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- MaxxusFlamus, on 07/16/2009, -0/+18Instead we practically went backwards.
- OrqwithVagrant, on 07/16/2009, -0/+15I guess it's as they say: the opposite of pro is con, and the opposite of progress is congress.
- snowrail, on 07/16/2009, -0/+14It's heartbreaking that the US -- and really, the world -- has continually given priority to pointless wars and military spending over scientific progress. The Vietnam war was a better investment than a moon colony?
- Ghostalker, on 07/16/2009, -0/+11NASA passes that money on to private contractors, developers, and research labs, so in essence we'd be investing heavily in the private sector. Northrop Grumman wasn't that big before the Apollo program, but after that they've made aircraft carriers, B2 bombers, nuclear subs, etc. Not bad for using American labor in American-based plants (with a new one opening in Alabama in the next year).
- RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -1/+9A lunar base or manned Mars mission is a long-term project. By the time it happens the NEXT TWO recessions will be over, let alone the current one.
To delay for a recession is to give up altogether. - B1665r, on 07/16/2009, -0/+8If space travel technology had advanced as quickly as computer technology, miles traveled doubles every 18 months, we would be exploring star systems up to 10 light years away.
If that doesn't get your nerd rage going, then nothing will. - DarkMatter911, on 07/16/2009, -0/+7It is a shame that we have turned our backs on progress.
- PlanBeast, on 07/16/2009, -0/+7Do some light googleing and compared the cost of the war in Iraq to that of the Apollo program.
- inactive, on 07/16/2009, -0/+7You know, the "cost" is paying American workers and manufacturers to build stuff for the space program, right?
- RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -0/+6>> what's the cold
>> hard benefit?
Insurance - having humanity established on more than one planet makes as much sense as any other form of off-site backup. - Hetman, on 07/16/2009, -0/+5Do not forget the power point presentations. They are the reason for the downfall of american society. lol
- winstonc, on 07/16/2009, -0/+5It doesn't get my nerd rage going. What would I rage at? The laws of physics?
It's always going to take a lot of energy (and money) to send people into space; we can't just shrink people in half like we can with transistors, and we can't just make rockets go twice as fast. - RealmDown, on 07/16/2009, -0/+5We could only hope.
- ebcreasoner, on 07/16/2009, -0/+5Yes yes yes. The point isn't the fact that we went to the moon only as a show. The point is we all went to the freakin' MOON.
- Zerfram, on 07/16/2009, -0/+5A colony of 5000 where children are born and live their lives seems pretty damn optimistic... A small base with a dozen or so researchers might be more realistic.
- inactive, on 07/16/2009, -0/+5There a literally unlimited resources in space, how's that for a benefit?
- NBCLocal, on 07/16/2009, -6/+11It seems like it must be a tough split. With the economy the way that it is, and with true progress in space far away, does it make sense to pump money into NASA? I'm not sure.
- RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -1/+5It was a major reason, but not the only reason.
It was also Lyndon Johnson's way of dragging the American south into the 20th century. Think of the stereotype of folks from Alabama. Now consider that Huntsville - where rockets are designed - has the highest concentration of engineers per capita. Thank the space program. Add rocket manufacturing in New Orleans, solid rocket booster manufacturing in Utah, mission control in Houston, launches in Florida, and other space labs, centers, and manufacturing facilities all ovet the south.
And of course the "advancing science and humanity" bit DID have a lot to do with it. - ebcreasoner, on 07/16/2009, -0/+4Mine Luna, now damnit. Send supplies. Make supplies. Make products. Oversight. Tax. Export. Import.
Profit? Hell yeah!
<wikipedia> Lunar ilmenite
Ilmenite has been found in Moon rocks, and is typically highly enriched in magnesium similar to the kimberlitic association. In 2005[7] NASA used the Hubble Space Telescope to locate potentially ilmenite-rich locations. This mineral could be essential to an eventual Moon base, as ilmenite would provide a source of iron and titanium for the building of structures and essential oxygen extraction. </wikipedia>
Does it really take a rocket scientist to convince the people of Earth that the space age would benefit all of mankind.
