What is Digg?153 Comments
- Barleyman, on 11/13/2007, -0/+42Send this note with your payment
since you agree .001 cents = .001 dollars, then 71 cents = 71 dollars.
so here is my payment for 71 dollars
[71 pennies hit table] - jimmajamma, on 11/13/2007, -0/+26Actually 5:
1. The quote.
2. The first call - I can post the message she left me after telling me she'd take care of it.
3. The first rep on the second call - (you can hear him for a second on the handoff right in the begining of the mp3).
4. The first supervisor
5. The final rep - Andrea.
ALL 5 made the mistake, all the way up the chain - JSchwage - you might want to listen to the call before you comment. There are 3 people on that call alone - and I refer to the 1st (as eurleif points out). If the verizon folks head back to 4th grade for work on their decimals, maybe they could take you along so you could sit in on kindergarten - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... Thanks for the comment. - jimmajamma, on 11/13/2007, -0/+25Oh the irony:
"Verizon grant helps teens learn math, science at CEET"
http://www.niu.edu/northerntoday/2005/july5/smile.shtml - queball, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25Right at 27:00 point of the recording is something that might help. Perhaps someone here is a better teacher of remedial math and can help her out.
Because all of these people appear to be unable to do math without a calculator and their calculators obviously don't have a unit conversion feature that they understand here is the best calculator I could find that will convert these units for them:
http://www.google.com/search?q=35893+times+0.002+cents - mezziah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22After listening to that call, this needs to be aired in CNN or something. I wanted to hit myself after listening to that call. The sheer stupidity of Verizon employees makes me want to throw up.
- cheztir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20-repeatedly slams head on desk-
- mjc7373, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Most comments here are about how stupid these Verizon employees are, but I think that's not really what's going on here.
Notice when he speaks to the male manager-type guy that there is a very long silence after the math gets explained, and after the long silence the guy put him on hold again. I think this was a reaction to the guy knowing at that point that they were wrong BUT they have been trained not to admit anything.
Also, notice when the female manager confidently insists that the math is right, then as he walks her step-by-step through the math and asks her how she would express these number on paper, she suddenly balks and admits that she can't follow his math and excuses herself with "I'm not a mathematician", at this point I have no doubt that she knows he's right but has been trained not to admit it at all costs.
So for those of you who are scratching your heads as to how these employees can be so stupid, just listen to the recording with that in mind, it's pretty obvious why they "didn't understand". - sphinx13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18How can that verizon guy be so incredibly stupid?
A fourth grader could tell you that .002 doesn't equal .2 - jimmajamma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16its not just him, there's a girl after him, and there were many before him - keep listening.
- attractivetb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I am 12 minutes into the call!
This is incredible! I am absolutely loving this!
I hate waiting on hold...I hate incompetent staff....why am I enjoying this?
PS
The caller is a saint. - eguler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I love how the manager in the recording is so cocksure that .002 cents per KB (as advertised and as they keep repeating) is the same as .002 dollars per KB and that they are right.
Amazing! This seriously deserves front-page news. I wonder how many people are going around not realizing they are getting fleeced by a magnitude of 100x.
- NZBloke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14More irony still, note the name of the author,
"Verizon grant helps teens
learn math, science at CEET
by Joe King"
Ha Ha Ha ..Joe King....joking....geddit? tee hee - tuartboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I actually wanted to do myself bodily harm while listening to that.
I could see how 1 person (maybe 2) could screw that up. But 5 in a row?
"I believe we have a difference of opinion." Unbelievable! - pahoehoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Customer service at Verizon definitely can't put a man on the moon. I don't know what you're talking about.
- Tweak589, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Oh and by the way. I just want to let you know that Andrea's "finisher" to have you go online and email corporate is a COMPLETELY irresponsible way of getting rid of the customer (you) on the phone.
Emails that are available and easily accessible as that on a companies website are almost always NEVER directed to the right person. If you ever get a reply from "corporate", you'd be one lucky man. But seeing how this situation is going to get some publicity, they should be forced to reply and let it be handled in a proper manner. But never fall for the "just email us from our website" trick. She wanted to get rid of you... but I am sure you were intelligent enough to figure that out :).
