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61 Comments
- 0b501373, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31Yeah there has to be a back door.
I'd hate to be on the tech support team dealing with the.
"I forgot/lost my password/key" calls.. - Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31I'm not buying into this until after some petty criminal or terrorist is brought to court and they *can't* get to the data. Otherwise it's useless.
- 98acura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24next week on digg:
"Instructable on how to bypass seagate hardware encryption" - Feanor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Anyone have the Segate crack-all password yet??
- saqib, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Ever wondered how much overhead does software based encryption creates, see the performance impact benchmarks below:
http://www.xml-dev.com/blog/index.php?action=viewtopic&id=250
The Seagate drives have a chip that performs the crypto functions, so there is essentially NO performance impact. Hardware based encryption is awesome! :-)
http://www.full-disk-encryption.net - iluvatar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18I can see this being a big selling point for government laptops. But anyone who's actually worked in a government job will realize that this will just be another password people will write down on a sticky note right on their desk.
Moron encryption ... now THAT would be a revolutionary technology. - boscorelle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+17even if there is a slight performance hit -- having this on laptop drives would be excellent
- PopcornDave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19That's exactly right. Somehow I have this nagging feeling that Seagate is going to be able to crack their own technology. Even though the article says otherwise, how fast is someone going to reverse engineer the encryption chip -- oh wait, that's illegal isn't it?
Also, since this falls under encryption, are they going to be able to ship these drives out of the country? With encryption falling under munitions for customs laws, this could get interesting. - radu79, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18And hopefully the courts/government (in the US) won't be legally allowed to coerce you into giving the key (the 5th amendment). On the other hand, with the new law, they can legally torture you into giving them the key, if they label you as a terrorist.
- jcliff29, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Another article outlining these drives can be found at
http://www.infoworld.com/article/06/10/30/HNseagateagain_1.html
The drive is using 128-bit AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) encryption. In June 2003, the US Government announced that AES may be used for classified information up to "SECRET" level. "TOP SECRET" requires 192 or 256 bit key-lengths. - flameboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12@musntSurfatWork
By reading those 3 sentences, I can tell you don't know crap about computers. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11If they are smart they'll just ship a utility to do a low level format whenever you forget your password and need to set a new one.
- Topher06, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The encryption chip probably adds $1.50 per unit. What does it matter, its an excuse for Seagate to charge $500 for a hard drive instead of $80.
- jknight, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11On laptops I could see it being useful or in specialized places (military).
For average joe-user ...... the hell it would unleash upon tech support people everywhere would be frightening. - technique, on 10/12/2007, -0/+912345
- GlargTheKelfn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+71 word: smoothwall.
i have been using a linux firewall / router for years, and i never have probs with worms, hacks etc.
hell, im running it on a k6-200 w 96m ram.
the real prob is they don't say what encryption method they are using. unless it's published & dissected, it's crap. - squeevey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Question:
What happens when the hardrive "crashes" and I need to take it to a data retrieval center?
I hope they are able to then crack the encryption. - dilbertmouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I see your point. In that case, I'll just blank out my root password and turn off my firewall. Thanks for saving me some time. [/heavy sarcasm]
- pvtjohndoe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@Topher06
You have to keep in mind how much it cost them to develop and implement the encryption technology. Sure, the chip itself probably costs less than a dollar to manufacture, but it costs them millions to have people design that chip. Not to mention the people that oversee the production of the chip, the managers that manage the people that oversee the production of the chip, the supervisors who oversee the managers, etc.
Most companies are in the business of making profits. Naturally, they will charge more for the device than it costs to create it. - randomc0de, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Both do. Truecrypt will work on both, OS X has a proprietary "Bitlocker", and Linux has the cryptoloop interface. Both cryptoloop and Truecrypt are totally open and trustworthy. Seagate's solution may or may not actually encrypt the data, same with Bitlocker.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That's the kind of combination an idiot would put on his luggage...
- boscorelle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6basically it locks the hard drive at boot -- once you have booted it's fair game (unencrypted)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6You would restore that data from your daily backups, of course!
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Isn't hardware-level encryption just the first step toward giving groups like Microsoft, the RIAA and MPAA the ultimate power over customers?
We already know that they are planning to build machines that simply won't play your MP3s, movies, etc, unless you pay, and pay dearly, for the key that you will make regular payments on.
Stop paying 'protection' to the corporate mob, and all your software/music/movies become useless.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't an integrated hardware-based encryption render any cracking virtually impossible?
And forget about using software/digital programs you are not constantly paying for, playing by 'their rules'.
Seagate is leading the way to the final stage of complete control of the consumers by the monstrous corporations.
Now let's all bend over and say hello to our new daddy!
F**ing pigz! - aplusbi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The key phrase there is "given enough time." There are forms of encryption that would take longer than the universe will exist to exhaustively crack. The only way you'd break the encryption is if there is flaw that reduces/removes the keyspace or if P = NP.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hey, that IS the combination to my luggage!
- matx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6They dont need too, they just put the data onto another encrypted drive and the encryption key would work ;)
- bflfab, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Any rumors on how much cost this will add?
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'd trust a full volume encryption using TrueCrypt more. It has specific support for these cases.
