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Thunderbird 3.0 to begin ascent next month: what to expect

arstechnica.com — The Thunderbird developers aim to release the first Thunderbird 3 alpha next month. Plans for the new version include integration of Gecko 1.9 and user interface improvements for configuration and extension installation.

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  • Ossuary, on 03/06/2008, -4/+28Please dear God don't have any Eudora GUI in this or any future release.
  • SquareEnix, on 03/06/2008, -4/+41What to expect? I expect nothing less than the same internet ownage Firefix brought over IE
    • StealthMonkey, on 03/06/2008, -14/+7Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Firefox, but Thunderbird kinda sucks. Maybe the email functionality is good, but I've used it for its newsgroup functionality... and it blows.
      • hachijuhachi, on 03/06/2008, -5/+3I took an online class, and we had to use Thunderbird for the newsgroup stuff. It was pretty brutal.
      • raynar, on 03/06/2008, -1/+3Maybe they make it startup even slower?
    • warriorscot, on 03/06/2008, -11/+3If you need a basic email and RSS reader thunderbird is good, but to be honest it isn't as good as Outlook which is a good all round app with more features, I started with thunderbrid then tried Outlook and outlook2007 was better than thunderbird it also meant i wasn't stuck using Sunbird which is good but why they don't stick it in thunderbird I will never know.
      • Kral, on 03/06/2008, -1/+14Thanks for the tip, I'll just apt-get install outlook2007. Oh, wait..
      • HonoredMule, on 03/06/2008, -0/+5"[W]hy they don't stick it in thunderbird I will never know."

        Maybe because desire for a calendar app shouldn't be presumed just because someone wants to read their email. It makes more sense as an option than mandatory bloat.
        • voyvf, on 03/06/2008, -0/+3Agreed. Though having the option to add a calendar app (ala the Lightning extension) is rather cool.
      • CoolHwip, on 03/06/2008, -1/+1You can actually integrate Sunbird into Firefox via the Lightning extension.
        • Atomic1fire, on 03/09/2008, -0/+1You can actully just keep google calender and mail as a tab via that whole multiple homepages via tab thing
          But I suppose if you wanted an all in one you could combine the lighting extension with that simplemail extension (or figure out how to get thunderbird merged with firefox because seamonky lacks certain firefox features)) and that other irc
          one
      • zongamin, on 03/07/2008, -0/+2Learn to use sentences you cretin.
    • astrotrain, on 03/06/2008, -2/+4Outlook comes with Office...which is expensive and proprietary document format. You will need to take out a small loan to purchase Office. And not to mention good old outlook does not warn you of potential emails that are fraud, junk.

      Outlook also isn't easy to back up... as it stores your data all over your system, and not in one centralized location. And when was the last time you could take Outlook with you on a Thumb drive... or restore your
      Outlook data into another OS such as Linux?

      Thunderbird... simply the best email client period... I have showed Thunderbird to die hard Outlook Fans...guess what?... they liked Thunderbird's easy navigation, the way it tells you if it suspects
      fraudulent messages, and the ease of backing it up, and the ability to add and remove applications
      to it such as Lightning, etc.

