What is Digg?107 Comments
- AriZoney, on 10/12/2007, -2/+64Well, you don't actually survive the whole passing the event horizon experience by employing this technique.
Still. I guess whatever extra time you do manage will either be spent trying to come up with a more permanent solution or tripping balls a-la 2001, or staring blankly at the "Don't Panic" on the cover of that book that suddenly isn't much help, or...
... man I'm such a nerd. - DiggFight, on 10/11/2007, -3/+54Flying Spaghetti Monster does not approve of Spaghettification.
- chicken101, on 10/11/2007, -3/+441) DON'T PANIC
2) DON'T FORGET TO BRING A TOWEL - Arbus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+38If you spin your spaceship around really quickly in the correct way so that inertia balances out the immense gravity, you should be able to avoid this whole spaghetti unpleasantness. Even the slightest miscalculation, however, will result in complete raviolification (which is much worse).
- dr-steve, on 10/11/2007, -1/+37Yeah, well here's another:
.....My parents went to a planet where they lack bilateral symmetry and all they got me was this lousy F-shirt...
Steve - fcain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27You're not really avoiding spaghetification. Just extending the time you get to experience it. You're doomed, no question.
- vizerei, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19Yeah, kind of inaccurate. You don't survive, you just live a little longer so you can watch your body ripped into little pieces.
- Technopundit, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17I'll remember this next time I'm at the DMV.
- macaddct1984, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17This whole thread is full of nerd.
- trollick, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17Because it is well known how to destroy space and it is easy to do? One can come up with all kinds of "space drives" based on magic or stuff pulled straight out of ones ass.
- chris9902, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16does this happen often then?
- shewasjustagrl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Mm... spaghetti...
- Cyber_Akuma, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17Actually, if you RTFA, you'll notice that you will actually NOT brb.
- dr-steve, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17Here's something I've wondered about:
I remember reading a proposal for a "space drive" that completely avoids the problem of time dilation, etc. The key problems with high velocity travel, and one associated with this article, is that of travel *through* space.
What was proposed was not quite a warp drive. Instead, it operated on the principle of *destroying* space on one side of the travel container, and *creating* space on the other.
That's right -- destroy actual space, suck its energy out, eliminate it from the fabric of spacetime. Create an equal volume on the other side. Poof - you've moved. Well, moved, sort of, your location is different, but you neither accelerated nor decelerated. As such, there is no time dilation; your location changes as quickly as you can destroy/create space. (Alternative view, based upon spacetime equivalence, your location change (in xyzt) is a function of your ability to create/destroy space (xyzt) - how much volume you can create/destroy in a given time.)
Inertia and moving mass is not an issue.
So, with this form of "drive", what is the impact of being inside the event horizon? Can the space between you and "outside" the event horizon be destroyed and replaced? If so, is this the path out?
-Steve - CapeKid, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15Last time the Cylons attacked and we didn't have time to plot our jump coordinates. After spooling up the FTL and jumping, one of the ships in the fleet ended up in a black hole.
- merripen, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15It's a unique experience that you won't get to try again any time soon - may as well have it last as long as you can.
- futureisours, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Very misleading. All you need to do in this instance would be to bounce negative tachyon particles from the main deflector dish. The resulting singularity will bounce the ship out of the black hole and safely away.
Article DUGG DOWN! - n3xu5, on 10/11/2007, -8/+19I survived a black hole and all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
- Ventiron, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12*Brain explodes*
- JSager, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Pfft everyone knows you just turn around and drive your ship right into the black hole... you'll emerge in an alternate universe where everyone is evil and has goatees. Or, given the state of Gen Y facial hair, probably an alternate universe where NOBODY has goatees.
- Cyber_Akuma, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Mmmmmmmmm, quantum pastaics.
- durru7, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Bookmarked for later use.
- raynar, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Or, since you can see a black hole from about 20 gabillion miles away...turn around.
- clark1001, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12yeah...IANAA (I Am Not An Astrophysicist), but something tells me that destroying space-time is very much against the rules of everything.
- gopher043, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Actually I would be to busy kissing my brown hole good bye.
- Cyber_Akuma, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Those kinds of engines seem highly improbable.
Hmm, improbable, ...... actually, that gives me an idea for an engine. - marm0t, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9You wouldnt see this stretching, in fact you would percieve your surroundings to be moving at normal speed while anyone observing would just see you frozen in time or something like that. They did it in Stargate SG-1, so i believe it.
- benjic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Huh?
- vhtrading, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Inaccurate title. The article is about "Maximizing Survival Time...", not "How to Survive...". You'll still die no matter what.
- krets, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I put one of those on my G6 and it made the folks in my neighborhood really mad.
- Theoxenmooving, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6No. Although you are correct that radiation would orbit the hole at the event horizon, black holes grow. Therefore, it would only be the accumuliated energy of a short period of time.
Any older engery would have been sucked in long ago by the growing black hole.
No doubt, though, that the energy from the _accreation disk_ would fry you. (although some black holes don't have an accreation disk.) - Jholder112233, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Really misleading title, I was hoping to go to blackholes for my holidays but all hope has now been lost.
- zeptobyte, on 10/11/2007, -6/+12Glad to see some useful, practical articles going on Digg for a change.
- sjbdallas, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Did they bounce away? I thought they accellerated through the other side within a bubble produced by the tachyon burst.
- Uranium118, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4You can't see a black hole, but you can observe its effect on the other things and have a good idea of where it is.
- trer, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Yes many men have experienced "singularity" with that black hole.
- formergthing, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Wrong. Black holes do suck up light, but it does not reach the same point of singularity as other matter. In fact it explodes from the black hole and is immediately sucked back in. Black holes would actually be the brightest, hottest objects in our sky if they could give off any light at all.
