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- scutter, on 08/04/2008, -6/+55IBM has some serious work to do. My previous employer switched fron Notes to Exchange. I have never seen an IT initiative like that so championed by the users. Everyone hated Notes. Everyone. When the IT manager walked the execs through a PowerPoint describing the costs and timeline for the change, they applauded.
- kraetos, on 08/04/2008, -11/+391989 called, they want their headline back.
- manstein01, on 08/04/2008, -2/+27If IBM really wants to change, they need to blow up their Notes client and start over. That thing is a bloated mess. I honestly think Domino Server is a pretty neat product, especially with the security it offers, though I know many would disagree with me.
They could also create a "light" version of Domino server which only did email/shared calendaring. Forget the massive, enterprise only database program which no SMB on the planet would ever want. - bpotts, on 08/04/2008, -3/+21Users usually hate Lotus notes...but admins love it. I've never administered a lotus notes implementation but the admins tell me it's like night and day compared to exchange...
- CircleFusion, on 08/04/2008, -0/+15I think you mean pseudo.
Unless you were trying to invoke organized chaos through a *nix command. =] - SteelChicken, on 08/04/2008, -5/+20exchange was released to the public in 96, so if youre gonna make fun of something, get your facts straight
- qbqb, on 08/04/2008, -6/+17Owls from Diagon Alley are better than Lotus Notes.
- manstein01, on 08/04/2008, -0/+11How on earth did you get Exchange for $3/seat? Please provide me a link to the vendor you bought it through, I would love to call them.
- MrFurious2k, on 08/04/2008, -1/+12IBM's strength has always been in the backend of the product. Their security and functionality is usually pretty impressive. Unfortunately, the part that people see all the time (the GUI) is uninteresting and sometimes downright difficult to use.
Unless IBM figures out that there is more to application development than features, they're going to lose another battle to Microsoft. - SteelChicken, on 08/04/2008, -9/+18Notes sucks for email, but when it comes to other non-email/calendar functionality, exchange is no where even close.
- BXRWXR, on 08/04/2008, -12/+19*****' Notes Sucks!
Sincerely,
A Daily Notes User - sfacets, on 08/04/2008, -12/+19Two dinosaurs face it off. Who will win?
Who cares? - anandoc, on 08/04/2008, -1/+8I use Notes 8.0.1 with integrated sametime everyday at work. Its the worst piece of garbage I have seen. The minimum system requirements for Notes 8 is 1 GB of RAM...can you believe that? People call Windows Vista bloated? Thats a full damn operating system and still only requires 1 GB of RAM.
Try to schedule a meeting and add a meeting resource (such as a conference room) in Notes...it will drive you insane. - gurellia53, on 08/04/2008, -2/+9I'm running notes here at work and I have very few complaints and Sametime 7.5 has a ton of features that I actually use... maybe I don't feel bloat because I have hardware for Pro/E, but I don't see any problems
- sodoh, on 08/04/2008, -4/+10"they need to blow up their Notes client and start over"
They did in release 8. It is using the Eclipse RCP platform. There is still the basic version though for people with older hardware.
As for Light Domino, just switch off the services you don't need. Although as mentioned Domino is not solely a mail server, it is just one of the things it does. - snotrokit, on 08/04/2008, -3/+9It is an admin vs. user issue in most shops. Admins love notes, users hate it. Most users just want to use Outlook as a client, because it is easy, and "everyone else uses it". Unfortunately, CIO's, and the people that write the checks like using Outlook too. Personally, I really don't like Exchange. I don't like managing it, and I really don't like paying for it and the 1500 add ons that you have to purchase to make it work. That's just me, everyone else in the office wants Outlook, they really don't care about the backend.
In the end run, we both won. I run Zimbra on the back end, they get Outlook on the front end. winwin - kyriakos, on 08/04/2008, -1/+7IBM and decent UI should not be mentioned in the same paragraph
- vvaduva, on 08/04/2008, -1/+7Hah - I second that. Notes blows. I would use Exchange any day over Notes!
- Scott2, on 08/04/2008, -0/+6Wait until you have more than 10 employees and try to say that again.
- raremage, on 08/04/2008, -0/+5This fight is over. Notes had it's time in the sun, but that ship has sailed.
The only ones who seem to really prefer Notes these days are the Notes admins. - boethius, on 08/04/2008, -0/+5We use Notes 6.5 in my current co - a Fortune 500. Note sure what crackpipe IBM is on, but they are migrating off of it to Exchange 2007, albeit slowly due to the enormous cost of building out an enterprise-class E2K7 infrastructure plus extremely tight budgets due to the economy. I came in as an acquired company that used Outlook + Exchange before and honestly the Notes client stinks. This was compounded by constant, high-profile failures of the Domino servers but the Notes team got their act together and built several large Domino clusters and failures are now rare. The facts are pretty simple - very, very few users either know or like the Notes client--in my experience the vast majority of users haven't even heard of Notes--no matter how "superior" some of the backend technology may be.
- Aaronontheweb, on 08/04/2008, -1/+5If you run a for-reals business, a lot.
- wibambau, on 08/04/2008, -1/+5It's interesting to note that Lotus Notes creator Ray Ozzie now works for Microsoft. His company called Groove was bought by Microsoft in 2005. Groove 2007 appears to offer similar collaborative capability through the use of workspaces.
- counterplex, on 08/04/2008, -0/+4That's almost as bad as the first time someone corrected my misuse of the word "discrete" to mean "hush-hush" since all I knew was the spelling of the mathematical term. Now I know about "discreet" too ;)
- kraetos, on 08/04/2008, -0/+4The IBM-Microsoft rivalry has been around longer than 12 years. OS/2 anyone?
