Discover the best of the web!
Learn more about Digg by taking the tour.
Mozilla launches competitor to AIR and Silverlight
labs.mozilla.com — Today Mozilla Labs is announcing a new experiment called Prism.
smason- 1658 diggs
- digg it
- dinostabOMG, on 10/30/2007, -10/+75I guess I don't really get why this would be valuable. If I want access to the facebook on my desktop, why don't I just make a Firefox shortcut?
- fkr3, on 10/30/2007, -19/+41I don't see why it's valuable because it's essentially AIR, except Adobe have a decade's experience and a year's headstart with AIR.
The most interesting part is that Mike Chambers (Macromedia / Adobe guy of some note) himself is commenting, and his post about it:
http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/2007/10/25/mozill ...
"So, I guess the thing I found odd was Mozilla appears to be building something very similar to Adobe AIR (which is fine and cool), but somehow it is inherently good when Mozilla does it, and inherently evil when Adobe does it."- GMorgan, on 10/30/2007, -6/+66One is an open platform so fits in with the whole point of the web. The others are closed formats which can only be reimplemented after jumping through legal hoops. Clearly the first is of more value to everyone except Adobe and MS.
- fkr3, on 10/27/2007, -16/+6But the majority of people never see, hear or even think about those hoops. They just click "Install plugin".
- nakani, on 10/27/2007, -1/+15We're talking about legitimacy with developers, not just users, here ;)
- linkinpark342, on 10/28/2007, -2/+13fkr3, this just makes it important for us to get it right the first time with the open platform...
- etruscan, on 10/26/2007, -14/+6How does an open platform fit in with "the whole point of the web"? I thought the point of the web was to deliver information. I didn't realize it had anything to do with the method involved in developing the applications that help to deliver that information.
I like the concept of Open Source (and if I thought about it, I probably like it better than the alternative) but just because something isn't open source doesn't mean it violates some sort of grass-roots, live free or die law of the internet that makes it unethical to utilize.
Just because something isn't free, or the mechanics aren't openly shared - that doesn't mean it's bad.- weeFred, on 10/27/2007, -1/+9Without open standards there would be no web or internet. There would just be lots of little networks all running their own closed standard protocols. It's open standards that allow everybody to connect their system to the same network. If a company like MS gets everybody to adopt their standard then they can do whatever they want with their standard e.g. force people to update/change, charge for use.
- ccheath, on 10/26/2007, -1/+4uhhh... you must be new here...
- GMorgan, on 10/27/2007, -1/+5Check with the guy who invented the web. It's meant to be an open standard. That's why I can implement any of the W3C standards tomorrow.
- etruscan, on 10/29/2007, -0/+1I'm not talking about the web not being open. I'm talking about the apps used. There's a difference, and it's not all that subtle. How did you miss that?
- fkr3, on 10/27/2007, -16/+6But the majority of people never see, hear or even think about those hoops. They just click "Install plugin".
- emehrkay, on 10/30/2007, -4/+37He is clearly scared of this project as it will aim to replace AIR.
I love Flash for what it does, but I hate the fact that it is proprietary in nature and I feel the same way about AIR, Silverlight, etc. And I am certain that I am not the only person who feels this way.- neutrino15, on 10/26/2007, -10/+2No you are not, and open standards are generally good. However, I also feel that having one or two defacto standards for this are better than having 3 and then some. Imagine if you had to update MORE than just flash to play games online.. That would completely suck..
Again, I say you download flash, silverlight, google gears, and learn how to make bookmarks or shortcuts... BOOM....
- neutrino15, on 10/26/2007, -10/+2No you are not, and open standards are generally good. However, I also feel that having one or two defacto standards for this are better than having 3 and then some. Imagine if you had to update MORE than just flash to play games online.. That would completely suck..
- hexydes, on 10/28/2007, -3/+23Dear Mike,
Please tell Adobe to create an x64 version of Flash Player for Linux so that I can view Flash content properly, without 32-bit workarounds. At that point, I will cease referring to you as "evil" (for now).
Kind regards,
Everyone using Ubuntu 64-bit- NinjaBoy, on 10/28/2007, -18/+5Dear hexydes, please pay for it.
- hexydes, on 10/27/2007, -1/+10Dear NinjaBoy,
I'm not the one trying to create a ubiquitous platform for the Web. If they don't properly support their product on the platform I am using, I will simply stop using their content, and encourage everyone I know to do the same.
You think that doesn't work? Why don't you go ask Microsoft how Internet Explorer's market share has faired in the last year or two.
Kind regards,
People that understand what's going on - dinostabOMG, on 10/28/2007, -1/+8NinjaBoy - if you paid for Flash Player, I have a bridge you might be interested in...
- hexydes, on 10/27/2007, -1/+10Dear NinjaBoy,
- nakani, on 10/26/2007, -1/+5Adobe is too dense to realize that anything but full compatibility on the web completely ruins their product's credibility, especially with developers (yeah, you want them on your side)
- paulsmith288, on 10/28/2007, -1/+2PS. Power PC Users support your position
- bsolidgold, on 10/28/2007, -3/+1Psssssst! Linux runs on PCs.
