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412 Comments
- ani625, on 07/10/2009, -10/+495Down with IE6!
- sleepwalker, on 07/10/2009, -4/+284The more major websites that drop IE6 support the better! Thank you digg
- rocketman42, on 07/10/2009, -6/+257I can't believe that 7% prefer IE6 over any other browser out there.
- trammell, on 07/10/2009, -1/+212Good question, Alex. It will allow us to adopt new technologies more quickly and spend more of our time focusing on modern browsers. So, yes. :-)
- asadotzler, on 07/10/2009, -6/+191Perhaps you could offer a "Have you considered Portable Firefox for surfing at work?" upgrade notice. This would be a reasonable middle ground and a lot less frustrating than asking them to perform an upgrade they can't. Firefox on a USB key is a convenient way to work around the problem of slow upgrades in enterprises.
http://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_port ... - YesImAChick, on 07/10/2009, -1/+140I think that's the point, dropping IE6 support would give them time to focus on other bigger better things.
- alexmuller, on 07/10/2009, -4/+134Would we (the, um, Firefox/Safari/whatever-loving geeks) get any benefit at all from you guys dropping IE6 support... I'm thinking speed increases, anything like that?
- Chewie67, on 07/10/2009, -6/+128Those 24% at the bottom of the "Why don't you upgrade" chart need to be taken out back and shot:
I don’t feel a need to upgrade. 17%
I prefer IE6 to other browsers. 7%
The only way we rid ourselves of IE6 is to cut the cord. Leave IE6 behind, and stop trying to cater to it. Don't even make the side degrade nicely. Simply show a page that says "Your browser is too old, and too insecure to be useful. If you wish to view this site, you must upgrade".
Every business complains that if they turn their back on IE6, they'll lose business. I see the reverse. If enough major sites turn their back on IE6, those folks (and their employers) will be forced to upgrade. When Google, Yahoo, Amazon, CNN and every other major site doesn't work, these businesses that still run IE6 will be FORCED to stop being lazy, upgrade their systems, and join the rest of us in the 21st century.
The sheer amount of hours and dollars wasted on IE6 compatibility is ludicrous. CUT THE CORD. - MtheoryX, on 07/10/2009, -1/+104I know they say you're not dropping support tomorrow... but if you did, it would bring a smile to my face.
- jnuffnuffnomnom, on 07/10/2009, -13/+114will it run Crysis?
- xenow, on 07/10/2009, -1/+938 years is more than enough time to upgrade, drop support already IMHO.
- vardhan, on 07/10/2009, -1/+89As a developer, I too fret too much over compatibility with IE6.
I think dropping IE6 would be a step forward. It will not only allow Digg to concentrate on modern browsers, but it'll contribute to the shift towards newer browsers, however small it may be. It has to start somewhere.
justdoit. - Danners, on 07/10/2009, -0/+81We finally got an upgrade at work last month from IE6 to IE7, after a year long pilot. It's so frustrating how long it takes and how many hoops you have to jump through to upgrade 1 piece of software.
- YesImAChick, on 07/10/2009, -0/+72The hospital my mom works for in NY just upgraded from Windows 95' a short bit ago, maybe even last year. It's scary out there.
- DeathfireD, on 07/10/2009, -0/+65They're better off just making a water down version (similar to a mobile web page) of digg that just shows the story's and nothing else. Then direct all the IE6 users to that. This way all IE6 hacks on the real site can be removed and progress can be made.
- UV0001, on 07/10/2009, -4/+64Yeah, just drop IE6 altogether.
1. If you're browsing at work, you shouldn't be using company resources for personal use.
2. If you're using an old version of windows, get a different browser.
3. If you don't have administrator rights, see number 1 since you should have admin rights or know who does if you're at home.
4. If you don't feel the need to upgrade, then you also don't feel the need to be on digg.
5. If you prefer IE6 then you don't deserve to be on digg. - zacman85, on 07/10/2009, -1/+54I think the flip argument needs to be considered. Should we, with a vested interest in our users' experiences, stand idly by while 85+% of our users are having a slower, lower quality experience? I think it is unfair to call this a sadistic endeavor, especially when you consider the impact on revenue. Front-end latency is a significantly under-appreciated variable in generating revenue. With each drop in percentage of IE6 users, we approach an inflection point where the cost of supporting IE6 users will be outweighed by the gains to the rest of users when support is dropped. I suggest that we are closer to this inflection point than many are willing to consider.