- joebrender, on 08/04/2008, -1/+4Sounds like a certified Domino Admin would be a pretty hand thing to have, eh?
- danbowden, on 08/04/2008, -4/+7Well why don't they get their front end right? Ok so every sysadmin on the planet says it has a better back end. Who gives a f**k when the IT manager who has to use it daily, thinks it's the biggest pile of heap because of it's clunky interface and weird non standard shortcuts and terminology.
C'mon IBM! Maybe you could source some Apple UI designers to do a decent job! - qbqb, on 08/04/2008, -3/+6You are being too kind.
- c5kirk, on 08/04/2008, -0/+3Currently working with a company that has 300+ people doing just that (Outlook front-end and Notes 8.0.1 on Linux backend) with no problems.
- zippy757, on 08/04/2008, -1/+4$3 .... You're full of crap....
- caseycoold, on 08/04/2008, -0/+3Never is.
- NJank, on 08/04/2008, -1/+41998 called, they want their headline back
i'll blame his lisdexia - inactive, on 08/04/2008, -3/+6Wait, are you saying that a Domino server is *easier* to administer than an Exchange one?
Hold on here...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!one!!1!!!
Thanks. - jakem1, on 08/04/2008, -3/+6Outlook plus Exchange is hardly out of date. That combination is the poster child of cloud computing at the moment and works brilliantly for corporate or personal mail, contact and task management, etc.. Why do you think Apple feels the need to reference it when advertising MobileMe?
Notes, on the other hand, should have dies a long time ago. - tnvwboy, on 08/04/2008, -0/+3Agreed, though it pains me to say so. As a front-end user only I can appreciate why users hate Notes. As a former Exchange admin, I can appreciate the weaknesses of Exchange vs Notes.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could have Notes on the back-end and Outlook on the front (and it actually work)? But IBM and Microsoft are too busy trying to knock each other off the top that they are neglecting the users who just want something that works well (on both ends). - alethes1973, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3It's been quite a few years since I used Notes, but it seems like the biggest problem people have with it is the client. I doubt users and PHBs would have much of an opinion about Domino. If IBM wanted to make Notes suck a lot less, couldn't they make a few extensions for Thunderbird (or even Outlook to get at MS) that would allow users to have a more modern client and might even be cross-platform?
I'm just wondering, so let me know if there's something about Notes' functionality that makes this impossible. - jakem1, on 08/04/2008, -0/+2Oh dear. I can count on one hand the number of clients I've worked for in the last year that use PCs with more than 1Gb of RAM.
- ferrariman60, on 08/05/2008, -0/+2No, remember how this is in the business world?
- 6dust, on 08/04/2008, -0/+2"The vast majority of issues with Notes is NOT Notes itself but a user issue."
Typical IBM mentality. Maybe if you made a user-friendly product, there wouldn't be so many user issues?
Seriously, why create a new account on Digg just to jump on here and talk trash about how great Bloatus is? If anything, you're overly defensive attitude is just hurting the already trashed image. - Shady81, on 08/04/2008, -2/+4Good - Lotus Notes is a steaming piece of *****. I hope MS obliterates their stranglehold. As a daily Notes user, I can only root for MS here.
- marksism, on 08/04/2008, -2/+4No.
- snotrokit, on 08/04/2008, -0/+2Yes, there is an Outlook connector that you install @ the client, but really it is a 45 second task. Super super easy, and if I remember right, you can push it.
- flyzipper, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3Would you be able to share that PowerPoint ... or at least some details about #'s of users, #'s of servers, whether it was a centralized or distributed deployment, etc?
I've never seen a compelling cost-based reason to justify the switch for a large organization. - flyzipper, on 08/04/2008, -2/+4Lotus Connections will help IBM in a big way since it's a way easier story to tell than SharePoint. When 10 business execs walk out of a Lotus Connections briefing, they all leave carrying the same mental model of what they just saw and understand the benefits. SharePoint is a jumbled mess in the story it tells and the execs leave with their purse strings still firmly closed.
That's significant because enterprises are currently evaluating social software. If SharePoint was any good in that space, IBM shops would then have more weight on the Microsoft side of the scale and it might make it somewhat easier for them to consider a switch.
Contrary to some of the posters above, there simply isn't a compelling cost benefit for a large Notes shop to switch to Exchange. Licenses are just a small portion of the cost when you factor in server hardware, storage, staffing, end-user impact, etc. Also, every large Notes shop has leveraged the platform for more than email, so they would have a huge conversion costs in front of them for document, discussion and workflow databases/applications. It's also likely the Notes shop is running Sametime so they'd have to factor in a Sametime-to-Office Communication Server project as well. - iamthearm, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3I haaaate Notes. I support over 400 users and I get daily Lotus Notes errors that, most of the time, never effect the user but are just annoying. What a junky program.
- 6dust, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3Yeah, not being able to forward invites to other people is a huge improvement. Also, meetings that I haven't accepted yet not showing a thing on my calendar? Much better that Outlook's letting me know that there is at least something there I was invited to. Oh, wait...
- huggablejunk, on 08/04/2008, -5/+7Sounds like no one is using the latest version of Notes 8x. Notes 6.5 and 7.0 are ancient dinosaurs at this point. People switching to Exchange probably get the latest outlook client with its pretty GUI. Try Notes 8x, then you can complain.
- thungurknifur, on 08/04/2008, -2/+4Although my hatred of Microsoft is great, my contempt for that clunky, piece-of-***** software named Lotus Notes is far greater!
- NotACYBORG, on 08/04/2008, -1/+3What are you, an IBM sales rep?
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