Another damned benefit is water purification. Technology like it mass produced planetside could eventually clean up Earth. Think safely mining rivers and bodies of water for metals... you know environmental like.
Production requires people. Jobs. For the future of the Human race. Yeah, those kind of jobs.
I don't know IANARS, but damnit, all you Terrans could use a little lunar love. - RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -0/+4Seen in another online chat:
Neil deGrasse Tyson took a look at what it takes to get governments and very wealthy people to dough out that kind of money. In fact, Neil checked our entire history, all the way 5000 years back. He came up with three main motivations that have driven major projects in history. They were:
- Defense (Apollo, Great Wall)
- Promise of Economic Refund (Columbus, Magellan)
- Praise of Power (Vatican)
Ineffective drivers were: Wonderment, next frontier, the calling, urge to explore, curiosity, science. - RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -0/+3Your post starts off with facts, but by the time you get halfway through the first paragraph you're spouting fiction.
Here's a good write-up on the issue:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/27jan_sola ...
If the astronauts were out in their space-suits - and STAYED out, they would have absorbed a potentially fatal 400 rem. But inside their aluminum spacecraft, it they'd be exposed to just 35 rem. "the difference between needing a bone marrow transplant … or just a headache pill."
A typical space suit, has only 0.25 g/cm2 of protection.
An Apollo command module rated 7 to 8 g/cm2.
The space shuttle has 10 to 11 g/cm2.
The hull of the ISS, in its most heavily shielded areas, has 15 g/cm2.
Future moonbases will have storm shelters made of polyethelene and aluminum possibly exceeding 20 g/cm2.
Really - once we learned of the problem, we learned how to handle it. Radiation isn't magic. - ebcreasoner, on 07/16/2009, -0/+3It's an investment. Smart. Good.
- inactive, on 07/16/2009, -4/+7We need to count on private capital to develop cost effective ways of getting into space. They are already in the works. If someone could convince a large private foundation to provide a billion or two, then Rutan and company would get us into high earth orbit for 1% of the cost that NASA sticks to the taxpayer
- RealmDown, on 07/16/2009, -0/+3The reply fit the comment, and I didn't feel like qualifying it to be perfect by utilizing a bunch of proviso's.
Anyway, I would give my left nut, Lance's last one and both of yours just to be a part of the moon *clean up* crew. - leonardutah, on 07/16/2009, -0/+3Sadly, I just can't see this ever happening. As much as it pains me to say this, what's the cold hard benefit? If it were up to me, exploration would be the one driving force of humankind, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that. People can't see past their petty squabbles long enough to look at the sky.
Imagine what we could accomplish if we just worked together. Imagine how little we will living like this. Shame. - DeskFlyer, on 07/16/2009, -0/+3How so? The progress NASA makes is directly proportional to how much funding it receives from the government, which is a drop in the bucket at this point in time. And even so, the goals they've accomplished since the Apollo program are impressive considering they are one of the most underfunded national agencies right now (citation needed).
Anyway, don't forget that the Ares I, the vehicle designed to bring us back to the moon, is currently being assembled for a full scale flight test next month (unless the pogo oscillations don't get figured out). http://spaceflightnow.com/ares1x/090709stacking/
So things are looking up. :) - RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2The moon is already a hostile lifeless wasteland.
We'd turn it into a hostile lifeless wasteland with islands of life. - ripe, on 07/16/2009, -1/+3It's easy to be upset that humankind is not where we want it to be. The key is for you to get off digg and do something about it. One person can change everything.
- RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2Antarctica isn't a colony. No-one is having children there.
Yeah, 5000 people is optimistic. Sealing a lave tube by now is optimistic. But once a colony gets to the point where it can build additional habitable space, raising the population is easy and fun with no expensive launches from Earth needed. - anonymousmedic, on 07/17/2009, -0/+2Maybe you should look at the types of Radiation. Not everything out there is high energy gamma radiation.
- Astark, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2Please... Antarctica is on freaking EARTH and we've got what, a dozen guys down there? Unless there's a way to get rich doing it, you're not going to get thousands of people to live on the moon. Let alone get the rest of us to pay for it.
- BlackOculus, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2...through a corn field.
