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Hybrids: Seven Worries, Seven Answers

money.cnn.com — Sometimes buyers avoid hybrids for the wrong reasons. But, for some buyers, their worries are well founded.

Who dugg this? Made popular Sep 28, 2006

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  • Weav, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27Bring back the electric cars.
  • LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18"Why? Almost all our energy comes from fossil fuels anyway. Using more electricity means we're burning more coal/oil at the power plant rather than at the car. And, due to transmission/conversion losses, its likely more efficient to generate energy by burning gasoline "on-site" rather than burning coal thousands of miles away, turning that energy into electricity, sending that electricity to you and then reconverting the electrical energy into mechanical energy. "

    No... your reasoning is sound, but in reality, generating energy even from coal at a power plant is an order of magnitude more efficient than burning gasoline locally... the efficiency of the ICE is somewhere around 20%, while electricity generation is much higher than that.

    Electric cars, if they didn't get torpedoed by the car companies, would have continued to be much more affordable to drive per mile and pollute less (even if it came from nothing but coal plants).

    In addition, using an electric car means that you can potentially replace that coal power source with a renewable source like wind, hydro, solar, while you don't have that option if you use gasoline locally.
  • StarManta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I like the Prius design. I don't know what everyone else complains about.
  • LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9The batteries will go back to the manufacturer who can recycle the batteries to reclaim the metals. If it is within the first 100000 miles or 8 years, the manufacturer will replace it for free.

    According to the car companies, not a single hybrid owner has replaced the battery in their car at cost, and so far the track record is that hybrids have been rock solid reliable...

    Diesels still have a big problem with NOx emissions, and don't work nearly as well as hybrids for slower speed city-type driving, which makes up about 70 % of my driving.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Dont forget that you still get a big tax break for buying a hybrid, though.
  • krewenki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@Monolith2 - In the U.S. you do. Not in Canada. A Civic hybrid is 26k here, while a Civic DX-G will cost you about 18k.

    When you buy a Civic in eastern Canada, you get a $750 gas card, and the dealership will finance it at 5.9% over 5 years.

    When you buy a Civic Hybrid in eastern Canada, you get no gas card, you get charged extra money, you get to finance it at 7.9%, and you get no tax break. There really isn't much incentive to be driving one here, at all.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Until Hybrids start at about 14-17k, it's definitely not worth buying one at the moment.


    Doesn't make sense to pay 26k for a Civic Hybrid when I can get one for about 16k or so.

    I can't imagine using up 10k of gas to really make that difference
  • deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The Honda Civic hybrid looks identical to the non-hybrid model.
  • mylkhead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm very happy with my 03 Civic Hybrid. I didn't purposely set out to buy a hybrid, but at I couldn't pass up the deal at $11,000. I bought it in June and I've driven about 3500 miles and filled up a total of 6 times. I am not a "pro-hybrid" person, I'm just a person who was looking for a car and the one in my price ranged happened to be a Hybrid. Granted, it had 99,990 miles on it, but everything from the engine to the interior looked brand new. And it's been totally cool so far.

    But I agree that paying 25k for a brand new hybrid isn't worth it.
  • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Batteries should last years. They all use NiMH batteries, which are not particularly harmful to the environment, so trashing them isn't a huge tragedy. Toyota's warranty covers the battery for 7 years, I think. When they do need to be replaced, they'll probably be recycled.
  • Stevethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4OK you have two Civics 2006 completely identical with each other, only the first is new non-hybrid while the second has very small mileage (used of course) and it's hybrid, it also costs 2k more. Which would you prefer?

    Since this is a real-life issue to me I would prefer the hybrid solution, I think I would be fool if those 2k more bucks would keep me away from the newer and more efficient tech.
  • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7The Prius doesn't look any worse than any other normal, non-sports car. With the exception of the strange wheel covers, I like the Honda Insight's styling, too. I don't see why people think that small cars aren't cool.

    (Then again, I also don't have a small penis that needs to be compensated for.)
  • LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's funny that you would mention that car companies should abandon hybrid technology for Fuel Cell technology.

    As planned, every single fuel cell vehicle described by the car manufacturers is ALSO a hybrid vehicle. FCHV.. fuel cell hybrid vehicles. They have large lithium ion or NiMH batteries as an electricity reservoir and use regenerative braking just like gas-electric hybrids of today.

    Every single cent that car companies spend today researching hybrid technology and trying to make it cheaper is also making FCVs more realistic.
  • PhantomZmoove, on 10/12/2007, -0/+399,990 miles? Wow, that is A LOT of driving for an 03. I haven't racked up that many miles on my 94 yet.

  • rugger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I wish I had a diesel, then I could make my own fuel for less than a dollar a gallon. Its too bad diesels never really became all that popular in the us, I would love a diesel wrangler.
  • qwertydvorak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i think the honda insights look great.... but that is coming from someone who had 2 crx's and they are very similar in looks ;) even the crx had great gas mileage and performance... only my geo metro was better at mileage but it was butt ugly and had no performance.... but i can't wait until they bring out the plug in hybrids... i am picturing one the size of a crx or insight but able to go 80-100 miles on the overnight charge and then i will be a VERY happy almost non-gas user.
  • flickr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hmmm, okay questions but what about the big one?

