What is Digg?159 Comments
- laplacian, on 10/12/2007, -7/+68Big Hassle: AOL, BlueMountain.com, Classmates.com, ESPN, MSN Internet, Napster.com, NetZero (Hall of Shame), Real Rhapsody, Real SuperPass, True.com
Some Hassle: EarthLink, Equifax Credit Watch Gold, Flickr.com, GameSpy Arcade, MLB, Netflix, RapidFax
No Hassle: Ancestry.com, Audible.com, Consumer Reports Online, Ediets.com, GameFly.com, GotoMyPC, Match.com, Mvelopes.com, Reservation Rewards, Salon.com, Stamps.com, The New York Times TimesSelect, The Wall Street Journal, Vonage, Vongo - jav1231, on 10/12/2007, -0/+57This is awesome. Now that this has garnered some publicity, people know who to avoid.
- mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -1/+55This gets my blood boiling just reading this. The author of this article deserves a vacation after dealing with these companies customer service bs.
Big digg. - thenet411, on 10/12/2007, -0/+53This piece of the true.com TOS should be the biggest outrage. We all really need to band together to call them out on this one:
"I also found a section of the TOS contract that read: "You also agree not to dispute any authorized charge by True.com or its authorized agents." And "if you fraudulent[ly] report that an authorized charge by True.com or its authorized agents is unauthorized, you shall be liable to True.com for liquidated damages of One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) per incident." - adam192, on 10/12/2007, -3/+56You actually have to read the article to see how bad some of these sites are... e.g:
'I had a hard time canceling my $5 monthly Gold Classmates.com account, too. I couldn't find any information on how to cancel until I entered the word cancel In the site's search engine. Classmates.com spokesperson John Uppendahl confirmed that there is no other way to find cancellation information. But that was only the first hoop I had to jump through to cancel my membership.
Classmates.com also forced me to click through several Web pages reminding me of the benefits I'd lose. Finally my clicking ended at a generic Member Support e-mail contact page containing a blank 'Your Question' field. Though the form said nothing about cancellations, I used it to request that the service cancel my subscription. The next day I received an e-mail message confirming that the service had accepted my request.
When I asked Uppendahl why canceling my account took so many steps, he replied that this was the way that Classmates.com handled cancellations. He declined to answer further questions.' - ScottMaximus1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+35I agree 100 percent on MySpace. They start pulling ***** moves like switching the location of GO and BACK buttons between each(there are many) cancellation pages.
- profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29Dugg for linking to the printable version. Good call.
Oh, and dugg for being a cool article :) It really is a wonder that anyone can get away with this in the age of "the customer is always right." And I know it probably wouldn't have *really* been worth the time, but I think he should have kept pressing to get his money back from NetZero - I'm curious to see how long it would actually have taken. - fewaters, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21I am a supervisor at AOL and I can attest to the evils of the cancellations departments :O
For one, our 90 Day Risk Free Trial disc has: "No Credit Card Required! 90 DAY Risk Free TRIAL"
it makes the average person think they're getting 3months of free internet, while in reality, risk free means exactly the same thing as money-back guarantee. Sure, it doesn't need a Credit Card, cuz it would charge you on either your checkin account or Phone Bill instead. A lot of people don't even realize they got charged till they're into their 2nd or 3rd month of service, and a lot of the times the evil bank overdraft fees hit them like hell (see related article somewhere on digg). I once spent over an hour and a half with someone who got bankrupt over the $30.90 for the month of overpriced dial-up we charged her, plus the $100++ bank overdraft fees - and she had to wait 2-3months for her $30.90 to be reimbursed, I really couldn't do anything else. At least she got it better than other members who are already out of their 90day period when they realize they got charged, that way, they don't get a cent, regardless if they just installed it and never used the service.
If you cancel your AOL account and get routed to India, expect a scam (nothing against Indians, but I'm just speaking from what I've seen). Sometimes they don't even open or pull up an account and just tell the member that they have already cancelled (that way the call can't be traced to them). Other times when the account is automatically pulled up (through the 30minute IVR-from-hell system or through the phone number), they sometimes don't cancel the account, they can give you a cancellation number, but they don't cancel your account. They give you one free month though (so that on your next statement, there is no charge, after that you think the account is cancelled and start ignoring your statements, but nooooo, there will be our overpriced dial up service of $25.90 (most likely) every month till kingdom come), I've had guys calling us up two years after they thought the account was cancelled. No notes on the account, no refund, and when we do refund, it's usually just up to 3 months and we give you the forsaken address of our Billing headquarters who will just send you a letter saying that the charges are valid or something like that...
