What is Digg?207 Comments
- koregaonpark, on 10/12/2007, -9/+70$5 = 400 points
$15 = 1200 points
$25 = 2000 points
$50 = 4000 points
If
$5 = 400 points
then
$1 = 80 points
therefore
100 cents = 80 points
meaning
1 cent = .8 points
or
1 point = 1.25 cents
LOL - noliberalbull, on 10/12/2007, -3/+50yes, but at least with nintendo's system 1point=1 cent, 100 points=$1... much easier
- TheWriteGuy, on 10/12/2007, -10/+47...PROFIT!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31So basically, we give Microsoft money, and they in return give us points. But we may not use all that points, or if they are any left over points, it might not be sufficient enough to buy another song, but Microsoft gets every 'valuable' penny from that cash-to-points conversion. Our left over points worth nothing (unless we top up even more points). That isn't fair, now is it?
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -6/+34Shhh, keep the Zune criticism to a whisper, folks. You're going to wake up flag564. And you know how upset he gets when he sees Zune criticism. He goes flippin' nutso!
(whisper) $1 = 79 points? That's just MSIdiotic. Good luck with the Zune scam, Redmond. This will win consumers away from the "evil iPod" how exactly? Ah, the old "dazzle them with confusion" ploy. Genius! (/whisper) - swicklund, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32vandread - said: 1) The point system is what allows Microsoft to bring multiple platforms together to have content distributed through one system. Its cheaper to run one system than 10 different ones. So it makes sense for Microsoft to do this.
The point is not to make it easy on Microsoft's programmers, it should be easy for the CONSUMER - ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26This point system pisses me off to no end. If companies like MS don't want to run through $1.00 credit card transactions and get burned on them - then they can still make you "buy in bulk" you just don't convert it to meaningless "points".
Tell them: The song is $.99 - but the least you can purchase/deposit is: $5.00
Then leave the remaining $4.01 as DOLLARS and CENTS.
The point system is ridiculous and unnecessary. - Civil44, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25estvir - He woke up with a sense of humor. Something you seem to lack.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23Apple does a single charge if all you buy is one song.
They just wait a day or so in case you make other purchases, then bundle them.
Credit card companies can pretty easily handle charges in the amount of a dollar now.
What I really don't like about the Microsoft system is that it misleads consumers by having points that are worth ALMOST as much as a penny. So people naturally tend to think 1 point equals one penny, and Microsoft makes bank on the confusion (and on the amounts you can't spend because the multiples you buy are not equal to the multiples you can spend on anything).
Microsoft's point system is, like the lottery, a tax on those bad at math. - oxyrubber, on 10/12/2007, -8/+27I refuse to buy into a middle-currency scheme.
MS makes a little more money by not having to run CC transactions of less than $3 by letting you "buy in bulk", but they don't pass any of the savings off to you.
Also, how do you know that they won't make songs more expensive (in terms of points) later on, after you have already exchanced your Dollars for points. Dave and Busters inflates their ticket currency all the time. Why couldn't MS do the same with Zune? If I buy points, I'm using them immediately before any inflation can happen. - WinterSolstice, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Biased yes - but not wrong in this regard.
I thought the same thing with my Xbox points. I bought them, but I can't do anything with them (the remainder, anyhow), and I can't get them back.
It'd be like purchasing $1.50 in iTunes song credits... that's one song, and Apple keeping the rest.
-WS - altjeringa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Here is the deal. You will always have at minimum a few cents balance in your Zune account, it's almost impossible not to, though the chances are pretty good that at any given point you'll have at least a few dollars there. Multiply that by hundreds of thousands of users and Microsoft is making a pretty buck on the "Float."
Banks hold a check for 48 - 72 hours if it's from another bank. If it's cash it's available immediately and usually the same if it's a check from another bank. This is because it takes that long to transfer the money from another bank to your bank.
Banks pay interest on the money you given them to hold for you.
So yes this is genius, if you are Microsoft. The money may not seem like alot to a single user, 5 dollars here 2 cents there, but it's a bankfull for M$. On the other hand it is... well... underhanded, unneccesary, and makes things more complicated for the user. Which is what you should expect when dealing with M$. So if you bought a Zune... you got what you deserved. - fallenone05, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18@estvir
there are benefits...if you are a Microsoft shareholder - Stepbasin, on 10/12/2007, -10/+27@manibblac1
Ok, I am a bit confused. Are you comparing Microsoft to a BANK?
. . .
Um, what?
No, you see, Microsoft is a software company. They sell software. A bank is a financial institution. And it should be noted that when they hold my money, I earn interest on it.
Oh, and before you make another ridiculous comment, Microsoft isn't a restaurant either (and so we don't leave tips).
But thanks for making me smile this morning. - TheWriteGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15It's similar to having to buy "coupons" or "tickets" in order to ride the rides or play the midway games at a carnival. And it feels just as scammy on your wallet.
