What is Digg?83 Comments
- AmateurX, on 10/11/2007, -1/+51I am SO NOT looking forward to the 10 clients I'll have to install to listen to my 10 internet radio stations.
- stealthboy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+41"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
- bmatherlyjr, on 10/11/2007, -0/+33it's a "screw-screw" situation; if they can't make people pay the higher rates in the form of royalties then they will just cram additional costs down your throat by making you lease some sort of DRM solution and trust me if you don't think they won't be making any kick back money from this plan of attack you are fooling yourselves.
- Sirocco, on 10/11/2007, -1/+32As usual, the DRM monster rears its ugly head. These people never learn.
- stealthboy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+30... and i'm sure all the required client players will be windoze-only. yay.
- meldroc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+26How much do you want to bet the RIAA is spending hundreds of thousands in bribes^H^H^H^H^H^H campaign contributions to our Congressional invertebrates to ensure they'll be able to shove this ***** down our throats and force us to smile afterwards.
- smartssa, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23Brilliant idea, since you know, broadcast radio has had DRM for like... never. ugh. idiots.
- JD52, on 10/11/2007, -0/+20Ever seen a human being turned inside out?
I suggest keeping an eye on the exec's at the RIAA.... If their heads get any further up their asses this will be the result. - darksheer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17Great thinking SoundExchange; because DRM has been so effective already.
Anyone now starting to see these rate hikes as really nothing more than a ploy to get the DRM issue on the table? - slider121, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19DRM won't work with this anyway. The audio has to go out the soundcard to the speakers right. Most sound cards will allow you to record whats going out to the speakers. Creative calls it "Whats being heard." When will they learn DRM is a waste of time and money. There will always be ways around it..
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16I say let them try.
If that is all they are worried about then why can one not listen any song as many times as they wish, or in any order they wish?
Clearly they want control of the music experience.
That is unreasonable. - vertinox, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16Simple Solution:
1. Make your own music.
2. Play it over internet radio or let someone else do it
3. Wait until the RIAA comes to collect fees...
4. ...and sue them for copyright infringement because of their claiming of ownership of your work.
5. ????
6. Profit! - goofballjm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13"SoundExchange has offered to cap the $500 per channel minimum fee at $50,000 per year for webcasters who agree to provide more detailed reporting of the music that they play and work to stop users from engaging in 'streamripping'—turning Internet radio performances into a digital music library," reads the statement."
What I don't get about all this is people (including myself) taped traditional radio onto cassette for years making mix tapes for virtually no cost. I have hundreds of freely aqcuired songs on cassette. Most MP3 streams are 128 kbps or lower, which isn't CD quality. Neither where any of my analog tape recordings off of FM radio. If I like the album, I am going to purchase it, because I want a higher quality sound, and I want the full song, not the transitions and radio spots that will show up on a recorded broadcast, either online or FM. I don't understand how they can punish the companies for freely promoting the music they profit from. Absolutely ridiculous. - DivisibleByZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10One of the ideas in DRM is to make it impossible to do that sort of thing. For example, the RIAA could strike a deal with Creative such that their protected content doesn't get recorded by these means, or has lower sound quality. Take a look at what they're doing with HDMI/HDCP for an example.
- Aero347, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Radio Fair Use act says that recording broad-casted radio is legal.
- Depthfunction, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Wait, did I miss something? I was under the impression that this net radio crisis was all about royalties and licensing and giving artists (read: RIAA member companies) their "fair share" of the net radio revenue pie. Now, all of a sudden, it's about DRM and pirating music. What does pirating music have to do with this issue?
- pdeco, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Because we all know how well DRM works.
- cquinnd, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9This shouldn't affect sites like Pandora, they already use a form of DRM on the streams they play. (Yes it can be hacked, but the point is they do it because they really are interested in giving royalties back to the actual artists, not just the middlemen).