- TeamBaldwin, on 10/29/2007, -1/+2Psssssst! Linux runs on nearly everything... including powerpc
- NinjaBoy, on 10/28/2007, -18/+5Dear hexydes, please pay for it.
- GMorgan, on 10/30/2007, -6/+66One is an open platform so fits in with the whole point of the web. The others are closed formats which can only be reimplemented after jumping through legal hoops. Clearly the first is of more value to everyone except Adobe and MS.
- NJank, on 10/30/2007, -7/+17"I don't see why it's valuable because it's essentially AIR..."
Yeah, competing technologies are always a waste of time. We hate choices in a competitive marketplace.
By the way, anyone want to take a minute to actually explain what these things do? If I don't know what AIR is, this whole conversation becomes meaningless.- MWeather, on 10/28/2007, -1/+8We need AIR and this as much as we need OCaml and F#.
- ninetimes, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1I'm not sure on-top of what these things do, but the general sense I get is that they allow web applications to act more like normal applications. They're a little more robust and work offline-- something like that. So imagine being able to write things that behave more like normal desktop applications, but being able to do it using web development skills (HTML, CSS, AJAX, etc.).
Not entirely useless. - TheInfamousOne, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1One of the big reasons my company is looking for it is so we can easily minipulate the local file system of an In House computer. For instance, we receive millions of CDs and DVD's a year. We must scan each and every file, load them all up to our servers. It would be easier if we could do this with an application that easily talks to the net, and still allows for easy access to a local file system.
- bacon_skoda, on 10/28/2007, -1/+3easy access to a local file system???
big fat security hole coming?- TheInfamousOne, on 11/05/2007, -0/+1Internal Site, Internal computers with no outside connection to the computers or the site. So, no.
- bacon_skoda, on 10/28/2007, -1/+3easy access to a local file system???
- tpaine, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1ninetimes had it about right. For Prism instead of having to open firefox (or a new tab) to use your online apps like google docs and gmail, you get a seperate window that strips most of the navigation and buttons from the window and gives you a seperate item in your taskbar. It doesn't work for OSX yet but I would assume it would create a new bouncy icon in the bottom tray. You can also create a direct shortcut to this new window, again avoiding the use of firefox all together.
Really it's the logical next step as more and more of our apps move online. It makes sense to break an application out of the browser, especially one like Google Docs where navigation, bookmarks and toolbars are useless.
- tempusrob, on 10/28/2007, -0/+16You might be right about Facebook, but there are plenty of other uses. I'm developing an AIR application at work for our field service technicians. Right now they submit job logs via an internally website ... AIR allows it to be brought offline so they can complete the job log while they're still with the customer, even in situations where 'net access isn't available (or allowed, depending on the customer).
- dinostabOMG, on 10/28/2007, -1/+6Okay, I could see that being good... but is there a reason you couldn't have implemented this application as an executable that phones home? Is it meant to be run from the customer's computers or do the technicians have laptops with them or something? I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to understand.
- tempusrob, on 10/28/2007, -0/+8Yep, the technicians have laptops. And it could certainly be an executable but unfortunately I don't have enough experience with "real" programming to make that happen. Instead, I take the existing web stuff (which also means the UI is 99% done from the start) and tweak it to fit within the AIR framework.
- dinostabOMG, on 10/26/2007, -0/+4Ah, okay, understood. Cool.
- hexydes, on 10/26/2007, -1/+3The biggest benefit that I can see is that the applications are more portable. As long as the platform supports AIR, or Silverlight, or Prism, then it supports every app made to work with that system. If you have an exe, it doesn't work on Mac; if you have a deb, it doesn't work on Windows, etc.
Obviously, there is a level of complexity in the application where eventually it wouldn't be suitable for these environments anymore (i.e. games like UT, CAD programs, etc) but for some of the more simple applications, this is a nice way to force support for multiple platforms.
Additionally, Prism being open source will mean that users of Linux don't have to rely on Adobe and Microsoft to port their environments over to Linux, which both companies have a pretty crappy record of doing.- nakani, on 10/26/2007, -1/+3Microsoft and Adobe are shooting themselves in the foot, and they are completely oblivious to that fact.
- saynotocensors, on 10/28/2007, -1/+2nakani, i'm sure they're not oblivious... the fact is if they created an open format then anyone with a text editor would be able to create it and hence they wouldn't sell any software. They make lots of money of flash primarily because if you want to create it you need to buy their software.
- ccheath, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1"If you have an exe, it doesn't work on Mac; if you have a deb, it doesn't work on Windows, etc."
sure, but you've still gotta install the air framework, which is platform specific... exe, dmg, deb etc
and what's bugged me about AIR lately is that it's update process isn't very smooth
- tempusrob, on 10/28/2007, -0/+8Yep, the technicians have laptops. And it could certainly be an executable but unfortunately I don't have enough experience with "real" programming to make that happen. Instead, I take the existing web stuff (which also means the UI is 99% done from the start) and tweak it to fit within the AIR framework.
