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Sun Will Fire 2500 Employees; Posts Huge Loss

online.wsj.com — Sun Microsystems Inc., citing impacts of the softening U.S. economy, posted a net loss on a slight decline in revenue for its third quarter and announced plans to cut up to 2,500 jobs. Shares fell 2.42 or 14.82% to $13.91 in after-hours trading.

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  • venvision.org, on 05/02/2008, -26/+8It's not like java was the king of languages anyway, other than the cross-platform stuff it was hard to code in and usually the apps were less than user-friendly, this isn't a huge surprise to me.
    • horsiedude, on 05/02/2008, -9/+10Java hard to code in. I really wonder if you have actually coded in Java, it is so much easier than everything else. FYI, almost all apps are java based at some place.
      Like the article says this loss was more to do with decreasing server sales and not with Java.
      • aidave, on 05/02/2008, -3/+12I'm a professional Java programmer. I think PHP is far easier to get web stuff done in than JSP, even .NET has an advantage (unfortunately). I like Java but I think there are "easier" development platforms, especially when it comes to Java-based IDE's. Like most programming it isn't really the coding that is the hard part, it's using the tools and setting up the platform, I think Java has some difficulties there.
    • TylerDCA, on 05/02/2008, -4/+12Hard to code in? Java must be the easiest language to code in, you obviously don't come from a C++ background.

      Sun's java offering is the only thing keeping the company alive, as it is the most stable JVM on the market.
      • invinciblechunk, on 05/02/2008, -2/+6Most J2ME implementations can hardly be called "stable". Some can hardly even be called "working". Sun deserves to die for thrusting Java upon mobile.
      • localzuk, on 05/02/2008, -1/+5Actually, I'd say their thin client system provided a good amount of income too. Sun Global Desktop is pretty damn good.
      • marx2k, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2I know people have already said this but... Java hard to program in? Maybe if you are talking about dealing with EJB 2.1 or something.. but Java itself? wow... Apps being less than user-friendly is the fault of the app designer, not the language it was coded in
      • harbrut, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2Sun gives Java away. They give almost everything they make away and they count on people buying servers and paying for support. With that being said, I'm surprised they're still in business.
    • Tyr7BE, on 05/02/2008, -3/+10You're talking about it like Java's past tense. Java is still HUGE. Sun's just being poorly managed and taking some risks that aren't working out. Think of just about any industry, and there's bound to be some Java used somewhere. J2ME is in small devices around the world, J2EE is used to serve web pages just about everywhere where companies need high scalability, and J2SE is used in a huge number of other applications.

      Apps that aren't user friendly is more a problem with the developer and less with Java.

      And I used J2SE 5 to code up a VOIP telephony management system a few years back - I thought it was great! Simple, straight forward, easy to get stuff working. Anyone who finds Java difficult probably shouldn't be coding in the first place.
    • BlazinBeckham, on 05/02/2008, -4/+6You obviously aren't a programmer.
      • synarchy, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4The "apps were less than user-friendly" was a hint that you are correct. Bad UI design the fault of the language? Not.
      • paulisnotdead, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2Right, just because someone doesn't dig your favorite platform they suddenly couldn't possibly be a programmer? Screw that. I'm fully aware that I'll be buried for this considering I'm in a thread that is biased towards java, but seriously? It's not reasonable for you to make assumptions about someone you have never met and degrade them for their opinion. If I over heard someone talking in the street about how terrible java is I would never come up to them and say "you obviously aren't a programmer" I mean you even fail to explain why that wouldn't be, Your comment lacks proper analysis and instead of reasonable explaining your point of view like he did you scoff and act above him, your common courtesy is severely lacking.
    • troye, on 05/02/2008, -4/+2Okay ***** assholes, leave Sun alone.

      Sun just didn't sell that many systems previous quarter, as it accounts for 40% of their sales!

      As for eliminating 2500 US jobs, I hope that those talented people get new employment soon. God speed.

      /no sarcasm, I'm serious.
    • 4UIDigg, on 05/03/2008, -0/+2Not hard to code, just hard to distribute production software because the installer does not come with the SDK. And java applets hog CPU when they start-up. Adobe Flex is kicking java's *ss and eating java's lunch as I type this.