      • WomensUnderwear, on 03/06/2008, -5/+2you can buy outlook 2007 as a separate standalone...i did...worth every penny...simply light years ahead of thunderbird in every way shape and form. thunderbird looks like a student project in comparison, outlook simply demolishes it, being a truly professional, mature, refined and bulletproof app
        • Fergy, on 03/06/2008, -1/+2Thunderbird is easier to use if you only want to use email and/or rss feeds. It is also easier to backup and takes less space on your pc. It also starts up faster. Now, for a normal user, which one is the student project and which the professional application?
        • Burn, on 03/06/2008, -0/+5Except that it completely sucks at handling IMAP accounts. Even Apple Mail handles IMAP better than Outlook.
        • Tenoq, on 03/07/2008, -0/+1Yeah... 14 years worth of IMAP4 and Outlook still can't get it right. That and Outlook is slow bloated and slow now that I don't know how anyone can put up with using it.
    • zongamin, on 03/07/2008, -0/+1you mean by having a much smaller number of users?
      There are still millions of ***** who use IE you know.
  • Sacrifice, on 03/06/2008, -9/+8I was a long time user of Eudora, it was such an excellent streamlined client. I was planning to eventually switch to Thunderbird, but the development time was/is just too slow. I recently started using Windows Live Mail. While it hurts to recommend a Microsoft product, it is actually a great e-mail client.
    • theragu40, on 03/06/2008, -1/+10Eudora is terrible. There was a time it was alright, but that was a long, looong time ago. We had to support it while people in my department migrated from Eudora to Outlook or Thunderbird...and it never gave us anything but trouble.
    • cozmoz365, on 03/06/2008, -4/+1Windows Live mail is terribly if you need to view HTML emails in Firefox.
    • astrotrain, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2Yes Eudora was great for its time, but after finding the robust function of Thunderbird.... it was time to leave Eudroa to the back shelf of the early 2000's software.
  • troydoogle7, on 03/06/2008, -1/+82summary: We are fixing extensions.
    We may not integrate lightening(calendar app) or sql lite for address book.

    I hope one day these guys will realise we want something to replace outlook. The calendar and to do list should be first priority, as should be syncing with mobile devices....

    come on guys! We want a thunderbird with some thunder!
    • warriorscot, on 03/06/2008, -12/+1Is outlook broken?
      • meamog, on 03/06/2008, -0/+12Not really, but a good alternative is always a good thing.
      • adachan, on 03/06/2008, -0/+7Yes, Outlook is broken for a some things. Try to set it up to check multiple pop3 accounts and see what happens. It will crash randomly. I have repeated this on at least 100 machines.
      • spyrochaete, on 03/06/2008, -0/+3I love Outlook for work but I have multiple email addresses at home and nothing helps me manage them better than Thunderbird. I have plenty of complaints about Thunderbird but nothing else is better right now.

        I do have two gripes about Outlook 2007 though. It's sometimes inexplicably laggy and will start loading *something* out of the blue, and sometimes when I open an email with a long reply history every subsequent reply is displayed in a slightly larger font until the bottom replies are enormous. Weird!
      • astrotrain, on 03/06/2008, -5/+1Yes...Outlook was broken when it was first introduced....
      • Tenoq, on 03/07/2008, -0/+1IMAP is broken. Still. Who the ***** wants to setup filters so your outbound mail ends up in the right spot?
    • BFisch06, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Ever used Sunbird, mozilla's calendar app?

      http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/
  • geoken, on 03/06/2008, -0/+13I hope they fix the ugly widgets on Linux. The Win2k style listview header buttons make me feel like I'm running a WINE app. I'm expecting they'll be fixed because they were fixed in FireFox 3
  • BrandonMills, on 03/06/2008, -0/+20Thunderbird gets a small fraction of the attention Firefox gets from the Mozilla foundation. A major reason for that being the $$$ they make off the Google searches in the Firefox browser.
    • SuperMoses, on 03/06/2008, -0/+12Another reason being that more people use browsers than email/news clients.
    • 4321234, on 03/06/2008, -1/+0Another reason being there isn't as much demand for an alternative to Outlook as Internet Exploder. Outlook is actually OK whereas IE blows syphillitic rat penises.
      Mozilla is planning on dropping Thunderbird altogether, and it will be maintained independently.
  • Zong, on 03/06/2008, -3/+9is there going to be exchange support for thunderbird?
  • JaLooNz, on 03/06/2008, -1/+4Right now there is a limit to what and how far a mail client can go in terms of additions.
    I believe that improving PDAs / Smartphone syncs with thunderbird will be a better direction to go towards, or to improve the UI usability.
    • i88gerbils, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Why the heck was this dugg down? Syncing addressbook or contacts with mobile devices is a high priority for increasing Thunderbird's usage in business. However this is probably more along the lines of extensions -- perhaps STEEL will make it easier to write extensions that actually matter.
  • brandon81211, on 03/06/2008, -8/+36I'm gonna get buried for this one, but I got to say it. While FireFox definitely pwns IE, I have to agree...Thunderbird really SUCKS. Outlook has more functionality, a much more attractive GUI (especially in Outlook 2007), Calendar and To-Do list, and Sync-Capable with PDA/SmartPhones.
    Thunderbird has got to catch up, because sadly this is one area that Microsoft pwns Mozilla.
    • MrTarot, on 03/06/2008, -1/+9It really is the lack of the scheduling features and the organizational "groupware" like functionality that makes it harder and harder to keep Thunderbird a viable option where I work. Security on Outlook has improved and it's features have grown outlandishly when you consider how many other products Outlook connects to with little or no hassle. I have to grudgingly agree that Outlook is the better product now.

