What is Digg?136 Comments
- KenLin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Seriously, for the longest time Yahoo and Microsoft have been taking a beating in the media for abiding by the laws of the countries they operate in (despite how distasteful they may find them). Both of those companies know Google does the same but the blogs just do not want to report or believe it. Finally it is coming out. Do a little evil is apparently OK if Google does it.
- chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Google new slogan: "OK, do only a little evil."
- kohno214, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2[Google officials characterized the censorship concessions in China as an excruciating decision for a company that adopted "don't be evil" as a motto. But management believes it's a worthwhile sacrifice.]
LMAO - captainahab, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Awww.
Daddy Google showed its true colors, now all the progressive little fanboys don't know what to say. - mattjumbo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I can't believe some of you are so blindly anti-American that you're spouting this ridiculous "They have to respect China's laws" crap. Truly idiotic. We aren't talking about the censoring of bomb-building information of sensitive military secrets.
The Chinese government, and now Google are censoring ideas and words like "freedom" "democracy" and "human rights." There is *never* any justification for censoring *ideas.*
Ever. In any nation in the world. Under any circumstances. - vvaduva, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Mmmm, mutton."
I was typing too fast....I know...my bad. :)
Anyways, as someone who was born and lived for most of my life under Communism, I can say I am very disappointed with what Google is doing. There is a big difference between "obeying laws" and "doing the right thing." Where is the fine line that one can cross? Good is doing what it comes naturally, it is going after dollar signs, and dollar signs in this instance trumps what is right. It happens all the time, everywhere, is just that when it comes to Google, some profess hypocrisy and ignore what they do wrong.
Oh, and also, people inside China are looking at us as an example - when Google refuses to turn over anonymous user information to hunt down child pornographers, but then turns around and blocks free access to what Chinese dissidents consider crucial information, then there is something seriously questionable with their position. - cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"you shouldn't let commousit controll Americans"
They are not. The communists are controlling the Chinese. This has no affect on Americans, unless you use google.ch.
BTW, see the button on the left that says "check spelling?" Try it. I know English may be your second language but their is still no excuse for not hitting the spell check. - AnotherBrian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This could eventually turn out to be very good for the Chinese, notice that I said Chinese, not the Chinese government.
1) Google agrees to censor it's self to get into China.
2) Google becomes ubiquitous and part of the Internet culture and a basic tool of the Internet.
3) In 5 years Google tells the Chinese government to suck it and removes the filters.
4) The Chinese government gets butt ***** by their citizens(hopefully) if they try to remove Google now.
It does contain some big 'ifs' but if it worked it would be awesome. - capajc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"motton" (sigh)
Why can't people understand that Google _has_ to do this for its shareholders? If they don't, then they won't be allowed to operate in China, and they'll lose a large chunk of business. If they didn't play ball, shareholders could sue them for not acting in their best interest. - constantly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"This video is not playable in your country."
Yes it is.
http://feelingtea.com/decode/google/index.php
(for now, anyway) - algorejr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Search for ‘tiananmen square’ in the communist version of google.cn and same term in google.com. I remember 1989 well, Google has erased it in China.
What law was being broken with this search result? - orsoihaveheard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1And to think I had stopped laughing at all the folks who excoriated MSFT for complying with Chinese censorship a few months ago. Same *****, different ticker.
If you think GOOG is different then you're right where they want you to be. Carry on. - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2 Tell me this, whitch would you rather have if you are in China?
A: a censored google
B: no google at all - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"When Google censors results in China, it intends to post notifications alerting users that some content has been removed _ to comply with local laws. The company provides similar alerts in Germany and France when, to comply with national laws, it censors results to remove references to Nazi paraphernalia."
So, this is nothing new. It's like the "missing results" you see right here in the U.S.A. due to DMCA takedown letters. - hydd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Censorship is good. Kill all humans. End of transmission.
- GLSmyth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Mitlitary: do not piss me off, we also have enough nuclear head to blow all you silly kids off from this planet."
We've got enough to blow this planet off this planet - several hundred times over. - cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1China is not industrious??? Hello????? 10 bucks says the keyboard you typed that statement on was made in China. Mine is.
I'd say that the typical USA citizen is much more lazy than the typical Chinese. - joeljkp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Companies are not obligated to do whatever they can, or enter whatever country, to make money. While a somewhat more extreme example, there are lots of questions surrounding IBM and Germany in the 1930s and if they were contracted to produce the machines used to count citizens, etc. It was probably a lucrative contract, but if true, that doesn't make it right.
Like it or not, Google stands for free speech, and entering China under an agreement to censor goes against those principles. I'd agree that they shouldn't enter China officially and then break their laws. But they don't need to enter China officially at all, at least in a way that would put them in that position.
They have a calculated decision to make: increase their value to the shareholders by entering a lucrative market, or increase their value to the shareholders by staying out on principle and earning the respect of other like-principled consumers everywhere else. - SolariPicasso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Do no evil except when it makes us money. I suppose the 8% drop in there share price put the scare on these guys. Information wants to be free. How will Googles brand do when the Chinese discover they are being lied to!