- JnOrris, on 10/12/2007, -10/+24yea but we have that common thing called our national currency which most people so far have gotten used to. But apparently that whole money thing is too confusing for M$.
- uptown, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14They're doing it to make it appear that you're spending less than you really are unless you actually do the math. 80 points = $1 ... but a lot of people will think that it's more like 80 cents ... so the psychological impact will be that they're spending less. It's the one and only reason they're doing this.
- DaffyDuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Microsoft is going to be investing the money they are borrowing from you with no interest. They are going to be making money from the money left over after you buy a song or two.
- derning, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Same idea as buying tokens at the arcade.
However, if MSFT's main goal here is to drive the Zune's MARKETSHARE to catch Apple's iPod, then Zune Points are a pretty dumb move. It is an attempt to lock users into MSFT's "points" system. But won't this discourage many from using the Zune Marketplace in the first place? Isn't that a dumb thing to do, especially this early in the Zune's infancy? - Stepbasin, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18@ estvir
Benefits? Oh, please share. What are the amazing benefits? - acousticiris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Not totally impossible, just unlikely.
How many versions of Microsoft Office included Clippy by default, regardless of the customer disdain for annoying little virtual creature?
I'm not an iPod fan (actually, I own a "plays for sure" device by Creative), but it does illustrate the differences between the two companies rather well. Every element of Apple's iPod, from the device packaging, the retail store, the software, and the device scream simplicity/minimalist by design. Microsoft tends to make their pdocuts, packaging and software are designed by owners of used car dealerships. - greatblackowl, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17I'm not completely familiar with the Zune Marketplace stuff, but I believe that the same points can be used to buy Zune music as XBox Live stuff (over their internet service or something). I do still agree that it would be better to just use real money, but at least the two microsoft services' money plans are interoperable.
- monkeyrun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11not if it's playforsure :P
- cleverboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@keithmcbride:"as many liberal people as there are on digg right now, i feel like there would be some less ethnocentric comments"
Wow. That's a stretch. Let's ignore the misplaced "ethno" comment and cut right to the heart of the matter. iTunes is in many many countries... and it deals in "money". That's all. I guess that was shorter than I thought. Sorry, your point isn't good enough.
Moreover... with this "CuRrency Abstraction Protocol" Microsoft has instituted, suddenly people are unable to know what something *really* costs immediately... in the comfort of their OWN HOMES! It's like living on the border to a foreign country. Will points cost the same or different in other countries? Are points transferable? How much of your points is Microsoft sitting on? Honestly, its MORE messy for this to be the case. ALSO, please note... fast food restaurants have special deals with credit card companies for this very reason. High purchase rates, and low fraud. That's a combination that will bring credit card companies to the table. It would appear that Microsoft didn't have the base of pre-existing users to promise anything like that (like Apple did with the iPods), but even still. - Odweaver, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@keithmcbride
Zune is US only so making it easier on a global level won't do jack *****. - halik, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10That's pretty much the idea... nice try by msft to help themselves to all the change that's left over from purchases.
- raid517, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10So they get to take your money and do what they want with it until you decide to spend it?
You know an idea like that probably sounds like good business sense - but I think consumers are going to hate it. - slowelectron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9iTMS will gladly transact a one song purchase ($0.99) on my credit card.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9But if you must ALSO buy points in odd multiples for renting 360 movies, then you still have points left over - all the time.
Furthermore, does it make sense that in order for the economics of owning a Zune to work you must also own a 360? I guess it does to Microsoft... and people complain about Apple trying to lock users in! Microsoft is trying to make you buy all Microsoft devices so you'll have more use for those 14 points left in your account. - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9So please explain then how Apple arranged the same deal they have now when they first opened the music store and has zero percent of the market?
The answer is that Microsoft is getting the same deal, and could work just like iTunes - they choose not to.
Apple lowers transaction fees by waiting around a day to submit your charge, grouping together all purchases at that time - after all, songs are like potato chips. You can't buy just one... - cypherz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11@vandread
"1) The point system is what allows Microsoft to bring multiple platforms together to have content distributed through one system. Its cheaper to run one system than 10 different ones. So it makes sense for Microsoft to do this."
You are clearly not a programmer. The points system doesn't have anything to do with multiple platforms. Converting multiple foreign currencies to a base currency is trivial and get this: THEY HAVE TO DO IT ANYWAY. Accountants don't work with "points."
The posters who point out that the points system's purpose is to cut down on cc transactions and force users to buy in bulk are likely correct. Further it allows MS to obscure and manipulate the costs of songs purchased. - ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"... but at least the two microsoft services' money plans are interoperable."
