What is Digg?124 Comments
- pinnette, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11if you pay the $150 for termination, you arent getting anything for your money nickconfer.
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9What if instead of finding a roaming area, you just set your phone to use another carrier's network?
I could put my T-Mobile phone on Cingular's network right now, and it's not even a hack, it's a setting. - golovko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This sounds risky if for some reason one stumbles onto a carrier's tower that would subject minutes to roaming charges.
A more fullproof way:
Always read your bill entirely, look for ANY rate changes, ANY new service charges, etc. Your contact requires that your carrier notify you of ANY changes to the contracted plan you signed up for. This includes extra charges they will try to ***** you about by giving an official sounding name that implies some government ordained increase. Once this occurs you have their balls in a vice. Your contract should stipulate a 60-90 day period you have to decide if you want to continue or bail out w/o paying ETF.
Call up your carrier customer service. Stick to your guns here: they've introduced a new charge, they've notified you of it via your bill, and you are notifying them that you wish to cancel your service, and you understand you will not be liable for ETF. They'll stall, offer you *****, tell you its not actually true, its a charge that they have to levy by law, etc. etc. Just ride it out, try to talk to someone above them, reference your contract.
They'll let you out eventually. Verizon started a new universal administrative fee, or some bs like that back in August. Yes, it was only 40 cents, but it was a change to my contract. I called them up and over the course of 1-2 days, got out of my contract w/o ETF. - Pile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If you think these cell companies pay $200 for a phone, you're dreaming.
Even when they discount the phones, they still make money. Even when they give away a phone, they make money.
The truth is these cell companies deliberately obfusicate their calling plans and terms to confuse consumers. The plans are scientifically designed to extract the maximum amount of money from consumers for the minimum amount of resources. Some people who have lifestyles that do not match larger demographics make out better (such as people who work odd hours and can take advantage of free night calling) but generally, the companies are in the business of forcing you to accept an agreement that isn't always right for your or fair. I see nothing wrong with consumers doing the same thing: finding little ways to force the provider to compromise when it comes to raping you with phone charges, terms and service fees. - pacificdave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6sorry... but i don't see any "huge" discounts buddy. it's over priced to begin with and still over priced with the 2 year contract. Verizon and Sprint..... so creating an over priced termination fee is no excuse. maybe having to pay for an extra month after termination would work but 150+ is ridiculous.
- neoclerodane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I work for Cingular and most of what he said is true. The company doesn't want you to use more than 50% of your service while outside our coverage area. Cingular is now using a system that will automatically update the print on your screen to notify you if you're off cingulars network. This is to help customers realize that they might not be on cingular's coverage area.
Companys also realize that if they aren't going to see any money from you, they'll write you off. It all comes down to your payment history and how frequently your bills were paid etc... If all of a sudden a perfect credit customer starts ***** around and racks up a huge phone call/bill and refuses to pay it or the ETF, more than likely they will pursue you for doing so - you paid your bills in the past, why aren't you paying this one? If some trailer trash sack of ***** who was consistently not pay their bills etc and all of a sudden decides to ***** off without paying the ETF - is more likely to be written off.
That's how I imagine it works. - everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5stop signing up for services that last a year or longer if all you want is the free RAZR phone. I swear, if it's not credit cards it's phone contracts. people can't read the damn fine print.
- Flashman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Along with that home-abortion info on Boingboing yesterday, I'll never pay for another termination again!
- bigsurf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5what i did when i terminated sprint was to tell them that i was moving out of the country, showing proof with and airline ticket. another way is to move into an suburban area which is out of within their coverage but has "perpetually bad reception", contractually this is a way out that will get you off paying termination fees.
- MikeMacMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6These early termination fees aren't as evil as everyone thinks. That camera phone you got for free when you signed up, where do you think that came from? It wasn't free. Cell phone companies usually pay $100-200 of the cost of the phone when you sign up for a service plan. They expect to make this money back over the life of your contract.
If you cancel your agreement before 1-2 years they want that $100-200 they paid for the cell phone you have. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Why does everyone think early termination fees are robbery? - parker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4when living in madison, wi i could stand in my livingroom and be on the att network and then head to the kitchen and be roaming. the backyard didn't seem to like my phone at all.
- Hexabus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I have an easier trick to get you out of any telecom service contract including DSL. All you have to do is look up where they have coverage/service area, find a remote location that you know for sure they don't cover. Now call them up and inform them that you are moving to that location, because they don't offer there service there then you are not required to keep their service and as part of the contract they have to let you break your agreement and cannot charge you a cancellation fee. I have used this many times with companies such as: Sprint PCS, SBC DSL, T-Mobile. It is faster than having to wait three months and much easier than letting your phone sit on for 400 minutes a month while in a roaming location. Enjoy the social engineering hack.
