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Original Firefox team member takes on new IE7 beta
weblogs.mozillazine.org — Asa Dotzler takes on the new IE7 beta in a post detailing why it still falls short of Firefox. "We've done amazing work here at Mozilla over the last few years, [...] causing the largest software company in the world to get up off its butt and start thinking about users again." He also note that a severe IE7 flaw was found 15 minutes after release!
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- opera, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I'm using Opera to read what a Firefox team member writes about IE7...
I dunno why, don't think I'll ever use IE again, and I'm sceptic to FF. Used it a long time, but it's too slow, and I don't want all the extension-based features. - Lynn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5He was very positive about IE7. He comments that the Firefox team should copy most of the new IE7 features.
- RyanJones, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Funnt that considering IE7 stole more of the new features they added from Firefox so how would it be possible to copy something from IE7 when it already exists in Firefox?
They even stol the god damn RSS icon, Kill Microcrap already.
Ryan Jones - Vladk1000, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Interesting read. He mostly said positive things about IE7, and I wonder if other Firefox developers would agree with him, but I looked at IE7 screenshots and it looks much better (I'm still not going to use it though).
_________________________
http://ultra-tech.blogspot.com/ - Lynn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ RyanJones
Did you read the story? Asa Dotzler explains the new features that he would like to copy into Firefox. - cbags, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Also the RSS icon was apprently adopted by more than just MSFT...
- jinexile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The common misconception among people is that developers of one product are fanboys and cannot give credit where credit is due. Maybe in some project but in products that are great it generally takes developers with open minds to see the shortcomings of their product and the strengths of their competitor and how to use that to their advantage.
Asa, while often abrasive and arrogant, does recognize the nice little features that IE7 has. But is it going to be enough, the fact that Firefox can (and probably will) impliment the features before IE7 is released either in the form of a core feature or an extension.
Alot of the feature that IE7 has would be in Firefox today if the Gecko engine could handle it.
Full Page Zooming (Opera has had this for a long time so they should really get the credit), will be implimented either by extension or core in Firefox 3 with the new Cairo rendering engine.
Quick Tabs, already sort of in Firefox with FoXpose, but it's slow because of the limitations of the Gecko engine, to be fix in Fx3
Furthermore, Ryan, Microsoft didn't steal the RSS icon, they actually worked with Mozilla to decide on a standard Icon and as a result the current RSS icon used by Mozilla was decided the winner. It's good to see the open mindedness (about somethings) of the MS team to work together to fix the web. - blowdart, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1And lets not forget they asked permission to use the RSS icon.
Interesing definition of stealing Ryan has. Maybe all the koolaid has warped his brain. - nacquatella, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I have found the IE7 to be a merely COPY of the features that we love the most of Firefox. It's lame.
- BangoSkank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is silly to talk about IE 7 coping from FireFox. Since as stated Earlier, FireFox copied much from Opera. It is all about who can give use the best features with the most compatibility. I do think that FireFox has more features currently, but IE is really close. IE 7 has been more consistently rendering pages correctly for me, and has less flakyness around things like ActiveX and PDFs. I think I will have both browsers for a time, but it is likely that IE will win. IE's tabs work great, all my toolbars came over perfectly, RSS enhancements work well, Interface is clean.
I know all you FireFox zealots freak out when anyone one says anything positive about IE. but it is not about using non-Microsoft products, or product loyalty, its about the best tool for a users needs. IE will be better for some, and FireFox will be better for others. - Rice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0He's pretty down to earth isn't he?
- zweben, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am definitely looking forward to the release of IE 7. Hell no i'm not going to use it, but I honestly believe the people at Microsoft this time when they say that they are going to do their best to fix CSS support (mostly because they already listed a lot of specific problems they had on their list to kill).
IE 7 with better CSS support = my life as a web designer is much nicer. - Fallout75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1IE7 Beta 2 is clunky and the usability sucks. I found it hard to figure things out and move stuff around where as Firefox is simple, customizable and just works.
One thing I did like about IE is the show all tabs button, which lets you see thumbnails of all the tabs you have open, other than that, IE7 is clunkier that 6.0
I'm sticking with Firefox. - abuser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0>He also note (sic!) that a severe IE7 flaw was found 15 minutes after release!
Did he also note that it's a first public beta?
