What is Digg?98 Comments
- bigpresh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+69Any copy protection will be broken in one way or another. If the content can be viewed, it can be copied.
However, this stupidity will hurt innocent users trying to legitimately watch their purchased copy of a DVD on any system the copy protection scheme doesn't support (read, anything other than a dedicated DVD player or a PC running Windows maybe).
Unfortunately, the general public will be mostly oblivious to all this DRM crap, and will probably buy it anyway. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+38If it's made by a human, it can be broken by a human. Simple as that.
- rocke86, on 10/12/2007, -4/+39This is one of the reasons why P2P networks will be kept alive.
People shouldn't have buy a movie and find out it won't let them use it the way they want, forcing them to go online and download a copy in order to regain thier freedom to do what they want with it.
We are losing are freedom, help fight the DRM movement.
http://defectivebydesign.org/ - samfrench, on 10/12/2007, -1/+32You have the coded material and the machine to decode it, eventually people are bound to figure out how the machine does it. Seriously DRM is a stupid idea in the first place, eventually it will be cracked.
- Krush, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28I'm starting to think Sony is running a hate campaign against themselves. This may also be the birth of Mod chips for things other than your gaming console.
- threepio, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23Fear leads to Anger
Anger leads to Hate
Hate leads to Piracy...
The path to piracy, beware, young Skywalker, for Ninjas there are. - dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Ah yes, good idea. Pay 100 smart and capable people a lot of money to outsmart about 10,000 other people equally smart and driven by desire to be the first to break it. Hmmm, I wonder which group has a better chance of outsmarting the other.
- thegreyfox, on 10/12/2007, -8/+25Begun, the DVD War has
- dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Make movies easy enough to watch, and inexpensive enough to buy to justify their purchase over their copying, and they (the customers) will come.
Big industries instead ignore this simple fact of improving their product, and instead decide to try to bully their way through it. They're going to be as successful fighting piracy as the US government is at fighting terrorism. - JohnnyVu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12The efforts of these companies are futile.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I can't speak for anyone else, but all of this crap has driven me straight into the arms of Netflix. I have an early DVD player, and I'd say about 1 in 15 disks simply won't load. Between that problem and all the ads (some unskippable) the studios infest DVDs with, I simply refuse to buy them anymore.
- shikaga, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9DVD shrink, cut out all the adds and "don't do piracy" videos. I shrink DVDs I actually own.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I rent DVDs instead of buying them because I refuse to buy a crippled, ad-infested product. I still have to deal with their crappy products, but at least with a rental the studios are seeing much less money from me.
- graemee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8DVD Shrink lowers the quality of the film by transcoding the video to fit on a single layer DVD, as opposed to the "dual-lyaer the movie is probably encoded for."
OR you can copy it without the transcoding. Yes it's not probably not often used, but DVD shrink does not have to transcode. It can copy it directly to a full ISO which often can still fit a DL DVD+R. You can also use ISO mounting tools like Daemon tools or Alchol to mount and play the full untranscoded DVD. - nogami, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Until they make a player which is required to be hooked to a network connection all the time to authorize encrypted media, all DRM is crack-able. In order to play the encrypted content, the player MUST have the decryption key in the hardware, somewhere.
The studios would love nothing more than to require all devices to be connected to the net all the time - it would be great to give them ultimate control, pay-per-view opportunities, lots of free market and consumer data, and of course the anti-pirate capabilities of just remotely destroying your hardware if they think you've tampered with it.
Of course, it could be hidden very well and put in hard-to-reach places, but never underestimate the power of a determined hacker (Microsoft did on the original Xbox, and did again on the 360, although not to quite the same extent).
For now however, the big studios, and the hardware manufacturers that support them can all go f**k themselves, because I have no intention of supporting EITHER format. I'm absolutely, perfectly happy with DVDs.
(edit: for the comment above, you're absolutely 100% bang-on. It's a matter of price vs. convenience - if they price it right, there will be no market for pirated materials. If you can buy an original at a price the pirates can't beat (and is still faster and better quality than a downloaded version), then people will buy your product. If you try to have your cake and eat it too, you'll lose). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Pffft. I can always count on DVD Jon.
- iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You know, merreborn, you give a good point, however, DES and 3DES all rely on something that makes your analogy moot. They relay on public and private keys. So, unless EACH AND EVERY DVD has been encrypted differently (e.g. with different keys), it's going to be cracked, and probably very very soon after it's released this time. The average consumer (otherwise known as "sheep"), won't care,and will buy whatever their money will buy - but the "nerd" or "geeks" won't put up with it, and their numbers are growing everyday now. The entertainment industry unfortunately won't EVER be hurt by folks "not buying ***** from them" - I mean look at Sony, everyone forgot about the root kit ***** and it's not even been a year yet.
- dcmjzero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@merreborn
There is a difference: with PGP you only share the key with the person you are talking to. With DVD, don't they have to share the key with everyone? - lnxaddct, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7merreborn,
You're forgetting that in order to watch it, you're machine has to be able to undo whatever the movie studios have done to encrypt. This means that your machine and/or media is in possession of a key that will decrypt whatever they have encrypted. If you don't have the key, you can't decrypt it. The only way to implement DRM is to hide or obfuscate the key as best as you can. Hide it in hardware or something, make the hardware kill the key if it is exposed. Regardless, eventually some careful soul will extract that key, and because all of these discs are encrypted using the same process, it only takes one person to crack it, to kill the whole system. Now the way they've recently implemented DRM, multiple keys work, so that Sony can decide "Inigma had their players cracked." Inigma then has the option of telling your hardware to stop functioning, via the internet (and the player will have been built to make the player not able to play unless it is able to connect to the internet), and if Inigma fails to do that, Sony can distribute all of their future movies without the capability to play on Inigma hardware. People have alredy started hacking around these methods, and I fully expect it to last maybe 8 months in the mainstream without being cracked. The fundamental flaw is that inorder for DRM to work, the consumer must hold the key to decrypt content, but must not be able to see the key. It turns into a game of hide and seek, and eventually the consumers will find a solution assuming there is enough motive to. Hell, even if Sony wanted to disable 2 million dvd players, do you thinkthe public wouldn't freak out? The second Sony pushes that "button", hell will be released upon the media companies. Yes, the MPAA/RIAA have politicians in their pockets, but the reaction from the public would be too large. Even if the lawmakers failed to do their job, there would be huge boycotts. So the key here is to crack the most popular blu-ray player, and then Sony or some other company won't have the balls to disable it. - IcanFLY, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7It says in the article that they will be able to remotely update encryption if it gets broken.. doesn't that mean there is a possibility that hackers may be able to overwrite the encryption scheme remotely too
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13"If it's made by a human, it can be broken by a human. Simple as that."
Cute, but that's not really true. Many modern encryption schemes are pretty solid. 3DES still hasn't been "broken" -- single DES has been shown brute-force-able, but 3DES is still alive and kicking -- a standard initially published almost 30 years ago.
Properly implemented DRM could probably be nigh unbreakable. The real question is, how practical is it to make unbreakable DRM? HDCP may make it feasible. - Poco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6You make it so complicated. Just make a player that doesn't respect the copy protection. No doubt there will be a factory in China churning them out as fast as they can export them.
- dongiaconia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5He created PGP for reasons other than a weekly paycheck.
- atroxodisse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What's wrong with DVD? I don't see the need for HD-DVD or blu-ray. DVDs work fine. Good quality sound and video, works everywhere. Why do we need a new format? Because the industry needs to infuse itself with more cash from people having to buy the new equipment and get the new versions of their favorite movies in the new format. Waste of money.
- mdshort, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4We are the customers. Lower your DRM and surrender your content. Your video and audio originals will be added to our collection. Your marketing strategies will adapt to service consumers. Resistance to piracy, is futile.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8It's entirely possible for the minority to win. PGP was originally developed by a single guy, and it's among the most highly trusted encryption software on the market. And not for lack of people trying to break it.
- shikaga, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Stop giving me more reasons to hate Sony!
- matts0344, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yes, people who want movies in 1080i will want and buy these players. I will once they hit $200.
- rhawk301, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My prediction is that within a few months of releasing this standard, or multiple ones, we have somebody who figures out how to get the data off, and onto a normal DVD and/or hard drive. As stated, if it can be viewed at all, in any form, it can be copied.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4i'll still go see the occassional movie at a theater. And normally i'll pick up art house, or mom/pop ran theaters before anything else. That's not to say i didn't just check out X-men.
But i can tell you one thing. They've lost me as a customer and under no circumstances will they win me back. I will NEVER (and haven't for 2 years) purchase another dvd again. Remember kids. Pirate Bay is your friend.
