What is Digg?56 Comments
- funkytaco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+89I'm at work, and I approve this article.
- plamoni, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22The bad news is that this is only for government employees. It doesn't apply to places like, well, where I work. So I can still be fired for reading this article.
But I must admit, being fired for reading an article on how you can't be fired for reading articles has it's bit of dramatic irony. - Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Quote:
"...so long as this does not interfere with their overall work performance."
The MOST important thing to get out of this whole mess, is that people can get things done while surfing. In fact, I'd hazord a guess to say most people nowadays can multi-task beyond the capabilities of what previous predecessors ever dreamed of.
IF they get their work done on time, it's quality work and there are no disruptions (surfing pr0n or other visibly disruptive sites) then there shouldn't be a problem with it. End of story.
This is just my humble opinion ;) - hugepedlar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12A lot of my job involves running lengthy search queries. If I couldn't surf while I wait I'd probably wander off somewhere and waste even more time.
- cryptocom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I'm the manager of a tech support team at a large call center here in Florida. Our Employee Manual states, "Internet surfing is considered misuse of Company property, and is against Company policy. As such it can result in disciplinary action, up to and including termination."
...I've always subscribed to the belief that maintaining morale is an integral part of successful management. If your employees feel like they aren't trusted, they will only do what they have to to get out at the end of the day (and sometimes earlier). If you treat your employees like they can't think for themselves....they won't. So if my team is handling the volume of calls they are expected to while providing the level of service they must, I don't care if they are checking their personal email, or checking out cnn.com, or digg.com, or ilovelizards.com...I don't care. And if my director comes to me and asks me why my employees are consistently being seen on the Internet, I will come right back and ask him if he has reviewed my teams performance reports. In any case, they're tech support....for Internet users. Wouldn't you want to encourage proficiency at Internet navigation?
I'm not saying I'm a slacking manager either. If one of my team is viewing inappropriate material or anything close, trust me, I'll be the first one approaching with a write-up. But my team knows that I'm consistent, and that if I have to take disciplinary action, there's a reason for it beyond 'this is Company policy'. - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Disobeying" supervisors? Are we 12? Do you work in a call center? That's the only kind of job I can imagine using such a term.
I don't "obey" anyone. I happen to be allied with my management in the pursuit of company goals. I get paid well for it. But under no circumstances are they my boss -- I work for ME, no one else. Me, Inc, happens to have a contract with the company where I'm not treated like a child and I get paid well in return for my services.
That's what keeps my job a step above working at wal*mart. (Well, that and the fact that I get paid a lot more, have more fun work, and have decent coworkers :-) ) - sinner0423, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I gotta quote office space for this link.
"Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work."
But in all seriousness, It's not really the act of surfing that causes the problem, it's what could happen if you aren't careful. Spyware, Viruses, the whole deal, could cause your IT department countless hours of work to fix, just because some random pop up decided to ***** with your browsing experience. Just be sensible and stick to sites you know when you're browsing at work. Don't do anything even remotely questionable, and you'll be fine. - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8You should lodge a complaint with the department of labor and industries; If you're on an unpaid lunch, you're off the clock and they can't tell you what to do.
Unless you live in Soviet Russia, of course. In Soviet Russia, lunch eats you! - MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8True dat - but by the same token, if I had an employee who was warned repeatedly not to read the newspaper at work, shouldn't you be able to fire him too?
- thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6NO!. Stop being mindless drones, and THINK.
An employee deserves to be fired if they aren't doing their job. If they are adept enough to do their job in 10 minutes and spend 7 hours and 50 minutes surfing the net, they should be given a promotion, a raise, and work that challenges them, rather than firing them!!!
Playing games does not a bad employee make. Being a lazy ass who never gets their work done -- now THAT is a bad employee who deserves to be fired.