- Grimgrin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Working as a Cingular CSR I can tell you a few things. One is that often credits are up to the rep's discretion. That means if you call in shouting and huffing and puffing and talking about lawyers and lawsuits, you are likely to get nothing but a note on your file saying "do not credit" then get laughed at once the call is over.
Here are Cingular's TOS
Some relevant parts:
"CHANGES TO TERMS AND RATES
We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding
your service at any time. We will provide you with notice of such changes (other
than changes to governmental fees, proportional charges for governmental mandates,
roamer rates or administrative charges) either in your monthly bill or separately."
It's true that you can cancel without ETF 30 days after a price hike shows up bill. However, this only applies to rate plans and Cingular almost never increases it's rates.
Also, getting canceled because of poor reception? Yeah, not so much.
"CINGULAR MAKES NO WARRANTY, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, SUITABILITY, OR PERFORMANCE REGARDING ANY SERVICES OR GOODS, AND IN NO EVENT SHALL CINGULAR BE LIABLE, WHETHER OR NOT DUE TO ITS OWN NEGLIGENCE"
...
"if your service is interrupted for 24 or more continuous hours by a cause within our control, we will issue you, upon request, a credit equal to a pro-rata adjustment of the monthly service fee for the time period your service was unavailable, not to exceed the monthly service fee. Our liability to you for service failures is limited solely to the credit set forth above"
Again, if you get a nice rep when calling in about problems with service, you might get canceled without ETF. Most of them will tell you to read your terms of service and do exactly nothing.
Finally
"You agree that, by entering into this Agreement, you and Cingular are waiving the right to a trial by jury." ... "You and Cingular agree that YOU AND CINGULAR MAY BRING CLAIMS AGAINST THE OTHER ONLY IN YOUR OR ITS INDIVIDUAL CAPACITY, and not as a plaintiff or class member in any purported class or representative proceeding."
Don't talk about suing Cingular. Don't claim to be a lawyer if your not. Just don't. It doesn't impress any CSR whose been on the phones for more than a month and makes it far less likely for you to get anywhere. - nickconfer, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8so you can screw them with 3 months of service at $50, or pay $150 and get out of the contract... hmmm seems like no real gain here. The thing is, this will all be history in a couple of years. As wireless coverage continues to expand and voip gains dominance, prices will fall big time.
- aakins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2less than $50.
The easiest way to NOT get a termination fee. Pay FULL price for that lovely phone that you want so bad. - parker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i moved out of the country and at&t wouldn't let me postpone my service even when i told them i'd sign a 2 year agreement starting the day i returned to the usa. maybe it's cause they knew cingular was buying them up but still, it sucked.
- Avengelist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I worked for ATT Wireless as a CSR, and when Cingular bought them, well, I left.
The brainwashing is slowly fading...
Just because they can cancel you, doesn't mean they will.
There are agreements in place between most of the carriers whereby they allow "x" number of competitor's roaming customers, if their competitor does the same. So there is not necessarily a loss of money.
There are a few small regional carriers that don't have agreements, and some of them are excluded from the "no roaming charges" clause in your plan. Check your TOS. If you roam excessively on one of those, you could pay up to $5.00 per minute, plus a daily connection fee. Go ahead, make your 401 minute Moviefone call...
I'll note that this info may be outdated. I don't know. I hate cellphones now. - aakins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't know what you guys are complaing about. I work for a small cell phone provider, and all I can say is that I have to pay full price for a phone. Granted it is only the company cost, but that's a hell of a lot more than FREE. I had to pay over $250 for a Motorola v505. Yea, its a good phone, but if I signed a contract I could get it for
- ssquire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I "might of" dugg this article, but my English teacher would've (note: not "would of") risen from her grave and bitch-slapped me
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I just told sprint I was moving to an area where they have no coverage and that per my contract I didn't have to pay the termination fee. They agreed, got my last bill this month with no fee on it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You'd have to do the math to be sure but I think you might be right
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dugg purely for the following:
"Oh yeh. This is for educational purposes only. Don't sue me Cingular.
I have been adjudicated mentally incapacitated in 49* different U.S. states so nothing I say can be taken seriously in a legal sense. That should be enough to protect me, right?" - Tarek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Now, if only we can find a similar way to have the phone carriers "gladly" unlock our cell phones.
They used to charge 200$ - 250$ here in Canada (Rogers, Fido,etc...) to unlock cell phones, and now they no longer do it, period!