- bacon_skoda, on 10/27/2007, -2/+1you can't just use excel?
- dinostabOMG, on 10/28/2007, -1/+6Okay, I could see that being good... but is there a reason you couldn't have implemented this application as an executable that phones home? Is it meant to be run from the customer's computers or do the technicians have laptops with them or something? I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to understand.
- troydoogle7, on 10/26/2007, -0/+6The current generation of web apps are designed around the web browser, this technology is just waiting for the killer app and will be the basis of a new breed of web apps which need access to local storage.
Its a very interesting time to be in., however the problem is which horse should you back???- AlexFerny, on 10/27/2007, -1/+12the open source one
- bacon_skoda, on 10/26/2007, -4/+1what about apple's web clipping -> desktop widget?
- rpgmaker, on 10/27/2007, -1/+4http://labs.mozilla.com/uploads/2007/10/googlecale ...
Now we know why Mozilla dropped the Thunderbird development...- EbilPhish, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Mozilla dropped Thunderbird? I think you mean Sun Bird which is the calendar application otherwise if you do mean Thunderbird there is Eudora's Penelope which is another email client based on Thunderbird so development could go in that direction.
There is also the Lightning calendar extension to Thunderbird: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/lightning ...
- EbilPhish, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Mozilla dropped Thunderbird? I think you mean Sun Bird which is the calendar application otherwise if you do mean Thunderbird there is Eudora's Penelope which is another email client based on Thunderbird so development could go in that direction.
- fkr3, on 10/30/2007, -19/+41I don't see why it's valuable because it's essentially AIR, except Adobe have a decade's experience and a year's headstart with AIR.
- robmcm, on 11/13/2007, -8/+117So it's firefox but they have hidden the navigation bar? Clever.........
- hungarianhc, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7Right and now you can put the "Application Name" in your start menu... uh. you mean a hyperlink?
- comrade693, on 10/28/2007, -2/+9Not quite. It's in a separate process, so if it or your browser crashes, it doesn't take the other with it.
As it is, Firefox is built of off the mozilla platform, which is what Prisim is built off of, but then we are just arguing about semantics...- bacon_skoda, on 10/28/2007, -9/+3so it too will leak memory?
(as a convenience to us, of course)
- bacon_skoda, on 10/28/2007, -9/+3so it too will leak memory?
- GeckoSlayer, on 10/26/2007, -7/+13... And I thought shortcuts were useful, look at this! Wait.. what?! Firefox application shortcuts?!
- idiotwithastick, on 10/28/2007, -3/+43Those are the worst screenshots I have ever seen.
- duniyadnd, on 10/26/2007, -0/+11The screenshots are fine, but the way they put them in the template sucks. You'll need to view the images separately to get a better idea.
- armbar, on 10/26/2007, -3/+1**Mega-Facepalm.**
- alexdemers, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2They are resized smaller, just right click and Show Image.
- razorsharp84, on 10/26/2007, -1/+3I'm still trying to figure out what "Laurch Wet Apolication" means
- masterthiefster, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1It says web. Viewing the image directly confirms this. This is caused by their blog software reducing the images' dimensions to fit the page rather than generating a new reduced image.
- warkro, on 10/26/2007, -16/+11I didn't know that an open platform meant Windows-only
- Bulk70, on 10/26/2007, -0/+10It is when its a prototype. They clearly have plans to relase it for the mac (they mention expose, and talk about Prism.app), and likley linux too.
- greebowarrior, on 10/26/2007, -0/+16there are mac and linux binaries too...
http://wiki.mozilla.org/WebRunner#Latest_version- dschep, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1Thank you, I knew this already existed. silly Mozilla renaming things.
- GMorgan, on 10/26/2007, -1/+8Open platforms have nothing to do with implementations. They are to do with what rights a person has to reimplement the platform. Mozilla could only ever make a Windows implementation and provided I could obtain and reimplement the spec with no legal repercussions (maybe paying a fee for the standards doc) then it is an open platform.
If they really want to push this, put it before the ISO. That would set the cat among the pigeons. - frazw, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1Where did you get that idea. The language used throughout the article is entirely generic e.g. "desktop environment" makes reference to different OS shorcuts "Control tab, command tab" and actually mentions the fact that it runs on MacOSX Linux and Windows.
- Smokersroom, on 10/27/2007, -12/+4Meh...
- thornnd, on 10/31/2007, -8/+106This is not a competitor to Silverlight.
- grumpyrain, on 10/28/2007, -2/+29whoever buried you has no understanding about what silverlight is.
- ejdmoo, on 10/26/2007, -3/+8Mod parent up.