- thinkb4utype, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2My father was one of those engineers working on the Gemini and Apollo programs. He was never home. He put in 12 hour days for years. He'd work weekends and Holidays and all without paid overtime. I don't think you could get Americans to work as hard today, especially those employed by the Federal Government.
- RogerStrong, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2Ares I will likely be cancelled soon. It's underpowered, and the vibration from the big solid rocket booster (without the mass of the Shuttle and external tank to absorb it) are a big problem.
But that's OK. Just use Ares V for everything. It costs more to launch, but most of the cost is in development. By developing just one rocket, you save money. Even if you have to add ballast on each launch of Orion, it's cheaper in the long run with the small number of launches planned. And Orion can go back to it's original size and back to being a six-person spacecraft.
Let commercial space handle smaller boosters like Ares I. Have NASA stick to heavy lift, where commercial space doesn't have a business case. - BossKey, on 07/17/2009, -0/+2And besides, you're wrong. The Internet may have been invented in Britain in the 1960s. But the World Wide Web, based on HTTP, was invented by Englishman Tim Berners-Lee in Switzerland in the 1990s.
- localzuk, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2Antarctica is a giant science experiment - not a place to live. We have no need to ruin such a vast untouched place, so why should we?
- BossKey, on 07/16/2009, -0/+2You're intent on being a pessimist. You picked a short list of things that suck, choosing to ignore every one of the things that kept America dominant after the moon landing, up through this decade. The vast majority of the Internet revolution, one of the great turning points of civilization, was run from the United States of America. Yes, it used HTTP which was born in Switzerland and all kinds of Chinese manufacturing and outsourced Indian code, but IBM, Apple, Microsoft, Dell, HP, etc. represent one of the greatest sources of "stable, well-paid, career-track jobs" and global dominance that the world has ever seen. In terms of its effect on the world, that was bigger than the moon landings, after the moon landings.
- Presbyterian, on 07/16/2009, -2/+3Huh?.
You do realize the "Space race" was also part of the Cold War?.
That's he only reason we invested in it. - Hetman, on 07/16/2009, -0/+1The micro chip was invented after the apollow missions. It is literally one of the greatest inventions of all time. You are probably currently using thousands of them this minute. They are literally everywhere.
- B1665r, on 07/16/2009, -0/+1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhuGCVIf3g
- bshock, on 07/17/2009, -0/+1Yeah, Lunar City, great idea. Too bad breathing moon dust for an extended period destroys your lungs. It's like inhaling powdered glass.
- BossKey, on 07/17/2009, -0/+1"The World Wide Web was invented in Britain."
Exactly my point. Many parts of the Internet might have been invented outside the USA, but it was the USA that synthesized it all, used it to establish dominance, and reaped the profits and benefits.
"The Internet was invented in the 1960s."
Again, *exactly* my point. It was invented in the 1960s, but the exponential monetization of it didn't occur until the 1990s, well after the moon landings. You do need innovation to achieve such dramatic growth. - ebcreasoner, on 07/16/2009, -0/+1Still that shtuff allways gets me dreaming.
- BossKey, on 07/16/2009, -0/+1I don't agree. If you look at the timeline of the world's great discoveries and explorations, many years pass between major achievements. We're not going downhill, we're just in the temporary valley between major achievements. Progress is space exploration is not a linear challenge. The further away you get from Earth, the technology and resources you need goes up exponentially.
Until we make some technological breakthroughs that reduce the cost of manned space travel, there are a lot of taxpayers who would not be in the mood for exponential NASA budget growth. We did not get to the moon because it was easy, we got there because we threw everything we had at it. Once you put out that kind of effort, it's hard to do more. - cubicledrone, on 07/17/2009, -0/+0The Internet was invented in the United States in the 1960s. The World Wide Web was invented by a British subject.
And America hasn't invented jack ***** since 1972 because we fired everyone after we landed on the moon and then we bulldozed the factories and the R&D facilities and built Wal-Marts so we could sell plastic crap paid for with credit cards. - cubicledrone, on 07/16/2009, -2/+2Landing on the moon was America's peak. We've been going downhill ever since, and we will continue to go downhill as long as we allow our best and brightest to be excluded from the marketplace by immaturity and irresponsibility.
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