      But yeah, Sun's lack of success is no surprise.
    • iainc, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1This must be the 5th reduction in force since 2002? Java should have been open sourced at birth. I wish Sun would go back to being an innovative hardware company. Some of their servers are gorgeous; it's time they started concentrating on what they do best. Stop acquiring (StorageTek, MySQL, VirtualBox). I still can't wrap my head around the fact they bought MySQL, but are still trying to use Oracle on some internal projects; talk about not eating your own dog food.
  • Alix7, on 05/02/2008, -8/+31Look on the bright side, this could slow down global warming
  • jgambleii, on 05/02/2008, -2/+13I'm sure they'll recover. The MySQL buyout took some oomph out of them.
    • cubicledrone, on 05/02/2008, -1/+15Well, it just means Sun is more like Disney. Disney fired 4000 animators claiming they were too expensive then wrote a $7 billion check to buy Pixar after spending 10 years saying Pixar sucked. Oh, and those animators were PERSONALLY responsible for over $200 million in top-line revenue, so it ain't because they didn't have the skills.
  • AbdullahAbuDawu, on 09/12/2008, -11/+4Whats going to happen to Solaris?!

    /sarcasm
    • mikelieman, on 05/02/2008, -1/+5Solaris tar will continue to be unable to handle something that's been gzipped. I know, I know, use gtar, but c'mon....
      • iainc, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Tell me about it. First thing to install on Solaris -- the blastwave distribution.
  • JasonsLan, on 05/02/2008, -8/+7fire of lay off?
  • an10ae, on 05/02/2008, -16/+4Which 2500? Please say java devs. Not Ian Murdoch or the MySQL crew or the Jruby gang.
    • aidave, on 05/02/2008, -3/+2Yay, Java 64bit will never come out now.
  • Topher06, on 05/02/2008, -14/+8Wasn't there just a Digg submission today about how those embracing open source were riding the recession better? Guess thats just another open source myth.
    • Trixrox, on 05/02/2008, -4/+6I don't believe it, Microsoft and Apple are both posting huge quarterly earnings. They are pretty damn closed.
      • marx2k, on 05/02/2008, -0/+8"The computer software giant (Microsoft) reported a 11 percent profit decline on virtually flat revenue and said current quarter earnings would come in below analyst estimates. "

        http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/26/conte ...

        Check your facts
        • diggrnumber1, on 05/03/2008, -0/+2you had the entire internet before you to find your sources. but of all sources, you HAD to choose the official communist party news source of china. great job!

          they are right about microsoft. but either way, it still is probably one of the less reputable sources out there.
          • marx2k, on 05/03/2008, -0/+0It was the first article that popped up on news.google when searching for 'microsoft earnings' :) Besides, it's all syndicated.
    • iainc, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Maybe, but Sun just bought MySQL. It doesn't mean they're using it. They should be, but they're not.
  • docsimmons, on 05/02/2008, -8/+2Business News?
    • MtheoryX, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Industry News, to be specific.

      And, yes, it's relevant. Block the section if you don't care; no one will miss you.
  • Lnet, on 05/02/2008, -4/+38I hope the people that are working on open office dont get fired :(
    • 4UIDigg, on 05/03/2008, -0/+2seriously, which positions exactly are they laying off?
    • iainc, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Probably quite a lot of marketing and services people.
  • cubicledrone, on 05/02/2008, -3/+50Thousands more good jobs thrown overboard because of a slight decline. Don't we all feel better now?

    It wasn't that long ago that mass layoffs were never considered a routine cost-cutting measure. Back when adults were in charge of the companies they knew you can't have profits all the time. That's probably why 1960 America could kick the ***** out of 2008 America economically.

