What is Digg?209 Comments
- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -14/+64the difference between IE and Firefox:
Error on IE; patch 60 to 90 days later
Error on Firefox; patch in 2 weeks
update on IE: 5 years
...Firefox: 6 to 9 months - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+42I've only used it for testing, but I have used it a bit. While the security may be better than IE6, nothing else is better. It still does horrid on the Acid2 test, the UI is awful - they moved stop and refresh to the right of the URL text box, hid the menu bar, the tabs are stupidly implemented, to clear the cache takes 9 mouse clicks, javascript errors still suck... I could just go on and on. I know this will get dugg down, but if you're digging for the truth - it's really a piece of crap.
I think IEs market share is going to tank in the next few years. - Eclipse19, on 10/12/2007, -10/+31IE scalability will never compare to Firefox. But aside from the IE reputation, stock packages may well perform better than Firefox. I'm sure memory leaks and things like that will not be as big a deal in IE.
- georgemarine, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23I installed it yesterday, It dosen't last for more than 30 seconds keeps on crashing all the time, I am already downgrading to the IE7 Beta 2 Preview, any one else has faced the crashed
- hypnotiq, on 10/12/2007, -16/+35I have been using IE7 beta for serveral months now. I switched to beta 2 when it was released and personally I think it's perfectly fine.
Yeah, there are problems rendering some pages, and some digg features don't work in it either. I use most browsers, but my primary browser is IE7. I think Firefox could easily get screwed over in the next year.
I just hope that the guys at Mozilla continue with their forward thinking that we all love so much. Otherwise, they could easily become that browser fad from early 2000's. - quokkapox, on 10/12/2007, -4/+23Don't bury him, I tried the IE7 beta 2 and mine also crashes within 30 seconds. Gmail doesn't work. CNN loads but crashes when you click on a link I'm not making this up. I had to revert back to IE6 (which I still need to use occasionally). There's nothing at all unusual about my setup.
- asteron, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23What's with linking to page 4? Why not link to page 1?
- srg13, on 10/12/2007, -15/+33I don't really like it. The interface is terrible, and it renders some pages badly. Also, its not themeable, and it doesn't have extentions. Plus, its a microsoft product...
- phatfish, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17"After all, XUL kicks ActiveX out the water."
Im sorry, XUL is not the same as ActiveX. - Takteek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I had the beta installed for a while and had 2 problems with it:
-The icons/interface is ugly. They should have stuck with the style they had before.
-It completely breaks Windows Media Player. No files can be played unless you download them first. Streams don't work at all. - DanAtkinson, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Firefox has not met its match in IE7 b2. Firefox has so much more potential. The whole extensions and themes abilities wipe the floor with it first off.
- zootm, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18"If IE7 doesn't support easy extension development the way that FireFox does, I'll never be using it - FireFox is more or less a "browser wrapper" for the couple-dozen extensions that I use to make my browsing easier."
That's just it though. Firefox is a better "power user" browser. If you're not one of those power users, however, Firefox has very little to offer you over IE7. The beta is quite impressive, IE is a half-decent browser once again.
I use Firefox (and Flock), and I will probably continue to do so, but at least those who don't bother changing from the default browser will see what they've been missing. - Agret, on 10/12/2007, -9/+21"i am using Firefox right now and I think I will switch to Firefox"
Sounds like a hard move, I hope you have no problems adjusting to Firefox.
"I don't use tabs, but I'm using 2 24" LCDs :D"
Oh yay so you can view 2-4 pages at once, too bad I usually have about 40 tabs open at a time. You fail. - aristan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I started to install it on my machine, only to find that it demanded I remove the old version in Add/Remove Programs... except it wasn't there. Finally found it hidden by checking 'Include Updates' and was able to remove it. Had to then install... and for some reason the icons for 'My Documents' & 'Network Places' reappeared on my desktop.
Finally get it up and running... and it's slower than Firefox, the buttons are not intuitive, and on my machine, there's a huge gap between the tool bars and the tab bars... I can see the desktop through it... I don't know why...
All and all, your regular Microsoft experience! - Eletido, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12thanks for linking to page 4 of the article
- GrinningFool, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"Their NOT memory leaks."