This is just a new spin on a little thing called "bookmarks," plus some added stuff about how future technologies (canvas3d, etc) will make Mozilla better at harnessing client-side processing power.- counterplex, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2canvas3d etc should also make standard firefox an interesting target platform. Meanwhile is it just me or does this feel a little like a rematch of firefox vs. mozilla?
- XIUgraag, on 10/28/2007, -0/+10Exactly, because you can even use Silverlight applications with Prism...
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2It isn't Silverlight -- but I don't think it is "just a bookmark" for a collection of apps.
My guess is it is about orchestrating communication between various web-related apps, caching content, and then providing an interface between them. With a quick read, I guess it would allow you to customize a "functionality" -- more than a widget. You could produce custom apps or kiosks with web data. It then gives you a nice 3D environment in which to view it.
It had better be pretty easy, because it seems more USER-centric. In that, if it is difficult, it has better have good performance. As a quasi-developer, I'm building Kiosk apps that use the web, and I want something that can use the most out of the computer, and is reliable -- so I'm not looking for EVERY platform or app -- I just want results. Silverlight and Air seem targeted towards developers already using popular Microsoft and Adobe technologies. Microsoft seems more server-based, and Adobe seems more client-based, but with real solutions on the back-end too (advantage, Adobe IMHO).
So that sticks this software squarely in the EASY TO USE, CONSUMER arena.
- JasonCox, on 10/27/2007, -17/+3Dugg because Mozilla is promoting Vista.
Buried because- well, it sounds stupid... We can already create shortcuts on Windows, Linux and Mac, why do we need another method? - sinatosk, on 10/26/2007, -2/+3reminds me of snippage and this was developed inside AIR
http://snippage.gabocorp.com/ - zeeneo, on 10/26/2007, -0/+4I've been dreaming of Meebo running with this :)
What will happen when these web apps are 'geared' up for offline access?
Maybe we'll all be running a local httpd gateway soon?- fkr3, on 10/26/2007, -4/+15Ummm....... enjoy running Meebo offline.
lol. - dschep, on 10/27/2007, -0/+2Then go get WebRunner. Its also from Mozilla, just not renamed yet.
- fkr3, on 10/26/2007, -4/+15Ummm....... enjoy running Meebo offline.
- richardiscool, on 10/30/2007, -0/+23This competes with Silverlight how?
- nakani, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1Silverlight is a cross-platform web runtime, this just lets integrate web applications more seamlessly within the OS. You could add a Silverlight application locally using Prism.
- caranthir, on 11/06/2007, -11/+0Not working for IE7? ha ha. SO very useless. SIlverlight works for Firefox!
AND the Mono team is building a Linux version.- sirdaz, on 10/26/2007, -1/+8Fool. It's not a plugin for a browser, its just another feature to the Firefox browser.
Prism is NOT a competitor to Air or Silverlight. It only allows shortcuts to websites, run inside a smaller, separate window.
The title is VERY misleading and I can see it damaging Prism before it even gets rolling, purely because the fools on Digg that don't understand this. - AlexFerny, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1ahahaha, let ms build it :P
- sirdaz, on 10/26/2007, -1/+8Fool. It's not a plugin for a browser, its just another feature to the Firefox browser.
- roflcopters, on 10/28/2007, -7/+5I already get the exactly same functionality of Prism in a much better way. Bookmarks.
Prism just takes bookmarks and makes it so you can't change the URL, go back or forward, use tabs, or use extensions and themes. That seems pretty useless to me.- nakani, on 10/26/2007, -1/+4Unless you use the web application so often that you might as well open it like a native OS application.
- rkthoadan, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2Which may not seem very useful to most diggers, but I can see it being very useful for a companies internal web-based apps (except that so many of those are IE only). It lets you separate your app from the browser more effectively and (hopefully) keeps web-based apps from intruding on each others windows/tabs/whatever. I might personally use it so I can get to my more important pages quicker via the taskbar (hopefully these won't collapse into a single Firefox tab on the taskbar) or alt-tab.
- masterthiefster, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1Assuming Prism apps run through Prism.exe (instead of Firefox.exe) they will indeed get a separate taskbar stack.
- rkthoadan, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2Which may not seem very useful to most diggers, but I can see it being very useful for a companies internal web-based apps (except that so many of those are IE only). It lets you separate your app from the browser more effectively and (hopefully) keeps web-based apps from intruding on each others windows/tabs/whatever. I might personally use it so I can get to my more important pages quicker via the taskbar (hopefully these won't collapse into a single Firefox tab on the taskbar) or alt-tab.
- nakani, on 10/26/2007, -1/+4Unless you use the web application so often that you might as well open it like a native OS application.
- natecope, on 10/28/2007, -0/+6jeez. Learn to make decent screenshots... At least make them clickable if they're unreadable in their article size. >
- emehrkay, on 10/28/2007, -5/+5Thank GOD!
We're not stuck in the proprietary clutches of a big time corporation who is out to control the world (Adobe, Microsoft).
