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Windows Genuine Annoyance?

pcworld.com — Privacy experts and PC users alike blast Microsoft's antipiracy tool

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  • PissedGodzilla, on 10/12/2007, -96/+32Listen, I truly think this is the best way for a company to stop piracy of its products. Sure it's gonna have glitches and speedbumps along the way, but it is the right thing to do. I know I'll be hated for saying that but it's the truth.
    • evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -13/+86Hooray! Treating your customers like they're all criminals is the Right Thing[tm] to do!
    • Mtap, on 10/12/2007, -46/+11You are completely right. Too much piracy can lead to the products prices being higher for the people who dont want to pirate.
    • trunkster, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42Anyone who has pirate copy of XP right now is not going to buy a legit copy. They are going to wait for Vista to come out. Microsoft should have started this WGA check years ago.
    • Scruffydan, on 10/12/2007, -9/+56MS has to realize that useres running pirated versions of windows is better for them than useres running linux or OSX.
    • aniruddha23, on 10/12/2007, -19/+8Surely people will not buy legit copies right away. But slowly they will know that its too much of an annoyance to keep these things away and quite a few of em might actually end up buying legit.
    • postalservice14, on 10/12/2007, -30/+9If you are running a legit copy anyway, is it really an annoyance?
    • Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33I've never been able to justify paying hundreds of dollars for an OS. My computers have always come with Windows pre-installed, but if they didn't, I wouldn't be using Windows. Maybe lowering the price to something more reasonable would be the first step towards slowing piracy.
    • BlackNute, on 10/12/2007, -4/+45"Anyone who has pirate copy of XP right now is not going to buy a legit copy. They are going to wait for Vista to come out."

      No, we've already torrented it.
    • cakestick, on 10/12/2007, -21/+11Battered internet cliche.. positive digg.
      Rational statement about how piracy drives prices up.. negative digg. Yeah, that makes sense..

      Your younger siblings, sons, daughters, grandparents, mommies.. may they all turn on automatic updates without your knowledge! Avast ye, pirates! :-P
    • apotropaic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15"I know I'll be hated for saying that but it's the truth."

      Yes you will be and no its not.
    • kimos, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12@cakestick:
      That's EXACTLY what's happening to me!
      I don't really use Windows anymore so I haven't been keeping up with their automatic WGA push. But all of a suddent I get all these emails from friends/family saying something about fraud on their computer. Now I've got all these computers I've built over the years and they've all got the same pirated version of XP installed on them...

      Triage time. This has turned into a great way to say... "Have you hear of Ubuntu?" or "It's probably time that you buy a Mac."
    • gothsquirrel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4 @postalservice14 Yes it is. I run a legit copy at home and i hate having to start up windows update a few times to download patched in IE or Windows Media Player, or other fixes for windows. They just wasted at least 5 minutes of every ones time with their genuine advantage crap.
    • crawfishsoul, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21@postalservice
      "If you are running a legit copy anyway, is it really an annoyance?"

      I just downloaded and installed IE7 Beta 3 from Firefox, I had to first validate my legit copy of Window's by downloading their WGA checker, then I was allowed to download, then during the actual install I had to allow the installer to check my copy of Window's again.

      Yeah, it's annoying.
    • eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8@kimos
      Explain to them that it's a trojan that steals their personal data - that's why they need to move to Linux. It's not far from the truth with WGA "phoning home."
    • joeshlub, on 10/12/2007, -13/+5I'm so stick of hearing about this. I got tired of it after the first week, and since then it's just been "OMG microsoft is t3h sux0rs" on the front page time and time again. We know microsoft makes crappy software. Move on.
    • kimos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@eclectro:
      Hah... Yeah. Well they know what it is. When I build a computer I give them their options and let them know. Inevitably they pick the pirated-Windows option. But now, it's way easier to convince them into something better. They can stick with free and get Linux, pay for Mac and get a newer/better computer, or pay for XP and get... no improvement...

      Two hundred bucks is a hard sell for no-change. :P
    • PowerCow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7http://windowsupdate.62nds.com a decent alternative to the wga challenged.
      works in firefox.
    • CosmicJustice, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5You're getting Dugg into the basement by a bunch of children who seldom pay for anything. Which is why it doesn't matter what they think about it. Activation hasn't cut into sales of Windows or Office because if you pay for the software you don't mind activating it and it works 99.999999% of the time.
    • Skullpop, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Meh.. In my experience I find that it's annoying if you're a legit user and being checked every 5 seconds if you are actually legit. It's much better if you pirate your copy of windows and patch XP up so that WGA is destroyed and removed from your computer.

      -It's what I do!
    • Escamillo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"Hooray! Treating your customers like they're all criminals is the Right Thing[tm] to do!"
      ------
      I remember an article on digg regarding Vista, and 90% of the digg posters boasted about how they pirated XP. So it's hypocritical for digg posters to complain about WGA, when WGA wouldn't exist if so many of you guys didn't pirate (or condone piracy) so much.
    • bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think the sinful part of it is that when I bought XP, I bought an operating system not a nanny, and since then the original agreement we entered into has changed - I've gradually owned less and less of it.

      The original agreement has changed so much its almost like that hundred bucks I loaned to by friend afterwhich the conditions changed so much I've barely seen a 6 pack of beer for it.

      I expect more from the company I rely on for my livelyhood.
    • cedrick, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3come on man. piraring windoze is OK!!!! not like Bill Gates needs the money or anything. imagine what his trust fund is like...
    • MechaFenris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If that were the only goal of WGA, that'd be great for Microsoft... catch those pesky pirates... (whatever.) But this is not the last component of Microsoft's "ongoing war on piracy". This is yet another component in the long line of "features" that will turn their OS into a subscription-based setup. Let's look at some things to see where this is going...