What a ***** stupid thing to endure......
Europe is so far ahead of us in this freaking field. - Mike.ohara, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Some Companies will do something interesing,
When "They Cancel You" They still may charge the cancelation fee. check your fine print.
in some cases and specificly in cases in Canada, if they cancel you they will tack the appropriate fees on regardless of whether you canceled or they did. - hordak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Side Note: T-Mobile USA is the BEST cell provider I've ever been with. Best signal, best value ($40 1500 minutes + $5 unlimited GPRS per month), and best customer service. I understand that they used to REALLY SUCK in the past, but NOW, they just plain rock. Oh, and did I mention I only had a 1 year contract? These guys are great!
Because of all this goodness, I would never dream of screwing over T-Mobile unless they did something REALLY stupid to me. - roadkillrampage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I was a customer of AT&T Wireless since they began. Their customer service in my opinion was great! They gave me a new phone every year at no cost. When Cingular bought them it they started sucking! No new phone, long hold times. I was able to get a new phone, but I could only get it at a discount.
Well back in the middle of last year I had some service problems and after talking to many people there who had no clue I decided I was going to change carriers. I went with T-Mobile and ported my number which essentially can celled my service with cingular
A month later I get a bill from Cingular for an Early Termination Fee for can celling before my 2-year contract was up. I called them up and said I never agreed to a 2-year or any other contract. I told them if they can show me something in writing that I would be happy to pay. They transferred me to a bunch of other people and finally they said they would waive the fee. They even sent me something in writing saying that the fee was waived.
So..you might want to try this as well. If you don't remember signing a contract agreeing to 1 or more years tell them you want the proof. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@aakins
THANK YOU! People in Europe don't sign contracts, but guess what? They pay $400 for their V505's. It all evens out. - drw2583, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Stop acting like high and mighty pricks; his article is meant to help people who are willing to do it.
If you aren't willing to do it, you don't need to bother posting about how big of a "waste of your time" it is.
Get over yourselves. - supermanontheru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No Digg.
While factually true, actually inaccurate. Service prodivers don't get charged that much per minute. Not to mention, the amount it would cost (in time and money) to travel outside your service are for this to work would greatly overshadow the termination fee. On top of all of that, you just give the service provider the option to cancel, they still usually drag there feet for several more months. - crawfordbay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Phone companies are right up there with insurance scams. I got so screwed over by Nextel before, that my lawyer couldn't even get me out of paying the stupid cancellation fees ($400 on top of the $1500 I was scammed for just 2 months of service). I'm for anything with even a remote chance of cancelling without paying their termination fee. They make so much money off of you anyway, you shouldn't have to pay an early termination fee. Evil.
- scottevans, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3dugg, if only for the last paragraph of the article....mentally incapacitated in 49 states, except tx
- Ryokurin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@jkfan87 Roaming as in on someone Else's network which although hes roaming hes still on Cingular's network. I imagine unless you go out in the boonies somewhere to get away from a cingular tower it would be rather hard to roam off of their network nowadays.
Also I've been on Cingular around a year and every phone I've seen since will just display Cingular instead of whomever's network you are on. Allegedly they made it that way as the name change tended to confuse people. - twstd4lfe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11) Cingular 64k Sim Cards dont allow manual network selection without a seem edit on Motorola Phones
2) Cingular shuts off roaming in most areras on other GSM providers like T-Mobile where they have coverage
3) There is no option on Cingular phones or any GSM phones to go Roam Only, thats on CDMA so get your technology straight
4) No Flame but I cant stand it when people post crap information and people buy into it - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Since I work for the company I can tell you, this article is not in any way accurate - not even a little. As for the ETF, it serves a very real purpose. Without the ETF and a contract, that nice phone you just got for $50 would have cost you $300. I'm not a crusader for the wireless industry, but you do the math. Believe it or not, wireless companies do not make a profit on the cell phones they sell, they actually take a very substantial upfront loss - your contract makes up for it over time. If ETF fees and contracts aren't your cup o' tea - write your congressman. It's the cost of doing business in the wireless industry, which is very heavily regulated by the government. We can't sneeze without filling out 5 forms in duplicate and faxing it to the FCC.
- LCmidas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Digg this article http://digg.com/deals/Resellular_=_no_more_early_termination_fees_or_long_cell_phone_contracts instead, guys. "Online marketplace to post/pick-up remaining cell phone contracts"
In other words, you pay a one time fee of $8.99 and you can post your contract profile on Resellular for other people to take off your hands. It makes use of the "contract transfer" your provider offers. No making 500 min roaming calls. No termination fee. - Eclipse19, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Just a few little notes here
1. Yes the cellphone may be overpriced, but certainly not because of lack of technology. And, if they are overpriced, it is not by the carrier, but by the vendor. The carrier is simply trying to make the money back that it paid for the phone.