Now I am interested in these "off line" applications.
I am excited- jebsilver, on 10/28/2007, -2/+3What type of world dominating practices is Adobe engaged in? They've opened up Flash, they've opened up Flex, they provide a terrific application server... How are you stuck in Adobe's clutches?
Oh I get it... any company with a revenue is "evil", right?- emehrkay, on 10/27/2007, -0/+5Not at all, I love capitalism. I love how one is able to take open standards and create and sell and profit from it. Flash it great, but not open, AIR (from what I hear) is great too, has some openess to it, but still isnt.
I guess my point is that open community driven standards > closed corporation driven ones.
Dont get me wrong, some of the best advances to those open standards come from these corps - xmlhttprequest, media plugins, etc. But as you see, they take off once they are in the open world.
- emehrkay, on 10/27/2007, -0/+5Not at all, I love capitalism. I love how one is able to take open standards and create and sell and profit from it. Flash it great, but not open, AIR (from what I hear) is great too, has some openess to it, but still isnt.
- graeh, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Our concerns of Adobe behaving in a monopolistic or closed manner should have been somewhat addressed by the fairly massive and self-motivated efforts they have put into open-sourcing flex, creating linux plugins and IDEs for Flash/Flex, being an active contributor to the ECMA script governing body, writing the latest version of ActionScript (3.0) from the ground up with an entirely new VM based on strict ECMA code standards, giving away the Flex/AS3.0 compiler for free, creating AIR as a cross platform runtime, selecting Webkit as its HTML engine of choice, and providing significant community support to allow those interested to learn and create with their tools in the way they see fit.
That laundry list of efforts by Adobe really should not go unnoticed - and labelling their efforts as being "properitary clutches" seems a little off target from reality.
- jebsilver, on 10/28/2007, -2/+3What type of world dominating practices is Adobe engaged in? They've opened up Flash, they've opened up Flex, they provide a terrific application server... How are you stuck in Adobe's clutches?
- geogia456, on 10/27/2007, -7/+0 it's a firefox but they have hidden the navigation bar? We plan to armed us by this, this is an plan we dicided at millionairematch.com No kidding!
- johnnysaucepn, on 10/28/2007, -5/+8Holy cow - it's Opera widgets plus desktop shortcuts!
Seriously, that's all this is. Web pages with no chrome that operate outside the browser. Opera's been doing these things for almost two years, and now you can run them on the Wii or mobiles.- neutrino15, on 10/28/2007, -3/+4Not even! Its like bookmarking a popup window!
You can hide the nav bar from inside your webpage if you wish, however people dislike not having control.. so why would you ever want to force people to use that!
Seriously though, want an open way to do this, download google gears and learn how to bookmark + create shortcuts.
- neutrino15, on 10/28/2007, -3/+4Not even! Its like bookmarking a popup window!
- richIsBored, on 10/28/2007, -3/+47If you digg this, press F11.
- nhprm, on 10/28/2007, -3/+4Oh, I see what you made me do there.
- Zippo, on 10/26/2007, -3/+1I see what you did there
- simplynix, on 10/27/2007, -5/+4It hid my window, PC boy.
- Ssullivan, on 10/28/2007, -4/+11Macs *ARE* "PC's" you moron... is the Mac not a "Personal Computer?"
- MalDON, on 10/30/2007, -0/+3Apple doesn't think so. The at test for the latest Apple email said something like "Nows the perfect time to break from your PC"
- richIsBored, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1Oh darn. You've got me. I didn't do my research.
I failed to account for all the possible combinations of hardware and operating systems then cross reference that list with browsers that respond to F11 by going into full screen.
My bad. I'm sure the joke would have been much funnier too.
- Ssullivan, on 10/28/2007, -4/+11Macs *ARE* "PC's" you moron... is the Mac not a "Personal Computer?"
- markstory, on 10/26/2007, -2/+1My Dashboard has nothing to do with my browser... good try though.
- Macskeeball, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Dashboard is F12 by default. F11, however, is Exposé: Show Desktop.
- richIsBored, on 10/30/2007, -0/+1See above.
- neutrino15, on 10/26/2007, -3/+3Ok, I don't get this...
Shortcuts (mac, windows, linux!) = Prism...
Google Gears (mac, windows, linux) = More than prism
Best of all, both are FREE and OPEN SOURCE (at least google gears is).