      Windows Update. As of Win 98, Microsoft started the "new" feature of a component in Windows to download updates from their website. Early on, you could still clamor for CD packs of the rolled up patches, and certain places had standalone patches available, so that when you reinstalled your OS, you could get the patches quickly. By Windows XP, Update has become the defacto standard for getting patches. There is no separate place to download old patches when you reinstall. The update CDs are older and usually consist of a huge service pack's worth of fixes, and you even have to get more updates from their server because the mastering date on the CD is months before a round of critical updates appear. In and of itself, this is simply an annoyance, but taken with the context of other offerings and the recent announcement of possible "testing" of subscription models w/r/t Office (I forget where), you begin to see a strange pattern...

      Now that we have WGA (another component of "update")... it's sole purpose is to check the legitimacy of your Windows license code. Well, that's the missing component to check to see when your subscription expires at Update time. And anyone who thinks that WGA in a later form (perhaps on Vista) could not actually shut off your system for failure to update your subscription is forgetting the one common thread here... Microsoft is not making as much as they used to on their OS and Office. What's the best way to sustain it? Subscriptions. Perhaps it'll be with business-class licenses first... perhaps it'll debut in South America or Europe first... but I have a feeling it's coming.

      I don't actually know how much of an uproar this will create, but it should be interesting to watch. Any OS that requires a yearly, monthly, daily, weekly or hourly fee from me to be used will not be used by me. It's my personal choice. YMMV, so don't digg me down because I sound like a curmudgeon. heheheh. ;)
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Unless you play games, or do very specialized Office work, there is no reason to run Windows. Period.

      Linux is cheaper, runs on older hardware, OS X is better and runs most mainstream apps.

      People want to own the latest, flashiest stuff, but in the computer world newest and flashiest doesn't mean better.

      Think about what you use your PC for. How much of that is Windows, and how much of it is applications, and how much of it is online services.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2[quote]http://windowsupdate.62nds.com a decent alternative to the wga challenged.
      works in firefox.[/quote]

      Unless you plan on installing IE7, which comes with WGA.
  • flash200, on 10/12/2007, -7/+39Not only it is an inconvenience and a hassle, but it treats all customers like criminals. When you pay for a product, and use it legitimately, and have to receive frequent permission to continue using it, and have to hope that if you upgrade your computer it'll still work, that's like a slap in the face.

    Sure they have the right to protect their products however they want. And they also have the right to discourage people from using their products. This accomplishes both.
    • Lanser84, on 10/12/2007, -15/+12I agree with your sentiment from one perspective...it is unfortunate and annoying to constantly have to prove your honesty. However, this inconvenience isn't placed on us by Microsoft...but by those engaged in piracy. Microsoft is doing their best to protect their intellectual property rights - they have every right to do so.

      Like you said, we each have to decide if the added inconvenience is worth it to us or if we should go to another OS (also very inconvenient).
    • Odiwan, on 10/12/2007, -16/+10Bollocks. This happens every day when you use your cell phone, yet nobody complains that their cell phone is checking the validity and/or legitimacy of their phone serial number or sim card before letting them use the cell phone...
    • dashifen, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Plus, I've seem a lot of false positives over the past few weeks. My laptop is apparently not genuine. I haven't done anything to it except partition the hard drive since I purchased it. I'm not sure why partitioning the hard drive would have suddenly caused it to be flagged as not genuine, but apparently it did. RemoveWGA.exe did the trick for me, though, but I'd still like to know why it happened. A similar experience happened to my wife's machine and my in laws. All three machines were purchased within the last two years from three different stores, one of which is Dell. Sounds like there's a few wrinkles to be ironed out .....
    • Whitey04, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Yes they are, I do.

      It isn't that the phone validates its number (right to use the service). But phone comanies increasingly want COMPLETE control of your phone (not just your service). What you can download and how, what software you have, what firmware you run and to "update" these things when they see fit.

      So. Yes, people do complain about their phones calling home.
    • Zonkzor, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Odiwan: Your cell phone is a subscription service. Windows is a product that you buy and (supposably) own.
    • CaptUnderpants, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5Also, anyone who works in a secure building is asked to provide identification every time they come through the door. Shouldn't I be outraged at this too?
    • juheimbu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@odiwan: The big difference is that I have to connect to the cell phone network in order to use the cell phone. I OWN my copy of Windows. I run it on MY computer. I registered it when I installed it. It's not suddenly going to become a pirated copy because they don't check on it every day. It's the same as it was the day I got it.
    • javierror, on 10/12/2007, -11/+10@zonkzor

      "Supposably" is not a word! It's supposedly. Don't mean to be rude, but I hate it when people mispell/mispronounce common words to the point where it becomes common to do so. I'd say "supposably" is my biggest pet peeve word.

      ok i'll stop.
    • javajawa, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@javierror

      If you're going to become the spelling police, at least have the decency to spell your own "mispell"ings correctly.
    • aristotle1990, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1"Not only it is an inconvenience and a hassle, but it treats all customers like criminals. When you pay for a product, and use it legitimately, and have to receive frequent permission to continue using it, and have to hope that if you upgrade your computer it'll still work, that's like a slap in the face."