Another AOL scam is how it is pre-installed on some PCs, mostly by employees of where you buy the PC (they're the ones who put in your credit card info, the same one used to buy the PC!!!), and you aren't even aware of an account, once again, no refund; you saw the 6month free icon on your PC, and you didn't call to cancel, you're screwed! - Calabahn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Your account is still in an in-active state. You can log into your account information and change it on the Sirius site, That's what I did when I kept getting those robo calls. I entered their phone number so that they call their own customer service line.
- KSUdesigner, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19True.com is a real pain in the ass to cancel. I signed up for the free trial a while ago and then tried to find a place to cancel on their site. There's a button that says "cancel my subscription" but when you click that you get a page that says "stay with us and get 7 days free" and below that a link that says "no thanks, cancel my subscription." When you click cancel from there you get:
"Are you sure you want to cancel?
If you've found that special someone, congratulations! If not, be sure you take the TRUE Compatibility Test™. Endorsed by Psychology Today, it's the only truly scientifically based compatibility test online that considers each of the 99 key relationship factors to help you find your most compatible match.
If you still want to cancel, please speak with a TRUE Customer Care representative from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday through Friday and 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Saturday through Sunday central standard time toll free at 1.866.583.8783 or, for international callers, (1)972.402.4802 (toll charges will apply)."
So I called them to cancel. After being on hold forever I got a woman who said she would gladly cancel my account. However she did NOT cancel the account. As I was about to hang up she said "all subscribers who wish to cancel receive a month of service for free. You will need to call back in a month to fully cancel your subscription." Stuff like this is ridiculous. While I appreciate a month free, more than likely I'll forget by then and end up getting charged. Then I'll call to cancel and they'll repeat the process. All these places need to have an easy, hassle-free way to cancel your account DIRECTLY ON THEIR SITE. If I can sign up for service from the site without speaking to them on the phone, then why can't I cancel that way? - aahpandasrun, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22Xbox Live Gold is difficult to cancel if you're on the monthly subscription. The only way to do it is to call a number which transfers you to the Saves Department where they try to convince you not to cancel.
- tomatogirl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16And who decides if your report was "fraudulent"? True.com? No thanks.
- milomilomilo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I may be a little fuzzy on my business law but from what I remember, regardless of whether you agree to a TOS, you cannot be held to a contract that breaks any laws and takes away your right as a consumer.
Just because you click "agree" to something claiming you relinquish all rights, does not mean it has any legal standing. - profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Agreed. True it says that it's only if you do it "fraudulently", but still, if you are _found_ to have fraudulently reported it, then it reeks of extortion. Not cool.
- Wikki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14I had the additional fun with MLB that after canceling my service, a few weeks before the season started the following year I received an email telling me about all of the new features MLB.TV would have in the coming season. I wrote the email off as a typical "Come back to us!" offer and junked it. A few days later a charge appeared on my CC from MLB for the cost of a season of MLB.TV. At this point I went and checked the email they sent me and in the bottom in smaller lighter text was a paragraph telling me that seeing they had my CC on file they were going to sign me up for the season unless I emailed them back informing them not too.
I disputed and won the charge to my CC. - Stonedonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14"As I was about to hang up she said "all subscribers who wish to cancel receive a month of service for free. You will need to call back in a month to fully cancel your subscription.""
That's when you want to escalate to their supervisor, in my experience. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13My usual strategy is to say that my nephew "borrowed" my credit card, then go on a rant about what a little ***** that kid is and how my sister's a ***** parent and an idiot for marrying that loser. They get pretty eager to stop my bitching.
- mypancakes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I had the exact experience he describes with MLB.com. These companies should be completely blacklisted. Making money by lying is what gives capitalism a bad name.
- mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11After canceling Sirius Satellite Radio a year ago, they STILL call my house about once a month with a recorded message asking me to "sign back up". I've waited on the line several times and spoke to a representative and asked them to remove my name from their list. I still get calls.
- 8ight, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12aahpandasrun mentioned Xbox Live gold monthly being a pain... but let me tell you a story about Xbox Live gold for a year and a mom buying it for her high school aged son for his birthday.
A co-worker of mine had me come over and help her with getting her sons 360 connected to their network and on Live. Everything went fine until we got to the credit card. We got the American Express card entered and charged the $50 okay. Informing her that her son could buy anything from the marketplace with her credit card she decided it was a good idea to delete the card from the profile. We struggled for about an hour trying to get the card removed or at the very least password protecting the ability to charge stuff via the parental controls. We gave up and called Xbox Live support.
The customer service lady informed me that we are not able to remove any billing information off of the Xbox Live profile once it's entered. So I questioned her that in twenty years I could potentially have multiple dead credit cards listed on my own profile every time I get a new numbered issued to me when the old one expires? Her answer was yes. So what has happened, and what the Live customer service rep is telling me is that her son now has access to her credit card to buy anything from the Live marketplace... and there is no way to get rid of that. Her solution was to create a new gamertag and purchase the Live service via a Xbox Live card at Wal-Mart or some other local store (she did offer a refund to the American Express). I said that's not feasible with all the time, game saves, gamer points, and friends tied to this profile. He had friends built up because he used his Xbox Live silver membership (and free one month gold membership) at his other parents house (they are divorced) that he had his 360 set up on. She actually said something like "Oh, he's young and probably wouldn't mind playing all those games again". I said, "That's a pretty general thing to say isn't it? How do you know he didn't rent the games, sell them on eBay, or borrow them from friends? And why would someone want to play a lot of these games over again that have no single player replay value?"