The idea that an employee should be paid less or fired because he completes his work in 4 hours when his coworkers all take 8 is idiotic. It's counterproductive to your company. Challenge the man, and increase his pay based on his productivity -- you're effectively encouraging people to work SLOWER by firing these folks. - jmnormand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6having a judge rule that the Internet is the equivalent of a newspaper or a telephone has to be a step in the right direction. if the ball keeps rolling it could begin to influence free speech and network monitoring cases as well. one can hope right?
- Fizzle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I was recently fired for surfing the web at work. I was a supervisor at a call center (inbound order taking, etc, not marketing) and I was the best one they had. My performance reports were perfect and my team members were the highest scorers as well. But because I was on digg.com, they let me go.
Not only that, but they blocked my Unemployment Insurance request as well. Stating that I broke company policy and it doesn't warrant me collecting for it. (When the people who blocked my request go on the internet ALL DAY..)
I have a hearing in a couple days for the unemployment issue, I think I'll use some of the arguments here, along with my written statements from my team members. - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6He should be fired for not getting his work done, not being so awesome at his work that he has time to read the paper too.
If you want him to do more than his work, then try a pay raise -- it works wonders! :-) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'm an attorney out of Boston. What stuck out to me about this story is that the decision was rendered by an Adminstrative Law Judge. This ALJ is a fancy phrase for a judge who works for a state agency, this is not state, federal court at all. Also, an ALJ has no power to bind a party legally. He is a powerless hearings judge. If anyone disagrees with his decision, you have the right under due process to seek a REAL judge.
just take this story with a grain of salt. His decision is powerless, for all practical purposes. - 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Conspicuously (and oddly) missing from Digg's new comment system is a "cancel post" option. It would have been very helpful in this instance.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I wish I could throw this, a knife, a pot of boiling water, or a bag of rats in my former supervisor's face.
- crosenblum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5If i didn't surf during lunch, i'd go insane. Since i have to eat at my desk, and not get time away from desk...
so long as it's not porn or illegal, and isn't anything affecting the company, why not let them?
Either that or let them eat away from their desks... - kree, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6good to know! (unless you work for a small business where the court can't have any say in the matter...)
- thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Dugg because you have the ability to make a decision without blaming it on company policy.
- tomaszpw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm at work. I'm reading digg.com. I call it research. This article provides the legal justification.
- TheGalacticFork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Peter Gibbons approves this article.
- Wiggles2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3daRoach, I pity your future workers if you ever become a manager...
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3unless the request is deemed "unreasonable" or "unfair" and you have legal ground to stand on. In this case he did. If his boss were too ban everyone from reading newspapers/mags/or talking on the phone, then yes they could have gotten away with this. Besides studies have show that a little casual surfing thru the day improves overall productivity. Anyone who works in a office will tell you that the little 5 min breaks you take thru out the day help clear your head and let you get back to what you were working on with some new ideas or ways to tackle the problem.
- arthuryule, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2From what I've read, the ability to surf the net or take care of personal matters on the clock is a matter of company policy. The judge is quoted as saying that the man was in compliance with policy, so it was all good. Just beware of what your companies allow you to do.
- triple1k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree. Much of my time is spent waiting for my PC to run complex GIS queries. In the past this downtime was spent wandering around the office having mind numbing conversations, or spreading gossip. At least now while surfing you may, or may not be learning something.
- Xopl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For the second time today I will say, "Thank god for that!"
- duality, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think the judge made the right decision.
Now, having said that, I am obligated to add that this is a double-edged sword that the article shows off. I personally disagree with anyone that says that ALL of any company's policy should be cut-and-dried. In any field, especially one that makes heavy use (or revolves around the use) of computers, company policy needs to be as dynamic as the people that are expected to adhere to it. In today's modern world, there is no room for absolutes except on the most basic of topics.