      *****. That's like saying that baggage checks at an airport treat passengers like terrorists. Microsoft has an entirely legitimate right to protect people from stealing its products. Besides, you don't even have to turn the Automatic Updates service on. Microsoft is nice enough as it is to make the WGA validation optional.
    • Escamillo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I agree.
      I'm also pissed that I have to present a ticket when boarding a plane, entering a movie theater, entering a baseball stadium, etc. I'm sick of the scanners located at the entrance/exits of retail stores. I'm sick of Apple DRM'ing iTMS songs. I'm tired of being treated like a criminal at every turn!!
  • Veamon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Bleh, who cares, give it a week and some 14 year old who lives on IRC will have it cracked.
    • aniruddha23, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30It was cracked the next day after it started rolling out.
    • spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You can't turn off the WGA validator plugin in IE anymore.
    • wgasaviour, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7linky for whoever needs to get rid of wga for good

      http://rapidshare.de/files/27248615/kb905474_1.5.540.0.zip.html
    • hifiDesign, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Any credence given to the fact that someone might *need* multiple copies of XP running on their machine (what, am I supposed to buy it three times for one damned machine?).

      I'm a mac user, running Boot Camp so I can use HL2, 3D Studio Max, etc. I use two Parallels images for web design — one to verify sites in IE 6 and the other to verify in IE 7 beta 3 (which still sucks - yeah, mod me down...)

      Any any rate, why should I *have* to hack my registry like a pirate just to make my Parallels machines authorize (it tricks WGA in case you were wondering). Bottom line: I own XP, and as long as it's on one machine, I should be able to have 50,000 iterations of it for my own purposes. Greedy M$, spyware making, baby killing bastards...
    • flash200, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@hifiDesign
      As long as it's not being used on more than one computer at any given time, I think that should be allowed as a fair use. It's a sped-up version of repeatedly uninstalling it and installing it (possibly onto a different computer), which _is_ allowed.

      Also, I think there should be more fair-use leeway when software isn't being used for commercial purposes.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0So, how does WGA deprive people of any of the things you cite?
    • SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The easiest way to avoid Genuine Advantage Notifications is to never install it to begin with. If you have installed it recently, like in the past few days, a system restore from before you installed it will get rid of it for you. If it has been a while, there are instructions online (from microsoft) on how to remove it. I haven't tried this, but it should work.
    • bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There are cracks for WGA (wgaremove i think its called)

      but the easier way about it is to search google for "AutoPatcher" which has downloads for all the important patches which you can (optionally) install, and doesn't include WGA.

      It even has updates listed such as "Turn off the annoying "Shortcut to" text when creating shortcuts". God send.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2[quote]You can't turn off the WGA validator plugin in IE anymore.[/quote]

      That's not the crack they are speaking of.
    • neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@hifiDesign: I'd dig you down for spelling it "M$", but baby-killing? =D digg++!
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@flash2000

      "It's a sped-up version of repeatedly uninstalling it and installing it (possibly onto a different computer), which _is_ allowed."

      As long as it isn't the OEM verison (that comes pre-installed on new PCs) then that is allowed. If it's OEM though, it's tough *****.
  • twoheadedboy00, on 10/12/2007, -15/+5I'm with PissedGodzilla on this, even though I pirated things before. On the aggregate level, if too many people pirate, then it puts downward pressure on innovation. Yes yes yes Open Source, but hey, the best minds go where the money is, and right now that is in proprietary API environments. Anyways, I ***** hate WGA, and it froze my computer, and I hate Microsoft, but they have a right to protect their product just like anyone else.

    But I like my privacy, so eat a big one, Billy Gates.
    • oreo2123, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3"On the aggregate level"...do we have an economist in the house?

      But you have a solid point here...Companies, no matter how hated (and in this case extremely hated), do have the right to protect their investments from being stolen, by any means that they find works from thier business stand point.
    • plncrzy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5 "but hey, the best minds go where the money is,"

      I'm sorry, but I can't possibly let that comment go by.

      Where's the money? Companies like Microsoft? How can the same place where the "best minds" go, be the place that produces stuff that just about the entire community considers broken, "public beta", "permanent beta", "trialware (maybe it works, maybe not! try it!)", etc.?

      Personally I see FAR more inventive, well-designed, better-executed, and all around better stuff coming from many of the open source projects out there. I beg to differ on your "best minds" comment.
    • Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1oreo, I disagree.
    • josegutz, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1You have to agree with Oreo... At least William is keeping all the talent here in the states instead of getting India and Pakistan involved.

      NAFTA you bitch....
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0"...just about the entire community..."

      Which community is that?
    • plncrzy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@wistar
      ""...just about the entire community..."

      Which community is that?"

      Um, look around. I think you'll see 'em.
    • flash200, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Companies shouldn't be allowed to protect their products in a manner that deprives others of fundamental freedoms (freedom of speech, fair use, unrestricted use).


    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1So, how does WGA deprive people of any of the things you cite? And since when is unrestricted use of a property a fundamental freedom?
    • r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"And since when is unrestricted use of a property a fundamental freedom?"

      Also, as an aside, if you check the EULA you'll find that Windows XP isn't actually your property either. Only the CD it came on belongs to you, the OS itself will always remain the property of Microsoft.
    • flash200, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2oreo2123: "Companies [...] have the right to protect their investments from being stolen, by any means that they find works from thier business stand point."

      For info on how freedom of speech, fair use, and unrestricted use relate to copy-protection mechanisms, see the following article by Lawrence Lessig:
      http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/policy/2002/08/15/lessig.html
  • jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The funniest part of the whole WGA annoyance is that a large amount of the people who bought XP when it first launched seem to be reporting the problems. This really makes me want to be an early adopter of Vista, let me tell you how much I would enjoy spending $400 on something that will cause me headaches for years to come.
    • spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The only thing worse than Microsoft betas is Microsoft 1.0s. Don't buy Vista until at least 3 months after release.
    • HalBSure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wait for the Vista ME version.
    • FinishdLawSkool, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1At best Vista seems like XP Pro SP3 more than anything else...
  • Bluntzilla, on 10/12/2007, -17/+9Just another reason I installed kubuntu...
    • TheZorch, on 10/12/2007, -15/+3No, just another reason to buy a Mac.
    • plncrzy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@TheZorch

      ... if you can afford to do that. And assuming you like the Mac OSX. Contrary to fanboy accolades, not EVERYONE thinks Mac OSX is the ultimate operating system.