When I close a tab -- hell, even a whole browser window if I have multiple open -- and memory usage does not decrease, "their" memory leaks indeed. - nogami, on 10/12/2007, -10/+20If IE7 doesn't support easy extension development the way that FireFox does, I'll never be using it - FireFox is more or less a "browser wrapper" for the couple-dozen extensions that I use to make my browsing easier. Infact I don't upgrade FireFox until all of the extensions I use are completely compatible with new versions (security-based upgrades nonwithstanding).
N. - paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I too had crashing probs. I think it's an issue with the DOM as it seems to be worse on AJAX-based websites (including digg).
- Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Don't forget that it's much easier to control IE through Active Directory than it is to control Firefox.
That's a major issue that needs to be addressed before it'll start getting accepted in corporate environments.
After all, XUL kicks ActiveX out the water. - rebelyell2k5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"IE7 For XP Beta 2: Has Firefox Met Its Match?"
..uhm, no? - rhenan, on 10/12/2007, -10/+18@RetroRufio
I think you intended "meant", not "mean't".
Nice try though. - antdude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7No kidding. Page 1 is here: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=SQ3PKVDX2KOVKQSNDBOCKH0CJUMEKJVN?articleID=186700892&pgno=1&queryText= ...
- Nezzari, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"too bad I usually have about 40 tabs open at a time. You fail."
Glad to see that extra GB of memory is being put to good use. I like firefox as much as the next guy but I cannot stand it's memory issues. 3 tabs = 30 MB? No thanks, I'll use Opera until that's fixed. - bering, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Just remember that IE7 is not competing against Firefox 1.5, but against Firefox 2 that will be coming out in the fall
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/roadmap.html
Most users aren'g going to download the beta, but wait until they can get the final version or until Windows Update reminds them. By then Firefox 2 will have been released for a few months. Right? - alienvenom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I'm sorry, but IE7 has to be the ugliest piece of ***** ever.
- synaesthesia, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Play a game of word association with the average internet-savvy user and see which phrases he associates Internet Explorer with. I would expect to see less words like 'secure and reliable' and more words along the lines of 'spyware and vulnerable' to be associated with IE.
Of course, Microsoft will maintain the larger demographic, but it will take some work to win over the more internet-savvy crowd. - Magadass, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10IE is a much better enterprise application than Firefox, sure I use Firefox at home but its such a piece of ***** when it comes to managing it in an enterprise environment its nearly worthless. Not only that but when you use a Enterprise Deployment solution to deploy Firefox out to lets say 5000 workstations, since most enterprise deployment solutions use a SYSTEM account to do this and there is no user context the Firefox installer gets all funky. It creates these randomly generated folders under the context of the users which is a pain in the ass, why does it do this? I have no idea, its already in the users profile directory so why does its name have to be distinct? Its stupid..But thats just one issue out of many, not to mention you cant manage a single piece of it through Group Policy. Its obvious that Firefox is designed ONLY for home users and its not enterprise friendly in any way whatsoever! In turn to this, the company I work for has banned Firefox completely since it cant be managed!
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Has Firefox Met Its Match? Yea I suppose, it's match would be Opera but Firefox wins hands down with extension power and opensourceness. IE7 is nowhere near FF's match, it can't do a lot of the CSS ***** it should be able to...
- krewemaynard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I totally agree. Also, I think the UI has too many changes from IE 6, so much so that it would likely be a lower learning curve to just move to Firefox instead of IE 7. FF's default look and feel makes it easy to get started, so much so that people I've "converted" didn't complain at all, or ask "How do I [insert random task here]?" FF's menus and options make sense too.
Really, if you're gonna take the time to figure out IE 7's new bells and whistles, you'd really be better served by FF or even Opera. At least you'll be learning in a better, safer browser. - p9s50W5k4GUD2c6, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I started to use IE7 Beta last night.
I appreciate the cleaner GUI and I'll probably use the tabs more over time. I like how the Favorites functionality works.
Affect On Digg: it's screwing up scripts on pages. I just modded two commentaries in another post. Per norm: the comments then become hidden from view. When I tried to unhide them (just as a test) - the comment expanded but I could not see the text within the comment longer than a second. The Who Dug this section of this page is misaligned as well. Upside: script issues aside, the browser display looks more crisp than IE6.