When the customer service rep suggested using the four keypress passcode to block Live access we told her that we have tried that and it's not going to work. When she went ahead and told us that it would solve the problem we said no, the child here is 17, not 7... we're not concerned with him getting on Xbox Live whenever he wants, we just don't want him to have access to the credit card now tied to his profile for life. This is a kid who will be going off to college in about a year and will most likely have roomates that would easily be able to charge stuff to this card using his profile (very bad and very insecure).
I asked multiple times to speak to another service rep or a manager. Each time I asked she would put me on hold for five minutes or so and come back and say no one else is available.
Finally, we decided to take the $50 refund and buy a one year membership from our local Wal-Mart (for $60) and use that. However, that did nothing for her credit card info still being listed in his profile. Sadly, she had to call American Express the next day and cancel the card and have a new one issued to her. When she explained the situation to Amercian Express they were flabbergasted and glad she called to cancel.
Now that's a pain in the @#%$*!!! - Tenlow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11They call stamps.com a "no hassle" place?
Stamps.com will not cancel my account (even when it was current). The only way to cancel is by calling a phone number during very limited hours and the "on hold" wait is >2 hours. I ended up reporting the card on the account lost. They just keep rebilling me with no way of canceling. Last time I checked my account balance was somewhere around -$300 because they just keep adding more fees and there's no option to cancel. - XTrek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Solution!
If sign up requires a credit card then don't sign up! Never give these A-Holes your card number... - wisam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Let's not forget the guy who taped the phone call he made to cancel is AOL account.
It was amazing. Reported on MSNBC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmpDSBAh6RY - Zoxy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10And this is the full unedited conversation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPiLh3Wdp9o&mode=related&search= - bswopes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8He does mention toward the end that MasterCard offered to reverse the charge from NetZero. So that's how he ended up getting his money back.
- rick2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Xbox live gold is horrendus to try and cancel..
I am currently trying to get rid and i have waited over 30 mins on hold to no avail on various occaisions.. (why not enable online cancellation microsoft?!)
Just going to tell the bank to decline it when it comes around. - andyrobo60, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The easiest way to cancel any account that you pay for is to talk to your bank and tell them that company X should not be taking money out of the account. After they find out that they cant get your money they will cancel the account for you.
- cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14The space these guys play is is so littered with so many players, its not like the "old days" when everybody knew that Joe's Auto had a bad rep.
Now I'm not one for regulations for the sake of regulations (here it comes). I think its the government's job to put a fence to the left and to the right for business to stay with-in. Stray over the line and government herds you back in. No you can't dump that acid on the playground, or sell Jack Daniels to that 13 year old, etc... But in the case of account cancellation, would it be SO HARD to derive a simple and standardized form which any and all businesses that does business on-line in the USA abide by? There should be a "cancel my account" on the front page, one standardized spot, with a standardized logo and wording. The rest of the basic process should be standardized by law. Sure, let a service remind me of the cool ***** I'll miss out if I quit. Go ahead and give them the opportunity to retain my business with other offers, that is just letting a business sell their offerings. That's totally fair. But.... Not canceling accounts by fraud, or by obfuscation of the cancellation process is morally and ethically reprehensible. - uguysmakemesick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7uh why in the ***** should anyone have to CALL a number to cancel when it's on the -internet-?
- DenDen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7FINALLY, national main stream publicity of this crap! Thanks PCWorld!!!!!!!!
- bierce, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7We had no problem cancelling AOL. Just 3 steps:
1. move to another state
2. cancel the credit card
3. change your name - izzybomb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I just cancelled my WoW subscription when I saw this, since it reminded me I was going to. It was nice and simple, with a "Cancel Account" button in the account controls area. It asked me why i was quitting, but that wasnt really that annoying. Plus on the same page it answered my question of whether my character would still be there if I chose to come back :)
Go Blizz! - absolin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I always here that you "vote with your dollar", but it's so hard to find information on what you are voting for - this experiment does a great job in letting me know who to support.
- hollinj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I was considering subscribing to Rhapsody, but now I'm not so sure.
I did have great results canceling my Netflix Subscription, I did it on the internet and did not even have to call. - Archon810, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Or how about this for an idea? Get a citi or MBNA (now BofA) card that offers virtual one-time use credit card numbers and generate one whenever you need to. It's a bulletproof way with these shady sites, I've used it on a lot and it never failed me (if they can't charge me, they will cancel my account themselves).
