it is $5.4 billion of cumulative operating losses, and Xbox 360 doesn't appear to be the silver bullet to turn things around."
http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/04/18/xbox-microsoft-nintendo-pf-ii-in_re_0418soapbox_inl.html - rockets, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4NPD is a Microsoft Lover. I know, I was in their sample group until I realized I couldn't answer any
computer-related question with Linux. - WITFITS, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I can't speak to the successes or failures of the Zune not owning one, but if nothing else competition is always good since it encourages all players (Apple, Microsoft, etc.) to improve their product and not become complacent. At least theoretically.
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Several of you point out it's NPD data, but NPD are notorious for being 'buddies' with Microsoft. To name some examples:
Microsoft's Xbox 360 US sales-NPD story withdrawn
^^^
,----[ Quote ]
| The Los Angeles story headlined "Microsoft's Xbox 360 US sales
| top first Xbox--NPD" is withdrawn because the data supporting the
| story may be inaccurate. Reuters is waiting for an update from the
| company. A new story may be issued.
`----
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061208:MTFH45656_2006-12-08_01-12-52_N07221320&type=comktNews&rpc=44
Vista: better than expected
,----[ Quote ]
| But wait! The NPD Group? Isn't it that market research firm which
| spotted the opportunities offered by the corporate movie and music
| companies from afar and almost overnight became an expert on p2p
| file sharing with, "highly questionable statistics blatantly
| slanted towards the entertainment cartels?"
`----
http://p2pnet.net/story/10999
Early Vista Sales Don't Tell the Whole Story
,----[ Quote ]
| This week, NPD released limited channel data for Windows Vista licenses
| sold to businesses through resellers like CompuCom, Softmart and Software
| Spectrum.
|
| [...]
|
| To be clear: The missing information is to be expected, and I don't
| mean to reflect poorly on Swenson or NPD. Research firms aren't in
| the business of giving away information to the news media, but
| selling it to clients. The information provided to the press
| should be incomplete.
`----
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/early_vista_sales_dont_tell_the_whole_story.html - socket, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I own a Zune and love it. I'm not a "Windows" person either. In fact the only time I'm in Windows is to play Counter-Strike: Source and mess with my Zune.
- rhomsy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Welcome to the Social.... Here's your $hitbrick.
- sriggins, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"second only to Apple's iPod, which presumably controlled most of the other .."
Well if they had accurate numbers there would be no need to presume, would there?
I was told that this same source, last month, showed Zune with a 9% market share, but the report convieniently did not account for sales from Apple's own retail stores? - brstilson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Not a superior device, but a simple, innovative and easy-to-use one."
but the Zen Vision is a better device. More features, better price, plays more video and audio formats, etc. - koregaonpark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Not a superior device, but a simple, innovative and easy-to-use one.
- natmaster, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11@strabes
Yup, iPod sux. Apple's so monopolistic. - koregaonpark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Actually, the Xbox (360) didn't turn out that well. The PS3 and the Wii are beating it in actual sales. Hype doesn't always = sales.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I want to see players use USB Mass Storage rather than MTP after DRM dies.
- totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"the article only relays information which has nothing to do with the site it's posted on."
Exactly. Of course, the article (by Paul Thurrott), also doesn't say "Zune a failure? Its seems not" That is your spin.
Even the author of the article calls Microsoft's claims "unintentional comedy", on his own blog: http://www.internet-nexus.com/2007/04/microsoft-touts-zune-successes.htm - linuxyman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I dont like DRM in music players like the iPod and the Zune >.<
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