Donkeys and Elephants and Delegates,oh my!
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Microsoft hires standards expert to work on Wikipedia entry on ODF/OOXML
oreillynet.com — From Rick Jelliffe's Blog: "So I was a little surprised to receive email a couple of days ago from Microsoft saying they wanted to contract someone independent but friendly (me) for a couple of days to provide more balance on Wikipedia concerning ODF/OOXML."
raghos- 624 diggs
- digg it
- schestowitz, on 11/07/2007, -187/+68This is just the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft shills are attacking me. The above is very timely news as well. Yes, Microsoft pays people to edit Wikipedia, but also to attack people and spread FUD in Digg (see todtrent and other Digg members like naio21) and the Web... forums included... they were caught doing this in the days of OS/2 (see citations below).
Be aware that a little army of shills is going to great lengths to disrupt what people like myself do... express their love for freedom.
This morning they also flooded UseNet with all kinds of tripe... stuff posted on my behalf (a gkaer with my name) saying I want to castrate myself. It's becoming scary...
http://groups.google.com/group/24hoursupport.helpdesk/msg/58ff4550dccedfb3?dmode=source
It's the same group of astroturfers. They are writing stuff under my name and it has gone on for many months. People be aware of all this. Also see similar examples of Microsoft astroturfing below. Thanks for listening and sorry about the length. Spread the word if you can.
Shill season
,----[ Quote ]
| It's often difficult to figure out the motivation behind a particular
| study - until one finds out who has commissioned and paid for it.
| The so-called tech consulting companies would love it if the consumer
| believes that they have conducted an "independent" study. The worrying
| thing is that not many people blow their cover.
`----
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/8109/1090/
Related:
NY Times rattles IT industry with analyst ban
,----[ Quote ]
| Speaking of which, let's see what triggered the Enderle/Microsoft
| ban.
|
| In a story about Microsoft's XBox, Enderle described the direct
| relationship between the game console, download services and the TV.
`----
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/12/12/analyst_nytimes/
Microsoft Press Releases: Read Between the Lines
,----[ Quote ]
| We have a game we play around the office here with Microsoft press
| releases. The game is called Find the words that make the headline
| true. It's not always easy.
|
| [...]
|
| Our point: Microsoft has a long history of using press releases top
| romote their product momentum in shall we say interesting ways,
| using words like "fastest growing" (meaning, the number we started
| with was really really small) to redefining words such as "sold."
| It's not good marketing practice. Why? Because once consumers and
| press people figure out you are playing lawyer, they stop believing
| you and your brand. And that's more likely to do you harm than good.
`----
http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/061211/22190_id.html?.v=1
Microsoft's Xbox 360 US sales-NPD story withdrawn
,----[ Quote ]
| The Los Angeles story headlined "Microsoft's Xbox 360 US sales
| top first Xbox--NPD" is withdrawn because the data supporting the
| story may be inaccurate. Reuters is waiting for an update from the
| company. A new story may be issued.
`----
http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061208:MTFH45656_2006-12-08_01-12-52_N07221320&type=comktNews&rpc=44
Microsoft Xbox to Join the Battle for Video Downloading
,----[ Quote ]
| Editors' Note: November 10, 2006, Friday An article in Business Day
| on Tuesday described a decision by Microsoft to offer movies and
| episodes of television shows for downloading through its Xbox Live
| online service in the United States.
|
| The article quoted Rob Enderle, principal analyst at the Enderle
| Group, discussing the features that set Xbox Live service apart
| and its position in the market.
|
| But the article did not note that Mr. Enderle had Microsoft as a client,
| a fact later pointed out by a reader. Mr. Enderle does consulting work
| for several of Microsoft's product groups, though not for the one
| developing the Xbox; still, had The Times known of Mr. Enderle's work
| for Microsoft, it would not have sought out his opinion on the product.
`----
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50713F83A5B0C748CDDA80994DE404482
http://tinyurl.com/y3avsv
Corporate Propaganda Still On the News: Study Finds Local Stations
Overwhelmingly Fail to Disclose VNRs
,----[ Quote ]
| A new study by the Center for Media and Democracy says Americans are
| still being shown corporate public relations videos disguised as news
| reports on newscasts across the country.
`----
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/14/1518200
Wrong Yesterday Wrong Today Wrong Tomorrow
,----[ Quote ]
| I just got through watching a segment on the Today Show on NBC
| highlighting the launch of the Microsoft Zune.
|
| First of all, I thought journalists were suppose to reveal their
| affiliations with any product if such an affiliation exists.
| Microsoft owns a stake in NBC ie MSNBC News Network.
|
| [...]
|
| Second, all the side by side product comparisons showed 4th Gen iPods
| with monochrome screens with no song selected or playing, while the
| Zune was playing a video.
|
| [...]
|
| This isn't the first time NBC has misled its morning viewers with
| puff pieces about the Zune.