Still, you would probably be beyond the speghetification point before you hit the point where there is light.
I saw an IMAX on black holes recently and I never though the knowledge gained would be useful. Guess I forgot about Digg. - JorgeGT, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Oh god I actually understand steve's joke!
Don't kid to me, I won't get laid ever, will I? - Azselendor, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3As useful as this is, my insurance company won't sell me any insurance in case I fall into a black hole.
- CrimsonBlur, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2What you describe is really a workaround for the fact that it's impossible to travel faster than light. Instead of actually traveling through normal space at the speed of light or faster, the concept is to warp space-time so you actually have to travel a very short distance to reach a point in space that is very far away, thereby avoiding having to travel at relativistic speeds. However, destroying space-time as you describe it here is impossible, and even if it weren't, it would be totally unnecessary.
You don't destroy anything, you simply warp space-time around the ship, making your destination "closer" and your point of origin "farther away". This method is similar to creating a wormhole from point A to point B, except you would not have to rely on sustaining a stable wormhole indefinitely, and you would not have to be at any specific place to travel through a worm hole. Of course the disadvantage is it would basically be like Star Trek "warp drive" in that you would have to compute a course ahead of time to ensure you wouldn't run into anything, because there would be no time to react, so for extremely long distances the wormhole method would be a much better option. - snkscore, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4There is only 1 problem. As soon as you cross over the event horizon you will be met with millions of years of light that has been forever trapped on the edge of the event horizon. You will be instantly vaporized.
- sjbdallas, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I'm inclined to believe that what is needed is a combination of this method and accelleration along a hyperbolic spiral. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_spiral
Although, i suppose that might result in you surviving forever but still trapped. - gopher043, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3In theory if you fly your spaceship into the sun you will burn up, but that is just theory since no one has done it yet.
- GeneralFault, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@dclowd9901
You actually experience both situations. While falling into a black hole, the gravity will stretch space-time (as you describe) but it is also powerful enough that you will feel, then be ripped apart by the fact that the gravity at your feet is millions of times stronger than the gravity at your head. This is similar to how the gravity of the earth stronger on the side of the moon facing the earth than on the dark side, and thus slightly stretches the moon into an oblong shape. Similarly the gravity of the moon pulling on the earth is strongest on the side of the earth facing the moon, which is why there is a high tide not once daily, but twice (as the ocean is stretched into an oblong shape).
So your space-time is stretched AND your physical being within that space-time is stretched.
Edit: Beat to it by plaguemonkey. That's what I get for reading the story hours ago, then posting without refreshing the comments section. Cheers. - fcain, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It's not your time that was wasted. It was a physicist that wanted to clear up some misconceptions about black hole physics. Perhaps someone needs to come and nitpick how you spend your time.
- noisey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I was watching the Discovery Channel the other day and a Physicist was talking about survival in a Black Hole.
He explained that as you travel down the hole, time goes by faster outside the hole, and you can view the events outside the hole. Even though you eventually die, you may live long enough to see the end of the universe! It was very interesting. - dr-steve, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Really cool when you do, Jorge. Gotta find someone who understands the joke as well. Then you're sunk for life. And imagine the kids.
Another test for your fiancee: Time to respond and response for this one: "Two mathematicians are watching a building. Someone enters. Someone else enters. Three people leave. One mathematician turns to the other and says, 'If someone else goes into that building, it'll be empty.'" - dr-steve, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2First, it is NOT impossible to travel faster than the speed of light. All that is stated is that it is impossible to accelerate along a continuous velocity curve TO the speed of light (assuming your speed is less than C). (From the other side, it is impossible to decelerate along a continuous velocity curve to the speed of light from a speed greater than C.) This is the relationship between pumping acceleration/energy into the system; some is manifested as a change in velocity, some as a change in mass, all in an asymptotic manner.
In a massless environment, all arguments are off (check up on your science fiction's inertialess drive).
As to the "impossibility" of destroying spacetime, I cannot either support its possibility nor its impossibility. Clarke's law: Five hundred years of technology is indistinguishable from magic.
I will agree with you, both wormhole drives and warp drives are proposed methods of traveling at what appears to be FTL. The method I discussed is neither as *it does not involve travel*!!!! That is, you do not move in a real sense, hence, changes in velocity, FTL travel, inertia, time dilation are not part of the system.
Other areas to check out that may have related effects (relocation without travel): (1) the Infinite Improbability Drive, (2) recent experiments with tangled particles.
Steve - mykos, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2When really smart people get bored...
- dr-steve, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I agree, the method isn't currently known. It was proposed, I believe, by some astrophysicist whose name I forget; I think I read about it in Science News (or possibly in SciAm) several years back. Sorry I can't provide a better reference... The knowledge was sucked away by a black hole stuck in my brain...
Note that you are creating and destroying space in equal volumes, so there is no loss in spacetime. I had the same concerns about change in the regularity/structure of space, esp. if spacetime is indeed quantized (per some current theories). As to the cost of the operation; well, we are creating as much as destroying; the energy expense of one may be balanced (plus or minus entropy/work costs) by the energy of the other. (Air conditioning doesn't really "create" cold; it moved energy from one place (inside my room, now at 72 degrees) to another (outside my room, now at 80 degrees). I'm not paying for the creation of cold or heat; my cost is for the transport of the energy.)
And on the impracticality of not knowing how to do this? Hey, we're being as practical as the initial discussion, near-lightspeed drives and surviving (for a while, at least) encounters with a black hole!!!!!! (Many-layered ;-) here!)
If the black hole is sufficiently large, you may well "survive" for many many years. You may die of old age. It may be argued that the black hole didn't kill you, it just limited your mobility for a period...
-Steve -
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