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- Sox2, on 10/10/2007, -14/+37title is misleading - i was expecting a story about a chronic wanker.
- cooterthekid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+20It would sure be nice if Palm took this into consideration. I have owned 5 different Palm models and this is my first year I'm considering changing manufacturers when my upgrade comes along. :-(
- shiftclick, on 10/10/2007, -2/+18This is a terrific read. I'm a former 600 user and my wife still has her clunky 650. I'm an iPhone user now (ok and a Blackjack user) and I truly appreciate the power of a good design in a small, nimble package. Wake up Palm!!!
- vandy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12This company needs extreme focus. I don't even know who owns them anymore, or whose OS they run? ACCESS? Palm? I realize enterprise users think they need Windows on the Palm, but my god man, give it up. The interface is wretched and tiny. Stick with your own OS and work with developers.
I own the 650, but I haven't enjoyed using a Palm since my Handspring Visor. I agree completely with this letter, well done Engadget. Smaller, sleeker, faster, and more storage. The idea behind the Foleo is great for business people who really don't need a full fledged laptop, and I like it - but now is not the time. Redesign the phone, make it a great small data and communications tool and the Foleo conept will follow. - luxette, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9I was a big-time Palm partisan back in the day, but these days the company has become a dead man walking. It's just a matter of time before they fade away entirely.
What a waste. - SniperSlap, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9How about supporting your old PDA products properly and offering upgraded OSses for them?
My TX is a piece of *****. I still feel burned off by this purchase, such a waste of my god damn early adopter money. - SPThom, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Great read. I didn't know Engadget did editorials, but if they're all as good as this, I'll have to keep an eye out.
I just use a Palm TX at work--no smartphone--but I've thought to myself Palm ought to do many of the things this article covers... Especially to embrace open formats. For instance, the hoops you have to jump through to sync a Google Calendar to a Palm? Yuck... Terrible. - DonCarcharo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7I hung on with Palm/US Robotics/3COM/Palm/PalmOne/Palm as long as I possibly could then eventually defected to Windows Mobile. I've never been happy with the switch but I can't say I regret it either. Sure I hate Windows Mobile, can't stand it, but it's a bit more capable than the beleaguered Palm OS so here I am.
It's sad, really, that to this point we've had a head to head competition between a dying OS and one that should be put out of it's misery. It's no wonder Apple was able to generate some noise in this market. The competition is pathetic. - WarMace, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Right on, every time I go for a Smart Phone Treo is the top of my list, but still not useful enough to be worth of the added expenses.
- pinkert11, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Sorry Palm, I am moving on. I manage our IT dept at work, and I and upper mgnt love the Palm. We have used for over 10 years, back to before the treo was a treo. We used for our Exces, and sales force in Canada, USA South Africa, China, Mexico and Argentina. I have multiple iAnywere servers (= a BES server) that cost a few thousand each.
Last week, the US division went Black berry curves, next week Canada does, and then the rest. I have to admit, I thought I would never give up my Treo 650, tux edition presented to me by Palm. But, it has sat in my desk for two weeks and I now I can't think of why I would take it back out. I have to say I am really liking the Curve. It is small, sleek, fast, amazing battery and has a nice camera. This, to me, is the Treo killer. - geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5We really could use a flowchart to explain what the hell happened to Palm...
Palm was bought by US Robotics, which was then bought by 3Com. Some employees left 3Com-Palm and made Handspring. Palm was IPO'd from 3Com. Palm set up PalmSource to handle its software development. Palm Inc bought Handspring, renaming itself PalmOne. PalmOne finally buys PalmSource back into the company, renaming the whole thing "Palm". And then some private equity company bought 25% of palm in June.
The ACCESS deal was Palm licensing the OS and tools for their Garnet platform. - mpn401, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I used to use Palm handhelds until I switched to a PPC when I got tired of them not supporting handhelds and rereleasing the same Treo phone over and over again (WOW, the new model comes without an external antenna!).