- TheTraveller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Isn't a message to the Chinese Google user (as planned), that their search results have been censored to comply with local laws, in the end much more helpful for democracy and freedom of speech than Google not entering the Chinese market at all?
- lampy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1BREAKING NEWS: Google is a business, just like the evil M$ that everyone loves to hate!!! Anyone who thinks Google isn't out to make a buck just as much as Microsoft or Apple need a reality check. I can't wait until we get the news story where Apple agrees to some totalitarian law in China and the minds of millions of fanboys explode. They are ALL in it to make a buck, hating or loving one over another for anything besides their services or products is a joke.
- zone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@mattjumbo: dude, in what world are you living in? Do you know _anything_ from another country besides the US?
- TKDWILSON, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1""""""so they give in to china but not the u.s.??
they should tell both governments to go ***** themselves"""
Google used to be blocked in china. Google just wants to get into the country. From there they can miss sites and become slow on blocking them. ;-)
Eric Wilson - YouKnowMe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sell outs.
- NewEvolution, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google is a company.
China has lots of people.
People viewing ads makes Google's money.
End.
If you want to spout some righteous indignation, yell at Wal*Mart et. al. for funding China's current government and decimating US manufacturing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"You idiots who are saying this is an evil move on Google's part should go f themselves because Google is the only one standing up to our US government when they demand search records. Apparently the Google that we all thought would turn evil after going public is actually quite nice and looking out for us."
Oh, Google will watch out for its users. Just as long as it doesn't cut into their wallets...
Once the U.S. Government decides to play nasty and threaten Google with tax audits and internal investigations you'll be amazed at how quickly Google will sell their soul (and your information) to the White House.
I suggest everyone who is surprised at the "evil" actions of Google to give Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand's writings a good look. It'll expose the true purpose of a corporation. - iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WTF (why) should Google censor it? Let them censor what they want their people to see and what they don't want their people to see, like the libraries and such has to do in the U.S. - shouldn't make Google censor something, and have to keep it updated with what crap they do and don't want censored.
- Xuarius, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Some people are so rediculous. The same people complaining about Google abiding by China's free speech laws should not be attacking Google. They should become political activists and fly to China and maybe Digg would be censored and we wouldn't have to deal with them. You always attack the people on the top because you are on the bottom and you hate it don't you. How many times do you use Google a day? Thought so, idiots.
- randyzaia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I should have known that the socialist nutjobs on Digg would have no problem with the Chinese government's suppression of speech. China, Cuba, Venezuela - no amount of suppression is a problem as long as they are pursuing "social justice".
We've now seen the true colors of those smug, self-satisfied Google f*cks. "Do no evil" my ballsack. More like "ten dolla sucky sucky". - emiles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If you want something to think about, one of the primary defenses given by the Nazis at the Nurnberg trials was that they were not guilty, because what they had been doing was legal according to the laws of their own country.
Of course, Google isn't killing anybody, but some things are wrong regardless of the laws of a country and I think blotting out the truth just for an oppressive party to continue their rule is one of them. - cubbieco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Co-operating in the suppression of human rights is NEVER justified."
Since when is freedom of speech a human right? It's an ideal that most countries allow to an extent. It's not a human right and even in the USA it is not absolute.
To quote US founders: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men."
Come on people. They are not withholding food here. Google is not trying to starve the masses here. Chinese people are generally alive, have basic liberty and are mostly happy. Give it a rest. - Diseage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You people sicken me.
Getting in is the first part of the battle. Google never said they agree with the laws, they only comply to them. I think breaking the law is an "evil" but that's just me. Once they get in the country and become a formidable player, then they can try to flex their muscle. But it's hard to instigate change in a country you can't even enter.
Secondly, Google is not protecting "child pornographers" as vvaduva said. They are protecting free speech which is still protected in this country, if not others. The issue at hand here is children _LOOKING AT_ porn. Not naked pictures of kids. Naked pictures of adults, viewed by children.
Meaning, a 17 year old kid can type in "naked ladies" on google (or AOL, or MSN, or Yahoo) and surely enough, a picture of a naked woman might show up.
Google has not said whether they support pornography or not (which the Supreme Court ruled was protected by the First Amendment) but they said they certainly won't make the case for the Government. The Government will have to do it themselves.
At least get the facts before you shoot off your mouth.
Also, We should be doing the same thing, since we need to protect ourselves from the terrorists.
I don't want some terrorist to find out how to make a bomb on the google, and blow it up my ass.
Give me security or give me death!"
I hope you were kidding. You disgrace Paine. Name the last time an individuals "ass" or house was targeted by a foreign terrorist. An INDIVIDUAL. You can't exactly. The only thing you have to fear is the government itself. "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. " Benjamin Franklin. You know, one of those guys that SIGNED that document that is sort of important. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I love how all of these American companies sell out very important principles that form a country that allowed them to become rich and powerful in the first place, just to spread into other new markets. Shame on them.