This defnitely is a big problem on their part, and the fault of the earlier reps that quoted you. If they were ever to solve this, the only logical thing to do would be to charge you only 71 cents and move on. But as seeing the bill is 71 dollars, they probably wouldn't want to lose that, and are too stupid to figure out it is their fault for a mis-quote and their fault for incorrectly reading the price of the rate. If you get into the nitty gritty and take legal action, you're the man :). I'd think you'd win because they refuse to charge you exactly what they've said you should be charged -- .002 cents. Durrrrr, hahah
Verizon's safest bet to not get too much exposure of this blunder is to just charge you 71 cents and get on with it. But first they need to take some math classes :) - UnnDunn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Very good point. But that reflects even worse on Verizon for training them that way, whether it was on purpose or not.
- jimmajamma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Thanks.
What's crazy, is what do you do when none of them can be made to understand the "complicated math" and you reach the top manager? - airencracken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Ugh. This makes me sad. How is it that grown adults can't do basic arithmetic?
It ain't rocket surgery. - jeremy66158, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10This kind of stuff happens all the time. 3 times last year to me. just keep this handy: http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cib/fcc475.cfm
If you are in Illinois you are in luck their gov regulators seem to have more teeth then the feds: http://www.icc.illinois.gov/ci/publicutility.aspx - jimmajamma, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I agree - email your friends - I need some more diggs!
Thanks for the confirmation - I was struggling. Kinda like speaking a different language... - kodek, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11No. Don't do that. That'll screw everything up. I don't think he needs e-vigilantes.
- colcarn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Ok call that woman and tell her to type this into google. Google will calculate it for them and shut them the ***** up.
.002 cents * 35893
Googles answer:
.002 cents * 35893= 0.71786 dollars - Witness, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Oh dear Lord.
*slaps head*
Do you work at Verizon? - mezziah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Well that settles it. Not even Verizon can argue with the almighty Google.
- jimmajamma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8As far as I know those 2 values are the same.
The issue is that they quoted me .002 cents which as most people would interpret it correctly is 2/1000ths of a penny per KB.
They charged me $.002 - thats dollars or 2/1000ths of a dollar. Which is .2 cents - not 2 cents, .2 cents - 2/10ths of a cent. That is what they should have quoted - 2/10ths or 1/5th of a cent per KB and therein lies the error. - sphinx13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yeah I posted that halfway through.
This is bull *****.
I'm going to email verizon.
You should post your information on the blog so people that understand math from verizon can contact you.
Also I seriously hope this gets to the front page. - dreamlayers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Bell Canada tried to rip me off by telling me that photo uploads are free and I could send 10 free photo messages. When I got my bill I found that photo uploads were billed like photo messages and no free photo messages are included with unlimited mobile web. I had to yell at them to get them to credit that.
- mezziah, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I will email them and help spread the word. I actually work for Comcast and have been telling your story to fellow coworkers laughing it up over Verizon's retarded customer service. I guess we know where all unemployed call center workers end up. So far, I have submitted your story to CNN and to FOX News Undercover. This type of story needs to be heard. Next stop: Consumerist.com
- NZBloke, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"Customer service at Verizon definitely can't put a man on the moon"
Maybe not, but with their math skills they could probably put one on the sun ;-) - o2o2o2o2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
Now that I have the attention of the world? - jimmajamma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You know, aside from the original call, I've found this whole experience funny. Last night as I went to sleep I started cracking up. And I've been laughing about this all day - but when I read your comment just now I started cracking up again - that was great - caught me completely off guard. JoeKing - great observation.
- scalt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm just surprised he was able to keep his cool all along. These people would seem to believe anything written on a calculator..forget about units or common sense
- yehudaj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6UNBELIEVABLE!! how do these people have jobs? they are either really stupid or extremely stubborn !! wow I'm near speechless at their incompetence!!
- SHSU01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@JimmaJamma - you HAVE to let us know how this concludes!
- ahanda07, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This phone conversation is just depressing.
I can't believe a Verizon "Supervisor" isn't able to do basic math.
Unbelievably pitiful. - JasonHofmann, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Did you listen to the audio? You sound just like them, crombiecrunch.
$0.02 (2 hundredths of a dollar) is equal to equal 2¢ (Two cents). However, we don't read "$0.02" as "2 hundredths of a dollar" because we have a name for "hundredths of a dollar", that's cents. So when we see "$0.02" we read it "two cents". It's a verbal shortcut, but that does not mean that $0.02 = 0.02¢.