Well used open source security software > new proprietary hardware using unknown algorithms. - Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's not hard if you have the key.
- tornpage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4This is will be a great step toward PC security (assuming, of course it's a secure design. I agree that it should be ripped apart and analyzed by specialists).
For the users that don't understand the technology, this is a brief introduction.
Most encryption deployment in the public sector is software based. Even if the algorithm (the cipher used) to encrypt the data is secure (i.e., the only known attack is brute-force, where every possible key is tried - a very lengthy and expensive process) your computer stores all kinds of info in RAM (password cache, the actual plaintext, etc.), and writes this data to the OS's swap file periodically (when you open a new application, minimize a program, etc.)
If your machine is stolen/confiscated and you have encrypted files, the fastest, cheapest way to retrieve the data is using a type of side-channel attack, where other data is analyzed (they parse the swap file, the hibernation file, core dumps, etc.) looking for the key and not the encrypted file specifically.
Hardware encryption encrypts EVERYTHING on drive. The encryption chip intercepts all data being written to the drive and encrypts it before the data is stored. Go ahead and still use encryption software to encrypt specific files if you want. You will still need to if you want to send encrypted files to someone. If your computer is stolen with hardware encryption in use, there will be no snooping through swap files looking for a key, since the entire contents (including swap/temp files) will be encrypted.
Hardware encryption will protect your machine from someone with actual physical access to it. This could be a co-worker, someone living with you, a government or private agency hell-bent on stealing your mothers chocolate-chip cookie recipe. - zbeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4See the bottom if this page.
Computer Corner
The Hard Disk “Security Mode Feature Set” #210
http://www.dea.gov/programs/forensicsci/microgram/mg0906/mg0906.html - dilbertmouse, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7@0b501373:
"I'd hate to be on the tech support team dealing with the "I forgot/lost my password/key" calls.."
I remember people saying this when SMART implemented password-based drive locking, but I've not heard of any incidents through my own tech support work. While I'm sure there were some, SMART implemented a built-in reset mechanism that would force the drive to be erased, along with the password. Given the same mechanism, I wouldn't see a problem from a tech support standpoint.
"Mr. CEO, your laptop is ready... No sir, your data is gone... Yes sir, my desk is packed." - raccettura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Unless we have evidence it's rock solid and no back door... it's worthless.
- exsst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I don't really understand this encryption..
Why doesn't ubuntu contain encryption for protection? .. what about OS X? - exsst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Thanks, does Truecrypt decrease performance much?
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4yeah...it will prevent snooping when your computer is turned off.
- matx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Who said it was being connected to the internet?
- exsst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4very good point.
- omnithought, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hmmm...I'm not familiar enough with how this tech works, but would it prevent unwanted snooping from RIAA and other sources?
- exsst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Read and it is not related to this. The "security mode feature set" does not apply to the new encryption, since the article you pointed out was most notable for ATA hard drives and it was introduced back in 1997.
This new plan is very different from the old one, from which is actually does encrypt the data on the disk, whereas the one you linked above does not, it only uses a password. - 0KonTroL0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2my dell notebook already does this, I have had it for 6+ months.......and I have to swipe my fingerprint.
- TJ09, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyone else notice on the software encryption benchmark that there's a correlation between the price of the software and the time increase, and not in the expected way.
- whoZatGuy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Does TrueCrypt decrease performance much?
Depends on your usage.
Lets say it doubles the speed of read/write cycles. They still take only a few milliseconds at most. Normal usage of documents, spreadsheets, etc you won't notice a difference at all. Trying to use TrueCrypt on a heavily loaded SQL server would be very noticable. Using it on swap space would be noticable but stupid, yet I've seen it done.
I've heard of people running MP3 servers from double or tripple TrueCrypt partitions and there is no noticable delay in a home server setup, even with hundreds of gigs ( 10,000+ songs). I'm told it does slow down the DVD playback, but I when I saw it running I didn't notice. I don't have a huge screen HD tv either so I wouldn't notice the lost detail myself. - dilbertmouse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Will someone tell me why he is being dug down? This seems like great info, unless it's innacurate.
- dilbertmouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While it's true that this doesn't apply to Seagate's (new?) scheme, it is a great read on ATA drive locking abilities. I was actually impressed at the thoroughness of ATA drive locking, although the vague reference to workarounds by large data recovery firms is a bit disturbing. Anyone know what they're doing?
Anyway, it's still a great read for those not familiar with ATA. - randomc0de, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@aplusbi
"The only way you'd break the encryption is if there is flaw that reduces/removes the keyspace or if P = NP"
Actually, there are forms of encryption that are completely unbreakable, even if P=NP. Look into completely random keys. - exsst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2But I think I'd like to clarify that yes, this is not good news, but consumers want to copy their music, their movies, so the online web services offering DRM'd media will loose sales which will force them to consider changing their business model using DRM.
The infortunate people will fall into the hole, but they'll soon catch on to it, and that's the main issue with DRM.. everyone is pretty much uninformed about it.. If they were, they might not be buying it in the first place. - gunny101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0AES supports 256bit key lengths and is current used in the government and major financial institutions for data encryption.
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1OMG it's Zbeast
...I remember you from Slyck.com
Great link...I liked the part about computers too.
Damn those fake pill makers! -
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