      Let's not forget a rather important benefit of Kubuntu (or whatever flavor... I'm just using the example that was given) -- it runs on the same PC that the [possibly pirated] version of Windows used to run on. And, the OS is free. Net cost: $0.

      Mac OSX only runs on Mac hardware. Net cost: a lot more than $0. Maybe if Apple started selling OSX to run on all PCs... hell I'd pay $100 for it. But I'm not about to go out and buy a new damn computer just to use it. Personally I like the flexibility of being able to open up my PC and upgrade parts whenever I feel it's time... rather than be limited to a couple of select "upgrades" for the Mac, and then have to buy a whole new computer again in a few years.
  • NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -15/+4I have a crazy idea... this is gonna sound absolutely ridiculous but bear with me.

    If you BUY; as in purchase the product, it will stop! It's like a crack that costs a bit of money.

    Yea I know I know, I sound like some sort of software nazi; buying programs, AS IF!
    • virmundi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6China needs to buy the products. Most people in the USA a legit copy. There aren't really enough nerds/geeks out there to hurt MS
    • aniruddha23, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0post when you have come back to your senses. Go back to bed for now.
    • r00tus3r, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3I have a crazy idea ... RTFA!!!
    • kweeket, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Did you read any of the previous comments? Did you RTFA? I quote:
      "Other reports circulating through the Internet cited instances in which WGA had sent repeated piracy pop-ups to people who owned legitimate copies of Windows."

      The problem here is that sometimes WGA incorrectly identifies purchased, perfectly legitimate copies of Windows as illegitimate. That's annoying.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yes, at first they didn't believe it, until a few notable pro-MS reviewers and other professionals with legit copies got the WGA errors.

      There is no denying that there are instances when WGA screws up and puts you on the terrorist list.
  • virmundi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I just declined the install. So far nothing seems to have happened
    • aniruddha23, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7you wont be recieveing any further updates unless its installed.
    • NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@aniruddha23 -
      Not true. I turned it down months ago and I still get updates. Ever since WGA, I don't INSTALL them... Lord knows what's behind those abstract security update numbers...
    • dashifen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7If you don't install or get flagged as a false positive, you can get the updates you need from www.autopatcher.com.
    • Scruffydan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I have never installed it. The only issue is that windows update no longer works (you can still get critical updates though allerts in the systray, and I can't download new ms software like IE7 and Media player 11.

      no big deal
    • DarkLaughingMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Big deal if you can't get the updates with IE or the Microsoft site. It's not like there are other methods and sites that have the updates..

      Wait a minute... >.>
    • reevolutn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0yea you have a choice. on the automatic updates list it clearly states which update your about to download is going to do for your computer, just uncheck the ones you dont want...

      for all of you who just click "download all" or whatever, you shoulda read instead of blindly clicking, tsk tsk

      either way, you can remove it easy enough
  • aniruddha23, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5This shouldnt even considered an issue. Its their product they will protect it the way theu have to. Dont like it?? move on then. just stop whining.
  • Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well, i stand on the fence that realistically, we all knew something like this was happening so why are so many people complaining? This kind of stuff happens all the time. Look at other examples: People started speeding in there cars, which most of the time is ok, but then people started getting into accidents and they invented new laws for that, and sometimes legit people get pulled over for it. Same as the new Red light camera's, people started thinking they can just go right through red lights, so they put these camera's on the light, which also produce a fair number of false possitives.

    Realistically, if you are using a legal version of Windows, why worry, if it causes problems, follow there procedure for reporting it. If you are using an illegal version, then you are part of the crowd that force microsoft into going this route. Either way i'm glad they implemented this into Vista towards the end of it's life cycle, as version 2.0 of wga will come with Windows Vista.

    And seriously, if you ahve that much trouble with this, switch to linux, it's a perfectly good alternative if you don't want to pay for Windows, or hate the company. No need to bad mouth the product, just don't use it if you don't like it.
    • nubalance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Your OS should not be required to phone home. I've installed OSX "critical updates" in the past that have broken things that I used every day. Now I don't use OSX.

      As the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't (offer) to fix it"

      People shouldn't repeatedly be interrupted/punished for having a Windows OS that's connected to the Internet.
    • juheimbu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You're comparing apples to oranges. On one hand, you have a real public health and safety issue. Those traffic laws help save lives and prevent serious injuries. They're not a magic bullet, but they do help. On the other hand, you have a business entity protecting its intellectual property.

      I'm not concerned about WGA causing me any system problems. I'm just put out because thee's this new software that phones home periodically. I have no idea what it's sending. MS says it's just the product key, but they're track record certainly leaves that assertion open to question. They didn't even admit that it was phoning home until someone exposed that fact publicly.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Their (MS's) track record consists of what offenses in this area? Have you examples of privacy invasion perpetrated by MS where they collect personal information? I'm curious about this as I haven't ever been aware that MS is doing or has done anything that risks someone's privacy.
  • MattH, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7http://antiwpa.org.ru/ have fun
    • spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Wow, a Russian website speaking out against American copy protection! I never thought I'd see the day!
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@spyrochaete

      How do you feel about Starforce?
  • trollick, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0Just buy a tinfoil hat and stop bitching. Nobody except a few MS hating cry babies seems to have any problems.
  • spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I have a legit copy of WinXP Pro so I haven't had any problems with WGA. However, the activation system really pisses me off.

    I've upgraded my PC a few times since I first activated Windows. When I upgrade (as major as a mobo or as minor as a video card) this rude ultimatum pops up in a cute little speech bubble saying I have 3 days to reactivate Windows before my OS is bricked. So I click the bubble and try the automated authentication tool.

