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67 Comments
- StudsTurkel, on 10/11/2007, -6/+51Your .sig is useless and or redundant. Please stop using it.
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+18Their policies should be designed to protect the company from abuse, not to abuse the consumer.
I need only say one name to prove that point: Comcast. - meshman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15It's not just them either. Macrovision, Business Objects, Component One... it's extremely difficult (in my field) to find companies who's customer service and support don't completely suck to the point where using their product is a pointless effort. I'll save the rant but it's infuriating.
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16This is the fault of no one but the American public.
The willingness to accept the horrible extremes of customer service from large corporations and continue purchasing their products has led to companies gaining a competative edge for being heartless to consumers. They must preserve these policies as their competitors use them as well.
You are right, they should admit they lost the laptop and are wrong. That however, leads to another lawsuit from him for the loss of his data which he WILL WIN because Dell already admitted that they were wrong.
Corporations have no incentive to be kind to their customers. Period. They have their policies and license agreements and internal processes that customers are not privy to, and they enforce them as long as it will save them a dime.
And it is only your fault and mine. - tokage, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12@godlike:
Yes. I mean this in all seriousness: ***** comcast. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13"And it is only your fault and mine."
No it's not, the problem rests solely on those people responsible for the way the system is working *today*. People like me are dealing with the problems all these ***** baby boomers created. - sodade, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8@mikefitz2 - you ain't seen nothin' yet.
- Topher06, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10Every time someone calls Dell support, a puppy dies. Stop calling them, Google will solve your problems quicker and more reliably then Dell tech support. I.e. in Google type "Why does my f**king Dell not work".
- icantdrawanime, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12Every time I have to call dell tech support I get out a bottle of Aspirin...
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Maybe it's time to upgrade? :)
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7In a way I agree with you, but at the same time... if nobody was buying Dell computers and told them that it was because they had crappy foreign customer service, I guarantee that within 5 days Dell would have a 300 man call center on American soil.
We may not be the origin, but we are the cause. - oddmanout, on 10/11/2007, -6/+12i've only heard of two of them, and both were dealt a situation which they thought was unjust, and both of them stood up and did something about it. Sounds like some good Americans to me.
- mink78, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Yeah, good advice from someone who doesn't even have a digg icon. Perhaps they should just remove it altogether?
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Do you mean the ones in hollywood, or the trick-or-treaters?
Seriously though, you are right in a way. Running out and buying a wireless router that you know nothing about and have no idea how to configure, and then complaining when it does not work exactly right is pretty stupid. That mostly applies to tech products, but then again... this was actually said to me once at work (and so I made this): http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2776/stupidityiw3.jpg - VintageMud, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5You think that's bad? Try working for a company that is heavily reliant on a legacy application, and the only person at the company that knew how to support it quit, and the company that wrote the application is no longer in existence. And there is NO documentation.
Try finding support for that! - kamikaze87, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4How the ***** did we get on politics now?
Oh wait I forgot, we're dealing with Digg users here.
Hah-Hah! - Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7I think im ganna save the blank icon image and set it as my avatar.
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3You have the right in America to be protected from unwarranted abuse by business.
If you are not getting what you were promised, or if a company is outright cheating you (even if their policy says that they can, that does not make it right or legal) then you sure as hell better take them to court.
The apathy and cynicism that your statement represents is the exact cause of this problem. - Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Maybe not all of us base our internally perceived level of social importance on our forum avatar.
- johnhummel, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Perhaps, but it seems as though the "big business" has more resources on their side to deny claims rather than to fix problems.
I look at the situation like Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. I've had items from all three companies, and when things break I've received great customer support from the first two (Nintendo especially - a real person within minutes, and they shipped a replacement DS without any hang ups at all). Microsoft, on the other hand, was nothing but a pain in the ass.
Yes, companies have to protect themselves - but that shouldn't be an excuse for bad customer service. Then again, when I get bad service like that, I actually stop buying that companies products anyway, so maybe if there's enough people that do that it will finally convince them that "profits" are "good" - and you only get those profits if you treat me nice. - haggie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Every time I call Dell customer support, I get the Indian guy that lives across the hall to translate for me...
- TheUngod, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Just wondering, but are you referring to B2B companies? Or B2C? B2B tech support tends to be great, while B2C tends to be awful. Maybe because businesses spend a lot more money per customer, so it's more important to keep them.
- slapshottttttt, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3You're half right, but half wrong as well. Its not just that consumers don't focus enough on checking support, we are also outright lied to about it.