`----
http://fixyourthinking.com/2006/11/wrong-yesterday-wrong-today-wrong.html
Bill Gates lends cash to buy newspapers
$350 million to MediaNews
,----[ Quote ]
| Gates involvement has been very behind the scenes. In fact many of
| those involved in the deal didn'teven know he was one of the investors.
| It was carried out through the Gates Foundation, the world's largest
| philanthropy outfit.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33849
Should MSNBC really be "reviewing" (Microsoft's) Gears of War?
,----[ Quote ]
| MSNBC recently reviewed Gears of War, calling it the Xbox 360's first
| killer app.... Nowhere on the page is any indication of the possible
| ethical issue MSNBC is "Microsoft-NBC", and the site is hosted as a
| subdomain of msn.com (a major Microsoft portal). Is this really balanced
| journalism?
`----
http://www.thisisby.us/index.php/content/should_msnbc_really_be__quot_reviewing_quot__gears_of_war_
Has Demetri Martin Jumped the Shark by Getting Into Bed with Microsoft?
Clarification on "Clearification" Marketing Campaign
,----[ Quote ]
| When I first saw the Clearification website, I just thought it was
| Demetri's new project. But I did wonder why the videos were of such
| high production value. Turns out that Microsoft is footing the bill
| to not only this site, but are also underwritting his current tour.
`----
http://www.themodernage.org/2006/11/12/demetri-martin-bring-clearification-to-the-web/
,----[ Quote ]
| In 2001, the Los Angeles Times accused Microsoft of astroturfing
| when hundreds of similar letters were sent to newspapers voicing
| disagreement with the United States Department of Justice and its
| antitrust suit against Microsoft. The letters, prepared by Americans
| for Technology Leadership, had in some cases been mailed from
| deceased citizens or nonexistent addresses.
`----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
A new Microsoft-commissioned anti-Linux study debuts
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft seemingly has backed off from trumpeting its "Get the
| Facts" studies, as of late. But that doesn't mean the company has
| ceased commissioning research outfits to perform its anti-Linux dirty
| work.
|
| On September 25, Mercer Management Consulting released a new
| Microsoft-backed study. The study is entitled "Driving Lower TCO and
| Rapid ROI through UNIX Migrations." The synopsis: "Microsoft Windows
| the preferred choice for UNIX migration when IT organizations migrate
| servers as part of a focused effort to improve business processes,
| deploy critical applications or restructure their IT architecture."
`----
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/index.php?p=12
IDC pronounces Linux unimportant to European economy
,----[ Quote ]
| A recent IDC white paper on the economic impact of Microsoft's super
| soaraway new Vista operating system seems to be lacking one crucial
| ingredient -- other operating systems.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34542
ToorCon ("Firefox security is a mess") sponsored by Microsoft
,----[ Quote ]
| Lately, I read the headline: "Open Source browser Firefox is so
| critically flawed that it is impossible to fix, according to two
| hackers." Further on, in the ZDNet article I read: "The hackers claim
| they know of about 30 unpatched Firefox flaws. They don't plan to
| disclose them, instead holding onto the bugs."
|
| Since that sounds suspicious, I decided to start searching for
| connections with MS. Easy enough, here it is...
`----
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/70873/index.html
,----[ Quote ]
| Could there be more bad news? Of course! Even Paul Thurrott isn't
| impressed with the Zune, calling its pricing strategy the "makings of
| a disaster." Misery! Not only has the Zune suffered a horrific wreck of
| a product introduction, but Annie Wilkes is at the foot of the bed saying
| she doesn't approve of how things are going.
|
| If your number one fan is sending you hate mail, you have a problem.
| So what's with all the Zune related web sites carefully repeating the
| same talking points? It's called astroturfing.
|
| Instead of inspiring actual interest in a grassroots fashion, Microsoft
| has resorted to spreading fake grass, crafting each site to suggestt
| he appearance of something other than the advertisement it is.
|
| This is similar to the scam Microsoft pulled with its own imitation of
| Apple's Switchers ad campaign. Titled "Confessions of a Mac to PC
| Convert," the ad portrayed a professionally dressed woman complaining
| about her Mac, but ended up being a canned picture pulled from stock
| photography and voiced by a professional writer.
|
| Similarly, Greenpeace staffers have assigned to post astroturf comments
| on websites saying "I'm a Mac user and gosh darn it I think that
| Greenpeace is alright with all their concern about the ecology!" More
| on that scam later!
|
| One would expect a certain level of interest and excitement out of
| Microsoft's own users, but that isn't really happening. Nearly every
| Zune site on the web is carefully stepping around the piles of problems
| to spend a lot of time on Microsoft supplied bullet points, including
| the "celebration of music," the slightly larger or at least
| stretched display, and how wireless DRM sharing is such a
| brilliant idea.
`----
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/9F60D74A-0E27-4F5F-B88D-835974628809.html
MSN Is Spamming The Blogosphere
,----[ Quote ]
| Mr. Youth LLC is a marketing firm and lists MSN as a customer. Their
| website is here: http://www.mryouth.com/ Their phone number is
| (212) 779-8700.
|
| I've talked to a couple of other bloggers who said they are receiving
| similar comments on their blogs. This pisses me off because MSN/Mr.
| Youth should 1) be more upfront about their true identity, and 2)
| provide a real e-mail address so that I can request they take my
| blog off their marketing campaign.