For reference, I have the Charles Schwab credit card from https://www.schwabbankcreditcard.com that has what they call ShopSafe. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6http://www.gethuman.com/us/
Just in case you can't find the number - wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6When you look at the list of good and bad, it is pretty clear to me that companies that provide an excellent service (for the most part) have very easy cancellations policies. Netflix is the market leader; they don't need to hassle customers if they want to cancel. They just hope you will be back. Janky servies (like True.com) have to resort to deceptive, misleading, and pain in the ass hoops you have to jump through in order to cancel.
- Absolute0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+511 minutes? You're a saint.
- grimw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Record your complaint with their reps when asking to be removed from the list, and then report them the next time they call. Then start to profit.
- Archon810, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I wish everyone knew about credit cards that offer virtual one-time use numbers that you can close at any time. Unfortunately, most people don't know. See my post below with more info.
- pstation2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I canceled MSN a few days ago actually and it was all pretty simple and smooth.
I just called up and told them I had broadband already and they immediately canceled my account right there on the spot without any further questions. Now, AOL on the otherhand is a nightmare to deal with :) - mongocrush, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"if you fraudulent[ly] report that an authorized charge by True.com or its authorized agents is unauthorized, you shall be liable to True.com for liquidated damages of One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00) per incident."
If you don't Authorize that charge then this does not apply. - reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Considering that Sirius lost $900m during the first six months of 2006 I'm not surprised.
- levyjl1988, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Hell, we all know AOL is a bunch of *****, I get their demo CD's and flick them into the garbage, it's fun aiming into the dumpster, that said and done... I totally agree with this story. DUGG!
- ironbear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The True.com sort of TOS is other places, too. I recently encountered it while trying to cancel a Ventrillo server provider. They had added language indicating that by merely reading it, I acknowledged they were the sole determinate of whether a charge was valid, and that my disputing any credit card charge would result in a $500 fee to cover their trouble. Only after a complaint to their state's Attorney General was filed did their pompous ass CEO decide not to continue charging...3 months after I canceled. No refund. While new Federal law should be enacted to address this sort of abuse, in the meantime it pays to check the TOS carefully and avoid such providers entirely.
- NessTheHero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I had a Rhapsody account that I was suckered into keeping when I tried to cancel, so to save myself and cause whatever havoc I could, I did this:
Step 1: Go to simon.com/giftcard. Buy a gift account for 20 bucks. Don't buy the card, buy the account. It's the same thing except the account can be sent over e-mail the following day. Once you've bought it, wait a day.
Step 2: Get the number via e-mail. This number works EXACTLY like a visa card. You even get an expiration date and a CVV2 number. Go to the billing section of whatever website you're being hassled by and edit your billing info. Replace your credit card number with the simon account number. It should work.
Step 3: You should also have a link in that e-mail that shows the balance of your gift account. Go to that page and check the exact balance, just in case the website charges a small fee to check the validity of your card.
Step 4: Create a second paypal account. If you don't have a paypal account, you'll need two. Don't worry about making up false information. As long as the e-mail addresses you use to create the accounts are different, it will be fine. Go through the quick steps to verify both of these accounts.
Step 5: Use one account to extract the remaining balance of the gift account using "Send Money" and send it to your other account. You'll have to pay a paypal fee most likely. I tried looking for a way to withdraw money directly from a visa card but I guess either I didn't look hard enough or it doesn't exist.
Step 6: Celebrate. You got all or most of your gift account money back, and the hassling company has an empty account on your billing information.
There's probably some horrible unforseen consequence to all this, but whatever. I think the most the company will do is cancel your account for reason of insufficient funds. - Boofster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The solution is to change the expiration date of your credit card to something bogus. Then they won't be able to charge it anymore. We'll see who starts begging then. Play it at their own game.
- bpvancouver, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I love the part about RealNetworks trying to sell other services and convince you not to cancel. From the article "...RealNetworks told me that my experience was a one-time occurrence"
I worked there -- for many years -- and he experienced a very planned and management-approved policy for handling customer cancellation calls. Reiterate the benefits to convince the customer to change their mind, and if that doesn't work 2] try to sell them on other services or lower cost packages... Anything to avoid the cancel. Real seems to model a good part of their behavior after AOL, with horse-blinder focus on AOL's business practices during the mid-late 90's.
The "you can't annoy customers into liking your brand" quote is, sadly enough, a brilliant comment. - yournamehere, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5why did you post this again?
- cdbatty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I would speak to a customer service operator and tell them that your rates for these calls are $(insert large random number here) per call. If they call again, it means that they agree to these terms.
This method works well for telemarketers too - except I tell them that my rates are $4.95 per minute. As soon as I ask them for their company name for the invoice they hang up almost immediately. -
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