Y'know, some of us actually want seperate phones and PDAs. - bigredgpk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Going from a T-Mobile MDA to a Treo 755p is a nice upgrade.
Treo 650 to 680 is not so compelling. Palm's POS CDMA offerings are top notch, but the POS GSM phones are def lacking. I'll hold onto my Palm and wait to see what the POS II has to offer. But Palm is on borrowed time. - geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Well, they have had similar business styles for years, partially because they were created by some of the same people and shared employees, and have a very similar corporate culture, but also in the way they (used to) market their tools, the niche within a niche.
The problem is, they've put out the same exact product with a small change in hardware (mainly chip upgrades) and a small change in software, but all the while adding nothing in terms of bells or whistles or killer apps. Some would say "don't mess with perfection", but even perfection gets tiresome and you just need a change. The Treo's LCD form factor is stagnant, the touchscreen is too small to make any real use of it, almost no candy-bar form factor smartphone has an antenna dangling off the top of it anymore, and its software is incredibly old and inflexible and really showing bitrot through and through. They really need a revolutionary new product, and the iPhone is herolded as that, so why not try to copy some of the better features of the iPhone (or the Helio phones, or the RIM phones)? - snotrokit, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4AMEN! I have had palms since they were born. I still have my Palm VII somewhere in a box. Palm has failed to innovate. They were #1, nobody could touch them. Everybody else was struggling to become what they were, remember when everyone referred to PDA's as Palm's? Just like Kleenex is to tissue. Then they sat down, patted themselves on the back and really have not done much since. I now have a drawer FULL of Treo 650's and boxes of dead old palms that are insignificant. Palm has become insiginificant. SInce then, I have had HTC Windows Mobile devices. Love the device but Windows mobile sucks, a few Symbians, and have settled on RIM's and a BES for my 50+ users.
- pevensen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I've been a loyal Palm and Treo user for many years. Currently the iPhone doesn't do as much as my Treo 650 (but it does things the 650 can't). I hope Palm listens.
I don't need or want a Foleo (what were they thinking?).
I want a modern smart-phone that has more than 24M of memory! - cdmarcus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3They used to be known for their great, rock-solid, easy-to-use products... but their latest non-phone models are terrible. The TX's wi-fi is slow as hell, and their browser is pathetic. Going to http://en.wikipedia.org actually causes the device to reboot. They've been making mobile browsers for a lot longer than Apple, but Apple's first mobile browser kicks the ***** out of theirs. The OS crashes all the time, and still has a flat filesystem; even if you use a FAT SD card, it still presents the files on it in a flat list.
As for hardware, it's just as bad, if not worse. The screen on the TX is a piece of *****... it feels mushy and plasticky to write on, and the most frequently used parts of the digitizer wear out over the course of a day and revive themselves after about 2 days of not being used. Since the LifeDrive uses a lot of the same hardware, I'm assuming it has much of the same problems. I owned a Zire 72, and if it were still working, I'd go back to it from the TX despite the TX's larger screen and wi-fi. - srusso, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Great read! Very well said thank you...
- iandouglas736, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Heck, if they took this article to heart and added the wifi we've been begging them for, to have an open software base with SDK and the means for developers to tweak their own interface and apps ... heck if they also threw in a GPS chip, they'd have an OpenMoko Neo1973. Looks like Engadget just took the features list from OpenMoko's site and wrote an article about it, explaining why each feature is important to users, and addressed it to Palm.
I've used a Treo 700w since the spring of this year and I just gave it back to my employer 'cause I hate Windows Mobile. I'm in the market for a new smartphone, but nothing Palm has interests me any more. Not sure whether to wait for the consumer edition of the Neo1973 or look at something else. - fanboydcs, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5sshd options please:-)
- TheKricket, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6ohhhhhh - THAT palm...not mine...
i get it now... - drlha, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4"Y'know, some of us actually want seperate phones and PDAs."