`----
http://www.scott-o-rama.com/2006/12/06/msn-is-spamming-the-blogosphere/
FTC Moves to Unmask Word-of-Mouth Marketing
,----[ Quote ]
| The Federal Trade Commission yesterday said that companies engaging
| in word-of-mouth marketing, in which people are compensated to
| promote products to their peers, must disclose those relationships.
|
| [...]
|
| Word-of-mouth marketing can take any form of peer-to-peer communication,
| such as a post on a Web blog, a MySpace.com page for a movie character,
| or the comments of a stranger on a bus.
|
| As the practice has taken hold over the past several years, however,
| some advocacy groups have questioned whether marketers are using such
| tactics to dupe consumers into believing they are getting unbiased
| information.
`----
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/11/AR2006121101389.html?nav=hcmodule
Microsoft Traps and Hunts for Bloggers in India !!
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft has announced the "Microsoft BlogStars" contest, to Hunts
| for Developer Bloggers in India. After feeling the power and increase of
| the Bloggers community in India, Microsoft tries to trap and hunt Bloggers
| in India to buildup the blogging community, for writing blog posts
| supporting towards Microsoft Technologies.
`----
http://i5bala.blogspot.com/2006/10/microsoft-traps-and-hunts-for-bloggers.html
,----[ Quote ]
| Long before it employed bloggers to do the job for it, Microsoft hired
| sympathetic members of the public to make its case in online forums,
| posing as disinterested citizens. Things got much more professional as
| the antitrust trial unfurled. After hiring DCI in the late 1990s,
| Microsoft created two new trade groups, the Association for Competitive
| Technology (ACT), and the Americans for Technology Leadership (ALT),
| and marshaled campaigns such as "Freedom to Innovate" - encouraging
| Windows users the chance to make spontaneous gestures of support for
| Chairman Bill.
|
| These weren't always too successful. A campaign in 2001 to petition 17
| state's Attorney Generals - who had pooled resources to bring their
| own antitrust action against Microsoft - resulted in supportive letters
| being written by dead people.
|
| And the astroturf taint continues today.
|
| Most recently, a spoof video portraying Al Gore as a Penguin was reported
| to have originated from a computer registered to the DCI Group, although
| the lobby group said it did not fund or approve the video.
`----
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/14/google_lobby/
,----[ Quote ]
| "Some years back, Microsoft practiced a lot of dirty tricks using
| online mavens to go into forums and create Web sites extolling the virtues
| of Windows over OS/2. They were dubbed the Microsoft Munchkins, and it
| was obvious who they were and what they were up to. But their numbers
| and energy (and they way they joined forces with nonaligned dummies who
| liked to pile on) proved too much for IBM marketers, and Windows wont
| he operating-system war through fifth-column tactics"
|
| Mr Dvorak wonders if Microsoft is today using reverse-dirty-tricks
| to promote the Xbox 360: pay people to create Web sites that slam the
| gaming computer in order to provoke a barrage of defenders.
`----
http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/gizmos/2005/11/2_grassroots_an.html
,----[ Quote ]
| Instead of inspiring actual interest in a grassroots fashion, Microsoft
| has resorted to spreading fake grass, crafting each site to suggest
| the appearance of something other than the advertisement it is.
|
| This is similar to the scam Microsoft pulled with its own imitation of
| Apple's Switchers ad campaign. Titled "Confessions of a Mac to PC
| Convert," the ad portrayed a professionally dressed woman complaining
| about her Mac, but ended up being a canned picture pulled from stock
| photography and voiced by a professional writer.
|
| Similarly, Greenpeace staffers have assigned to post astroturf comments
| on websites saying "I'm a Mac user and gosh darn it I think that
| Greenpeace is alright with all their concern about the ecology!" More
| on that scam later!
|
| One would expect a certain level of interest and excitement out of
| Microsoft's own users, but that isn't really happening. Nearly every
| Zune site on the web is carefully stepping around the piles of problems
| to spend a lot of time on Microsoft supplied bullet points, including
| the "celebration of music," the slightly larger or at least
| stretched display, and how wireless DRM sharing is such a
| brilliant idea.
`----
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Home/9F60D74A-0E27-4F5F-B88D-835974628809.html
Big businesses boast of patent benefits, for small businesses
,----[ Quote ]
| A report published by an EU task force on intellectual property claims
| that small businesses benefit from a patent system, despite lacking
| almost any participation by the small business community.
|
| Instead, the report, titled IPR (intellectual property rights) for
| competitiveness and innovation, was written up almost entirely by
| large corporations and the patent industry.
|
| [...]
|
| The report does note objections from the likes of patentfrei.de and
| Sun Microsystems, which were recorded at some length in the report.
| But this does not appear to have impacted the conclusion of the
| report in any way
|
| [...]
|
| Jean-Pierre Laisne, of ObjectWeb, an open source software community,
| said that he found the report useless: participants were told that
| all their contributions would be recorded but at the end only
| those of Business Software Alliance and Microsoft were used.