The cloud view is screwed up as the personal profile sections are being rendered incorrectly. I know it's Beta. So is my feedback.
As for whether Firefox has met it's match: while that is a good question, wouldn't it be nice if M$ began looking BEYOND competing browsers for a change instead of cloning them?
You want your competitors to copy YOU, Microsoft - not visa versa. - deepsub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"IE7 For XP Beta 2: Has Firefox Met Its Match?"
No - Ikioi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Firefox = Large community tackling hundreds of projects, addons, improvements, all simultaneously.
IE = Group of MS corporate coders, no real community.
To answer the question: no, not until IE is Open Source, which also is to say "never".
Am I glad IE7 is released? Sure, because I'm tired of seeing Windows boxes become spam zombies from trojans and spyware. If IE7 improves security on windows for the average uninformed user, I'm all for it. Will I use it? Only at work computers that won't allow me to install Firefox. It will never have the tiny footprint that a custom Firefox will have, nor all the features that the thousands of extensions can provide. It simply can never compete with thousands of developers all working passionately to "scratch an itch", regardless of how much money MS pours into it, imho. - sremick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"I'd like to know (according to the article), how web standards support is still "too close to call" "
Agreed. This is what caused the article to lose all credibility. While one might be able to debate other points such as "ease of use" or which one "looks better" or "feels faster", or which's implementation of tabs is better.... "standards support" really has no debatable aspects. IE sucks when it comes to standards. Is IE7 better than IE6? Sure. Is IE7 anywhere near Firefox? Not for miles. - mskadu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I tried IE7 less than 48 hours ago and here are my first reactions:
a) Looks like a ugly copy of FF (Tabs, Search Box) - Shame!
b) The main menu has moved from left to right - better
c) Memory hog (made my PC slow) - Yuck
d) No adblock - Eye sore!
e) No ability to move tabs -- Thumbs down
f) Unwanted Anti-aliasing (dunno where to switch it off) - Yuck
g) Unwanted association stealing - Yuck
h) Forces me to install Windows Geniune Advantage (A known pain) - Yuck
j) Most "extensions" worth note are paid - No thanks!
All in all, IE has a long way to go. I will stick to FF thank you.
Total time wasted: 15 mins (double Yucks!) - wheezy360, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Until IE actually respects web standards and renders things correctly (which MS has admitted IE7 still will not do because it wasn't important enough for them), it will never get my respect. IE makes my job (web developer) more difficult, and that's a fact.
- The_Decryptor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I like how IE7 shows the feed as a web page, and SLE (Simple List Extensions) just rock.
- xst4t1kx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Too little too late. R.I.P.
- benthere, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Both Firefox and Opera are good browsers. I use both. I released an extension for Firefox. But I like Opera for its speed, keyboard configurability, and image handling.
Both also have their problems. Firefox has a memory leak, especially when dealing with lots of images. Opera sometimes stops loading in the middle of a page or image. ctrl-w to close a tab in Opera only works about half the time.
I'd love to see them both steal each other's features until we have the ultimate browser. Until then, I use both. - isasusinfinite, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"i have yet to come across any extensions that make my browsing better in any meaningful way."
So then you've never used AdBlock? Or how about mouse gestures? What about dictionary integration (allowing you to double-click any word and get a small popup showing you the definition?
The last one, I could live without, it's just a nicety. The first two? Killer-app for me. Once you begin to use mouse gestures, or to be able to block that effing SHAKING animated gif telling you to 'Klick here for your free Ipod"(sic) while you're trying to read a column of text, you just can't go back to non-extension browsing.
But maybe that's just me...
. . . . . . . - burtonownz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7All-in-all, I think it's a great step up from IE6. At least, now, they're on the right track. I like being to make a new tab by clicking on that trailing tab button after my last tab and I like the quick tabs function even though it took my computer a second to load images of all of the sites; if this was quicker, it'd be very cool. So, with the right skin, I think IE7 will definitely be able to compete with Firefox, assuming IE7 turns out to be much more secure.
- mistshadow2k4, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4On the subject of standards compliance, what more web develoeprs need to do is add a note to their pages "This page will not render correctly in Internet Explorer. We recommend Opera [link], Firefox [link] or SeaMonkey [link]". Most are too afraid to do that because IE still has so much market share.
