What is Digg?165 Comments
- evilTak, on 10/12/2007, -13/+85Hooray! Treating your customers like they're all criminals is the Right Thing[tm] to do!
- Scruffydan, on 10/12/2007, -9/+56MS has to realize that useres running pirated versions of windows is better for them than useres running linux or OSX.
- BlackNute, on 10/12/2007, -4/+45"Anyone who has pirate copy of XP right now is not going to buy a legit copy. They are going to wait for Vista to come out."
No, we've already torrented it. - trunkster, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42Anyone who has pirate copy of XP right now is not going to buy a legit copy. They are going to wait for Vista to come out. Microsoft should have started this WGA check years ago.
- flash200, on 10/12/2007, -7/+39Not only it is an inconvenience and a hassle, but it treats all customers like criminals. When you pay for a product, and use it legitimately, and have to receive frequent permission to continue using it, and have to hope that if you upgrade your computer it'll still work, that's like a slap in the face.
Sure they have the right to protect their products however they want. And they also have the right to discourage people from using their products. This accomplishes both. - Phyltre, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33I've never been able to justify paying hundreds of dollars for an OS. My computers have always come with Windows pre-installed, but if they didn't, I wouldn't be using Windows. Maybe lowering the price to something more reasonable would be the first step towards slowing piracy.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30It was cracked the next day after it started rolling out.
- crawfishsoul, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21@postalservice
"If you are running a legit copy anyway, is it really an annoyance?"
I just downloaded and installed IE7 Beta 3 from Firefox, I had to first validate my legit copy of Window's by downloading their WGA checker, then I was allowed to download, then during the actual install I had to allow the installer to check my copy of Window's again.
Yeah, it's annoying. - hifiDesign, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Any credence given to the fact that someone might *need* multiple copies of XP running on their machine (what, am I supposed to buy it three times for one damned machine?).
I'm a mac user, running Boot Camp so I can use HL2, 3D Studio Max, etc. I use two Parallels images for web design — one to verify sites in IE 6 and the other to verify in IE 7 beta 3 (which still sucks - yeah, mod me down...)
Any any rate, why should I *have* to hack my registry like a pirate just to make my Parallels machines authorize (it tricks WGA in case you were wondering). Bottom line: I own XP, and as long as it's on one machine, I should be able to have 50,000 iterations of it for my own purposes. Greedy M$, spyware making, baby killing bastards... - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Bleh, who cares, give it a week and some 14 year old who lives on IRC will have it cracked.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I have a legit copy of WinXP Pro so I haven't had any problems with WGA. However, the activation system really pisses me off.
I've upgraded my PC a few times since I first activated Windows. When I upgrade (as major as a mobo or as minor as a video card) this rude ultimatum pops up in a cute little speech bubble saying I have 3 days to reactivate Windows before my OS is bricked. So I click the bubble and try the automated authentication tool.
No dice. It fails.
I call the phone number presented to me on the screen and go through the incredible ordeal of vocally dictating a 48-digit key in sextets.
FAILS.
So it connects me to someone quasi-coherent in (or at least from) India who asks me to repeat the first 12 digits. She (all women so far) asks whether this is my first time installing Windows and why I am reinstalling. Then she reads out ANOTHER 48-digit key that I type into the confirmation dialog. I hit Finish and it's done.
When I did a major upgrade last week I installed WinXP and the activation bubble said I had 30 days to activate. So I did and it disappeared. Then I ran Windows Update which installed a zillion security fixes, rebooted, and was greeted with that rude bubble saying I now had 3 days to activate AGAIN!
I find this friggin insulting. I bought it. Let me use the damn software. I'm sick and tired of speaking to call centre lackeys instead of playing Half Life.
Microsoft, go ahead and protect your software but stop being so suspicious of your legit customers. Pirated copies of XP are WAY more convenient to use than legit copies. I'll keep that in mind when Vista comes out. - apotropaic, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15"I know I'll be hated for saying that but it's the truth."
Yes you will be and no its not. - jer2eydevil88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The funniest part of the whole WGA annoyance is that a large amount of the people who bought XP when it first launched seem to be reporting the problems. This really makes me want to be an early adopter of Vista, let me tell you how much I would enjoy spending $400 on something that will cause me headaches for years to come.