`----
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/99155/big-businesses-boast-of-patent-benefits-for-small-businesses.html
MA Governor-Elect Names MS Anti-ODF Lobbyist to Technology Advisory Group
,----[ Quote ]
| That person is Brian Burke, the Microsoft Regional Director for Public
| Affairs, and if that surprises you, it surprises me as well, given the
| degree of acrimonious debate and disinformation witnessed in Massachusetts
| over the last 15 months involving the Information Technology Division's
| transition to ODF.... it is my understanding that it was Burke who led
| the lobbying effort on Beacon Hill against ODF, and also urged legislators
| to introduce the amendment intended to take away much of the ITD's
| planning power generally, and as regards standards specifically, and hand
| it to a task force made up of political appointees.... Although I'm told
| that Burke announced yesterday at the first meeting of the new working
| group that he will be participating as a private citizen rather than a
| Microsoft employee, I believe that Burke should recuse himself from
| participating in any discussions or recommendations relating to
| document format standards.
`----
http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20061128161343183
Changing the Report, After the Vote
,----[ Quote ]
| That agreement was nearly imperiled last weekend, though. Gerri
| Elliott, corporate vice president at Microsoft's Worldwide Public
| Sector division, sent an e-mail message to fellow commissioners
| Friday evening saying that she "vigorously" objected to a paragraph
| in which the panel embraced and encouraged the development of open
| source software and open content projects in higher education.
`----
http://insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/01/commission
A new Microsoft-commissioned anti-Linux study debuts
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft seemingly has backed off from trumpeting its "Get the
| Facts" studies, as of late. But that doesn't mean the company has
| ceased commissioning research outfits to perform its anti-Linux dirty
| work.
|
| On September 25, Mercer Management Consulting released a new
| Microsoft-backed study. The study is entitled "Driving Lower TCO and
| Rapid ROI through UNIX Migrations." The synopsis: "Microsoft Windows
| the preferred choice for UNIX migration when IT organizations migrate
| servers as part of a focused effort to improve business processes,
| deploy critical applications or restructure their IT architecture."
`----
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/index.php?p=12
,----[ Quote ]
| This is something Microsoft must know is coming, which is why it is
| trying to discredit any existing efforts to deploy Linux in schools,
| like ACCESS. Fortunately in this case, we don't have to buy what
| they are trying to sell.
`----
http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_management/2006120102126OPMRPB
Study: open source needs official support; Lobbyist
disagrees with "flawed" conclusions
,----[ Quote ]
| The study, commissioned by the European Commission, Directorate
| General Enterprise and Industry, is but a small part of the larger
| FLOSSPOLS project that aims to keep the EU a leader in global
| development of open source software.
|
| [...]
|
| Now, the ISC is widely regarded as a shill for Microsoft, although
| the member list also includes companies like Intel, Autodesk, and
| RSA Security (now an EMC subsidiary). The 300-strong member list is
| mostly padded with lesser lights such as Yapi ve Kredi Bankasi(
| Turkey), ThreeSixtyDegreez (Pakistan), and Datoprogrammu Apgads
| (Latvia). The institute pushes hard for the right to patent
| software, alongside regular bashings of open source businesses.
`----
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061017-8011.html
Report Says Nonprofits Sold Influence to Abramoff
,----[ Quote ]
| E-mails released by the committee show that Abramoff, often
| with the knowledge of the groups' leaders, exploited the tax-exempt
| status and leveraged the stature of the organizations to build
| support among conservatives for legislation or government action
| sought by clients including Microsoft Corp., mutual fund company
| DH2 Inc., Primedia Inc.'s Channel One Network, and Brown-Forman,
| maker of Jack Daniel's whiskey.
`----
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101200889.html
http://tinyurl.com/y2rbpu
EU official joins consultancy serving Microsoft
http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2006-10-03T134311Z_01_L03693228_RTRIDST_0_TECH-MICROSOFT-OFFICIAL.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna
http://tinyurl.com/h47g3
US ambassador to the EU was former Microsoft lobbyist
,----[ Quote ]
| Before C. Boyden Gray was named as George Bush's number one person in
| Europe, he was a lawyer lobbying on behalf of Microsoft.
`----
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34706
Guest Post by Tony Healy: Microsoft sprung
,----[ Quote ]
| Microsoft and PR firm Edelman have been sprung in an embarrasing
| pseudo astroturf operation intended to promote the forthcoming
| operating system Vista.
`----
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2007/01/02/guest-post-by-tony-healy-microsoft-sprung/
Apple Has Fans & Microsoft Has Shills
,----[ Quote ]
| Over the years, one of the reasons why Apple has persevered despite lots
| and lots of failures in products and the "vision thing" is because so
| many people love their Macs and were willing become unpaid
| cheerleaders.
|
| [...]
|
| So I ask you: Why isn't Bill Gates proud of what the company he
| co-founded is doing?