    "Weighing all factors during manufacture, use and disposal is a Hybrid really better for the environment than a conventional combustion powered automobile?"

    I've heard uninformed opinions about this question but I'd really like some facts.
  • madden818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I have a 2006 Highlander Hybrid Limited with 50,000 miles on it already.
    I LOVE it. It has guts and still gets pretty good gas mileage for an SUV, nice combination. Been very reliable too.


  • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6You only notice hybrids like the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight because of their unique styling.

    The Toyota Highlander, Lexus HX330, Honda Civic Hybrid, Honda Accord Hybrid, and Ford Escape Hybrids all look exactly like their non-hybrid counterparts.

    Stop being an hybrid hating troll.
  • spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Both Toyota and Ford claim to have hybrid vehicles in fleet use that have lasted well over 100,000 miles -- Toyota claims a few vehicles with over 200,000 miles.

    I used to test drive vehicles for a second job. We drove 300 miles a shift. However, these cars are maintained very well so are their fleet vehicles. So 100,000 miles is not that big of a deal and most of them are tested in small town type markets. Mine was in Bemidji MN. Believe me the only stop and go traffic we had was when there were a lot of deer. Real world tests a necessary
  • LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Mike:

    From a strictly engineer's perspective, those wheel covers are probably the most interesting and beautiful part about the Insight's design, imho...

    It has those skirts to reduce drag by the rear wheel wells, leading to a sleeker line along the side of the cars.

    Hybrid Civics don't go as far as the Insight in reducing the drag of the rear wheels, but they implement more aerodynamic and distinctive hubcaps instead.
  • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh, I know what they do and why they're there, I just don't think that they look that great. It wouldn't stop my from buying one, but I think that the Insight would have been much more successful with the public if it hadn't been for the wheel covers. Honda did all they could to make it as efficient as possible, but I don't think the decrease in efficiency would be that large without them, and they would have sold more.
  • tonage, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9I just have one question. Why don't they make a hybrid that look good? They all look like geeky tree hugger mobiles.
  • apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hybrids can indeed save you money. It's like everything else... you just have to study your own situation. Here's an article from Edmunds about saving money with hybrids:

    http://www.edmunds.com/help/about/press/116578/article.html

    And here's a hybrid calculator from DOE, to give you an idea how much you can save:

    http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/hev/calculator/single.php
  • viii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, but it would be even better if we could get to the point where the old, reliable vehicles were also hybrids!
  • gridbread, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, I have, and electric cars with the newer battery described in the movie potentially yield 300 miles a charge.
    It's a shame we banished pure electrics, domestically produced energy that powered our cars was a great alternative to oil.
    It really seems true, it threatened the auto maintenance industry with virtually no maintenance and of course used no oil, a technology of today that was taken away from us.
  • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I totaled 2 Hybrids with my Gas Hungry Ex police Caprice Classic with 5.7L 350!! And my car is still running strong!!! Both time it was those yuppies fault! One was driving without his head lights at night snowy foggy night and he hit me when I made a left turn.
    2nd one they were driving fast thought icy dirt road in the dark with bald tires, when they see me they couldn't stop or trun becase of their tires.


    It was cheap so I paid cash for it. Takes about $60 to $70 to fill up Every 2 weeks but no car payments or insurance so changing to gas saving car won't help me much.

    So it cost me about ~$200 to run my car/month. With new car will cost me at least $500 or more.
    Buy used cheap reliable car if you want to save money!
  • Dustyb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@LaughingMan11

    Thanks for clearing up that for me. I'm glad they recycle I was just worried that all the batteries would go in a trash heap. And I pass emmission tests just fine here in Oregon. The emmssion tests for diesels aren't that great because while diesels produce 15% more green house gas than gasoline cars, I'm getting 40 mpg on my 1.6 L Jetta, and my dad gets 50 mpg, and 42 in town with his Turbo Direct Injection Jetta.

    And to clear things up the "oil" I can get at Costco is like Olive oil, although I haven't done it yet.
  • VorpalK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No kidding. I have an 03 Element, and I only have 13000 on it. I can't imagine the kind of driving required to get 99000 in that space of time. Daily deliveries to the other side of the country perhaps?
  • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Oh And anyone here seen Who Killed Electric Car yet?
  • zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Up here in Vermont/NH Area only the Super Rich people drive hybrids.
  • cookin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The Canadian dealers selling Hybrids can't get enough to meet demand, even without incentives from government or the manufacturers. Demand outstrips supply; prices rise. People are just willing to pay more for hybrids.
  • Jcterveer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How about the pro of being able to drive in the carpool lane in California without having to car pool. he he
  • aMeta4, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5WORRY: "But won't using less fuel help the planet by cutting down on air pollution and greenhouse gasses?"