By that token, why do so many label their pages "This page best viewed in Internet Explorer" when it actually renders better in another browser? - cresquin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3All I want this christmas is a browser market that all render the same code the same way... and world peace
- jmknapp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The issue is framed as a browser war, with Microsoft wishing to lure "mindshare" back to IE. That's not quite right--the browser is a free piece of software, so raw numbers are meaningless to the bottom line. More to the point is what IE7 does for Windows users generally, and its integration out-of-the-box with other Microsoft Office components, RSS, etc., without requiring a geeky DIY nightmare of extensions and add-ons from diverse sources. It seems like they accomplished that.
Personally I'm using Flock right now but am thinking that's a little too experimental. When the latest security patch from Firefox came in with fixes for a couple dozen buffer overflow vulnerabilities, Firefox 1.5 would automatically upgrade but Flock (based on Firefox 1.5) would not. - ReikiMaster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5that article felt like it was written by a Microsoft publicist. It never felt like they were being honest. So, I took the entire thing with a grain of salt.
- ziadoz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Firefox will copy the quick tabs and favourites centre in time, I'm sure of it. ;)
- CreepingDeath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4First, they're only doing it after FF started eating their lunch, something everyone here needs to keep in mind, MS doesn't give 2 ***** about how well their browser works, if its standards compliant, or how secure it is, all they want is to try to control the web market by controlling the browser. Want proof? Go code a page to work for the standard and then test it in IE6 and FF and Opera see which one renders the page correctly, which one gets it 99% right, and which one doesn't even get close. I hate to say it, but I agree with Dvorak on this one, MS should just throw in the towel, bundle FF, Mozilla, and/or Opera with windows and everyone would be much, much happier. The unwashed masses would be way safer, and those of us that have to code webpages would curse MS just a little less.
- dk911, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I should add this comment:
99% of people that use a browser don't give a ***** about compatibility or standards compliance. All they care about is will their Yahoo! mail come up, or can they check the latest movie/sports/entertainment highlights. The only people who really care whether or not a browser is actually a good product, are the people who have to develop with them daily... like myself. - YellowBook, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Goodbye and good riddance IE.
I'm NEVER going to install a MS browser again after all of the crap that IE has caused friends and family. Firefox is great because the community makes it great with all of the fantastic extensions and themes. IE7 will never have the community contribution that makes Firefox what it is. - JohnnySoftware, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Interesting. Well, I have been telling my Mom not to run IE (or Outlook) for about half a decade. Happily, it is one of the pieces of computer advice she has always heeded me on.
She has been running Netscape, then Mozilla, and now Firefox+Thunderbird on her computer since she bought it. Last week I talked her through installing Firefox 1.5.0.2. Now she can easily get updates to new 1.5 versions using a simple command in the Firefox help menu.
She does not even have to run an installer to do that; and the updates download really fast on her dial-up connection. Compare that with having to run an OS update and then reboot the whole computer.
I am not about to tell my mother to switch to IE. Besides, she couldn't use IE 7 even if she wanted to get it.
She is one of the millions of computer users using Windows 98 SE. She is grateful that the latest version of Firefox continues to support Windows 98 SE. Firefox is not trying to push people to constantly buy the latest version of the OS if they, or buy a new computer if their current one cannot run that new OS.
Personally, I don't run it either. Microsoft dropped support for IE on Mac OS X years ago. They stopped updating it a long time ago. A few months ago, they stopped even making the download available from their website. I guess for my familiy, IE 7 is not even on the table as an option - Microsoft having dropped support for our computers, as it were.
So for us, the question "Has Firefox Met Its Match?" has a simple answer: No, it dropped out of the game! IE 7 is not even competing with Firefox to run on our computers, since it does not run on them! - mr.hostility, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3LOL
Last time I tried IE7 flash wouldn't even work. While it seemed better than 6, it also seemed weirdly retarded to use. They are trying to make things more intuative, but failing. (except for Office 12 which works very nicely) Vista is a perfect example of a failed interface.
Firefox will always be better for a simple reason, it's not tightly intergrated with the OS. -
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