`----
http://macnightowl.com/2007/01/17/apple-has-fans-microsoft-has-shills/- finite, on 10/12/2007, -25/+29Congratulations, that was without a doubt the lengthiest digg comment I've ever dugg up. Thank you for posting!
Anybody seeking more information about the OpenOffice ODF vs Microsoft OOXML issue should definitely read Rob Weir's blog. These two posts are a good place to start:
http://www.robweir.com/blog/2006/01/how-to-hire-guillaume-portes.html
http://www.robweir.com/blog/2007/01/guillaume-portes-redux.html - schestowitz, on 11/07/2007, -61/+21Again, I apologise about the length. I wish it weren't the truth, but I'm being targetted.
- RedLion, on 11/07/2007, -13/+70sure schestowitz, Microsoft pays people to attack you, yeah yeah...
but please, let me ask you a question first: did you at least read the article?
this is what it says: "I think I’ll accept it: FUD enrages me and MS certainly are not hiring me to add any pro-MS FUD, just to correct any errors I see. " as you could read Microsoft will pay this guy to correct errors, not for astroturfing.
Please, stop making up stuff, if somebody posts lame comment using your name on usenet it doesn't mean that it's "paid by M$" to attack you, maybe it's people pissed by your endless attacks to microsoft (you know... not everybody hates microsoft like you do, like there are people that love apple there are also people that love microsoft). - AXNJAXN, on 10/12/2007, -14/+1The phrase "hueg liek xbox" comes to mind.
+digg - catalysis, on 11/07/2007, -5/+32Someone forgot their OCD meds today.
- Kanna, on 10/12/2007, -8/+44Digg loves to bash Microsoft, so why bother RTFA when you can get dugg up for saying "***** MS"?
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19It wouldn't be unthinkable that you post crap under your own name, so that you can then say you're being targeted by MS 'posting under' your name. It's not a new tactic used by people who want to discredit someone else.
- kamilmarkowicz, on 10/12/2007, -9/+33@schestowitz
I hate to say that, but you're a tinfoil wearing conspiracy nut, that believes that Microsoft is paying people to attack you. Here is a quote by yourself "(...) I wish it weren't the truth, but I'm being targeted." It's funny how you don't even read most of the articles that you're digging, instead you just jump into any MS-related article and insert your silly, taken out of context quotes.
I hope that more people will notice this and ignore your crazy comments. You're really putting the Linux community in a bad light, and true Linux users are sure to thank you for your disservice.
/ Rant finished - dxprog, on 10/12/2007, -5/+46I dugg you down just to watch that huge thing get sucked up...
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33That comment was ridiculously long, if you've got *that* much to say then post it as it's own article. Or does the chip that the Microsoft agents planted in your brain prevent you from doing that?
- greatblackowl, on 10/12/2007, -17/+17I don't think Microsoft gives a $hit what you say about their OS. They really have no reason to do that. Think about it:
Bill Gates, the Chairman of Microsoft, is worth over $50 billion. Alone. What does he (or his company) care if some little guys on the internet bash his operating system. At the very worst, every digg user, for instance, could switch to linux, Mac, BSD, whatever.
And that's what, maybe 30,000 users? 50,000? A fraction of a percent for Microsoft.
And no, I'm not an "M$ shill" out to get you. I'm a college student. - wild, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Interesting read you have there. I could care less about your personal attacks, but the info is good and in plethora.
As for paying someone to watch a wikipedia entry, thats an interesting ethical delemma. He is independent, but he is also being swayed by cash. He should at the very least always indicate where he is editing and that he was paid to do so by MS. He could also footnote which archived version of the entry conatins the incorrect statement.
Transparency. - JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -7/+30OMG. Microsoft hired a balanced, neutral party to professionally edit Wikipedia!!!
Alert the press. A professional on the subject just edited a wikipedia page. Something must be done right now otherwise in the near future other wiki articles may be professionally edited. - Kolour, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4I think it is more funny how people think microsoft would not do this, it is very simple you pay some people to spread FUD then stupid people just copy paste and continue spreading it, just like with the Sony PlayStation 3 bashing and screaming Wii60 like a retarded kid.
- knupso, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21schestowitz is to Linux as Pat Robertson is to christanity.
He drives away more people than he converts. - Propapanda, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13You are completely bat-***** insane and that was one of the most interesting tin-foil hat posts I have ever read.
Thank you for putting a smile on my face. - kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9
"but please, let me ask you a question first: did you at least read the article?
this is what it says: "I think I’ll accept it: FUD enrages me and MS certainly are not hiring me to add any pro-MS FUD, just to correct any errors I see. " as you could read Microsoft will pay this guy to correct errors, not for astroturfing."
Bzzt. In this case, they are "hiring someone to correct errors" because there's no way they can get their normal FUD machines through the defensive line of the Wikipedia army of editors. If they try it, (and no doubt they have in the past!) they'll get smacked down with a quickness, and it'll likely get press coverage. So in this case, they're trying to do as much damage control as they can, which isn't much. I can't fault them for doing it, but I also understand that they would use much more sinister tactics if it were possible.