    No dice. It fails.

    I call the phone number presented to me on the screen and go through the incredible ordeal of vocally dictating a 48-digit key in sextets.

    FAILS.

    So it connects me to someone quasi-coherent in (or at least from) India who asks me to repeat the first 12 digits. She (all women so far) asks whether this is my first time installing Windows and why I am reinstalling. Then she reads out ANOTHER 48-digit key that I type into the confirmation dialog. I hit Finish and it's done.

    When I did a major upgrade last week I installed WinXP and the activation bubble said I had 30 days to activate. So I did and it disappeared. Then I ran Windows Update which installed a zillion security fixes, rebooted, and was greeted with that rude bubble saying I now had 3 days to activate AGAIN!

    I find this friggin insulting. I bought it. Let me use the damn software. I'm sick and tired of speaking to call centre lackeys instead of playing Half Life.

    Microsoft, go ahead and protect your software but stop being so suspicious of your legit customers. Pirated copies of XP are WAY more convenient to use than legit copies. I'll keep that in mind when Vista comes out.
    • dunezone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Just a side note on that vocal confirmation for activating windows, you can just type the numbers in instead of saying them. Also theres a way to bypass this and go straight to a person I think.
    • MattH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5this I why I prefer to use AntiWPA istead of having to jump thru Microsofts hoops .
    • Reno582, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well to Microsoft, New Motherboard = New Computer
    • dunezone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1In the business world I dont see it as good practice to break the anti-piracy protection. I mean you can, and sometimes legal if you own it(I think), but still not going to look good if you do get an audit.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0"...incredible ordeal of vocally dictating a 48-digit key in sextets."

      Wow, what a hardship. If you were walking up some stairs at the same time it'd likely kill you.

      Haven't dealt with, say, Autodesk or Alias, have you?
  • mantlepro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Great... even more pop-ups and bugs for Windows users. Glad I switched a long time ago to more sane operating systems.
  • jgjay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0What exactly is a "privacy expert"? How do you become an expert on privacy? o_O
    • juheimbu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I could tell you...but it's private.
  • damonic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This is why I use an OS other than Windows.
  • zeptobyte, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I don't really see anything wrong with it except for the false positives. It's the same argument people use for wiretapping, only it's better in this case. "If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about?" When it comes to wiretapping, you still have plenty to worry about. You don't know how that power may be used. But with a computer program, you can observe exactly when and what it's doing.

    If they can fix it, so it doesn't bother legitimate users, I won't really have any problems against it. I do like the idea, in principle. If someone's using a pirated copy, don't let them do the "fun" things with it. That's somewhat an incentive to buy it, but still lets people use it.
    • mousky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For starters, the person that is using a pirated copy will unlikely buy a legal copy.

      Second, it's one thing to have something like WGA when you buy Windows or when you buy a new computer with Windows pre-installed. It's another thing to verify software, two, three or more years after owning it.

      Thrid, the purpose of Windows Update was for to issues patches for bugs and security issues. What does WGA have to do with either?

      Fourth, take your "If you're not doing anything wrong, what do you have to worry about" statement and shove it up where the sun don't shine. That is no reason for the government or a company to monitor you or to make sure your software is legit.

      Fifth, if Microsoft can get away with it, then every other software publisher will do the same thing. Do you want each and every piece of software calling home every now and then?
  • Kdog22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm not one to condone pirating,, but there's no reason for this. So there's pirates out there , but there's millions more that aren't.. And I'm pretty sure MS is still going make another gazillion or so dollars in their future without having the damn WGA.
  • Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Ok, how does everyone have problems here? I have WGA installed perfectly fine on 5 computers, all of which verified just fine. I 2 of them manually, and the others automatically, and i've never once seen a pop-up saying that i need to verify or nothing. If it does it in the background, so be it, but it's never caused a problem for me.

    Maybe Digg should have a WGA policy on Microsoft articles. If you are not running a legal version of windows, you can't post a comment on the articles. Maybe that would help filter out some of the people that just come here to rant about how they hate Microsoft.
    • DarkLaughingMan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You really don't understand the concept of "just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it happens to others" do you?

      In the end the only people thing will really wind up hurting is the userbase of Windows that actually bought it (or got it pre-installed). Which is the irony of this whole situation. To protect their OS they use an anti-pirating checking method. Which isn't 100% effective (granted nothing really is) but it does more damage to the people with legit versions then it does to the people with the pirated versions.
    • Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Of course if you haven't had an issue on your machines it cannot possibly be the case that others are.

      And I don't appreciate your point that I shouldn't be allowed to post on Digg because I choose to use an OS other than Windows. Perhaps a minimum age requirement before posting would work better...
    • Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually, i meant that as a smart ass comment because there are way to many linux users that get on here and do nothing but bad mouth Microsoft and it gets really annoying :-) Age restriction would be fine, if you mean more maturity level rather then simple age. I've seen 8 year olds more open minded them some posters i've seen on digg, which sadly is very unfortunate. truth of the matter is, if you don't like it, don't use it. I've had good experiences, i know a lot of people haven't, and i accept that, but still, how many people might have a problem with this, but when they investigate find out that it's nothing to do with them that the people they got it from were the ones that lied. Personally, i'd be very pissed off if i found out i got a computer that had an illegal version of windows installed after i just paid the extra like 200$ for it.

      I applaud microsoft for this effort, and hopefully once Vista roles out this system will be well oiled and helping to filter out far more illegal Copies. And who knows, if this works out, and people start buying a lot more legal versions of Windows, who knows, maybe the price of windows itself will actually come down because we won't have to pay for all the people who are illegally using it. Probably not, but hey, i've seen stranger things happen (ex: Finally an upgrade to IE 7)
    • neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Archer.. there's foaming rabid zealots on all sides. it's DIGG.