In this case, this was the right decision because you don't fire someone for using the tools your job provides for you. If it's that big of a deal, they should just block the network ports for the protocols they don't want people using, or lock down all the applications that they don't like. Having said that, why is this department paying for Internet access that it's against company policy to use? The point is that abuse of such privileges needs to be determined on a case-by-case basis. When judgment is dispensed in a one-size-fits-all system, the only person it fits is its tailor.
This is an important topic to bring up. Unfortunately, it's also another case of "trying to use a legal solution on a technological problem", which, as we all know from such issues as the DMCA, is an abysmal technique that never works properly.
[[Note: Digg needs to have the acronym "DMCA" put in its spell checker.]] - ProfessorRiffs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My job involves spending lots & lots of time on hold waiting for bank representatives to answer the phone. Not surfing would make my day completely horrible & my mind completely numb from all of the doing nothing which would ensue. Surfing definitely keeps my spirit up, and as a result, keeps my productivity up.
- CubeFarmDrone, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Spooner dispensed the lightest possible punishment on Choudhri, a reprimand, after a search of Choudhri's computer files revealed he had visited several news and travel sites"
Damn, if they want him fired they should have at least planted some good evidence. How hard is it to bookmark a pr0n or gambling site on his computer. Amateurs! - TheGalacticFork, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I wish I could throw this in my former supervisor's face.....
- gmajor1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Judging solely from the article, this man's web surfing did not hinder his job performance. He did his work well. And it appears that he only casually surfed the Internet for a few minutes at a time - not for hours on end. The judge's ruling should not be interpreted as a blanket statement that any internet surfing at work is okay. At the very most, this case justifies casual internet surfing.
IIs this news article someone's way of trashing the guy? The city of NY lost in the judicial courts, so now they try their case in the court of public opinion. - tony23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@plamoni:
Perhaps, but it does set a good precedent - and precedent means a lot in law. - affinity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Great judge :)
- daRoach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Tell that to Mayor Bloomberg.
- knightcrusader, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@kenwould
There is a flaw in your logic. Just because there is 200 telephones there doesn't mean there are 200 lines going out the building. Usually there are far fewer than that, say 10, If ten people are talking to their grandmothers, they hog up the only 10 lines that go out the building and cut the resource off to the people needing to call business clients, just like the people surfing news articles would be sucking backwidth that could be used for productivity.
I am sure as a Network Admin or worker (you said you have filters in there, so I assume you work in IT) you would know this. Telephony and IT seem to be close fields technologically.
KC - raccettura, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Some research I read as part of a paper I wrote in school suggested the Internet actually increases productivity... and if you think about it... it makes sense.
Everyone has to do some personal business during the day. How long does it take to go to the bank and move some cash between your savings and checking account? Between going, doing, and returning... likely a lot longer than going online for
How long does it take the average employee to buy some flowers for secretaries day? How long does it take to order them online?
Just 2 trivial examples of the many things.
Ultimately the best rule of thumb is: Unless the employee's productivity suffers... it's a good thing.
I know I can't program for hours on end... But between fark.com, digg.com as ways to read something on a break... I can code for quite a while. Not to mention get the current news.
Would that suggest I'm less productive because I'm on fark.com every so often? Not likely. It lets me clear my head while staying at my desk.... rather than "back in the day" either hiding in the bathroom, going for a walk, or standing by the watercooler for 30 minutes chatting about golf. Me reading and commenting is likely a mental exercise (yes even on fark) which keeps my brain going.
Want to see poor productivity? Look at smokers in an office building. Between the elevator rides, outside smoking, chatting... it's typically 15 minutes a smoke... often several times a day (read: 1hr+ may be wasted per day... 5 a week... etc. etc.).
Browsing the web is far from a concern.
Just shows how random some policies are. - crosenblum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Now to be honest, during lunch there are only 2 sites i visit.
1 = digg.com
2 = theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh - Bastard Operator From Hell - always amuses me and helps me relax during lunch - fredinator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1no he's just an aussie like me - due to john howards crappy new industrial relations laws workers are no longer protected by unfair dismissal laws
- LoungeActx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1amen to that..i'm in the same boat (as a designer), and when you surf you pick up inspiration, and you see what others are doing, and that helps you keep up with the ever changing internet technologies..