- SorenG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I read that one of the "outlawed" words is the "Dalai Lama." China says, "No one can search for the Dalai Lama," and Google says "Sounds good to us. How much are you paying us again? Cool." Now, if someone does search for the Dalai Lama, does the government get that info and pay a little visit to the person's house? Can Google really prevent them from knowing who is searching for what? It may even increase the power of the state, giving them more info on who is doing "illegal" acts like trying to get info on the Dalai Lama. I would lovew to know more details. This info in the wrong hands could be very bad.
- BluParadox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Tell me this, whitch would you rather have if you are in China?
A: a censored google
B: no google at all"
Exactly! Why is this a big deal? It's still better for the Chinese people than no search engine (or a government run one). They want a government that censors stuff that's their problem, but nothing even close to within Google's power can make any difference in the matter at all. Might as well do the best you can within the circumstances. Google isnt god people. - bluemech, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How is that evil? Free Speech will continue to be a blight on humanity until people have something worthwhile to say.
- foohookups311, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You idiots who are saying this is an evil move on Google's part should go f themselves because Google is the only one standing up to our US government when they demand search records. Apparently the Google that we all thought would turn evil after going public is actually quite nice and looking out for us.
- TexMachina, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Looks like the Google mirror doesn't work like I remember it. What remains of the site is at this address
http://www.alltooflat.com/geeky/elgoog/m/index.cgi
Can't help wondering why that changed. - multifaceted, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hypocrites.
- buss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The Internet is only a medium. Just like air is a medium. Air cannot be censored, the Internet should be no different. There is no valid defence for preventing people from accessing different ideas or speaking their minds. It is not right - ever - to censor anything. No one should be allowed to control others this way.
I read a comment up above that said something like "if the Chinese people don't like the government, then they should do something about it." The Chinese people have been doing things about it...until they're arrested and locked away for a decade or so /if they're lucky/. The Chinese socialist regime does not take kindly to dissent and they do kill innocent people to keep power. Anyone who expresses unhappiness with the government is a state enemy and will be dealt with as such.
I'm not just someone venting hot air, I'm learning Mandarin Chinese so maybe I can have some sort of positive impact on the lives of Chinese people oppressed by their government. America is the largest importer of Chinese goods (Wal-Mart, anyone?), we have the ability to leverage that and force some change.
Sometimes the human race disgusts me.
--
http://liberdictus.com
Voice Your Opinion - sadsac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Um, like, google isn't the only source of internet content that the chinese government doesn't like. The chinese government would have to block most of the net, which they will probably end up doing.
- UltravioletMars, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Google has it right. The best thing to do is appease the Chinese government. Give them what they want now so that later when things are going well you can win some consessions. Look at how well this worked in Europe in 1939. It wasn't just governments doing this then, it was business too. Any thing for a buck I guess...
- TexMachina, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Can the Chinese still use http://elgooG.com to sneak past the censors? It's been a while since this trick was learned so I am assuming they can't anymore.
As I recall this Google mirror was little more than a joke site before it was found to useful for circumventing censors. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0it's either:
1) Censor search results (china)
2) Allow you to search whatever you want and have the gobernment take a peek at what you're searching for. That might be so bad, unless you consider secret courts, outsourced prisons, and an illiterate population that doesn't even understand its own laws & constitution whenever it suits them. (united states)
big fkkking difference.
*shrugs* - TheRappingShoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is the same lame argument that was used to justify co-operating with the apatite regime in South Africa - "we should respect their laws", "we can do more good by co-operating". Pathetic.
Co-operating in the suppression of human rights is NEVER justified. Ever. - Diseage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Also, instead of blaming Google for complying with laws, how about you guys actually blame the government who placed those laws? Instead of blaming a player, blame the game. Honestly. Google is not censoring the results on their own. They are censoring because they HAVE to. Change the law, and the results are no longer censored.
- theuber1337, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In soviet china! Internet censors you!
- elamr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How is google "evil" by this action? By not imposing our ways on the Chinese?
Why do so many of us Americans think that every other country is wrong in the way they run things? I'm not down with "moral relativism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism (sounds great, but the flaw is that you can justify ANYTHING and be right).
They have their own way of doing things. Is it right for me to go across the street, kick down my neighor's door and force them to give up Mormonism because I do not agree with it? Imposing our views on another country is against what I've always thought America stood for.
Besides, if the 3 BILLION people of China are fed up with oppression then, wouldn't they do something about it?
And think about this: if the chinese became capitalistic and "free" you could kiss America's ass good bye (and I'm not taking about Nukes I'm talking about something worse... buying power in the hands of the chinese citizens). If you don't get what I'm saying wait about 5-10 more years and you will see. - muikano, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I forgot to add that Google is headed up by Americans. The question is whether or not Americans should subject other countries to American idealism. Because the founders are American they have a vested interest in seeing the American form of democracy upheld.
If you'd just read the Constituion, and compare it with the laws of other countries, you'd understand why it's so important that Americans defend American basics. Like Search and seizure and balance of power. That's a lot more important and helluva lot more righteous than defending American ideals in a foriegn land. - firef0x, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0e·vil (ē'vəl) pronunciation
adj., e·vil·er, e·vil·est.
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice. -
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