I'll take my crappy quality video of someone holding a handheld camera in a theater any day and as long as magnetic and even flash storage keeps getting bigger and bigger in capacity.. i see no reason to mess with any of the new optical drives at all.
Oh.. and i don't game either. So that's not even a worry for me.
Seriously.. i really don't care if we're left to small budget B movies. I really don't care if the whole world knows about a band i like and if i get to hear them on the radio (that i don't listen to.. b/c.. ***** clear channel too).
I want the MPAA and the RIAA to burn. I want them to fall. Music and film were around before the MPAA and RIAA, it will continue to be around far after they perish.
Maybe then i can pay the people that deserve it. The artists. Not the middle men who treat me like i'm a ***** criminal. (which.. since they told me i am so many times over and over and over again, it sunk in.. and now i really am..)
So when the MPAA and RIAA question why i no longer spend money to them.. i'll tell them. I am your *****, and you should be ashamed of what you've eaten. I'll happily give my money to a band i just checked out in a local club with no record deal.. i'll happily give my money to a guy selling mixtapes out of his trunk.. or a band sellings audio files to download directly off their site. But i'll be damned if these organizations see one red cent of my money.
They'll have to pry it from my cold dead hands b/c i'd sit in a jail cell before they touched me. - GameCop, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6No.. no.. no.. no..no ... The hell with blu-ray and HD-DVD.... the original DVD will continue on for as long as the VHS lived. (20 years)
Nobody is dumb enough to spend $300-400 on these new DVD players to play just a regular movie??? Instead, you can buy a cheap regular $50 dvd player and play them. I don't want this new format and you shouldn't either. - WeThePeople, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's not hard to get what you want as a consumer, one catch, everyone needs to be united in the same effort.
All you have to do is not buy a single DVD, HDDVD or Bluray player or disc, and all DRM content like itunes, it would not take that long for them to abandon DRM and also come up with a single unified format. The corporations would even work together to solve the problem, they would lose millions every day until they did. We have all forgotten that the power is in the people, we hold all the cards, we are just unorganized and lack willpower as a collective to get what we want.
Corporations hold no power over the consumer, we grant them such power by supporting them. It's as easy as Boycotting all DRM, and the new competing formats until we a have fair use and a single format. - gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You need no one other than Sony has to give you a reason to hate them: by their past actions (rootkits) and their future actions they intentionally place themselves in an adversarial position with every consumer on the planet. They've just reinvented the Betamax by developing a better product that nobody wants or needs. All they've done is created another niche market for lesser products which irritate the consumer less than Sony's.
Remember their old advertising campaign: "Sony, No Baloney" ?
(damn, I'm old)
The new consumer campaign slogan will be "Baloney. No Sony". - deut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@jonnyeh
WRONG - If you look in the options, you can set the DVD to shrink to DVD9. It just so happens that the default is DVD5. - Wyzard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Once HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray are cracked -- permanently and completely, like CSS is -- then I'll consider buying them. From a technical standpoint I have no objection to a newer, higher-capacity format, but I don't want to support use of DRM.
- Yashar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That story was innacurate, the laptop never was even capable of playing blu ray. The one next to it was.
- drn666, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Unfortunately, the general public will be mostly oblivious to all this DRM crap, and will probably buy it anyway."
Like it or not, this is the key here... and not in the way the parent intended.
The key here is that the vast majority of users will never, ever encounter any DRM related problem. I'd say 95% of users. They go to the video store, rent a DVD, bring it home, watch it, take it back. They maybe buy a disc here and there.
DRM isn't cool, sure - but it exists because the vast majority of the population could care less (read: doesn't affect them) and the ones who do can usually be dismissed by the studios as vocal zealots with no money to spend, or no intention of spending it in the first place (read: digg readers). - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I don't see how they think they can block the piracy of the disk completely, all you have to do is have the end be the signal acceptor, emulating a television set.
- Burgerman851, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"If it's made by a human, it can be broken by a human."
You must write software! - ReikiMaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There are plenty of legitimate reasons to make a copy of something you own. Every time I buy a new Disney or cartoon movie for my kids, the first thing I do is copy the movie and then give them the copy to watch. I will then put the original disk away for another day after the kids have scratched and ruined the copy. That way I will always have this movie regardless of what my kids do to it.