Please explain why this is useful, and why mozilla thinks this should compete with AIR and Silverlight!- Ancestor, on 10/26/2007, -0/+5What they mean is that they are promoting open standards like CSS, HTML, and JS as a platform for web applications. Therefore, Prism indirectly competes with AIR and Silverlight - it empowers the platform of open standards.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Silverlight is just a flash competitor
it has no reach on the desktop market
besides maybe using an .hta to run silverlight
but thats the only way I could think of
and anyway
air is the only competitor to prism/webrunner (webrunner is the already available existing version of prism)
- cbovis, on 10/28/2007, -5/+9Buried for inaccuracies, this isn't a competitor to AIR or silverlight.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1it could be considering air does the same thing
it allows you to make desktop specific versions of sites
or in air's case flash apps since its completely plausible to have an web version of a air app using flash (maybe without some features but in theory it shouldnt be to hard)
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1it could be considering air does the same thing
- kavaliro, on 10/26/2007, -7/+1I really admire the beauty of this current situation. Here is Microsoft, Adobe, and Mozilla trying desperately to gain the market share in using the browser to do something it's been capable of since Mozilla got it's very first plugin. And yet, Mozilla looks like the latecomer.
Air, Silverlight, and Prism are all just hacked-together frameworks for crippling the browser so badly it behaves like a desktop application, and making an icon so you can cripple it from the comfort of a desktop icon. Honestly, this has been possible for a long time.
The rub comes from the fact that now they want to be able to use their scripting languages to build the website, instead of html. So in the case of Air(Adobe) that means Actionscript. (The bastard offspring of Flash and (I think) Director. I'm not saying it's incapable. I'm just saying look what it was built for. Maybe that's an advantage, though.)
Silverlight is yet more crippleware from Microsoft. It only runs on windows, and only in Internet Exploder. I don't care if it has an API to DIE for--it's doomed. The days of being able to build for one platform are over. Only the marketing department can save it now.
Prism seems like a latecomer, but in fact most plugins do damn near the same thing as what Air and Silverlight are trying to do. The only difference is that they don't cripple the browser first. Well, in most cases, anyway. Where Mozilla fails it is in the API. I haven't looked at Prism yet, but is there one? What's making Air and Silverlight look attractive is that there's a programming interface to them. Not some arcane jumble of javascript,html,css,php,perl,ruby, and sql, but one (1) language that handles all that other junk in the background. Ok, that's not absolutely the case, but that's the real goal. Prism is too little, too late as far as API goes.
If I were looking to build an application on this kind of tech, AIR wins, hands down. Good API, Cross-platform, built-in multimedia capabilities (since it's flash-based.) None of the rest stand a chance. I'd love to see Prism win because it's open source but it won't and can't.
Mozilla should have won this race a long time ago, and just utterly dropped the ball when it came to having a programming interface.- caranthir, on 11/06/2007, -1/+1"It only runs on windows, and only in Internet Exploder:" Not true.
- HalfGiraffe, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2Actually ActionScript is a very powerful version of ECMAscript (i.e. JavaScript et al) . It does have roots in Flash so the multimedia and animation stuff is dead simple but it's also great for rapid development of all sorts of web applications (using Adobe Flex).
- tempusrob, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2Erm ... you can use Plain Old Javascript and HTML to develop an AIR app. Even if you want to hook into the runtime for stuff like offline storage, all you need to do is use their JS bindings. If you really wanted to go nuts you could abstract their JS bindings so that it's portable between the other "offline web" frameworks.
- Kailash.Nadh, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1hm, I don't understand what is so special about this. I remember scripting .hta files to load webpages in their own window, on Windows 98 years ago, and again, a silly VB app that used the IE activex control to load pages.
Prism is basically firefox without the look and feel of a browser, isn't it?- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1yes
but the advantage of that is you dont need to use tridant (the Internet explorer engine) to check gmail/inbox.com/yahoo.com/goowy.com/mail.live.com/ on the desktop
and the same method (webrunner) is currently more cross platform then .hta and .air
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1yes
- Stonekeeper, on 10/27/2007, -2/+17I'm guessing people have missed what's really going on here. Imagine you're coding a web application. A lot of time is spent getting your app configured to work in all manner of browsers. Well, forget that, just bundle this to the end user. It makes it easy to _not_ have it compatible with IE.
- multitude, on 10/28/2007, -1/+6Oh, this makes more sense. Thanks Stonekeeper.
- Stonekeeper, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1You're welcome! You're also the first person to thank me for a comment so... er... thanks! :D
- Vorsuc, on 10/27/2007, -3/+1How's that different from plastering 'requires Firefox' on the front page of your App and linking to Mozilla? Those who don't have it are going to have to run an installer and isn't that the whole situation we're trying to avoid by writing apps for the web, ya know, this whole idea of being able to use any client browser to access from any location on any machine (linux, mac os, win)?
- darkciti2, on 10/27/2007, -0/+3Because you only need to run the AIR (or Prism) app once. The first time it's run it installs the components required for every subsequent AIR/Prism app. The installer can be transparent to the user, so it's nice because it doesn't require the user to do something "scary" like installing a new browser.
- masterthiefster, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1Prism is no more of a restriction than Flash, which YouTube and the like require for all their content--or are you going to whine about Flash too?