      I can only hope that the devs realize this and at least make some effort in the direction of better sync with portable devices and scheduling/calendaring.
    • BrandonMills, on 03/06/2008, -0/+7I understand the comparison, but another ( and more fair ) comparison is between it and Outlook Express / Windows Mail. In this catagory, Thunderbird pretty much blows away the competition. Plus, it's extremely nice being able to use the same profile data folder between operating systems without any issues.
      • retr0grade, on 03/06/2008, -1/+2Fair enough, but nobody uses outlook express either. If we just ignore the real competition, Tbird beats Kmail too, and PINE, and ELM, and...
        • spyrochaete, on 03/06/2008, -0/+4I fix people's PCs as a side job and I've noticed that EVERYONE uses either Outlook or Outlook Express. Even Hotmail/Gmail users feed them through Outlook Express. A few use Incredimail but not many.
        • Tenoq, on 03/07/2008, -0/+1No, the vast majority of home users prefer Outlook Express to Outlook - if they actually have the MS Office suite. It's generally simpler and faster for them to use than the full-blown Outlook, which can be a bit of a resource hog.
    • Kral, on 03/06/2008, -1/+2It really needs working calendaring.
      • i88gerbils, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Lightning 0.7 really improved calendar support. It's actually quite good now.
    • sremick, on 03/06/2008, -3/+1Considering Outlook isn't available for my OS, Thunderbird > Outlook.

      Not that I'd use Outlook even if it was.
      • brandon81211, on 03/06/2008, -2/+0How is outlook not available? If you're using a Mac, correct me if I'm wrong but MS makes MS Office for Mac. And if you use Linux, CrossoverLinux will run MS Office including Outlook perfectly. That's how we use Outlook here where I work in a Linux environment.
        • Burn, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2There is Office for Mac, but Outlook does not come with Office for Mac. The last version of Outlook for Mac was an OS9 app, there has never been an OS X Outlook.
        • sremick, on 03/10/2008, -0/+1I don't use a Mac, nor do I use Linux. I use FreeBSD. And even if I used Linux, using the CrossoverLinux hack is hardly the same as Microsoft making Outlook "available" for Linux.

          Amazing I got buried. Have the tides turned and now Digg is suddenly a Microsoft fanboy collective? Usually slamming Microsoft resulted in +100.
  • neiltc13, on 03/06/2008, -12/+9What to expect? That I won't download it.

