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Logarithmic Spirals: Hurricanes and Galaxies

apod.nasa.gov — Uncomfortably close Typhoon Rammasun and 25 million light-year distant galaxy M101 don't seem to have much in common. But they do...

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  • Mard, on 05/17/2008, -2/+48I'm not a physicist, but if I'm not mistaken these two examples of logarithmic spirals are formed by similar processes. In the case of galaxies, gravity (including that of the super dense galactic center) pulls matter towards the center, and the spiral seems to be the shape that matter creates as it is pulled inwards. Cyclones form in a similar manner, in that an area of low pressure begins to pull energy (atmospheric moisture) towards it and given the right conditions (an already present disturbance) it all begins to spiral inwards rather than moving in a straight line. Another process that is similar to these two is water traveling down the drain. I always had fun as a kid making whirlpools with my hand and trying to make little hurricanes on the water's surface. Oh and let's not forget the formation of a star system!

    I find it interesting that in space, in our atmosphere, and in water... spirals form when matter is pulled from all directions towards a single point. I wonder how flattened spirals form in space, however, when there are three dimensions they should be able to travel through? The pattern seems to be spiral -> sphere (once matter collects in sufficient quality, it begins to form a planet/star/etc)... but I'm curious why the flat spiral forms rather than some other more complex three-dimensional shape. Is there some sort of resistance to nearby objects involved, and the flatter shape forms in response to that resistance?

    Hold up. Thinking about the cyclones and whirlpools, both form in response to eddies in the atmosphere or water. Without the eddies, neither cyclones or water going down a drain forms a very clear vortex. However, if you get it started with a really good disturbance, it will begin to spin really fast. Could there be similar processes at work in space, perhaps dark matter (being matter we cannot yet observe, whether that matter is omnipresent or not remains to be seen) is in constant motion and occasional eddies form which causes the "whirlpool" shaped galaxies that we see...

    I need to stop, my head is spinning. All puns were unintentional.
    • bratterscain, on 05/17/2008, -3/+3"I wonder how flattened spirals form in space, however, when there are three dimensions they should be able to travel through?"

      Speaking from a basic high school education, I'd say because of the polarization of the matter. So when it's spinning, it's naturally going to lengthen into probably an oval-shaped profile.
    • Qeveren, on 05/17/2008, -2/+1The matter in the spiral arms of galaxies doesn't generally move inwards. The spiral arms are formed by density waves traveling through the galactic disk.
    • Exbzurq, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2I think it has to do with centripetal forces. When something is trying to move in one direction but is tethered to something (in this case gravity in the center) it begins to travel around in a circle around the object it is tethered to. Because the object is still trying to move in a different direction it flattens out as the two forces of movement battle it out.
    • 3leggedHorse, on 05/18/2008, -3/+1 Absolutely Thermo-Dynamics, Hydro-Dynamics and Astronomy have many likenesses because of gravity. If scientist but these together, then maybe they would have a better understanding of how the known Universe works.
    • MacSuxWindozSux, on 05/18/2008, -1/+2They look similar and they spin.
      That's about where the similarities end.

      In one you have a huge gravity well from quantum singularities, aggregate mass and supposed "Dark Matter" and in the other you have pockets of low and high pressure, mixed with high humidity and a nitrogen oxygen atmosphere over water.

  • macosta5811, on 05/17/2008, -3/+6The issue is logarithmic spirals "a simple and beautiful mathematical curve [...] a spiral whose separation grows in a geometric way with increasing distance from the center" Amazing!
    Thanks APOD, I discovered Fibonacci, Tool and Lateralus!!!! Great!!!
  • dp2ihs, on 05/17/2008, -2/+10Anybody seen "π" by Darren Aronofsky? The protagonist, mathematician Maximilian Cohen (played by Sean Gullette) is seeing spirals everywhere. There is a whole short sequence making that same comparison between plants, nautilus and prosobranchia, eddies and vortexes, typhoons and hurricanes; and galaxies.
    What does all that have to do with 3.14159265358979323846264338327950...? Beats me. But be warned. Cohen drifts into stock market and Kaballah numerology, fear of ants sabotaging his behemoth of a computer, and bouts of migraine. He also posits that the magical number, the answer to *the* question is 216 (not 42).
    Anyway, great APOD, as always!
  • gavinonymous, on 05/17/2008, -1/+1Dugg
    Looks to me like a drain hole into the next spatial dimension. A guy last week on the news described looking up through a tornado as it passed over him. He said he could see straight up through to blue sky.
    Since there's a black hole in the center of the galaxy - if it's like a cyclone/hurricane eye - black holes might be conduits in the next spatial dimension. The manifold of 4 dimensional space-time could have very strange rope-like structures and loops for all we know. How many dimensions are used in string theory now, 11?
    • yaddayaddayoda, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1Does the galaxy drain clockwise or counterclockwise?
      • gavinonymous, on 05/18/2008, -0/+3Wouldn't it depend on which side you look at the galaxy from?
        • yaddayaddayoda, on 05/20/2008, -0/+1There you go... PAYING ATTENTION!
  • GOVStooge, on 05/17/2008, -4/+171 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 ...
  • diggester, on 05/17/2008, -2/+2More hurricanes photo from above:

    http://www.linkinn.com/_Hurricanes_From_Above_See_ ...
  • possiblyneil, on 05/17/2008, -2/+10Did we not just have a post on Fibonacci sequences/numbers?
  • BedPost, on 05/17/2008, -3/+1All these Fibonacci posts are gold... laterally mind blowing.