Perhaps, but you're in an ever shrinking minority that these days isn't even big enough to support and industry. Have you taken a look at sales of PDAs recently? Nobody is buying them any more, that ship has sailed back in the early 2000s. - nurall, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3ive got a 650p and its been the best phone ive ever had. lately ive seen treo's everywhere, this wasnt the case when i got the 600.
- FyreGoddess, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Blackberries always feel cheap in my hand. Seriously... they're too lightweight for the size and it feels incredibly fragile.
- xGrill, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4I love the razor ad on this page -->
oh the irony - neodorian, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2No *****! I've been using my Treo 650 for not quite 2 years now. It's easily the best phone I've ever had but they haven't offered much reason for me to get a new model. If this one could get on the EVDO network like the newer ones I might have just kept it longer, but as it is, I think I'm gonna get the new HTC when my contract runs out. I give props to Palm for giving me features in the Treo that I now consider essential (touch screen, qwerty keyboard, shoutcast radio streaming) but I would very much like to see them keep up with this innovation and bring their hardware and software up to date. This article hits all of the things I'd like to see (better browser, etc) and I agree with most of the points they make.
- superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I loved Palm's as PDA's, but I waited for years for a Treo I could love and never got one. Now an iPhone user, and happy to boot.
I have said all along the iPhone is the device Palm could have built two years ago if they had focused energy the way they did with the original Palm design. It's way past time they re-thought UI. - mattijzz, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5So right, so right. As a 650 owner I don't know what to upgrade to, Palm isn't showing something compelling in Europe. Besides all my friends laughs at my clunky phone...I reply that is a useful tool but that doesn't help a lot anymore. Since there are sexier useful tools nowadays.
- Evil_Gungan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I just want a PDA and not a entertainment system in my pocket. If my Visor had not broke I would still be using it. Taking notes at a meeting on a phone with a small screen and ***** battery life does not appeal to me. When the stand alone PDA finally dies off I will buy old used ones as long as I can and then go back to paper.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The iPhone is not a smartphone to anybody that *really* needs one. Look which people is buying it, look what its target market is.
- EvilGeniusTodd, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3God isn't that the truth. I remember thinking my Treo 270(and my palm 1, III, and handspring before that) was the bee knee's back in 2003. But when it came time to upgrade in 2005. I had to sit back and really look at the devices available. I considered the pathetic Nokia 3220 an upgrade at that point. These days I don't see a single Palm product that could compel me to part with as little as €100. And you can completely forget about €400-600 for any of their flagship products. If I was going to spend that kind of money I would be a fool to get anything but a Nokia or an Iphone.
- spiralspirit, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2because palm isnt offering an upgrade thats worth upgrading to. The advantages of the more expensive palm units just arent good enough, and the blackberry phones are providing that incentive.
- mastercko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Sure, in that they're telling them to INNOVATE, or did you miss that part (the entire thrust of their open letter)?
- MadKennyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The Treo was great in its day. I would've bought one to replace my work-induced Blackberry, but c'mon, Palm has to AT LEAST upgrade that low-res screen.
- Tezgno, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I have a Treo 650 and, like others have said, outside of EVDO, I have not had a reason to want to upgrade to a different Treo phone. I like the phone because I can get push email from my job and keep up with calendar events, but other than that, the phone has been plagued with problems. It constantly locks up on me and, a lot of times, it gets stuck in the off or on positions. Even with hard resets and the latest updates from Sprint, the phone isn't that reliable. The same goes with other Treo phones that I have used. I use to be a big Palm and Handspring guy and, back in the day, the Treo did exactly what I needed it to do. However, those times have changed and I find myself needing a phone that allows for me to do more than one thing at a time, that is much smaller and lighter, and offers more software and better reliability. For Palm to keep up with the competition, they are going to need innovation. Innovation in both the phone and the OS.
- spiralspirit, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I used to read ebooks and do my scheduling on the z22.