The Microsoft business model is about theft and mobster tactics. They're the Godfather of the electronics industry. There's not a single product they produce that wasn't stolen or taken by mob-style tactics. So knowing that, what's this whole ODF/OOXML thing about? They want to bully the industry into forcing us to use their format, to "join their union", so to speak. That way, they have power to use against their competitor, OpenOffice. Whatever else you might say about the merits of one over the other are inconsequential. This is about freedom from the Microsoft Mafia--nothing else about the whole argument matters, honestly. Because the bottom line is, OpenOffice's format is free and good, and Microsoft's format comes with a very heavy price. That's my two cents. - monkeychewtoy, on 10/12/2007, -11/+7Step one: Get a Blogger or Blogspot or Wordpress or something. Hell, a blog.myspace.com would work.
Step two: Post your wonderfully thorough but painfully long comment there, as an article.
Step three: Submit it to Digg- with the disclaimer that it's yours, of course.
Step four: Not have a long-ass comment. (Or a long ass-comment.)
Step five: Be less annoying.
Step six: ???
Step seven: Profit.
There. Seven simple steps, and that includes the obligatory "???; Profit" gag. So really. Five steps. Done.
Oh, and don't worry. You're not paranoid.
THEY REALLY ARE AFTER YOU. - redhatcat, on 10/12/2007, -14/+7To anyone who doesn't think Microsoft pays shills for big social sites:
Why would you think they wouldn't? To Microsoft, shills are an affordable way of advertising their products and safely libeling their competitors. Much more honest companies have done it and are doing it, so why would you be so naive to think that the ruthless, Redmond-based monopoly wouldn't do the same?
@schestowitz
The shills have ruined the experience for me as well. It's surprising that at one time, Digg had posts that weren't full of paid idiots spouting complete ***** against anything not owned by Microsoft. My advice is stop giving content to Digg since they aren't going to do anything about it. There are other, less compromised places you can share your views. - bias, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10"But there is also a sea of crap being produced, and if offends me a little to see the ISO process get slung with this kind of mud. I suspect that many technical reviewers for National Bodies will take a dim view of vague or stupid claims."
ODF is open and standardized, OOXML is open, standardized and from Microsoft?. You open source fanboys need to stop contradicting yourselves, if you think OOXML is bad because it's from Microsoft then there must be problem on the "Standardization", if there's a problem with "Standardization" then ODF obviously has problems. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -8/+7"ODF is open and standardized, OOXML is open, standardized and from Microsoft?. You open source fanboys need to stop contradicting yourselves, if you think OOXML is bad because it's from Microsoft then there must be problem on the "Standardization", if there's a problem with "Standardization" then ODF obviously has problems."
First of all, you get nowhere for throwing the Fanboy word around. Second of all, there's no problem with standardization, this is why we create standards bodies like ISO to manage standards. Standards are good, they allow interoperability, innovation, competition. However, there is such a thing as a bad standard, and OOXML Is an example of that. It's too lengthy, and it contains a lot of legacy compatibility drivel that's completely useless to any other implementation outside of Microsoft's own products. OOXML is an example of a BAD standard, one that should not be accepted as a standard, and instead Microsoft should conform to the already existing ODF standard, as it is already more mature (INCLUDING Microsoft Office Support), and it is generally much better understood than Microsoft's lengthy standard.
ODF has its own problems too, but they're so far much easier to manage than Microsoft's. This is why IBM chose to defend ODF over OOXML, and why it's likely ISO will not accept OOXML as a standard. This article is directly pointing out that Microsoft's trying to change public opinion by confusing the facts, something they've been accused of (and for that matter, proved to have done) in the past, that's it. Microsoft's astroturfing Wikipedia, which makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. - H3g3m0n, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6@JeffH
"OMG. Microsoft hired a balanced, neutral party to professionally edit Wikipedia!!!"
He is no longer balanced and neutral if he is getting paid money to do it.
Theres nothing stopping MS from declaring a 'neutral' party then throwing in a little extra money behind the scenes if the article is favorable to them.
Its hard to tell if MS's recent actions of love and peace towards the OS community (Novel, Wikipedia, LinuxOnZune) are a real attempt or just a way to position them selves to shove a knife in the back (ie find a patent infringement on something stupidly insignificant like font anti-aliasing and sue, or just sue heaps of developers and hope that lots are too poor and just give up rather than fight a lawsuit with the $60billion company), or more likely a slower absorption of the OS community. Even if there intentions are at least partially legitimate chances are there never going to be perceived as such and would probably give up and ditch the friendly attitude. Personally i think its just a bunch of PR stunts, they haven't really done anything that I would consider a real tangible attempt, the only thing I can think of was agreeing to allow Windows to Virtualize under Linux rather than just the other way around, which they only agreed to after a lot of pressure from Novel, and i wouldn't be surprised if they manager to screw it up in some minor but significant way. - echoic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Break out the tinfoil hats! Nutter
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3[quote]This is just the tip of the iceberg. Microsoft shills are attacking me. [/quote]
This is why we need the names listed of those that are Digging down our comments.