    GMail for the win!
    • astrotrain, on 03/06/2008, -1/+7Already viewing my GMail in Thunderbird.... along with any other web based mail that I could use.
  • DeviateSeptum, on 03/06/2008, -7/+1I like Thunderbird and think it's a very nice application but web-based e-mail is the future. Actually, it's the present. I hope Thunderbird continues development but I really wish that Mozilla would make faster progress with Sunbird. That should be a relatively simple program to design and code but it's going at a glacial pace.
    • retr0grade, on 03/06/2008, -3/+2sunbird -> Lightning
      • DeviateSeptum, on 03/06/2008, -1/+2Sunbird is the calendar project itself. Lightning is just an integration of Sunbird into Thunderbird. So whats your point? In fact, your comment makes no sense.
    • Fergy, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2Thunderbird with Gmail with imap is the present. Where the Thunderbird developers want to go is making Thunderbird a message platform. Instant messages, Calendar, Email, RSS feeds etc.
      • Tenoq, on 03/07/2008, -1/+1Gmail's IMAP is still too slow to be usable. More often than not it crashes Thunderbird, or runs so slowly I give up and go back to POP access. And I've only got a 1000 or so mail messages - I'd hate to see it with someone who uses a lot of e-mail.
  • murlox, on 03/06/2008, -0/+12Dugg for this excellent mail client. I'm using it on both Linux & Windows.
    • spyrochaete, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2A friend of mine uses it on both XP and Ubuntu and both installations use the same mail files so he doesn't have to download email twice and has access to outgoing mail no matter which OS he sent it from. That's very impressive but it took him a couple of hours to get it working properly.
    • i88gerbils, on 03/06/2008, -1/+1Dugg this because I hope Thunderbird stops sucking, and that the new development team can actually make Thunderbird BETTER than Outlook in the contact, scheduling, and e-mail management software field.
  • BrandonMills, on 03/06/2008, -0/+11Interesting web-based e-mail talk, but people who work at a business and get a great deal of messages in a day, an e-mail client is still a very good thing. For most casual e-mail use, I agree, all you need is GMail.

    The big thing Thunderbird has going for it is OS portability, and not being chained to Microsoft standards. Ever use Outlook on an IMAP server? It's ok, but once you start getting into the thousands of messages on the server, Outlook tends to crap out on itself. Outlook + IMAP = nightmare.
    • BinaryFragger, on 03/06/2008, -1/+1With Gmail, I use use both.
      I have the Sylpheed email client installed and configured for Gmail, which downloads the emails to my harddrive while keeping them on the Gmail servers. The advantage to this setup is, I can access my Gmail account from anywhere, and I can access my emails offline from my computer (came in handy during an extended DSL outage last month).

      Gmail's POP and IMAP support are very handy.

    • quanta88, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2That puts TB in a tight spot - it's designed for casual home users, who prefer Gmail and Hotmail. Also note that most webmail systems don't offer POP/IMAP, so they're not going to use TB even if they wanted to.

      For business use, TB is underpowered compared to the Outlook/Exchange juggernaut. It has no PIM features or syncing to Blackberry or Windows Mobile.

      So what market does that leave TB with? People who used Eudora or Netscape Messenger for eons and don't want or need to change. And in that market, they have to compete with the likes of Outlook Express / Windows Mail, which is free and by default sits right up top in the Start menu of every Windows OS sold.

      In other words, MM has to move up, square off with Outlook, or give up.
      • i88gerbils, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Thunderbird is almost ready for the corporate environment as of Lightning 0.7. However the entire "address book" needs to be dumped and changed into something more of the 21st century (not just mork -> sqllite, i'm talking interface). Also, if Thunderbird was the the first client to completely abstract data making it easier to share contacts and appointments (shared calendar and contacts), then that would blow Outlook out of the water as it's a) free and b) more functionality.
  • eufouria, on 03/06/2008, -5/+5Thunderbirds Are Go!
  • thoand, on 03/06/2008, -3/+6As DeviateSeptum stated, Web-based is the future. If Thunderbird should be any interesting it should support Exchange.
  • carpsio, on 03/06/2008, -2/+3I kind of like Thunderbird, but yeah - the future is web-based mail rather than desktop apps. I get my mail on my phone... my blackberry... my PC... at home... at work... downloading some vast piece of software just to wade through spam doesn't seem that appealing any more.
    • mstoneburner, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2If you think an email client, ANY email client, is "a vast piece of software" you're not really that familiar with very many software packages.
    • ScottDaMan, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2-1. The future is not web based insecure email.
    • i88gerbils, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Have you ever tried to move 20 pages of e-mails in a web-based e-mail client to a different folder? It takes ***** forever.
  • retr0grade, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1"Ascher believes that a better out-of-the-box experience and support for calendaring are the two killer features that will make Thunderbird a success..." but then "Another long-term plan that might not make the cut is integration of Lightning, the Thunderbird calendar program."
    I don't use Tbird now because calendaring is non-functional. If they don't fix the calendar, why do they expect anyone to adopt 3.0?