    Conclusion: Shut the ***** up, consume, and stop thinking about any ones welfare but your own.
  • MikeCerm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@ Pic0

    Hybrids are more expensive because they have an additional electric drive-train, and a $5000, battery. Gas prices have nothing to do with it, but higher gas prices would me hybrids a better value.
  • vorlons, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Actually diesel cars put out LESS of the greenhouse gas (CO2) compared to gasoline engines, so they have less global warming effect. What diesel puts out more of is NOx, which causes smog, is also a greenhouse gas, and particulates.

    In the USA, switchover to Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel will be complete in October 2006. This allows new 2007 model year diesel cars to use better emisssons systems that will greatly reduce NOx and use particulate traps.

    Honda has announced a diesel "gasoline engine killer" that will be available in USA starting 2009. Unlike the complex systems MB, VW, and BMW is developing to meet new strict emissions, the Honda emissions system is much simpler, cheaper, as clean as a gasoline engine, and get 30% better milage. Go Honda!

    http://sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa012&articleID=8558CB408C1D76621371888657D2EB1D

  • Darkkish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
  • badtz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1For those that like Camrys .. Toyota just came out the hybrid version of this car .... doesn't look so shabby! My parking neighbor drives one and I likes! Hopefully my next car will be a hybrid!! I would LOVE an Audi TT in a hybrid! :)
  • MoeOless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Bought a 06 Civic Hybrid in April, have 12000 kms (8k miles) best I've done is 61 mpg on a 1200km trip, but normally average 50-52 mpg.
    Don't buy it for economy, only buy if you feel a need to lessen the enviournmental damage.
    It's a small engine - 93 hp gas and 18 hp electric, so your not going into street dragging anytime soon.
    Honda has never had to replace the 158 volt charging system. It's about $3000 after warranty runs out in 8 years.
    There was up to $2000 in tax relief available but it ran out a couple months ago.
  • Whitey04, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@LaughingMan11

    I'd really like to see a detailed study of the pollution from electric cars. We all make a lot of guesses on this issue....maybe somebody could digg an article about it ;-)

    "And now for something completely different:"

    And, most people forget the political aspect of coal. We like hybrids because it reduces our dependence on "foreign oil" but electric cars would increase our dependence (further) on coal. Which the US has quite a lot of BTW.
  • origclubsoda, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I have seven reasons why I hate these lists.
  • mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't know why people hate skirts so much. They used to be a sign of class (along with white-wall tires) on high-end US cars up through the early 70s. They were also a fixture on futuristic cars like the Citroen CX which the Insight resembles.

  • MrBlackthorne, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I bought one for less than a comparable traditional-gas Civic. No sales tax on hybrids in CT, plus $2100 federal tax credit make the Civic Hybrid less than an equivalent Civic (with the same features)...

    I consistently get 45 MPG per fill-up, driving about 500 miles on 11 gallons of gas. On my drive to work, I've actually gotten 53 MPG on the highway.
  • MikeMacMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2FTA - "Don't buy a hybrid just to save gas money. Even if you save some money, it probably won't be much."

    So why would I buy a hybrid?
  • crexor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1the article did not mention safety issues, i know most hybrids are safe for the driver and passengers, but ive read several articles about the extremely high voltages involved, and how they pose a potential risk to resuers such as EMTs firefighters/etc attempting to enter a damaged car, i know its not a huge problem, and they are clearly marked, but the article brought up much less important issues.
  • MrUnderbridge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"According to the car companies, not a single hybrid owner has replaced the battery in their car at cost, and so far the track record is that hybrids have been rock solid reliable..."

    Yes, by definition all of them are still under warranty in this country (with the possible exception of the crazy bastards who put 100K miles on one in 5 years). We'll see what their tune is when they start going out of warranty in the next couple of years. Any batteries replaced to date in the US must have lasted less than 6 years.
  • syyykko, on 06/04/2008, -0/+0Well said, people think I bought a prius only cuz it saves gas....Actually, I bought because of the fact that as a car, it is totally functional, roomy, and has tons of electronic toys in it. It is simply a lower end luxury mid size sedan that rocks on mileage...I drove my roommates larger dodge stratus and got a neck ache from my head hitting the roof.
  • syyykko, on 06/04/2008, -0/+0I think the price is now less than $2500
  • syyykko, on 06/04/2008, -0/+0There are quite a few of priuses that have passed 300,000 miles...and these are just everyday Joes...the car is just too new to have a ton of people put that kind of mileage on it before it's smashed or what have you.
  • vorlons, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Actually diesel cars put out LESS of the greenhouse gas (CO2) compared to gasoline engines. What diesel puts out more of is NOx, which causes smog, is also a greenhouse gas, and particulates.

    In the USA, switchover to Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel will be complete in October 2006. This allows new 2007 model year diesel cars to use better emisssons systems that will greatly reduce NOx and use particulate traps.

    Honda has announced a diesel "gasoline engine killer" that will be available in USA starting 2009. Unlike the complex systems MB, VW, and BMW is developing to meet new strict emissions, the Honda emissions system is much simpler, cheaper, as clean as a gasoline engine, and get 30% better milage. Go Honda!

    http://sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa012&articleID=8558CB408C1D76621371888657D2EB1D
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