- xeomage, on 07/10/2009, -1/+43Please don't call them system-admin-nazis. Most of them would like nothing more than to give you IE8, Firefox, Chrome, or whatever you want, but because some internal web application uses ActiveX, isn't compatible with (or supported by the vendor on) IE7 or another browser, their hands are tied.
In addition, since they likely have to make sure all software has the latest security patches, non-Microsoft software is not preferred since it usually means you have to push out updates differently. Having more than one browser means that much more testing, updating, and work.
System admins have to make sure that all the software on your computer works together. If you change your default browser, half a dozen things may no longer function correctly. When you install software off the Internet, you're introducing all kinds of variables they can't account for. When things break, they get chewed out for it.
It's may be easier to think they're just malicious and trying to spoil your fun, but usually they aren't. That's not to say there isn't the occasional ***** on a power trip, but that's not unique to IT.
I'm glad you get to work in a small company where you have the freedom to do what you want, but people tend to forget it isn't their computer; it's the company's. - hadiz, on 07/10/2009, -0/+41IE6 is a major thorn in my side as well. I'm continually running into problems supporting it on some of the pages I create. Not only that, but it's difficult to test, since windows update practically forces IE 8 on you.
- Chewie67, on 07/10/2009, -0/+40And yet, millions of people seem to find ways to avoid upgrading.
- Frostek, on 07/10/2009, -0/+40Hopefully they didn't upgrade to Windows ME...
- argash, on 07/10/2009, -1/+40I used to do it all the time at my old job. My wife's work locks her stuff down really tight so I gave her a USB key with the full portableapps.com suite to take to work with her and she uses it all day long. Her IT dept said it's cool as long as she doesn't install anything.
- rmxz, on 07/10/2009, -1/+37I'm guessing they're people (or IT admins at workplaces) who have never had any reason to upgrade. If sites start saying "please upgrade, we'll stop supporting IE6 soon" I imagine many of them will.
- crash013, on 07/10/2009, -1/+36Develop Digg so that it's compliant with web standards and optimized for the modern browsers. Don't block IE6 but just have a little banner message at the top saying that it is no longer supported and may not display or work well with Digg anymore.
- pixelguru, on 07/10/2009, -0/+34This is great news. If more major sites like Digg dropped IE6 support, it would help medium and small site developers justify being able to do the same. Start that ball rolling!
- spect3r, on 07/10/2009, -3/+37^ Yes!
- Chewie67, on 07/10/2009, -2/+34One word: WRONG
At some point, we need to draw a line in the sand.
- IE6 is broken.
- IE6 does not adhere to standards.
- IE6 is not secure.
The degrade gracefully strategy has not worked. IE7 was released nearly 3 years ago, yet we still have a (relatively) high percentage of people running IE6. Time to turn up the heat. - dburka, on 07/10/2009, -1/+32Asa, do people get in trouble for doing that kind of thing? Do you guys at Mozilla have much insight into how this is received in enterprises?
- kevinmoore, on 07/10/2009, -2/+32Read the article.
- dburka, on 07/10/2009, -3/+33This is the point Mark was trying to dispel with his blog post. See the graphs in the post: IE6 is still sizable and we found that most Digg users who use IE6 cannot upgrade. It's not that people are dumb, lazy, or ambivalent... they literally have no control over their browser for various reasons.
- Skurt, on 07/10/2009, -0/+29Good idea, all IE6 users could be bounced to http://m.digg.com. They could read but not comment etc.
- OutThere, on 07/10/2009, -2/+29My concern is corprate users, not home users. Many corprate users (I immagine) are stuck with IE6 (or worse) and have no option to upgrade or switch. (of course, if one follows your sugestion, it would put pressure on corprate IT to upgrade, but it wouldnt be a quick thing.)
- asadotzler, on 07/10/2009, -0/+26Daniel, I suspect that the only insight we have is the download numbers of Portable Firefox (~10,000,000 downloads, probably 30-40% of those resulting in regular users.)