I just made the mistake of buying a Dell and am going through my own support hell, and I did check the support options extensively. I've not dealt with them before, and the promises from Dell made it sound like a cheerleader came to my office to fix my computer before it broke - and brought me a beer when she did.
I suppose you can say that I, and other consumers, should know those claims are too good to be true, but it doesn't seem unreasonable for me to assume that company promises are not outright lies. - Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Yes I agree with you. It is the same as with government: the base nature of government and corporations is TO BE EVIL and heartless to consumers to any extent that they can. It is business, they want money and that is ALL that they care about. The government is corrupt and sucking right now because everyone turns their head at anything that inconveniences them.
In order to force companies to behave, the consumers must be willing to boycott. The problem with that is the apathy level in modern America.
We owe our problems only to ourselves.
To quote and end, "There is no they, there is only us." - Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2What 'arbitration' typically involves is a company that is being paid by the defendant to settle the agreement IN THEIR OWN BEST INTEREST. That is not fair to any consumer.
ALL THAT ASIDE: Nobody, not anyone, has the ability to remove your constitutional rights from you or infringe on your civil liberties. The reason it was overturned is because a EULA cannot override the U.S. constitution! - jman8888, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Can i sue dell for having No AGP/PCI-e On a newish Pc?
dang... i wish - disciple83, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3You have to understand that the vast majority of Dell customers are those people who do not use Google to fix their problems, as they don't have a clue how to use a search engine or forum search to find answers. Not to mention the fact that many users are of the typical, "we shouldn't have to fix it ourselves if it's under warranty," like my parents, who only have one machine i ntheir home and can't use a web search because they can't connect to the net or even boot up.
These are the types who call Dell and ultimately end up screaming at some international lackey who can't understand a southern drawl any more than my parents can understand a thick eastern european/middle eastern accent, if they even get a human. - troglodytejb, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I see a huge part of the problem in consumers, too. Consumer focus is completely feature based, with little to no interest in ongoing customer support. I think of it as the "I want it now" mentality: people would rather pay less for an inferior product with no customer support than slightly more for a superior product with long term warranties or non-exploitative customer support.
Basically, consumers as a whole need to learn to consider customer service and lasting support as "part of the product" rather than a throw-in, because economics are the only incentive that will force a change in corporate policy.Yeah, support sucks from tech companies, but complaining and losing one customer- who already bought the product- is not a powerful enough incentive to force a change to improve terms of service, warranties, and customer support.
Just my opinion...
EDIT:
@Godlike
Wow... read your comment after mine posted, I think we're seeing this the same way! - Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Another point I would like to make before this vanishes, is a somewhat related point regarding planned obsolescence.
When companies design and build products now, they design them to fail. Often, this is done simply by using lower quality parts in a single part of the product that have a predictable 'live duration' and rate of failure. They do this so that you will have to buy another one from them someday. (and can you believe that when they even comment on it many, many many businesses defend this as being part of the 'American way' ideology? sickening)
What this leads to is consumers attempting to get help from the company when their product breaks or needs service. This in turn leads to a MASSIVE cost for the company to even have customer service to begin with, let alone the cost of replacing failed products. The end result is that they are not any further ahead now than they were before they started building failure into their products. This is especially true in a day and age where everyone is only a phone call, chat or email away. We expect visibility and accountability but in reality, rarely experience either.
Businesses started to realize this about 20 years or so ago and began ramping down their customer service. 'Customer Service' is an arbitrary term now. Unless your business REALLY IS SERVICE (i.e. external accounts helpdesk or similar) then you are not exactly worried about what people who already paid you think about your company anymore.
Basically, the way I see it, manufacturers started screwing consumers and got the back end of it. When they discovered what was happening, they simply gave us all the finger.
Fight back! - DanoTime, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Sure this can be abused, but the consumer really has no say in customer service. It's a liability - an expense for the company that sells the product - there's only 2 or three that offer it so they know they will always have customers. It's good to see things like this - it keeps things in check.
dugg - jason469, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I agree with Godlike. The people are to blame for this, they've accepted crap from big companies for far too long. The only thing corporate businesses understand is Class Action Lawsuits. Small Claims are small change and they just through money at those people and usually the case is dropped/settled out of court.
- efinit, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1i read this article during my 60 min phone call to microsoft in order to get a new product key for windows xp after i installed a new hard drive.
- HPCELarry, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't know how many people here have used Newegg.com, but in my expirience, its one of the few companies that has very good customer service. My expirience with dell has been a nightmare.