I've tried IE7 beta and overall I think it's a nice improvement over IE6 and even, in some aspects, over FF.
The tabs are faster (compared to IE6+MSN Toolbar) and the toolbar leaves more usable screen space to the user. It's heavier on the memory but it sometimes appears faster than FF (for example, when opening images in new tabs FF 1.5x causes the CPU utilization jump to 70%). - StepJoe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I switched back to IE from Firefox when the new beta came out. I like the new layout, it loads fast, and the tabbing is better than the best firefox plugin. Even if some of the options had been around for a while, I see nothing wrong with a company that looks at what works and what doesn't then creates a product that they know people will want to use. I hope they give Outlook an overhaul like this soon.
- sonicworx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Microsoft can make IE7, IE8, IE2000...Firefox will always reign supreme as the top browser.
- BangoSkank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is interesting that IE 7 warns that this link may be "Phishing Website" and it is suspicious.
- boohiss, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"Microsoft can make IE7, IE8, IE2000...Firefox will always reign supreme as the top browser."
Why? Because you have irrational hatred of MSFT. - fennec, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wish I could somehow port my favorite extensions to Opera, since I'm so used to them. Opera is lightning fast, even compared to the old days firefox (when it was still called phoenix).
But firefox is good enough for me. Hopefully, release 1.5.1 will have fixed the constant crashes firefox experienced when doing simple operations (so far, so good).
IE7 looks good. The anti-phishing feature tends to err on the side of caution (as it should). Some java applets behave odd it ie7, tho. Still, I'll reserve my final judgement for when the final release comes out. - pcgeek101, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1zomfgwtfbbqh4x firefox pwns IE7 like a noob!! Mikr0$ft is g4y!!111!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!111!!!111one!111111!1!!
^^^ Seriously people ... you aren't "cool" because you hate Microsoft. They make some good products, and until the final release of IE7 comes out, we'll have to settle for some unfair comparisons of all the browsers. I personally use Firefox at the moment, although if IE can step up security and add some features in, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to using that for more of my browsing needs. Here's a thought: have an open mind. - diggnationdevon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0IE 7 beta 2 still isn't that bad but uh it still lacks the security. I don't want ActiveX
- herrin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I really liked this breakdown. He shows respect, points out things he dislikes, give props for things he likes and gives a great breakdown of the differences in the new IE.
- gsnedders, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Quick tabs originally come from Omniweb, where they have been for years.
What I care about IE7 is standards support. For me, a browser on an OS I don't use is fine, as long as it has decent standards support. - mesostinky, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1IE 7 beta preview is a beta so I expected to find bugs. But personally I found it unuseable. Major sites like Slashdot don't render properly and leave miles of extra blank space on the bottom of the page and scrolling is jerky. Scrolling on my laptop where IE 6 and Firefox work perfectly is too painful to bother with. Plus the button setup is totally fubared beyond belief. It make the latest version of Netscape look sane. Home button all the way to the right away from back and forward? Yea, that makes sense...
Either way even if it turns out to be a good browser, why would anyone use it? MS has lost the public's faith and rightly so. Browsing the web with IE just isn't a safe thing to do. - DevilsRejection, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2what people don't understand is that developers are very cool, laid back people.
it's the fanboys who start the flame wars, Firefox vs. IE, Linux vs Windows, Mac vs. Windows, these are the assholes who go out and about, with a completly biased view of products, and get insulted as idiots. - mesostinky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0btw after you've used a browser that supports "fast back" and "fast forward" how can you go back to anything else? Opera users at least had that right.
- Tanpreet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I use firefox but i have also dled ie7beta and ive found ie7 to be almost a copy of firefox (well not completely because of the activex and etc.).
- RyanJones, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1blowdart, the reason MS used it is because they are to unimaginative to make their own, it has nothing to do with permissions, its the principal and that's stolen - permission or not.
Ryan Jones - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Wow, what a great evaluation! Aside from agreeing with almost everything he said it is a refreshing change from all the rampant fanboyism. There are good features in IE7, and even some things that work better in IE6 than Firefox. Refusing to acknowledge that is not only childish but prevents recognizing features that could improve Firefox. Those who say "Firefox will always reign supreme as the top browser" are delusional. Nothing is constant except change--remember it once looked as though nothing could topple Netscape too.