There aren't many reasons I can think of to use something like Portable Firefox outside of needing to supplement the locally installed browser so I'm guessing that most use cases for PF are precisely to get around "no downloading / installing un(by us)supported software" policies. There's been strong update in Education (calling that out in case it's not what people traditionally think of as "enterprise")
One other bit of insight I can offer is this: It is "Mozilla Firefox®, Portable Edition" and not "Portable browser based on Mozilla technology" which means we've explicitly OK'd it and I'm sure our biz folks thought about this and decided it wasn't a major threat to our brand to support it.
We're pretty careful about both the Mozilla and Firefox brands and if we thought encouraging people to use a portable version of Firefox would damage our brands we would not have worked with John Haller to make this a branded product. - NathanLoehlein, on 07/27/2009, -1/+27Thank you.
Someone needs to take the plunge. Granted, Digg is not Amazon nor Google, and has more of a tech-audience focus than a mainstream audience, but having such a large community drop support would be a large step in the right direction.
What really gets me is workplaces sometimes won't let their users upgrade because they use some crappy in-house, proprietary software developed 7 years ago that only runs in IE6, and so they make every web designer everywhere suffer and waste thousands (millions?) of hours trying to support it because they can't bring their software into the 21st century. - jeffgtr, on 07/10/2009, -0/+25My vote. Don't waste any more time on IE6 support, use that time for something else. In a way by supporting it you are an enabler.
- orgazmo, on 07/10/2009, -2/+27Only shows how many retards have no clue how the world of big corporations really works
- HelAom, on 07/10/2009, -18/+43for the love of god... if they insist on using IE, at least tell them to upgrade to IE8
- chadsmith729, on 07/10/2009, -1/+24The company I work for already started posting messages on some of our newer sites about how IE6 is not supported and any problems are with the browser being 8 years old, and we recommend IE7 or IE8 as alternatives if they want to stay in the IE family. However, we have FireFox and Google Chrome logos there with links to their downloads too.
- trammell, on 07/10/2009, -0/+23Yes, it should. Had you said "This should be a question." instead, that would be a statement.
But seriously, 10% of visitors means about 4 million people per month. Changing the Web experience for that many people should be done with meaningful consideration. - wbkang, on 07/10/2009, -0/+23@sexybobo: It's called Group Policy.
If you work at places where there are more than 10 desktops, you will see group policy locking up your usb port so you can't use external applications at all.. - Chewie67, on 07/10/2009, -1/+24Nice work.
Now you're only 1 version behind.
Better get started on that pilot. IE9 will be here any year now. - xaeon, on 07/10/2009, -3/+25That's the beauty of working at a small company. I'm running the Windows 7 RC on my work computer at the moment, with essentially whatever software I wish.
Not bragging or anything; just I find the work environments of small companies far more enjoyable as an employee. I'd hate having some system-admin-nazi telling me to use IE6 or Windows XP or whichever software they decide is appropriate to use. - bbtrev, on 07/10/2009, -6/+28Down with IE. !
- Wrathernaut, on 07/10/2009, -2/+247% of the 10% of diggers WHO USE IE6 (and are willing to fill out the survey).
So that's 0.7% of people (willing to fill out the survey) out there prefer it. - friday04, on 07/10/2009, -0/+22I don't think any site should actively block any browser. But not supporting a browser is not the same as blocking that browser. And this blog post used both words and I don't know which way they're heading. If they're just going to stop caring if it works or what it looks like, I'm all for that. But if they're going to block the browser, I think that's wrong.
- zephc, on 07/11/2009, -0/+22Up with skirts, down with panties!
- trammell, on 07/10/2009, -0/+21Noted. :-)
- trammell, on 07/10/2009, -0/+21I should clarify something, zacman. I'm not saying shifting focus away from ancient browsers is sadistic; I am suggesting giving people a message to upgrade when they have no ability to do so and their broader Web experience is already so crappy isn't going to help anyone. In fact, it's simply frustrating.
That said, you make an excellent point. Dugg. Thanks and keep digging!
Slainte,
Trammell - defectDS, on 07/10/2009, -0/+21Up with bubbles! Down with air!
...this reference will entertain no one but myself. - starslab, on 07/10/2009, -2/+22Remember that's 7% of people currently using IE6, which was only what, 5% - 10% of visitors/total browsing?
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