If other sites adopted some form of DRM on music streams, much the same thing will happen as with Pandora. They will be able to say they are abiding by the agreement, but hackers and hacking tools will soon be available to work around the DRM for those who consider it an annoyance. - aliengoods, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8DRM adoption by internet radio means I'm going back to my MP3 collection. I'm not about to install 5 clients, all of which screw with my system. If the stations I listen to offer a non-DRM version for a small fee, I'll pay it. Otherwise I'll be gone.
- CompIsMyRx, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9No, it'd be a pain the the vagina. If you know a woman with an ass-hymen, they need to see a doctor immediately.
- MLBudToo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9DRM is the CD hymen of the internet. It's a pain in the ass and might stick to the packaging, but eventually you find a way to take it off. Someday there will come a time when they realize DRM simply does not work, but that someday is still a ways away. Until then, they'll try their hardest to keep it going, because "this time we found a solution that works."
- hiphoplsr, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7this is pointless.... i have always said DRM does NOTHING!!!! take the outputs that go to your speakers. plug them into your audio inputs. hit record before you hit play.
you have just circumvented drm.... - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8maybe if soundexhange actually paid the artists in a fair and proper manner I would be inclined to be on their side, but they are Crooks and Liars!
- Optic7, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7This would be just... outrageous if they really require DRM for net radio. It would probably mean only Windows users would be able to listen to internet radio. Maybe Mac as well in some cases. You know, I'm not one to usually pirate music, but when they pull this kind of crap they make me want to do it just to ***** with them.
- vastrightwing, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Nothing like being paid over and over for something you did years and years ago.
- davotoula, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I just had to log in to dig up your comment!
- info, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Sadly, this is nothing new... look at this from April 2006...
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060426-6679.html
:-( - vastrightwing, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4The music industry is one of the few jobs where you perform something one time and get paid over and over.
- nicepants, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4As long as internet radio is audible to human ears & microphones, DRM will never prevent something from being copied.
- DivisibleByZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3For lots of people, myself included, 128KB is fine. FM radio played via a cassette tape however? Too noisy and too much work in my opinion. They're probably banking on the assumption that most people feel the same way.
- db113456, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4How Naive can you get ?
- Thepirateking, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3That's wonderful. But it would be nice if say..I could listen to Pandora, what with not living in the states. I'm more interested in the stations I can listen to. Last FM isn't a great solution, sometimes I just want a radio station.
Oh well I guess it's back to CBC - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Personally I would not be happy with the quality I get from pandora for my personal collection. I like CD quality rips.
- dsanonline, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It's an arms race. And nobody is going to win. This isn't anything new, really.
- Smuikas, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Once everyone adopts Vista this won't be an issue. One of the requirements for Vista audio drivers is that any 'protected' stream is encrypted right up until it's sent to the sound card - this means no software hooks to get an unencrypted audio stream. Another side effect of this requirement is that if you listen to audio flagged as 'protected,' you MUST use digital-out. There is no analog hook anywhere, except the wire out to your speakers from your amp. Expect sound quality to be lessened as well.
- Novagenesis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Don't know why Aero is being dugg..that's a fact.
The truth is, DRM is critical to the recording industry because it gives them an option to fight back against Fair Use which they IMAGINE costs them serious profits...
The truth is, nobody knows what the profits are, but I have no doubt less than 10% of "fair use" pirated songs would ever end up purchased - init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"What I don't get about all this is people (including myself) taped traditional radio onto cassette for years making mix tapes for virtually no cost. I have hundreds of freely aqcuired songs on cassette."
The difference is that streamrippers can be left on for days or weeks, nicely chopping the stream into songs and even naming them automatically. I sometimes do that myself (that is legal in this country), which has allowed me to build quite a nice music library without going to The Pirate Bay et al. - rocketdog7, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4they could limit sound quality but thats not drm. as long as it comes out analog, which it would have to for us to actually hear it, we can record it. hmmm, line out to line in with a stereo mini cord, open garage band, press record and presto! even if they used programming to lock down the recording function while streaming you could use a second computer. good old analog :)
- Dracker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The problem with that is the problem with DRM itself: The attacker and the recipient are the same person.