- juheimbu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@odiwan: The big difference is that I have to connect to the cell phone network in order to use the cell phone. I OWN my copy of Windows. I run it on MY computer. I registered it when I installed it. It's not suddenly going to become a pirated copy because they don't check on it every day. It's the same as it was the day I got it.
- Whitey04, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Yes they are, I do.
It isn't that the phone validates its number (right to use the service). But phone comanies increasingly want COMPLETE control of your phone (not just your service). What you can download and how, what software you have, what firmware you run and to "update" these things when they see fit.
So. Yes, people do complain about their phones calling home. - plncrzy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@TheZorch
... if you can afford to do that. And assuming you like the Mac OSX. Contrary to fanboy accolades, not EVERYONE thinks Mac OSX is the ultimate operating system.
Let's not forget a rather important benefit of Kubuntu (or whatever flavor... I'm just using the example that was given) -- it runs on the same PC that the [possibly pirated] version of Windows used to run on. And, the OS is free. Net cost: $0.
Mac OSX only runs on Mac hardware. Net cost: a lot more than $0. Maybe if Apple started selling OSX to run on all PCs... hell I'd pay $100 for it. But I'm not about to go out and buy a new damn computer just to use it. Personally I like the flexibility of being able to open up my PC and upgrade parts whenever I feel it's time... rather than be limited to a couple of select "upgrades" for the Mac, and then have to buy a whole new computer again in a few years. - DarkLaughingMan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You really don't understand the concept of "just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it happens to others" do you?
In the end the only people thing will really wind up hurting is the userbase of Windows that actually bought it (or got it pre-installed). Which is the irony of this whole situation. To protect their OS they use an anti-pirating checking method. Which isn't 100% effective (granted nothing really is) but it does more damage to the people with legit versions then it does to the people with the pirated versions. - dashifen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7If you don't install or get flagged as a false positive, you can get the updates you need from www.autopatcher.com.
- kimos, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12@cakestick:
That's EXACTLY what's happening to me!
I don't really use Windows anymore so I haven't been keeping up with their automatic WGA push. But all of a suddent I get all these emails from friends/family saying something about fraud on their computer. Now I've got all these computers I've built over the years and they've all got the same pirated version of XP installed on them...
Triage time. This has turned into a great way to say... "Have you hear of Ubuntu?" or "It's probably time that you buy a Mac." - bitcloud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think the sinful part of it is that when I bought XP, I bought an operating system not a nanny, and since then the original agreement we entered into has changed - I've gradually owned less and less of it.
The original agreement has changed so much its almost like that hundred bucks I loaned to by friend afterwhich the conditions changed so much I've barely seen a 6 pack of beer for it.
I expect more from the company I rely on for my livelyhood. - kweeket, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Did you read any of the previous comments? Did you RTFA? I quote:
"Other reports circulating through the Internet cited instances in which WGA had sent repeated piracy pop-ups to people who owned legitimate copies of Windows."
The problem here is that sometimes WGA incorrectly identifies purchased, perfectly legitimate copies of Windows as illegitimate. That's annoying. - mousky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Do you really think that the pirates have to go through even more hassles? Really, stop and think about that one for a minute. When a user has a problem with a piece of software, dvd or cd, do you really think that at that moment they are saying to themselves "hmmm, this is a big hassle, but I'm sure happy that pirate has to go through these same hassles"? When I bought a legit DVD and inserted it into my DVD, only to find that it won't play because of copy protection, I didn't get any warm fuzzy feeling that it's a good thing that pirates have to go through the same thing. I was pissed. Really pissed.
- Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well, i stand on the fence that realistically, we all knew something like this was happening so why are so many people complaining? This kind of stuff happens all the time. Look at other examples: People started speeding in there cars, which most of the time is ok, but then people started getting into accidents and they invented new laws for that, and sometimes legit people get pulled over for it. Same as the new Red light camera's, people started thinking they can just go right through red lights, so they put these camera's on the light, which also produce a fair number of false possitives.
Realistically, if you are using a legal version of Windows, why worry, if it causes problems, follow there procedure for reporting it. If you are using an illegal version, then you are part of the crowd that force microsoft into going this route. Either way i'm glad they implemented this into Vista towards the end of it's life cycle, as version 2.0 of wga will come with Windows Vista.
And seriously, if you ahve that much trouble with this, switch to linux, it's a perfectly good alternative if you don't want to pay for Windows, or hate the company. No need to bad mouth the product, just don't use it if you don't like it. - MattH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5this I why I prefer to use AntiWPA istead of having to jump thru Microsofts hoops .