    ...sorry.
  • soot, on 05/17/2008, -3/+19***** YEAH I LOVE LOGARITHMIC SPIRALS
  • mjones77, on 05/17/2008, -4/+2Here is a real good hurricane picture from space. http://uploadingit.com/view/611545_0mtr5
  • suckaPU, on 05/17/2008, -5/+5it's God making pretty artwork for us to enjoy!
    • JoeHague, on 05/17/2008, -5/+1Some God- I could make images like that on a spiral graph when i was 6.
    • taradisiac, on 05/18/2008, -1/+2That's a very self-centered view of the Universe.
  • Hoprot, on 05/17/2008, -0/+3This is good, but remember, these are logarithmic spirals ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_spiral ), not golden spirals. Not everything is related to the Fibonacci sequence!
  • bj1989, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2Fascinating to see that the very same laws of physics that form the few kilometers wide hurricane apply to a Galaxy thousands(?) of light years wide.
  • teambosun, on 05/17/2008, -0/+3It's amazing that even though the universe is so vast, complex, and unknown, it's still governed by very simple rules.
  • PRINCESS209, on 05/17/2008, -3/+0wow thats hecksa kool! ♥
  • DeadlyCouncil, on 05/17/2008, -1/+3"We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been"
  • AHHHHH, on 05/17/2008, -2/+2APOD --> instant digg.
  • PRINCESS209, on 05/17/2008, -2/+0this is such a cool picture!
  • Lane, on 05/17/2008, -3/+2Explanation: No matter what scale everything is simply gravities bitch.
  • thatsoccerkid, on 05/17/2008, -1/+1logarithmic spirals happen when i flush (+ weird......
  • rollerboy, on 05/17/2008, -1/+2We may not be the centre of the universe but it's like we ARE the universe.
  • mikebritton, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1Can someone tell us the difference between the logarithmic spiral and the golden ratio (phyllotaxis) occurring in nature? Are they not the same thing, or at the least strikingly similar?
    • GOVStooge, on 05/18/2008, -1/+1Yes. Same thing.
    • Hoprot, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1The golden spiral is a logarithmic spiral with a growth rate of the golden ratio ((1+sqrt(5))/2), which has no concrete examples in nature. Logarithmic spirals are a class of spirals which have a constant growth rate, thus their shape appears similar at all magnifications, like a fractal, which is why they often occur in independent natural phenomena. No one spiral defines all spirals found in nature, and the Fibonacci sequence isn't a magical, all-pervasive relation.
  • 3leggedHorse, on 05/18/2008, -2/+2 Galaxies look simalar to hurricanes no *****, gravaity rules bitches and bitchesses.
    • mclaincausey, on 05/18/2008, -1/+0Actually, gravity is the weakest of the four forces, so it doesn't "rule." Strong nuclear force is the bomb! :P
  • 3leggedHorse, on 05/18/2008, -0/+3We are all just riders on a storm.
  • taradisiac, on 05/18/2008, -1/+3This just goes to show how far we've gone when it comes to understanding the Universe, and how long is the road ahead.
    But hopefully one day we'll decipher its true nature, and fulfill our destiny: Killing God and taking its place.
    • franksalvo, on 05/18/2008, -0/+2?
    • aristotle0dude, on 05/18/2008, -0/+2You seriously need to stay off the shrooms man. I'd suggest seeing a shrink about your God complex.

      Why are atheists the ones that seems to be the most obsessed with God?
      • cwgannon, on 05/18/2008, -0/+2It's God as an idea. Think outside of the box.
  • 3leggedHorse, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1Use Piclens and type galaxies into the flickr search, The wall looks quite amazing.
  • Pinkertinkle, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1They found that in the cornea of the eye too:
    http://www.iovs.org/content/vol48/issue4/cover.sht ...
    That can't be caused by gravity.
  • sfour, on 05/18/2008, -1/+1I'm going to have to start ending all of my blog posts with: "...and of course, cauliflower."
  • gfail, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1How come hurricanes on earth destroy, and hurricanes in space build?
    • allengeer, on 05/18/2008, -0/+2hurricanes in space are not really building. The spiral galaxy is the result of a bunch of light meeting its untimely death in a black hole.
    • gfail, on 05/20/2008, -0/+1ah, so we all dying... sweet.
  • parkernicky50, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1nice post
  • dasmonki, on 05/18/2008, -0/+2To swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...
  • encrypteduser, on 05/18/2008, -0/+1The Fibonacci in Lateralus

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY
  • gagliardi, on 05/20/2008, -0/+0very cool, especially the other links provided. Loved the cauliflower...
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