    Now let's all go to plastic mart and put some more of our neighbors out of work. We couldn't build a snack in this country if someone handed us a cracker and a bowl of guacamole.
    • mooseontheloose, on 05/02/2008, -2/+8What's the name of your company? I'd like to work there.
      • cubicledrone, on 05/02/2008, -1/+8Yeah a lot of people would like a real job. Unfortunately there aren't any.
      • randumbusername, on 05/02/2008, -1/+0me too. i hope there is on the job training.
  • sheebz, on 05/02/2008, -1/+22Not the best summary... $34 Million Loss... I wouldn't say thats HUGE. Seems pretty small for a big company like sun, and it looks like they're blaming it all on the MYSql acquisition.
    • jsully, on 05/02/2008, -0/+15Sun posted a 2 Billion dollar loss in the second quarter of 2003 - this is small potatoes.
  • aidave, on 05/02/2008, -5/+18Maybe they shouldnt have spent a billion dollars on MySQL.
    • ZebZ, on 05/02/2008, -2/+4Or maybe Wall Street is overreacting (thus making Sun's inept execs panic) by expecting a billion dollar buyout to pay immediate dividends.
  • ivandir, on 05/02/2008, -7/+3Sun is the blood of the corporate world. The economy is not just slowing down it's actually shrinking.
    • Tyr7BE, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2FTA: Sun's results suggest its fortunes are departing from some of other big tech companies, such as Google Inc. and International Business Machines Corp., each of which reported healthier sales and profits in their latest quarters.
  • cdbarlow, on 05/02/2008, -1/+10"Fire" is a very appropriate word for Sun.
    • xsquirrel378x, on 05/02/2008, -1/+5they are giving away sunfires as severance packages
      • yoshihama, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Isn't that called "adding insult to injury"?
  • al11588, on 05/02/2008, -15/+3hahahaha next is the open source Linux community then OSX developers to get a lay off. Microsoft will own majority of the market share like usual. Microsoft-FTW.
    • aidave, on 05/02/2008, -2/+12Wow you are laughing that ~2500 people will lose their jobs? Get some sympathy, fool.
      • al11588, on 05/02/2008, -10/+2I don't care i am rich bitch. hahahahaha.
      • RomeyRome, on 05/02/2008, -1/+6I don't give a *****. I just got laid off & got a new job (Unix Engineer) with a 25% pay increase in no time at all. There's jobs out there.
    • jpaolini, on 05/02/2008, -1/+8Can you stop commenting now al11588? Thanks.
    • ronaldst, on 05/02/2008, -6/+2Microsoft should buy Sun instead of Yahoo. Maybe then could MS put that Java and OpenOffice out of their misery.

      Mouhahaha.
    • marx2k, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/26/conte ...

      Yeah, Microsoft is doing spectacular
  • bincoder, on 05/02/2008, -0/+6my JRE has been crashing or otherwise messing up for the past 8 years. Updating to the newest versions during those years has done nothing whatsoever to change that in any way. Keep the good employees to correct that please, there is no reason that any software install should remain forever broken. Even Billy knows that.
    • WayOfTheIronPaw, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Most other people are running Java without problems. Could it be at all possible that the problem is with your OS or browser? Did you submit a bug report to Sun?
  • carfey, on 05/02/2008, -6/+1Dugg down. Not a huge loss, particularly when factoring in what Sun actually did that quarter to cause a loss (e.g MySQL).
    • kretik, on 05/02/2008, -0/+7I'm sure the people who lost their jobs agree with you.
  • warholsbluecat, on 05/02/2008, -2/+4DAMN YOU MOON! DAMN YOU TO HELL!
  • localzuk, on 05/02/2008, -1/+7Nah, this isn't a 'massive loss' in any way shape or form. It is a small loss for a company like Sun. They are just working through a rough patch. With their offerings in the server market (their blade system is very tasty), the thin client market (sun ray and sun global desktop are excellent), mysql, java, solaris etc... they are going to pull through and recover just fine.
  • gr00vy, on 05/02/2008, -3/+4Jeez, I hope that whole open office thing is an issue? Can't you live off free?
  • VacaN, on 05/02/2008, -1/+10Its OK I am #2501.
    • MtheoryX, on 05/02/2008, -0/+4I'm #2500, and I'm okay as well.

      They count from zero, ya know. Sorry #'s 0 through 2499, good luck to ya.
  • renemartini, on 05/02/2008, -0/+2Its funny just saw the news quoting Bush of saying job loss has decreased and actually stabilizing. I think thats gonna hurt when the media begins talking about Sun's lay offs.