Prism is intended as more of a runtime (like Java or .NET), rather than being Firefox with a new name. The whole point is for the resulting apps to NOT look like a browser. Many users won't even realise it's a streamlined Firefox/Mozilla build.- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1you mean webrunner with a new name
firefox is webrunner (well more or less the other way arround) but webrunner is more scaled down and lacks many of the features of firefox
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1you mean webrunner with a new name
- dkbg, on 10/27/2007, -1/+1Yeah, that's not the intent... Vorsuc's comment sums it up pretty well, in that I'm pretty sure that is exactly what Mozilla does not want to happen.
- multitude, on 10/28/2007, -1/+6Oh, this makes more sense. Thanks Stonekeeper.
- caranthir, on 11/06/2007, -7/+0It only runs on windows, and only in Internet Exploder: Not true.
- BinaryFragger, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1RTFA:
"We have an early prototype for this working today on Windows, with work continuing on Mac and Linux (for which we should have builds available soon)."
And it doesn't require IE. It uses Gecko 1.9, which is the same rendering engine as Firefox 3.0. It also uses XULRunner: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/XULRunner
Nonetheless, the article's title is inaccurate. This is not a Silverlight competitor.
- BinaryFragger, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1RTFA:
- TyR88, on 10/27/2007, -4/+3I got really exited when I saw this headline... But wtf... c'mon mozilla, you can do better than this :/
- bladefist, on 10/26/2007, -6/+0yes, more plugins!!! i love installing plugins everytime i visit a site.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Its NOT a plugin
its an scaled down version of firefox used for opening websites in their own field
using .webapp files
which in idiotspeak means yes desktop meebo- bladefist, on 10/31/2007, -0/+0how are you so good at idiotspeak?
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1Its NOT a plugin
- thisisshaun, on 10/27/2007, -6/+0buried for the twitter logo about 3 folds down.
- caranthir, on 11/06/2007, -10/+3It has taken Microsoft five (5) years to build .NET Gates half-jokingly said "it had cost more than to put a man on the moon". For the first time REAL money were thrown upon developers. .NET is the most awesome developer platform that ever has existed in computer history. Silverlight (a subset of .NET) is both cross browser and cross platform. .NET will be the leading development tool for the next 20 years, at least. Linux will not ever ever have a chance on the desktop before the Mono team has made a compatible version. No way. Yes. It is that important. With that I mean the SDK. Finished applications run already in Mac/Firefox. I wonder what next little insignificant-developed-in-the-kitchen tool the Opens Source Talibans will compare with .NET?
- Vorsuc, on 10/26/2007, -3/+0Have you used Silverlight? Blend's horrific to actually build anything in, Flash has a much nicer, smother interface but that's because Adobe/Macromedia have years of experience to draw on and is easily the winner if you need to develop something rapidly.
Silverlight's a nice 'gimick' at the moment but 1.1 is estimated to be around 12 months away from release and you can practically guarantee that we'll see a repeat of '99% of Flash is bad' coming once the code monkeys get their hands on it. The only good news is that there are *still* a good number of .NET devs who are using the 1.1 framework, let alone 2.0 so with luck, we've got years before they get around to Silverlight.- Atomic1fire, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1once silverlight can do something impressive flash will have its problems
- tempusrob, on 10/26/2007, -0/+3</satire>?
- Vorsuc, on 10/26/2007, -3/+0Have you used Silverlight? Blend's horrific to actually build anything in, Flash has a much nicer, smother interface but that's because Adobe/Macromedia have years of experience to draw on and is easily the winner if you need to develop something rapidly.
- samelevel, on 10/26/2007, -4/+2I wonder what Ctrl+T will do inside this amazing new innovative thing
- incubusknight, on 10/26/2007, -2/+2This is nothing new... try this at home:
Create a web page, but instead of htm or html extension, save it with hta (which stands for HTml Application.)
Concept is old as air... erm... not the Adobe one.- dkbg, on 10/26/2007, -0/+4Yeah, that's nothing like this at all...plus that technique is Windows-only.
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1webrunner... I mean prism is just firefoxes engine running .webapp files
which are just renamed .zip files with a .ini file inside them telling them which website to open
- Atomic1fire, on 10/27/2007, -0/+1webrunner... I mean prism is just firefoxes engine running .webapp files
- dkbg, on 10/26/2007, -0/+4Yeah, that's nothing like this at all...plus that technique is Windows-only.
- jpb0104, on 10/26/2007, -1/+2The new Yahoo Mail doesn't work with prism.
- t5un4m1, on 10/26/2007, -4/+0blah
- GreedKills, on 10/26/2007, -1/+2So this is like running a Firefox extension in a mini-firefox window?
- megadan76, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2Hmm, I thought it was going to be a gimmick, but that seems pretty cool.
- kuehlschrank, on 10/26/2007, -1/+3It would be really cool, If web applications could hook into the system tray, raise popups, send messages to the event log and so on. Go, Prism!
- darkciti2, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1Do we really want remote web apps having that much access to our UI ?
- Atomic1fire, on 10/26/2007, -1/+2so in other words its just webrunner with a cool name
- arjung, on 10/26/2007, -0/+3can anyone explain the difference between this and google gears?