      Personally I'm tired of the raving Windows fanboys posting on non-Windows related articles, proclaiming LOLROFL U CANT PLAY GAMES, UR OS SUX or pulling ***** "market share" stats out of their asses. But what can you do, it's Digg, it's The Internet, the tubes are clogged full of people like these.

      I'm not installing WGA on my machine. If this means I can't use windows update anymore, well so be it. That machine is my Morrowind-and-Oblivion--maybe-Bioshock-when-it-arrives machine. Maybe I'll try one of the 'alternative' patching sites, they sound like they actually do the job they're supposed to. Maybe I'll just keep it firewalled and not touch IE. Everything else, I do on my other, nicer OS anyway.
  • Poco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Come on people - this isn't really about piracy. I don't like to see piracy more than anyone else, but this is a bit like music DRM, it doesn't stop real piracy, it just prevents normal users from doing perfectly normal things.

    WGA does nothing to stop real pirates from making copies of windows and copies of whatever programs are protected by WGA (by removing that protection). It only impacts casual users and casual copiers, so all they really needed to do was enough to prevent casual copying. This is over the top.
    • Waterrat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2 I think the same thing...I suspect there is another reason for WGA,one they are not talking about.
  • eTron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7WGA Sucks... that is all! :)
  • hutectro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is the biggest reason why i use linux-- I'm so tired of Bill Gates coming to my house
    and seeing if I'm using legit copy windows xp .Suse linux is getting better with time before
    you know it.
    It will damn good operating system ranking right up their with windows.
  • ReXorcist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5***** Microsoft, I have a legit copy of an OEM version of XP, right after I installed the SP2 update it said "your serial is invalid please enter a new one as you may have mistyped it"...I even called MS and they couldn't even help me even after giving me new serials. WGA is 100% pure *****, I have to crack it to update anything and my copy is legal. It's just a sad and pointless process.
    • Escamillo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What makes you think your "OEM copy" is "legit"? Where'd you get it? Many retail stores are selling computers with pirated copies of XP so they save money (and don't pass the savings to the customer, so the customer pays for an OEM XP that's illegit). Sounds like you got played by whoever sold you the computer.
    • neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sounds more like he got played by whoever developed that OS.
  • tao52nyc, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1I don't know why anyone should be bitching about this. Microsoft has a virtual monopoly on desktop operating systems. You gave them that monopoly by buying their stuff. It is only natural they should want to protect that particular cash cow so they can hang onto their dominant position as long as possible. Once people have invested large amounts of capital, and just as importantly, themselves into finally mastering that OS (taking thousands of hours of work and frustration), they are loathe to want to go through that again, regardless of the assurances of the Mac/Linux crowd (once bitten, etc. etc.).

    Microsoft is going to take Genuine Advantage of its user's reluctance to change out to something else, and is supremely confident those users will accept anything Redmond sees fit to hand them. I am in complete agreement with those who say if you don't like WGA, stop using Microsoft products. But most of you know you won't - you'll bitch and gripe, but in the end you'll swallow it whole - just like New York smokers who are content to stand outside their favorite bar, shivering in the dead of winter, rather than work up the guts to stand up to The Man.
    • mulling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Um, sorry, but no.

      Microsoft has an *actual* monopoly, not a virtual one. There's a difference. It got it not because everyone chose its OS over all others, but because it used illegal business tactics to force OEMs to only offer Windows.

      Google has a *virtual* monopoly because it offers the best search, at least in the opinion of most internet users. Every Google user could switch to Yahoo! with a few mouse clicks, and Google would evaporate. Meanwhile Windows users are often forced to use the OS because of circumstances beyond their control, and vast numbers would happily switch if it were feasible.

      MS would not be in the position they're in today if they had been forced to use fair business tactics. Plain and simple. They have never had the best product or the best price. They're continuing to abuse their monopoly status to enter new markets with an unfair advantage (Pop quiz: how much money has MS burned on the XBox to date? Answer: more than everyone on this thread will earn in their lifetimes, combined...and they're still losing money with each XBox sale.) They can afford to do this because they have a cash cow monopoly that they got through strongarm tactics with OEMs.
  • rationalicthus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Ever go to an amusement park with a season pass? You're required to show it every time you entered the park? If the park knew that everyone entering was perfectly honest, this would not be necessary.

    Same with Windoze. We know people are cheating, and as such M$ has a viable and reasonable interest in ensuring that they are being paid for what they produce. The fact that they occasionally check your "ticket" ought not to be so surprising.
    • dlawler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Other than juvenile ways of writing the names, I agree with you. All of this is over a FREE update service that Microsoft provides.

      Clearly there are hacked versions out there, which many people have admitted to in the comments for this article, yet somehow they are indignant, that Microsoft won't provide free updates to them? What do you people do for a living? Do you just put a jar on your desk and hope someone contributes? Most people want to be paid for their work, and take counter-measures to make sure that people don't steal from them. How many Security Experts are on here? You would be out of a job if people didn't try to protect what is theirs! Yet if the "Great Satan from Redmond" does it, you go through the roof.

      Commence with the digging-down. So predictable.
  • SM19, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well, this is giving more incentive not to trust certain ideas about Micorosft anymore. I mean, do you?( the ol "youre privacy is important to us").

    However at the same time I'm not sure what the fuss is about. When WGA phones home, world war 3 ain't gonna break out, is it? WHAT exactly ''COULD'' happen other than finding out my xp is no legit? Explain please.



    • Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You could lose substantial sums of money as your business comes to a WGA false positive induced stand-still.