And dollars aren't? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13This already spells the doom for the Zune
- Namco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8estvir, you obviously aren't a Love Line listener or don't know who Adam Corrola is
- TheZorch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I see nothing wrong with Microsoft bashing. I mean is it wrong to bash a company who stabs their business partners in the back on a regular basis, buys competitors out of business, forces their way into markets they traditionally don't belong, and forces OEMs to preinstall their OS and forces them to pay a "tax" for every computer sold even if it doesn't ship with their OS installed?
In correction of my previous comment the articles SAYS Zune Marketplace songs are about the same prices a iTunes songs, but how long will it stay that way because we all know the Microsoft is on the RIAA's side and if they can't get Steve Jobs to raise iTunes prices then they will for damn sure see if they can get Microsoft to raise theirs. - blueskydiver76, on 10/12/2007, -16/+24This is recockulous. Do the people that use this scheme (xbox or zunies) realize that they are gonna get facked somehow in the end (no pun intended). MS is gonna have billions of these points sitting around doing nothing for the customer. MS is laughing all the way to the bank. This isn't DRM or anything even "Convenient", instead its give me your money...ill collect interest on it and keep the interest for myself. Very smart on MS part. I won't be falling for it. I prefer to buy my music where i want to, listen to it on what I want to and not have to convert my money into something that I can't get back easily.
- plbland, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Part of me thinks the idea of a global currency is actually quite clever, so no matter what country/region Microsoft is advertising/selling the price will always be the 'same'.
In reality, currency exchange is a pain in the ass! - Petrarch1603, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8all your points are belong to microsoft
- mt066, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I think it's prety convienient that the denominations you can purchase do not coincide with the cost of the songs, so there will always be some left over points.
- ZeroMP, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Hey jerkoff you can still buy in bulk and not make up a silly point system.
Just call them dollars and not points so people can instantly see how much they are spending on things. It's not that difficult of a concept.
1) Points are not necessary on Xbox Live
2) Points are not necessary on Zune
How can people be using the fact that they are the SAME points both places as an argument for their existence? Use dollars, the last time I checked that was still the unit of currency here in the US. - LegacyCode, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8How many times is this false statement going to be repeated? Granted, Apple only recently started selling a multi-button mouse, but their OS has supported right-clicks, contextual menus, etc for what, a decade now.
If you are going to bash Apple, at least pick a real problem that they still need to address. Their OS is not perfect by any means (nor is any other OS for that matter), but your arguments will carry more weight if they are valid and stay on topic.
I take Apple seriously because they look for the easiest, seamless way to provide an experience to the end user. Sure, they could do points, it may save them $$ in CC transaction fees. They could have variable pricing. They could support lots of devices. They could give you endless amounts of options, checkboxes, settings, etc...the list goes on...but there is something to be said for clicking one button, knowing exactly and immediately how much money you spent, and having that show up on your device, ready to play, no worries, no hassle. - Microdot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9holy ***** batman!
long live the ipod/itunes. - Qwfwq, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Could this have anything to do with the out-of-USA markets?
All markets would have the songs priced the same in points, with different conversion rates then between the points and local currency - don't know if this makes any sense. Also I notice that with the current currency rates 1 point should be roughly 1 euro. - totorototoro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@mt066,
Convenient for Microsoft, you mean? - zip22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6you are correct, but as the article states, with the zune marketplace you have to use giftcards. with the itunes system, even with a giftcard you can completely empty your account by spending the remander of a giftcard and charging the difference to a credit card. with the zune market, the only time you would have an empty account would be if you rbought exactly 400 songs.
- superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@Garage81: That is more probably Digg accidentally not attaching his comment to the correct thread.
The whole "@user" convention arose because you want to reply to a sub-thread but you can only reply to the primary poster and otherwise it can get confusing which response you are in turn responding to. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I was actually optimistic that the Zune would challenge the iPod before I heard about this "MS Points" thing. Consumers are smarter than people give them credit for -- everyone knows "points" is just a nice way of disguising the real cost. Like this article says, it just doesn't have mass appeal. It'll be big with the hardcore Xbox 360 users I suppose but I don't see my mom logging onto Microsoft's site to buy "Ms Points" so she can buy music.
- Quix, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@ carapi: you confuse "being afraid of" with "being amused by."
I love how all the diehard Microsoft apologists equate criticism of the Zune with fear.
This stupid "purchase with points with no logical equivalent value" shows just how out of touch Microsoft is with the home consumer. They always have been, they always will be. MS simply can't bulldoze its way into the consumer space with the power of its OS/Office monopoly, but they still operate with the misguided mentality that they can.
"The Freedom to Innovate" indeed.
Nothing to fear here. - DelMonte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6flag564 said: "Dude, grow up."
Two hours later, in another digg thread, flag564 posted this wonderfully mature comment: "And the Astrosmash/Quix ambiguously gay ipod duo checks in."
Who needs to grow up here? - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Why would iPod worshipers complain about the iPod?
It seems like the "iPod worshipers" are a little more careful about what they type. -
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