- NCC1701A, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Sorry, all the IT people are surfing the web looking for drivers.
No time to help... - edto, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Im at a job where I surf all the time, but also surfing helps my work (im a designer), I can stumble upon great designs and tips in coding that can help my overall productivity.
- kenwould, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Surf away. As the Network Administrator I find entertainment is seeing which web sites people go to. At my company there are a bunch of gamblers, pot smokers, and closet homosexuals :) Whenever someone goes to a prohibited site I instantly get an email notification... Keep that in mind next time you take your break and surf the web.
- arthuryule, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think in well-managed companies, they'd manage their staff the same way as you in regard to company policy and personal use of the web. I totally agree that employees that feel like they're being confined by extreme measures aren't happy and less productive--in short, companies generally would benefit from not strictly enforcing a "no personal use" policy. But I think the important thing to understand is that despite the way you've deviated from official company policy, the court will always rule in favor of the official document that outlines employee behavior as it has done many times before. The relevant company's policy happened to allow for personal use of company resources so the judge made the ruling accordingly.
- jpowell180, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I work at a call center providing Tech Support for a major ISP, and we are allowed to surf on our breaks and between calls (but naturally, not on calls!).
For us, it is, indeed, like reading a newspaper (although we are not allowed to use any web-mail feature of any kind, such as yahoo, hotmail, gmail, etc)...
Also if a program freezes up our pc, we don't have the option to right-click on the window to close the program - we have to reboot the whole pc, #$^#@@!!!! - kenwould, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What I don't get is everyone seems to forget that Internet access is a resource at work. The article compares surfing the Internet to using the telephone or reading a newspaper which it definately is not. Although a telephone is also a resource, if 200 employees are chatting on the phone to their grandmother in another state it is costing the company money in LD, but it doesn't cause any other effect on another person using the telephone system. On the otherhand, if 200 people are surfing or downloading streaming music they are using up bandwidth. This bandwidth shortage can cause slowdowns for other applications, email, etc. that also share the same bandwidth. So this simple browsing can effect not only the end-users productivity, but the productivity of the entire organization. This is why I have web filters in place on the network I run to stop the bandwidth whores.
- Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1As long as he's getting his work done, I support this decision. Hell, as I type I'm negotiating a 3-way dial in and I'm about to walk some dude through mapping some drives through Citrix. Also updating some notes, IMing a coworker and browsing DIGG.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1So you're saying that browsing the internet for 15 minutes is better 'for the company' than having a smoke for 15 minutes? I'm a smoker and I take great offence to that. I do smoke a lot, perhaps 5 minutes every 1 hours but my productivity doesn't suffer.
Just because you browse the internet and don't smoke, you presume your pastime is superior to others. If you're not working you are wasting the companies time, and while I agree people need these breaks, don't just tar everyone (who isn't you) with the same brush. - tkloppel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Shouldnt it be up to the employer? An employeer should be able to fire someone for no more than that their apperance offends them...
You are all a bunch of ***** communists. - ikiryou, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Wow...a comment from the 19th century. Well, this happens to be the 21st Century [can you say twentee-furst sin-tur-ee?]. Dinosaurs like you, who tend to be stuck inside the Box, think inside the Box, and who apparently live their lives inside the same metaphorical Box, are on their way out. Thinking inside the Box, by the way, is the key to being or remaining totally unproductive and noncreative in the 21st Century.
Since you're a dinosaur, how about speeding up the fossilization process and transforming into a puddle of unleaded gas. That way I can add you to my fuel tank, although I get the feeling that you'll probably just gum up the engine. - daRoach, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3He should be fired. His supervisors repeatedly told him not to surf. Directly disobeying supervisors is grounds for termination.
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