I have a good idea of which ones will turn up already.
You Microsoft scumbags think you can stop us? We will fight you on Digg, in the forums, and on Usenet, in the press, and the seas. We shall fight you on the desktop, and in the tubes, in the offices, and the parents' basements. We shall never rest until your foul scourge is gone from the Earth.
Listen, Shestowitz isn't exaggerating. Microsoft DOES employ astroturfers. They are hired not directly by MS, but by one of MS's several PR agencies. MS has been sending false "studies" all over the place for years. MS makes backroom deals the same way broadband monopolists do. Do you really think it's below them to spread propaganda on forums and attempt to stifle dissent?
When someone posts that Vista's DRM runs continuously and uses extra CPU cycles (a fact!) and this is Dugg down by about 10 people, you should wonder if it's just out of ignorance, or if it's MS fanboys and shills doing it. They are desperate from having the FACTS about Vista's DRM (AKA Trusted Computing) reach the public. If the public knew those facts, I doubt they would be very eager to "upgrade." - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7You're a fruitcake.
(P.S. This message is not sponsored by Microsoft) - spooq, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4We have something in common. I now want to castrate you as well.
- naio21, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Schestofartz: did you intend to show Linux's copy-and-paste capabilities with this post?
Moron.
- finite, on 10/12/2007, -25/+29Congratulations, that was without a doubt the lengthiest digg comment I've ever dugg up. Thank you for posting!
- rubberpants, on 10/12/2007, -31/+9Microsoft is pure evil. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.
- wyattearp, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4I don't know about Microsoft being evil, but I've got this bridge my dear old granny gave me in her will ...
- Caiman, on 10/12/2007, -9/+31^^Oh Noes, Microsoft am teh evil. They is attackings me personally. Arghhh.
WTF? - 8086ed, on 10/12/2007, -15/+33Microsoft really DOES need to hire an expert on standards, but to educate their project managers and the entire IE team.
- uggidi, on 10/12/2007, -20/+12I think I like IE7 better than FF2
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -11/+20I like how you got dugg down for telling the truth, makes me ashamed to be on Vista right now. IE has horrible support for web standards, ask any web developer about the headaches we get while making pages for IE. And no, IE7 isn't much better either.
/waits for MS apologists to digg me down. - uggidi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I liked FF compared to IE6, but now I feel IE7 is good enough. I do not know from a developer's side, but as a user I like it. I don't know the internal politics, but since MS is awake now, it will try hard not to sleep. The prolem with FF is it takes a lot of time to load. Anyways, FF vs IE is an entirely different thread!
- drjones78, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Well, with Firefox 3.. Firefox will pass the Acid test.
Strange how the most dominant browser on the market (made by a corperation with billions of dollars and armies of programmers0 will also be the one with the most shortcomings and lack of standards support. Opera, Firefox (and I beleive safari) will both be 100% standards compliant - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I'll be honest, I haven't had any problems with IE7 rendering pages I've worked on (with IE6 there were dozens). Then again, I'm not making horrendously complex layouts and using niche functions - I expect there's more room for error with those things.
- VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -16/+0well i use ie 7 and it plays my games fine, and things like google and yahoo only take a few seconds to load, i never tried fire fox tho but i imagine ie 7 is better because its made by Microsoft and they make Windows and it'll probably be better on Vista too!.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Vistababy, I hope you get hit by a bus.
- Petronski, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4WikiFUD!
- Nanite, on 10/12/2007, -17/+9I've experienced this first hand. On engadget.com last year just before the Zune was released, every Zune related article was filled with comments like, "Me and all of my friends can't wait! Everyone wants one! It's the best ever!" All very eerily similar. It was very obviously one person with many accounts spamming the comments with MS astroturf. I called them on it and their response was "why do you care how we make our money?" not denying it one bit. This kind of thing is pretty disgusting, I don't see how anyone could lie for a living, but hey, that's what defense lawyers do right? Anyway, now that the Zune has fallen on it's face, I think the 'groundswell' support for it has been uncovered for what it was, online con-games, perpetrated by the largest company on earth.
- krellor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"Largest company on earth". Bwahahaha. Not hardly.
Ten largest countries in the world: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12085872/ No microsoft here.
It's just more fun to hate on a company you perceive to be a Goliath. Besides, the crap that MS has pulled pales compared to Sonys all I want for xmas is a psp site. That was pure crap. - keije, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6How is any of that relevant? You experienced "this", what is "this", it's for people like you that RTFA acronym was invented, none of the stuff you mentioned are what is happening here. MS has many flaws, there is no need to make up more.
- stapler123, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2 I don't think thats quite what this article is about.
But, I have to say I was one of the people excited about the zune before it's launch. Many of my friends were too. When we all found out the neat parts were fundamentally broken that went away.