Out of all his examples, the centimeter vs. meter example was the best. It's exactly the same as cents vs. dollars.
0.02 meters (2 hundredths of a meter) = 2 centimeters. "Centi-" is the prefix for hundredths, and is how we get the term "cents" (Centavos in Spanish, Centesimi in Italian).
0.02 meters doesn't equal 0.02 centimeters:
Google Calculator says:
0.02 meters = 0.787401575 inches
0.02 centimeters = 0.00787401575 inches
See, 0.02 meters is 100 times more than 0.02 centimeters, just like $0.02 is 100 times more than 0.02¢.
One more example. I was going to use grams, hectograms (common in Europe), and kilograms. To avoid using the metric system I'll use computer terms instead:
Some people might choose to read 0.001 GB (Gigabytes) as 1 MB (Megabyte). That doesn't mean 0.001 GB = 0.001 MB. Inversely, and more commonly, people refer to 1000 MB as 1 GB. But that doesn't mean that 1000 MB = 1000 GB.
(The above is assuming 1000 MB = 1 GB although in most contexts it's 1024 MB per GB because it's a power of two, but let's ignore that)
I hope that helps, crombiecrunch. - Tu13erhead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This is just pathetic. Get this to the front page.
@Verizon: GB2HS - privateuly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I actually think that those silence periods are because they are so confused and couldn't think anymore. They probably sensed that something is wrong because the caller is so confident and insistent, but they didn't want to admit that they are confused.
- datagod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Andrea's voicemail box is full.
Weird. - jimmajamma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5yes, they are not doing the correct math! yet another reason to bring visiblity to this ploy.
.002 cents = $.00002
so 1000 clicks should cost $.02 not $2. - UnnDunn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5He told them that. Repeatedly. Like he was talking to a kid in kindergarten, even.
He even tried to get them to do the math by hand. - spacebar14, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@dreamlayers:
How coincidental - I just (less then 5mins ago) got off the phone with Bell regarding the SAME THING. They told me uploads were free! They ended up charging me last month for them and they said "Oh, well, you only get 25 free, then you have to pay"... no biggie. So I did 17 uploads this month. Charged for every ***** one of them. The guy ended up crediting me in the end but said that none were free.
*****. - treborhudson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I understand the math and see the difference. My heart was even racing in frustration as I listened to the call.
But the fact of the matter is that most people see "49 cents" when things are written ".49 cents". Even for me my brain does the conversion and I read that as "49 cents". If it were a candy bar, I wouldn't think it was 1/2 a cent.
That doesn't change that it and they are wrong. The computer is obviously right and the math is correct but the quote was wrong and is probably wrong in their documentation. But they should acknowledge that ".002 cents" != "$.002".
I'd also ask if they even will change the bill based on a phone quote. If they don't, the whole thing is moot. - ashleycharee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7.002 cents * 1000 == 2 cents == $0.02 NOT $2.00
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Only part that the caller really did wrong..
He included the woman's direct phone line. That's really not very nice, even if she is dense. - sphinx13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You do what you already did and hope that a competent Verizon employee sees.
- UnnDunn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5OMG.
This is... there are no words whatsoever.
Just no words.
I mean, WTF? That was just an extended train wreck. I can't decide whether that should be an SNL sketch or a cautionary tale. - buddyw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4this is so sad.
- Witness, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't think he was overly difficult in any way, IMO. He patiently explained the math repeatedly and took a light swipe at the reps once or twice. I call that heroic restraint, personally.
- VulcanMike, on 10/12/2007, -0/+41/100 of a dollar = 1 cent
2/100 of a dollar = 2 cents
2/1,000 of a dollar = .2 cents
2/10,000 of a dollar = .02 cents
2/100,000 of a dollar = .002 cents
1 dollar = 100 cents
2 dollars = 200 cents
.2 of a dollar = 20 cents
.02 of a dollar = 2 cents
.002 of a dollar = .2 cents
.0002 of a dollar = .02 cents
.00002 of a dollar = .002 cents
1 of a cent = 1/100 of a dollar
2 of a cent = 2/100 of a dollar
.2 of a cent = 2/1,000 of a dollar
.02 of a cent = 2/10,000 of a dollar
.002 of a cent = 2/100,000 of a dollar -
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