- oddmanout, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I had a very good experience with compaq's customer service. I had a fan go out on my laptop while it was under warranty, they sent me a box to ship it back to them and 2 days later it was back in my hands with a functioning fan. (although I do recommend only using the online chat, as I didn't understand a damn thing trying to talk to the person who barely spoke english)
- qwertydvorak, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1alot of dells don't come with agp or pcie slots, you have to specifically ask the rep to find out if they do.
- zdiggler, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I used to work at techsupport and we were told to assume is everyone is dumb ass and must go thought trouble shoot. It was a HDD company and if customer said I make noises, he must install back in machine and have us hear the noise before RMA etc.
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1No 8x AGP or PCIE?
I would bitch until they upgraded it, unless its a bottom of the barrel PC.
Embedded graphix FTL. - jman8888, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Nothing. And only 1 PCI slot too. My Grandmas So its not my prob but i know how it is. My Pc doesnt have any expanstion either but when i got it i was like 11 and didnt know better
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1No, no one really gives a crap about your little class action lawsuit because almost all of them are just some lawyer trying to get rich and get tossed out of court. If you don't like a company's service...don't buy their stuff. If the stuff don't work, return it.
- thinman1189, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"He turned the power to the have-nots
And then came the shot!" - TheUndertoker, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2@ johnhumme
I've had to deal with both Sony and MS for gaming console problems (PS2 & 360) and besides the fact I only understood half of what the Indian CSR said, I was treated surprisingly well. Was less than 2 weeks from the time I called initially to when I got my 360 back.
Sony on the other hand......... - mink78, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1All three of you have brought up valid points, although maybe overstated. This is probably the wrong place to say this, and I will surely be dugg down.
Corporations provide customer service and support as an added value to the customer. They spend LOTS of money on it, with customer service budgets reaching into the billions of dollars annually. They develop complex systems and processes to try to meet every customers need. Smart people are making these decisions and even smarter people are building the systems.
That said, not every customer need can be met. Virtually impossible. Also, mistakes will happen. They happen in process and system design, decision making on the customer service rep level, the technician working on a machine, the sales rep who doesn't fully understand the ins and outs of the service options (since they don't deal with it everyday). I bet if you asked a customer service rep what the service options are, you will receive a much different response than the sales rep.
The big difference in a good customer service organization comes from how the management pushes those folks who design the processes and policies to empower the front line customer service reps to handle your problem. It's not like they can offer everyone a free computer anytime you have an issue. That leads to "gaming" and potential huge financial losses. But, the reps need the the tools, training, and SUPPORT from their managers to provide you with the utmost service that we as consumers FEEL so entitled to.
For example, wireless companies are on average, one of the worst industries for customer service excellence. But, when you look at T-Mobile, they have run away with 5 straight JD Powers awards for customer satisfaction. This is because they provide the absolute best customer service in both their retail stores and call centers. They don't have the best coverage areas, phone options, or service options, but they rank the highest because the front line people - the customer service reps and retail store sales people - are empowered by the rest of the company to handle your issue. And even then, there are still customers who are not happy.
In the end, we should all recognize that this particular situation was handled poorly by Dell, and I am sure there are other people with problems using Dell's tech support and customer service, but that doesn't mean that every corporation is out to get you. - ALfuckingBUNDY, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@treoinmypocket
that sounds like a great idea. how did you find all of the numbers? - PacketBoy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I also agree with godlike - the saddest part is that we have accepted this kind crappy service for so long, that our perception of what good customer service actually is has become distorted....we now think that a company has good service just because they suck less than the other guys, when in actuality, their service is pretty crappy too. I guess its all relative.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The judge can resolve the dispute pretty much how he sees fit as long as he follows the law. A contract carries a lot of weight but it's not a slam dunk.
- undergroundman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I wish we could shine the light on the companies that don't force us to go through arbitration - but I doubt they even exist.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Woa...small claims court! No one has EVER done that before. Just ignore that every medium to large company easily has hundreds to thousands of pending cases going at any one time. Most of them are people trying to get free stuff.
- tony23, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1FTA: "For those unwilling or uninterested in the hassle of filing a lawsuit"
Typically, Small claims suits can be filed by mail, and takes only filling out a 2-page form. - johnisfat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I have no apathy and only have the most respect for customer service. I work at a bank where I see everyday how customer service keeps our my job. Companies have lost their respect for their customers and consumers are responding in a big way.
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