That is a legitimate reason to be able to copy something that I own. I am not out selling this on the street, or even offering it to friends. I copy what I buy only to preserve it. I don't think movie or record studios will ever get on the same page as consumers. - scuba7183, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All of this DRM and crap is getting really old really fast. Seriously, SONY, everyone else, give it up.
- albrad84, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Unfortunately, the general public will be mostly oblivious to all this DRM crap, and will probably buy it anyway"
Right on... I'm glad to see an article about this in a mainstream magazine like Business Week because so far I've only seen articles like this on tech websites where your average consumers aren't likely to go. Hopefully we'll see more of the same as the launch of these next-gen dvd's gets closer - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3DRM drives me towards less restrictive content more everyday. I am finding I just don't care anymore about having the latest and greatest due to the DRM restrictions. I feel like what I have now (xvid, dvd, mp3, etc) is good enough for my needs and if I "upgrade" to new formats and standards my life just gets complex. I honestly don't care enough about watching Spiderman part 2343847 to deal with DRM issues anymore.
- sembetu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@merreborn: Hold your horses there... if we need encryption to encode something ONLY to be decrypted on a SINGULAR other end, then ridiculously difficult to break if not impossible encryption is useful. However, in order to put a capable player in a consumer's home, it must be able to decode the media. As well, a SOFTWARE player must be able to do the same. How then, do you expect to have so many hands building devices SPECIFICALLY designed to decipher this encryption, without the capability to decode it eventually trickling into the hands of some 2600 or MAKE: regular?
Rhetorical answer: Don't Count On It. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It can still be done. 720p more likely as it is lower resolution so no need for 25GB discs all thats needed is DVD9 at most.
- shiftless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I haven't bought a CD or DVD in a decade. What's the point of buying it if you never actually own it?
- poipoipoi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2solution: don't buy any HD stuff. invest it in hookers and coke!
- Nerevar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's amazing how fair use has gone down the ***** these days. No one seems to care about it, but it is important.
I don't want to have to tote my DVDs all over the place when I can easily rip them to my computer. We spend tons of money on movies, games, and other things, only to have our right to use them as we please taken away. - Chozabu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4OK, lets say everyone moves onto super drm, tight locked digital everything, encrypted signal is sent to DRM capabale monitor
even then, with a few lenses and a high qual camera, you could get a near 1:1 copy (easily good enough)
or people will dismantle these drm monitors, pump decrypted info into a raw video file
the way to win, is to provide better service than the pirates! no artifical delays before releasing things, make it easy to play any media you licence on whatever you want to, offer a choice fo formats to get it in - high speed servers to download movies, lower prices
even if its not as effective as it could be, it should reduce the numbers of pirates massivly
if i want to watch "the general" or a more recent film, say "bubble boy" right now its very freaking hard to get hold of a copy, its easier, and free to download something like that
if a new film is just released, only place to see it is the cinema, which is expensive, a long treck from home, uncomfterable seats, and thers the risk of other viewers annoying me
id often rather see the film at home with a few friends round - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you don't buy it, the technology will fade away and they will deliver what the consumers want. The consumer not Sony or the politicians will determine the next media format. This copy protection crap has been tried before. Has anyone seen a copy of Lotus 123 for sale lately? Well in the early 80s Lotus, the premier spreadsheet, decided that they were tired of all the boots and copy protected their discs. That was the beginning of the end for Lotus and believe it or not the real beginning of Microsoft Office. Why, because Microsoft just delivered product. They made a mint and Lotus is a distant forgotten footnote in history. There have been other attempts at such anti-consumer garbage and all have failed miserably. People just don't plop down cold cash for things that make life more difficult they spend their money for things that do what they want.
Neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD are going to make it. Sure they'll sell some to people that too much money but the vast majority will find some other media to settle on. Yes I said settle. HD is nice but it's not that nice. Piracy will probably skyrocket until some smart entrepreneur finds a way to deliver desired content in a format that people will put up with. the MPAA and RIAA can cry all they want but like Lotus, their gravy train is over and all the laws and court cases won't do much more than make them the bad guys that they are. People speed by state troopers going 80 because they know that the troopers can only get get one out of thousands and the more people caught make the politicians pay. This to shall pass and in today's world I give it at most two years before a real entrepreneur stands up and makes a boat load like Microsoft did. -
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