- dkbg, on 10/26/2007, -0/+5Google Gears is simply a browser add-on which enables offline use of web applications inside a web browser which supports the add-on. Prism/Webrunner allows you to use a web application as if it were a normal desktop application by creating a separate instance of the runtime (Firefox/XULRunner) which has nothing to do with your browser and which only shows the web app. Firefox 3 will have offline storage built in without the need for Google Gears and thus Prism will too, but this is only one aspect of what Prism does.
- stronglikedan, on 10/26/2007, -0/+3I love how they let the browser resize the images in the story so that they are garbled and illegible. Always good web design from one of the leaders in the field.
- thanethane, on 10/26/2007, -0/+1The wshell script it runs on my machine gives a function not found message. Oh well.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/26/2007, -0/+3It isn't Silverlight -- but I don't think it is "just a bookmark" for a collection of apps.
My guess is it is about orchestrating communication between various web-related apps, caching content, and then providing an interface between them. With a quick read, I guess it would allow you to customize a "functionality" -- more than a widget. You could produce custom apps or kiosks with web data. It then gives you a nice 3D environment in which to view it.
It had better be pretty easy, because it seems more USER-centric. In that, if it is difficult, it had better have good performance. As a quasi-developer, I'm building Kiosk apps that use the web, and I want something that can use the most out of the computer, and is reliable -- so I'm not looking for EVERY platform or app -- I just want results. Silverlight and Air seem targeted towards developers already using popular Microsoft and Adobe technologies. Microsoft seems more server-based, and Adobe seems more client-based, but with real solutions on the back-end too (advantage, Adobe IMHO).
So that sticks this software squarely in the EASY TO USE, CONSUMER arena. - DjArcadian, on 10/26/2007, -4/+1So basically it's links to websites on your desktop without the URL/status/icon bars? Ummm, sorry. This is hardly noteworthy and actually a pretty cheap gimmick. The presence of back/forward buttons has never confused me when it came to using online apps like Google Docs.
- DjArcadian, on 10/26/2007, -1/+1BTW, it doesn't really work. Everytime I add a web app to my desktop and I close it it asks me to enter in the information again when I click the icon again.
- mike503, on 10/26/2007, -0/+0ugh. now we have even more "standards" out there. why not collaborate so designers and end users can both breathe easy for once and design consistent pages/apps. it's like the same browser wars just with a new platform once again. sigh.
- cmdrNacho, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2beacause adobe and ms want to commercialize everything revolving around there proprietary formats... where as mozilla has found a business model revolving around being open source, and are still able to generate profits. When everything is open,, whose the one that doesn't want to collarborate
- iammikecohen, on 10/27/2007, -1/+1I am going to support those with the WTF news!?! mentality this is pretty worthless and no where near what air is going to be.
- Samji, on 10/26/2007, -0/+2Prism is not really a competitor to either AIR or Silverlight which are targeted platforms for applications, whereas Prism is a desktop platform for any existing web application which it supports.
Also Silverlight is a much closer competitor to Flash than anything else. - bacon_skoda, on 10/26/2007, -1/+3i'm waiting for someone to write a calculator prism that queries google.
because math should be open source, right? - outOfIdeas, on 10/27/2007, -0/+7The Digg effect-
Headline: "Mozilla launches competitor to AIR and Silverlight"
Article: "Unlike Adobe AIR and Microsoft Silverlight..."- GreenAlien, on 10/27/2007, -0/+5Exactly. Most of the people in this thread seem to be reacting to what the submitter rambled on about in the digg title rather than the article itself. Guys, Mozilla havent claimed they've created a new platform so quit putting words in their mouth. This is just a handy extension that some may find handy. They never claimed it was anything more. Read the freaken article and stop being so dramatic about it.
From the article:
"Prism isn’t a new platform, it’s simply the web platform integrated into the desktop experience."
- GreenAlien, on 10/27/2007, -0/+5Exactly. Most of the people in this thread seem to be reacting to what the submitter rambled on about in the digg title rather than the article itself. Guys, Mozilla havent claimed they've created a new platform so quit putting words in their mouth. This is just a handy extension that some may find handy. They never claimed it was anything more. Read the freaken article and stop being so dramatic about it.
- Brainclone, on 10/27/2007, -1/+3Access to the desktop from the webapp is probably the most important part... kinda like google gears...
- scantly, on 10/26/2007, -2/+2The title is misleading. I believe Adobe donated the source to Mozilla.
- nshahzad, on 10/27/2007, -6/+1first make a browser that works properly and doesn't crash every 5 minutes, as it has been doing for the past 3 updates.
- melitta, on 10/26/2007, -3/+0I don`t understand... So this is like running a Firefox extension in a mini-firefox window?
-
Show 51 - 58 of 58 discussions
Digg is coming to a city (and computer) near you! Check out all the details on our 
© Digg Inc. 2008 —
Content posted by