When I renewed my cell phone contract, I got a Motorala Q, which has the same scheduling, etc and ebook reading ***** on it, as well as being a decent phone and not a bad mp3 player. So I hold a single device about the size of the z22, with a better screen, more functions, and free with my cell phone plan.
but if you are just looking for a super plain pda, the z22 is golden. - neodorian, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2It's good that there are a variety of devices that should fit what you need more. You could probably benefit from either a UMPC or just a notebook (either digital or old-school). For someone like me, it's more about connectivity and having a few common devices in one. I like having a phone that is also a PDA, mp3 player, email/web browser, and streaming radio. I understand that isn't what everyone wants but there is definitely a market for it. Since a lot of people carry a phone and an mp3 player already, having a few of those types of things in your pocket in one device is very convenient. Also being able to look up any info I need wherever I go has saved my ass and won me a few bar bets in my time.
- chuhsi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2amen. i've had the palm III, palm V, treo 300, treo 600, treo 700p, and now treo 755p. if things don't change soon with palm, the 755p will be my last.
- monknj80, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3I'm a Treo 650 user and love it. Texting is fast and easy. Touchscreen is great, internet is bearable. Speed is good. I used the docs app frequently. Calender and contacts work flawlessly. Video and camera is OK, I do use it occasionally. Navigation is simple. the Iphone i overrated and pricey the next generation might be nice, but I'm not too impressed. Not sure what my next phone will be, but blackberry is looking nice. I need a touch screen and full qwerty keypord.
- MadChicken, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's good to see I'm not alone in strongly agreeing with this. When my Tungsten E died a little while back, I switched... to index cards and a space pen. Nope, it's definitely not good enough, but better than anything else out there. I refuse to buy a Palm until they do something right.
- mixplate, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1t2 was my favorite pda. if palm just up the power on the t|x and put on firefox based browser, id purchase another palm pda.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1oh noes! LemonPartyKenny has 'reported' me! Oh the searing shock of being reported by LemonPartyKenny!
- kaarlows, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Agreed in everything they said, and I would add 2 other things:
—get rid of those blister ugly packages. They are really hard and dangerous to open and have a cheap aspect comparing to the elegant boxes made by Apple to it's products;
—Don't stop making palmtops! They are great for some markets (like some 3rd world countries). - blackbrutha, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1 Palm is dead. I sold my 700p and got an Iphone. That whole maintenance release fiasco did it for me. As a company they suck. Their releasing foleos, while their competitor (apple) is putting the final nails in their coffin. So lpng palm, you used to kick *ss no you suck.
- ultrasource, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13 treo wx's on sprint in 2 weeks for me before i finally tossed it for good. been loyal since my original imac colored handspring. one more lost customer. work gave me a Q. far from perfect but i can do anything on it that i did on my treo (i know not technically more BUT i can tether, open/edit word docs, etc) and it fits in my pocket better. f palm. it's not 1998 anymore.
- superkendall, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2So in other words you're extremely please with the 650, but looking at a Blackberry.
If you were really pleased with your phone why would you be thinking about a different model? - manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4As long as my Palm continues with Linux support Palm and I will stay BFF.
- basye, on 10/10/2007, -5/+6I chose a 755p over the iPhone.
Palm should reward people like myself with a better OS for business users. - S1L3NTC, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2That's right. The iKnowWhatYou'reDoing is an incredibly stupid phone.
- ren1999, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I was a long time Palm fan. My previous Palm was a T5 and the screen was great. The OS and the third party software is great. But Pocket Tunes music player zapped the firmware dead and I bought a Palm TX.
The Palm TX's screen is terrible. I can see where Palm tried to save the money. After only a few months there is a lot of dead space. I can't even use the stylus in the upper left of the screen. I will never buy another Palm. I am still using it but with the buttons at the bottom to control the screen widgets. I'll wait for Linux mobile to come out and install it on a highly rated mobile device PMP, which there are many now. Any recommendations? -
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