      Course, if all YOU do with computers is play games and surf pron, this WGA thing won't matter much to you. You may not even see what the problem is.
  • SM19, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well, this is giving more incentive not to trust certain ideas about Micorosft anymore. I mean, do you?( the ol "youre privacy is important to us").

    However at the same time I'm not sure what the fuss is about. When WGA phones home, world war 3 ain't gonna break out, is it? WHAT exactly ''COULD'' happen other than finding out my xp is no legit? Explain please.

    Surely there is more to it than legal troubles. I mean, if I downloaded XP from third-party site I don't care if XP phones home BECAUSE, that is something the business implemented to actually find out who's doing what, right? Or is there something more sinister surrounding the whole issue. Are they selling my personal details to devil worhsippers and not just checking whether my copy of Windows is legitimate?





    • ungabunga, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Here is a link to get the removal tool for that annoying WGA alert. We have legit copies of XP and it happend to us. Dont know why. Anyways I put the file on our site to help out the rest of you guys aswell. so enjoy www.el-hombre.net/index.php Its the very first post on the top.
  • badbox, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0For ***** sake, none of microsoft's losses concerns any of you, so take your "if you're legit then you have nothing to worry about" responses and ***** off.

    I hate moral crusaders that have nothing to do but spout off how others are doing, in their own *opinion*, wrong things. If it helps you sleep better at night knowing you're "legit", then you have ego issues.

    If you look down on others who pirate when it doesn't affect you, you also have issues.

    Crack WPA, it's easy. End of hassle.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Huh? I feel the same way about amoral crusaders. Are you sure you feel that way? People should just ignore criminals in the mistaken belief that it doesn't affect them?

      I'd sure be wary in doing business with you.
  • anchorman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I guess this makes Windows 2000 an upgrade from Windows XP.
  • mousky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2DRM hurts sales of software, CDs and DVDs. DRM punishes legit customers. The biggest farce about DRM is the R part. Rights. The media and software companies have transformed government granted monopolies (patents, copyrights and trademarks) into property rights. The government grants you a very limited privilege to POTENTIALLY earn some money from patents and copyrights. It was never meant to become a god given right to shaft people.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So, it's okay to ignore the law if you disagree with it?

      The R in DRM stands for the property rights assigned to you via a legally binding transaction. Yeah, most DRM is horrid in that it is a hassle and sometimes it fails to assign rights properly but, then, security in general is a hassle and innocents end up on the no-fly list. Society will come to terms with DRM and although it may never be seen as a good thing by those who are snared by it, I think it is a necessity in the same way that physical locks are a necessity in that it helps keep honest people honest.
    • flash200, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Another way to refer to it is "Digital Restrictions Management", which is a more-accurate description of DRM.

      It offers no value to customers, and causes them to lose rights that they used to have.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1That they used to have? When have people EVER had unrestricted rights to another's property? That you've had the ABILITY to circumvent the intent of the property owner does not mean you had the right to that circumvention.
    • neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It IS your property, you paid for it. It's not your copyright. There IS a difference.

      I can buy a book, it is my property, but I do not own the copyright on the text. I can read the book as many times as I want, I can read it to other people, I can take a particularly witty phrase from it and stick it on my email signatures, I can use it to prop up a table leg, I can read it at work, home, in bed, in the bath. I can even tear out the pages and rearrange them if I want; it's MY copy of the book.

      The moment I reprint the book and sell it, I'm breaking copyright. Everything else is within my rights.

      DRM is about managing my rights. Lessening them. I can't read that book anywhere but at home now. I can't read it aloud to someone else. I'm certainly not allowed to rearrange pages. If the publishing company goes bankrupt, the book will instantly evaporate in a cloud of demonic flame.
    • flash200, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@neko
      The book example is a good analogy. The rights you're referring to are fair use and unrestricted use, as well as freedom of speech. Those are the main freedoms that DRM is designed to restrict, in the interest of reducing the potential for piracy.

      "Potential for piracy" is the key phrase here. To prevent someone from having the potential to commit a crime, you basically have to put them permanently in chains and prevent them from coming into contact with any property or any other people. Otherwise the potential for committing a crime exists.

      Digtally speaking, this is what DRM and related legislation are trying to accomplish. The only way it can work is if people are prevented from having any control over how they use their computers, and how they share information with other people.
  • x40oz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yup thats slightly annoying, they are now using it for just about everything you do on their site now
  • jabbertrack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0what is the real problem here? 90% of people seem to hate MS for asking them to please buy their software and the other 10% are actually reasonable and just want to be seen as a valued customer when they pay for a product.

    I know I do. Some days I hate the hassle of being a law abiding software purchasing consumer, but I think most days I LOVE hearing about pirates having to go through even more hassle to get their programs to work because they are the people keeping prices high.
    • mousky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Do you really think that the pirates have to go through even more hassles? Really, stop and think about that one for a minute. When a user has a problem with a piece of software, dvd or cd, do you really think that at that moment they are saying to themselves "hmmm, this is a big hassle, but I'm sure happy that pirate has to go through these same hassles"? When I bought a legit DVD and inserted it into my DVD, only to find that it won't play because of copy protection, I didn't get any warm fuzzy feeling that it's a good thing that pirates have to go through the same thing. I was pissed. Really pissed.
    • jabbertrack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0maybe not, but your example doesn't have much to do with the topic even though I agree with that

      life has a lot of these types of things, it's hard to be a law abiding member of society... I'm not saying it should be... but what I'm saying is that in the software world it's especially hard to protect your material and software is actually still a very new thing (relative to society)

      my family has a lot of software developers... my father, for example, developes "My Calendar" and has to deal with piracy... and by deal with I mean get cheated because there is no way he could retain the kind of user-ship he does if he tried to make it harder for people stealing his hard work, in a way... I sort of applaud MS for trying

      I know it's probably wrong and I'm in the minority but I don't see a much better solution out there at the moment.
  • u16085, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@odiwan: The big difference is that I have to connect to the cell phone network in order to use the cell phone. I OWN my copy of Windows. I run it on MY computer. I registered it when I installed it. It's not suddenly going to become a pirated copy because they don't check on it every day. It's the same as it was the day I got it.