Open source DRM = key is in plain view. The "security" DRM provides is security through obscurity, and an open source DRM solution removes even that. - Toast1185, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Someone should make that a T-shirt...and then let me buy it.
Change Tarkin to RIAA natch.
BTW, has this happened to anyone. I tried to post, and it seemed to go through, but then I went away from the page and came back and my comment disappeared. It says there are two replies in this thread, but I only see the one above me, not my other (should have been posted) one. I would like to know if I am double posting or if digg comments are fraked. - init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The RIAA's wet dream is to be able to project the sounds directly into your head in encrypted form, with an implant doing the decryption. Just so that you couldn't record their preciousss music.
- crappylinks, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I don't think they care about "control of the music experience" as much as squeezing every possible penny into their pockets. If they could magically extract money from you every time you played (or even listened to) a song, they would not give a damn about the ordering of the tunes or any other "control."
- init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3DRM can be used to control (read: eliminate) other aspects that aren't strictly illegal, but still disliked by music companies. One such aspect is the recording of broadcasts, which the DRM client could simply refuse. You ether listen to the content when broadcast or not at all, or at least pay money to play it when you want.
To think that DRM is just meant to stop piracy is naive. - rm999, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It's not really a joke, because it will still make things inconvenient for everyone involved. Cracking DRM is much worse than no DRM in the first place.
- init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3No, I wouldn't.
Here is the problem: If I didn't rip the stream (or listen to the stream live), I wouldn't hear a lot of great new music, so how could I buy it? But since I already have it, why buy it again when most of the price goes to the worthless middle-men and the RIAA/IFPI. I don't want to support the mafia(a).
If I just had the option of listening to the webcast, I could find new music, but to buy it would still not be an option, since we still have the "I don't want to support the MAFIAA" problem. Anyway, even if I didn't consider that a problem, only at most a tenth of the played tracks would be worth paying for. - init100, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Don't confuse DRM with ordinary encryption products, they are not the same thing. Ordinary encryption software benefits from being open source, while "open source DRM" is an oxymoron. This is because DRM works by providing both the encrypted data and the key, but obfuscating the key so that no average Joe know where to look. If the source was available, anyone could "fix" the application to save the unencrypted data on disk directly, or at least leak the encryption key.
Ordinary encryption programs do not work in this manner. They use encryption to secure information, but not from the recipient*, but from unauthorized third parties. Then no obfuscation is needed, because both the sender and the receiver are meant to have access to the unencrypted data, and thus have access to the key(s).
*= The general case has a sender and a recipient. Special cases, such as disk encryption software, usually have the same sender and recipient. This detail does not change the above argument. - HSChronic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2you talk to most DJs and they will tell you that they don't mind people ripping their live sets and radio shows. You look at DJs like Armin van Buuren, Markus Schulz, and most of the DJs in the top 10 in the world, they all have radio shows. Before these shows were broadcast on internet radio (DI.FM and places like that) they were only broadcast in their home countries. For a long time A State of Trance was only available in the Netherlands, for a long time Armin said he liked the fact that people traded his live sets and radio shows. This made him as big as he is today throughout the world, if it wasn't for stream ripping and distribution then a lot of unknowns would still be out there and never get noticed.
- bjornski, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Actually, SoundExchange has been given the right to collect royalties even on artists they don't represent, and those that demand they do not collect royalties.
Talk about extortion. Government blessed, too. - mousky, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2But here is the millon dollar question: if you were unable to streamrip would you be buying the music? The RIAA seems to think every illegal download or rip is a bona fide lost sale.
- FlatCatInAHole, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2The funny thing is, I never stream ripped because I listened to internet radio and didn't need it. Only when they threatened to shut down internet radio did I think it necessary to start recording it in case it disappeared. Thanks Sound Exchange for motivating me to learn how to rip.
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