    There is a huge untapped market out there, especially in the academic setting, where people are reluctant to use Outlook or the IT guys won't support Exchange server, but as a result they don't have a robust calendaring system. It can't possibly be all that hard, because Microsoft has been doing it more or less correctly for years. Tbird is not a credible replacement for Outlook until it offers a functional calendar package, with busy/free schedule visibility and meeting invites sent by email.

    And really, how hard can it be? The Tbird developers could probably even use google calendar as the backend, and kill Exchange once and for all.
    • chance1376, on 03/06/2008, -0/+2Not very hard since my office. (only about 10 people) have been using this set up for a few months now. Thunderbird+Lighting+Provider for Google Calendar. Extensions are truly a wonderful thing. Sure this set up could be a pain to set up for bigger offices..but it works for us just nicely
    • i88gerbils, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1We setup Thunderbird + Lightning 0.7 + Addressbook Synchronizer 0.8+ for a client, and it's working well. The only thing missing is a data abstraction layer, which would allow shared calendar support.

      As of Lightning 0.7, you can invite contacts to appointments via e-mail.
  • mstoneburner, on 03/06/2008, -7/+4Why has it taken so long? I mean, it's like the people working on this ***** act like their working on a new gaming engine or something. Guys, email clients are not complicated programs. Get the ***** finished.
  • jschrab, on 03/06/2008, -0/+8I kinda hope Lightning makes the cut - calendar support is kinda important for Thunderbird adoption in business settings. Heaven know I need it here at work (and wish it would perform better).
  • Cocophone, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Shared Address Books. All I want is an easy way to share Address Book in my small office. I don't mind setting up a LDAP server, but I want the users to be able to add and edit email addresses in Thunderbird.
  • Hercules, on 03/06/2008, -0/+4Calendar integration is the biggest feature I need. I want to sync my Yahoo account with my email account, and then from my email into my smartphone.

    Calendar is the most important thing for me. I am sure for many others. Right now I'm still on Outlook because of that. And don't get me wrong... I actually LIKE Outlook -- I just want an alternative so Microsoft doesn't rest on their laurels. Office is their best product though... we'll see :)
    • aliguana, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1yeah, Outlook is definitely one product that Microsoft does right, and that doesn't really have any competition. Onenote too. The rest of the Office suite you could reasonably substitute with OOorg or Google Docs or Zoho, but I can't live without my Outlook. Sad, but true
      • WomensUnderwear, on 03/06/2008, -2/+0i tried life without outlook...after 3 days i couldnt snap up 2007 quick enough...there is no viable alternative - i like gmail but it is nowhere near an outlook killer, and thunderbird just left me feeling like the entire open source fanboy frothers have simply no clue of what it takes to man up, grow a pair and do business in the real world
    • vize, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1Install lightning extension to obtain calendar functionality in thunderbird

      https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon ...

      It can sync with google calendar with the following extension

      https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon ...
  • MarkSwanson, on 03/08/2008, -0/+0I've been using Lightning 0.7 for a while now (0.8 is even better but is still in beta). I think most folks would find that if you pair this with the ScheduleWorld add-on it works well enough. You can easily share address books. You can sync your address books and calendars with ScheduleWorld. Once your data is in ScheduleWorld you can sync with your cell phone, Google, Outlook, Evolution, etc. All for free.The bluetooth sync capability is in beta now, which will let you sync your phone for free over bluetooth instead of paying your cell phone company for cell phone data bandwidth.
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