- MattH, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7http://antiwpa.org.ru/ have fun
- mulling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Um, sorry, but no.
Microsoft has an *actual* monopoly, not a virtual one. There's a difference. It got it not because everyone chose its OS over all others, but because it used illegal business tactics to force OEMs to only offer Windows.
Google has a *virtual* monopoly because it offers the best search, at least in the opinion of most internet users. Every Google user could switch to Yahoo! with a few mouse clicks, and Google would evaporate. Meanwhile Windows users are often forced to use the OS because of circumstances beyond their control, and vast numbers would happily switch if it were feasible.
MS would not be in the position they're in today if they had been forced to use fair business tactics. Plain and simple. They have never had the best product or the best price. They're continuing to abuse their monopoly status to enter new markets with an unfair advantage (Pop quiz: how much money has MS burned on the XBox to date? Answer: more than everyone on this thread will earn in their lifetimes, combined...and they're still losing money with each XBox sale.) They can afford to do this because they have a cash cow monopoly that they got through strongarm tactics with OEMs. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I just declined the install. So far nothing seems to have happened
- Poco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Come on people - this isn't really about piracy. I don't like to see piracy more than anyone else, but this is a bit like music DRM, it doesn't stop real piracy, it just prevents normal users from doing perfectly normal things.
WGA does nothing to stop real pirates from making copies of windows and copies of whatever programs are protected by WGA (by removing that protection). It only impacts casual users and casual copiers, so all they really needed to do was enough to prevent casual copying. This is over the top. - ReXorcist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5***** Microsoft, I have a legit copy of an OEM version of XP, right after I installed the SP2 update it said "your serial is invalid please enter a new one as you may have mistyped it"...I even called MS and they couldn't even help me even after giving me new serials. WGA is 100% pure *****, I have to crack it to update anything and my copy is legal. It's just a sad and pointless process.
- flash200, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Another way to refer to it is "Digital Restrictions Management", which is a more-accurate description of DRM.
It offers no value to customers, and causes them to lose rights that they used to have. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Unless you play games, or do very specialized Office work, there is no reason to run Windows. Period.
Linux is cheaper, runs on older hardware, OS X is better and runs most mainstream apps.
People want to own the latest, flashiest stuff, but in the computer world newest and flashiest doesn't mean better.
Think about what you use your PC for. How much of that is Windows, and how much of it is applications, and how much of it is online services. - moeq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The pirates really don't care much about WGA. One of them cracks it the day it comes out, the crack spreads around via the usual channels, and before you know it WGA is a useless pile of code as far as the pirate community is concerned. It's the poor little legit users who haven't got a clue how to tell WGA to take a flying leap have to put up with validation checks and whatnot, noty the pirates. The pirates are all running a crack that disables/circumvents WGA. Have been since before WGA was mandatory.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7http://windowsupdate.62nds.com a decent alternative to the wga challenged.
works in firefox. - eTron, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7WGA Sucks... that is all! :)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7you wont be recieveing any further updates unless its installed.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6China needs to buy the products. Most people in the USA a legit copy. There aren't really enough nerds/geeks out there to hurt MS
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yes, at first they didn't believe it, until a few notable pro-MS reviewers and other professionals with legit copies got the WGA errors.
There is no denying that there are instances when WGA screws up and puts you on the terrorist list. - MechaFenris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If that were the only goal of WGA, that'd be great for Microsoft... catch those pesky pirates... (whatever.) But this is not the last component of Microsoft's "ongoing war on piracy". This is yet another component in the long line of "features" that will turn their OS into a subscription-based setup. Let's look at some things to see where this is going...
Windows Update. As of Win 98, Microsoft started the "new" feature of a component in Windows to download updates from their website. Early on, you could still clamor for CD packs of the rolled up patches, and certain places had standalone patches available, so that when you reinstalled your OS, you could get the patches quickly. By Windows XP, Update has become the defacto standard for getting patches. There is no separate place to download old patches when you reinstall. The update CDs are older and usually consist of a huge service pack's worth of fixes, and you even have to get more updates from their server because the mastering date on the CD is months before a round of critical updates appear. In and of itself, this is simply an annoyance, but taken with the context of other offerings and the recent announcement of possible "testing" of subscription models w/r/t Office (I forget where), you begin to see a strange pattern...