2. Typical roaming rates are not 69 cents per minute. Maybe back in the NAMPS days.........you're looking at more like 10 cents a minute + 5 cents toll
3. Wireless switches have a time limit set for long calls. Typically after 2.5hrs, the switch will end the call and you would have to re-establish the call. I have seen that set to as high as 4 hrs though. - samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@drunkjerkface
Verizon needs to be taken out behind the shed a while for restricting the features on their phones. In fact, they just lost a class action suit because they were advertising phones with Bluetooth and not disclosing that they'd crippled the Bluetooth functionality so that it really could only be used with headsets - no data transfer. Thankfully, Cingular hasn't done anything like this so far and I can sync my T616 with every computer in my house and transfer ring tones, etc... to it with no hassles. :) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, this is complete *****. Most cell providers charge you for roaming time even if the calls are made during your "free" minutes period. For instance, if I have free weekends, and make a roaming call on Saturday - BOOM! HEADSHOT! I get zapped at the roaming rate for the call on my bill.
This method sounds fun in theory, but doesn't actually work. - tavisjohn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"And this is also stupid...My god...isn't your free time WORTH anything to you? I for one can't imagine wasting 400 minutes a month (plus the travel time to get to a roaming area) to save some money. That is AT LEAST 25 hours to save $150.
Sorry, my time is worth more than $6 an hour. " - jkfan87
LMAO Have you ever heard of the OPTIONS menu on your cell? You can set your cell to "Provider network only", "Automatic", and "Roam Only". So you just place your cell on ROAM and sit back at your fav pub, or whatever, and talk! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"I might of dugg this article if the author could of written beyond a second grade level"
At which grade level did they teach you periods, macluvjay? - freonchill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2im sure that t-mobile loves me then. i got my fone @ home, but use it @ school 9-10 months a year, always roaming. i called them about it b/c they had some comments about it, and as long as i dont call outside "lower 48" states i dont get charged roaming... not like i call guam or puerto rico that often. so i guess they love me...
- hollowmedia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A colleague of mine had the same thing happen to him, but we both saw it as a positive. I have Cingular and recently moved to an area where it has no towers, so I do expect to get a similar letter before long.
- cathode, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Some others have wisely said... this is the biggest waste of time in history. just pay the cancellation fee and get to work
- dilbertmouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've sent one T-Mobile store rep and another T-Mobile phone rep running to their supervisors when I asked if I could see the terms of the agreement. It was as though no one had ever asked the question. What's worse, is that I felt like an idiot for asking, but why shouldn't I? Do people just blindly agree to these things?!
- jav1231, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This only works if your provider roams. Nationwide networks don't roam. Some carriers own the entire stretch so this wouldn't apply.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1frozendice said "Sprint has been nothing but ***** since I joined, so I really wish this applied to them. "
Same here. I've had Sprint for almost five months now and I've had serious problems with their service at least once EVERY month and had my phone shut off at least once EVERY month since I signed up. Initially, they had failed to apply my 20% business discount and double charged me (two bills for the first month).
Then, when I called up to tell them to cancel all the extra crap they forced me to take "free for the first month" when I didn't want it in the first place (and had to call to cancel it before they started charging me for it), they also shut off the one thing I DID want -- unlimited net access. So a week later, my phone service was shut off AGAIN, because I had racked up $400 worth of rated internet use - when it should have been free.
Then, I had to PAY that amount every time they overcharged me, because while the amount you 'owe' counts against your service instantly, it doesn't show up in their system until AFTER the billing cycle, which means the only way to get phone service is to pay them when they rape you and HOPE that they will take care of it later, when it does show up in their system.
Not to mention, every time I call them for support or billing, they complain about my phone reception and ask me if I have a landline I can call them from.
***** morons. - SweetsGreen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I have a AT&T (technically Cingular now) and used to use this phone at school where I was always roaming....I used 1000+ minutes a month on Cellular One's network and AT&T never bothered me.
- fffizzz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here is the coral cache link for anyone experiencing the digg effect..
http://roaminghack.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8080/ - beelz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Don't make a 5,000 minute roaming call just because you're mad at your wireless provider."
Lol cost them some real money. 4,999.31 - rawsteak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the question is, if they cancel you, do get to transfer your number to another company? I've got a few months left that I'm reluctantly paying because it's too much of a pain to switch your number and tell everyone else.
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