Regardless of what you think about Microsoft IE7 is good news. The updates (in particular improved CSS support and transparent PNG IMO) are good for web developers and by extension good for end users. More competition is never a bad thing and I hope this lights a fire under Firefox developers.
Bravo for the most intelligent, unbiased article I've seen in some time. My respect for the Firefox team has gone up a notch. Dugg! - theendlessnow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Firefox isn't all that great. Shoot there are features that work better in old-old-Mozilla than in Firefox. Firefox certainly needs a few more releases to get "right".
- LaughingMan11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1He mentioned that the new IE7 lacks a menu-bar. I've noticed this becoming a persistent theme in all of IE7... Windows Vista, and Office 12... menu bar going away, and all of the functionality scattered about.
I don't think I like that at all. - limpingjaret, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1wow a fair and balanced view on IE7 from the FF camp, i'm amazed...maybe the fanboys should take a page out of this book
- gildude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0To those that think IE7 lacks a menu bar - at least on Vista (and probably on XP), just press "alt" and the menu bar will appear. It only takes up space when you need it.
- JackRipper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"One thing I did like about IE is the show all tabs button, which lets you see thumbnails of all the tabs you have open, other than that, IE7 is clunkier that 6.0"
Have you tried Foxpose? It's pretty cool. - meefman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I would love to see individual features of IE7 implemented into firefox. For instance the way IE7 displays RSS feeds and makes the feeds with new additions bold. Also the hiding of the 'classic' toolbar which can be effortlessly displayed by hitting alt. But ff is much more responsive.
- staticten, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Personally i think all these extensions for Firefox and Opera are making things a little clunky!!!
Didn't we all switch to these in the first place because they were fast and no overhead????
Anyhow, I'd still use IE because some sites can only run on these.............. - jinexile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1staticten, if you don't like extensions and you want a barebones browser, don't install any, it's pretty simple.
- chiklit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A bit biased towards Firefox with 'firefox invented this and that' but still a good review of IE7 in comparison to Firefox and other alternative browsers.
- vypergts, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with his initial impressions of IE7. I like where they are going with this version. I still prefer Firefox simply because this is a beta and not going to have all the support of a final build and as mentioned there are security problems. One thing I think could be improved upon in IE is the options for tab browsing. In Firefox not only are the options for tabs more extensive to begin with, but there are extensions to give the user even more options. Maybe I'm just clueless but I can't find anything in IE7 that gives me the option to open links in a new tab and Firefox's tabs are mobile, meaning I can put them at the top or the bottom of the window. It's a good start but I think there are a few luxuries that still Firefox affords over IE7.
- scottt106, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It's funny to see how many of the features of IE7 he considered picking up and adopting for firefox. All for the better, I suppose, but how long until IE and FF become clones of each other? And then it's hard to say which will ultimately "reign supreme"-- Firefox has the advantage of a vast selection of extensions, but IE will have the advantage of further integration within Windows.
Either way, it's good to see such an improvement from IE6. It's a benefit to users using IE, and obviously FF users will also benefit in later versions when FF implements some of MS's ideas. - MOGua, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The more competition, the better.
O9, IE7, Fx1.5 all have their pros and cons...
but with all three alive and well, the browser scene is exciting again. - naples, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Thank god for this, I thought this was going to be another "lets bash IE because FF is sooooo cool" type of comments.
Good to see the fanboys are starting to grow up. =] - RyanJones, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0When IEx supports decent standards and has decent security then they have smething to jump about but being 6 ir more years behing everyone else thats going to be a hard job I think.
Kind of related to the http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/53159/index.html
I don't think IE could catch up even with all of MS behind it, they should just give up the ghost and let it die.
Cheers,
Ryan Jones - CheapDigWannbe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is a great thing for every PC computer user....
...but the little immature fanboy inside me is screaming... F.U. F.U You sell out =) - NoahK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Asa has a huge ego. Did you see that Chris Wilson from MS posted a comment?
- BrianBillow, on 04/08/2008, -0/+0Glad to see that he want to implement a quick tab like feature into FireFox, I love the quick tab feature. I hope that Apple will end up doing the samething since quick tabs is so useful.
- Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Baaaaaaaaa Microsoft is bad Baaaaaaaaa
sucsessful companies are bad baaaaaaaaaa - ihybridora, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0thats great...it ain't going to be my main browser of use. but maybe become my alternative.
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