Now that we have WGA (another component of "update")... it's sole purpose is to check the legitimacy of your Windows license code. Well, that's the missing component to check to see when your subscription expires at Update time. And anyone who thinks that WGA in a later form (perhaps on Vista) could not actually shut off your system for failure to update your subscription is forgetting the one common thread here... Microsoft is not making as much as they used to on their OS and Office. What's the best way to sustain it? Subscriptions. Perhaps it'll be with business-class licenses first... perhaps it'll debut in South America or Europe first... but I have a feeling it's coming.
I don't actually know how much of an uproar this will create, but it should be interesting to watch. Any OS that requires a yearly, monthly, daily, weekly or hourly fee from me to be used will not be used by me. It's my personal choice. YMMV, so don't digg me down because I sound like a curmudgeon. heheheh. ;) - Doriath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Of course if you haven't had an issue on your machines it cannot possibly be the case that others are.
And I don't appreciate your point that I shouldn't be allowed to post on Digg because I choose to use an OS other than Windows. Perhaps a minimum age requirement before posting would work better... - HalBSure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wait for the Vista ME version.
- gothsquirrel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4 @postalservice14 Yes it is. I run a legit copy at home and i hate having to start up windows update a few times to download patched in IE or Windows Media Player, or other fixes for windows. They just wasted at least 5 minutes of every ones time with their genuine advantage crap.
- spyrochaete, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You can't turn off the WGA validator plugin in IE anymore.
- neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It IS your property, you paid for it. It's not your copyright. There IS a difference.
I can buy a book, it is my property, but I do not own the copyright on the text. I can read the book as many times as I want, I can read it to other people, I can take a particularly witty phrase from it and stick it on my email signatures, I can use it to prop up a table leg, I can read it at work, home, in bed, in the bath. I can even tear out the pages and rearrange them if I want; it's MY copy of the book.
The moment I reprint the book and sell it, I'm breaking copyright. Everything else is within my rights.
DRM is about managing my rights. Lessening them. I can't read that book anywhere but at home now. I can't read it aloud to someone else. I'm certainly not allowed to rearrange pages. If the publishing company goes bankrupt, the book will instantly evaporate in a cloud of demonic flame. - Scruffydan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I have never installed it. The only issue is that windows update no longer works (you can still get critical updates though allerts in the systray, and I can't download new ms software like IE7 and Media player 11.
no big deal - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Archer.. there's foaming rabid zealots on all sides. it's DIGG.
Personally I'm tired of the raving Windows fanboys posting on non-Windows related articles, proclaiming LOLROFL U CANT PLAY GAMES, UR OS SUX or pulling ***** "market share" stats out of their asses. But what can you do, it's Digg, it's The Internet, the tubes are clogged full of people like these.
I'm not installing WGA on my machine. If this means I can't use windows update anymore, well so be it. That machine is my Morrowind-and-Oblivion--maybe-Bioshock-when-it-arrives machine. Maybe I'll try one of the 'alternative' patching sites, they sound like they actually do the job they're supposed to. Maybe I'll just keep it firewalled and not touch IE. Everything else, I do on my other, nicer OS anyway. - juheimbu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You're comparing apples to oranges. On one hand, you have a real public health and safety issue. Those traffic laws help save lives and prevent serious injuries. They're not a magic bullet, but they do help. On the other hand, you have a business entity protecting its intellectual property.
I'm not concerned about WGA causing me any system problems. I'm just put out because thee's this new software that phones home periodically. I have no idea what it's sending. MS says it's just the product key, but they're track record certainly leaves that assertion open to question. They didn't even admit that it was phoning home until someone exposed that fact publicly. - Kdog22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm not one to condone pirating,, but there's no reason for this. So there's pirates out there , but there's millions more that aren't.. And I'm pretty sure MS is still going make another gazillion or so dollars in their future without having the damn WGA.
- neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Don't bother with Vista. They cut all the interesting-sounding features for it. Now it's just XP SP3, with Windows Genuine Advantage Plus! Pack
- hutectro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This is the biggest reason why i use linux-- I'm so tired of Bill Gates coming to my house
and seeing if I'm using legit copy windows xp .Suse linux is getting better with time before
you know it.
It will damn good operating system ranking right up their with windows. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@hifiDesign: I'd dig you down for spelling it "M$", but baby-killing? =D digg++!
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