    My theory is Open Office might either be like AOL with netscape, they just give it to the community due to financial backing. Never know Open Office can turn to something totally awesome.
  • BoonTobias, on 05/02/2008, -9/+3death to microsoft!
  • Meursault, on 05/02/2008, -4/+3Where's Scott McNealy and his Microsoft bashing now?
    • ronaldst, on 05/02/2008, -1/+3He just realised he wasted the many millions MS gave them. :D
  • LastDitchHero, on 05/02/2008, -1/+4Sun's always had some decent products but their execution, choices, and marketing have been disasters. They also do not stick to their core competencies like any successful company does and I don't think Sun even knows what they are competent at doing. One day management will turn around or else Sun will be bought for pennies on the dollar.
  • blipblopblip, on 05/02/2008, -0/+11Did "Sun Fire 2500" sound like a new server to anyone else?
    • spykez, on 05/02/2008, -2/+0No but at a glance it looked like the world would end in 500 years.
    • yodaj007, on 05/03/2008, -0/+3Sounds like a car or a really, really nice grill.
  • trollick, on 05/02/2008, -1/+18Paying a billion for MySQL was stupid. They could have just downloaded it for free.
  • mastication, on 05/02/2008, -1/+4At least they released the 1.6 JVM for OSX before the layoffs.
    • MtheoryX, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Sun didn't release that. Apple did.
      • mastication, on 05/03/2008, -0/+4Thanks for the correction. Dugg.
    • linkinpark342, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1And the java web plugin for 64-bit anything...
      oh wait a second...
  • saturnx8, on 05/02/2008, -6/+6hopefully they are all H1B visa employees that get fired.
    • aclevernickname, on 05/02/2008, -4/+3hopefully you are twelve years old, otherwise you are retarded.
  • tucsonwc, on 05/02/2008, -6/+2***** the RIAA.
  • leaknoil, on 05/02/2008, -1/+2I wondered why Sun was selling a mess of their new hardware in liquidation auctions all of a sudden. Must be trying to raise money anyway they can.
  • MrViklund, on 05/02/2008, -1/+7It will turn for SUN. I wish them the best. SUN is an amazing company.
    • TheSpook, on 05/03/2008, -1/+2They will do for MySQL what they did for Cobalt.
  • potterboy, on 05/02/2008, -0/+3Shame, but they will recover
    (Typed from Solaris Express Developer Edition)
  • sonicularulus, on 05/03/2008, -1/+2i thought the sun worked on its own.
  • itchie, on 05/03/2008, -1/+1I love how when these companies don't meet forecasts or impress investors enough they can their workforce. Yes, put more people out of work in this country, thats a great idea. Just don't replace them with some stupid turban, they aren't that great just willing to work cheaper.

    • LastDitchHero, on 05/03/2008, -0/+0No, Sun just really hasn't been up to snuff lately. They need to find what Sun is good at it and focus on that. Too many products without cohesion just creates a big mess. Even MS in it's entire hugeness knows what they are good at doing.
  • GrantRobertson, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Again, now that Rupert Murdock owns WSJ, I doubt anything that comes out of that heap of pulp.
  • RSS14, on 05/03/2008, -0/+4Good luck to the 2500 employees and their families; that's all I can say.
  • IronDonut, on 05/03/2008, -2/+5Honestly how is Sun still in business? You can get a lot more performance per $$$ out of a Dell or HP server. All that was good with Java/J2EE is better with .NET/C#.

    Whenever I make a visit to the data center I'm amazing at the numbers of Dell servers in the place. 90% of the servers in that place are Dell, most of the storage systems are EMC2. In fact it's actually hard to find a Sun server in the place.

    So if there aren't any Sun machines in a large commercial data center who is buying these things? Banks and the government?
    • LastDitchHero, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1If you look at their 10-K reports many of there sales are to G.E. and also G.E. sells a lot of Sun equipment.
    • syphonist, on 05/04/2008, -0/+1Just because you have not worked at a place with Sun equipment does not mean its not there.

      Out of the hundreds of servers I have managed over the years the Sun machines are the most reliable, least problematic ones. I have a couple of 220R's that have YEARS of uptime with nothing failing except a HD or two. We are also a big dell purchaser and I have to say... with them you really get what you pay for, cheap x86 thats it. As long as you plan for failure with your Dell's your set. But there are times that it makes sense to pay the upfront cost to get a machine that will lat for years and is easy to work on. My favorite Dell equipment has been the Tl4000 tape libraries... and they are just re-branded IBM libraries. I'm a Sun fan and anyone that has had to work on both Sun and Dells knows that Suns hardware is brilliant and they make the Sys admins life easy.
      • IronDonut, on 05/04/2008, -0/+0This is a big 22,000sq/ft commercial data center. They colo for hundreds of local companies. It's actually hard to find Sun hardware in the place. If hundreds of our local technology companies aren't using Sun that means it's a trend everywhere. The reality is if Sun hardware is less than 1% of this data center it's the same everywhere else. This is why they continue to lose money.

        We have several Dells that have been running in production for years as well. Relability isn't unique to Sun.
  • known, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Looks like SUN failed to promote Intrepreneurs...
  • deadnewton, on 05/07/2008, -0/+1good luck with their super memory hogging JRE
  •  

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