    Actually, you dont own the software, you are granted a license to use to use the software..

    read the fineprint.
  • jspalding, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2To be quite honest, I have a pirate copy of Windows as an extra OS. I'm quite happy to click "Get Genuine" then just close the browser window that opens. No real hassle. I doubt too many users are going to bother. Especially when they're faced with the option of an extra click at boot-time, or £60-70 odd.

    Oh and I'm not some 'let's pirate everything' person. I use OSS. I had a legit version pre-installed, it messed up, and the "repair disc" wanted to overwrite my media files partition.. hmm i think not. Also makes me annoyed at the fact I've paid for a version of Windows and yet didn't get an install disc.
  • Rjia2006, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0since i had a newer version of wga installed itself on my computer i cant remove it, does any one know if this has any coincidance with me not being able to burn cds, or my computer running alot slower? fi anyone knows please email me at rickjamesisamish@gmail.com


    nice job microsoft

    • jabbertrack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"since i had a newer version of wga installed itself on my computer i cant remove it, does any one know if this has any coincidance with me not being able to burn cds, or my computer running alot slower? fi anyone knows please email me at rickjamesisamish@gmail.com


      nice job microsoft"

      No it does not
  • moeq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The pirates really don't care much about WGA. One of them cracks it the day it comes out, the crack spreads around via the usual channels, and before you know it WGA is a useless pile of code as far as the pirate community is concerned. It's the poor little legit users who haven't got a clue how to tell WGA to take a flying leap have to put up with validation checks and whatnot, noty the pirates. The pirates are all running a crack that disables/circumvents WGA. Have been since before WGA was mandatory.
  • Diabolus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@trunkster
    "Anyone who has pirate copy of XP right now is not going to buy a legit copy. They are going to wait for Vista to come out. Microsoft should have started this WGA check years ago."

    this is just it, WGA on xp was the beta for what is going to be BUILT-IN vista.
    make ready for more annoyances. . . built-in DRM, WGA, and who knows what else.
  • Percybut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3WGA is just hilarious:

    My legal copy of Windows XP pro from my college (I own the CD-Key, I own the CD) cannot be activated!!! (it says someone else is using it, WTF, I am the 100% owner!!)

    This forces me into using a pirated copy of XP SP2 which does not even ask for a CD-KEY (of course no need to activate), and this version has been working incredibly great, including auto updates.

    I am so confused ....

    Also, I wonder whether what i am doing is legal, because I own a XP PRO CD-KEY and the pirated version does not even ask for a CD-KEY.

    Should Microsoft blame me for supporting piracy, or shall I blame Microsoft for selling my college a CD-Key that cannot be activated?
    • jabbertrack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I dealt with that, you can call the 1-800 number and get it fixed. I haven't been on the line for more than a few minutes every time.
    • LoneBannana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I believe the student version still needs you to "call home" to Microsoft (which is XP home)
      the Staff version is XP Pro, and asks for a "generic" key (the on-campus store basically cut strips of paper from a stack of xeroxed sheets).

      Course, this was back when XP was only one disk, and didn't come with the second disk with all the "updates".

      AND this is in texas... so... I dunno.
  • d03boy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1muBlinder
  • LoneBannana, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9045861006530293045
    Don't copy that floppy! Still true today as it was back then.... except for the floppy part.
  • lebe0024, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I bought 3 legitimate copies to replace the pirated versions I originally installed for friends' computers. I'd say it was effective in my case.
  • ungabunga, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Here is a link to get the removal tool for that annoying WGA alert. We have legit copies of XP and it happend to us. Dont know why. Anyways I put the file on our site to help out the rest of you guys aswell. so enjoy www.el-hombre.net/index.php Its the very first post on the top. It has been reported to work for a lot of people. Only very few that have the latest WGA build probably will need to remove it some other way. Hope it helps.
  • spacebar14, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dugg for the title.
  • rasterbator, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Hmmm... WGA. Is that pronounce Wigga?
  • KIDCole, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2For those of you running "illegal" copies of windows, here is the WGA notification removal program- http://www.firewallleaktester.com/tools/RemoveWGA.exe
  • Johnbinarystar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4This crap is why I am currently switching to Ubuntu. My windoz xp lap top with auto updates and now this bull seems to think it has to connect to Redmond every 15 minutes and ruin whatever performance dependent music app projects I am working on.

    Its a no win situation. If you turn auto updates off, you get infected, if you turn it on, your back to 486 performance. I like the way Ubuntu does it. You log on, it tells you once if there are updates available, and then you installem when you want, none of this tie up your bandwidth every 15 minutes.
    • wistar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Hmm. That's odd. I don't see the "every 15 minutes" behavior. Maybe one of the instances of svchost, well, the underlying service, anyway, is going bonkers? Have you ever had an SMS service (from an SMS admin server) running on it? Somewhere out there there is a little utility called ccmclean that does wonders to fix that up.
  • Waterrat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Microsoft is going to take Genuine Advantage of its user's reluctance to change out to something else, and is supremely confident those users will accept anything Redmond sees fit to hand them. I am in complete agreement with those who say if you don't like WGA, stop using Microsoft products."

    Which begs the question,what will they do next?
  • josegutz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Make us all their bitch... yet Again...
  • Vermifax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What's a "CD-KEY"...?
  • kourge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Windows Genuine Experience is Genuine Annoyance Experience (TM) indeed.
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