I just ask that people be carefull in calling anybody with a not hatefull view of microsoft a shill. - Frost9999, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@Nanite - You actually think Microsoft is the largest company on Earth? It's not even in the top 100:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2006/full_list/ - RedLion, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3"All I want for xmas is an OOXML document"
- VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -12/+3Oh come on, Like Microsoft would ever be that dishonest, they're a frigging multi-billion dollar software company that defends ~90% of the world's OS market! Why would they need to lie to stay on top?
- Nanite, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Let me rephrase that last part, seeing as that's what everyone is so uptight about:
'Anyway, now that the Zune has fallen on it's face, I think the 'groundswell' support for it has been uncovered for what it was, online con-games, perpetrated by the largest SOFTWARE company on earth.'
The article itself doesn't mention this, but most of the posts here revolve around MS's astroturfing tactics, which I am convinced happen way more often than any of you realize. - finite, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Microsoft is obviously not the largest company in the world, but they are the most influential software company having their software on most of the world's PCs and Bill Gates has at many times been the richest man in the world by various measures.
Past examples of Microsoft shilling are very much relevant here, even though Rick Jelliffe is technically not a shill if he's honest about who's paying him. Note that Rick doesn't say if Microsoft told him it was OK to blog about it.
You've got to smile thinking about what the person at Microsoft who offered him the job is thinking reading the comments on his blog today. To use Rob Weir's newly coined word, it brings me a sense of great sperandomiseria. - VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -9/+0You don't have to tell me, I know Microsoft is honest, if they weren't 100% honest how would they be on top? and how would Vista be so good? Don't you know how buisness works? You need to be totally honest with ppl to get to the top and stay there, you cant lie to ppl and expect them to believe you. What big company has ever succeeded by lying too people for money?
- RedLion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5VistaBaby: oh please, i doubt you really trust in the things you are saying. the fact that you registered just not long ago, the fact that you choose that nick and also immediately choose that avatar (usually people choose their avatars days after registering) just make me think that maybe you're one of the microsoft haters that tries to disguise itself as a fanboy. quit this, please.
- Phearce, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Astroturfing is bad enough in the real world, but has serious implications on the web since it's much more difficult to determine a person (or web site's) sincerity. The point here is that Microsoft is (remarkably) doing something somewhat the opposite of astroturfing -- they're hiring an expert to weigh in on a matter. On Wikipedia no less. Granted, they're going to seek out an expert that's sympathetic to their side of the issue, but wouldn't you do the same? Plus, they didn't require a non-disclosure agreement -- that indicates they didn't feel they had anything to hide.
- krellor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"Largest company on earth". Bwahahaha. Not hardly.
- Krymore, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1Bill Gates made a multi billion dollar empire off of exploiting the stupid. Why do you need to worry about some Microsoft rep planting positive comments about a product? Is it going to force you to buy it just because "everyone else" thinks it's good? Only idiots are going to throw away their money because of advertising like that and people that stupid only exist so the rest of us can make money anyway.
- Kolour, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2If enough idiots start buying there crap, it will kill the competition, then they can start vendor-locking you into there products and then they can start cashing in. MS Windows anyone?
There should be a law against this imho. - VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4i guess i'm just an idiot then, i'm buying Windows Vista Ultimate the day it comes out. I was saving up for a new laptop, but that can wait. and yes the positive comments do make me feel better about Vista. If its pleasing these journalists and bloggers then it probably really is good. But I guess I'll see for myself on Jan 30th!! VISTA HERE I COME WOOOOOO
- finite, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7If they *start* buying?!!! Are you from the past?
You do realize MS Office is by far the #1 Office suite, and file format lockin is the first reason most novices can think of for why they can't switch, right? - machinder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Really, "VistaBaby", you're excited about buying Vista? I'm surprised, I kinda got that maybe you were on the fence a bit. Of course, you're reading all of those comments with an open mind, of course?
Seriously: I was all set to buy Vista, since I'd been thinking of moving to MCE 2005 for a while now until I heard that support for the Theatrix 550 chip doesn't exist yet. Pretty darn popular chip, guys. In a lot of cards ... - kavaliro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@VistaBaby:
Yep. You're an idiot.
That, or someone employed by Microsoft to spam Digg. - VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -11/+0yea i'm excited haven't you seen it? the windows have see-thru titles, its so cool, and its got security too so i dont need a firewall anymore since it blocks popups. What other os can do that/?
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10"VistaBaby" is so excited about paying for Vista he logged on today to create his account and comment on this important subject!
http://digg.com/users/VistaBaby/news/dugg
Bill? - VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -10/+0Yea thats what i use, its really good you should try it!
- VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -10/+0Well i just read about digg so i thought i'd join in and see what it was about. so far its cool, alot of smart ppl.
- finite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Yep. You're an idiot. That, or someone employed by Microsoft to spam Digg."
I'd say VistaBaby might be both, except some of the comments are so over the top that I suspect they actually might be an anti-MS troll trying to satirize the shills. That, or a shill who just wants us to think they're too extreme to be a real shill... - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1[quote]Why do you need to worry about some Microsoft rep planting positive comments about a product? Is it going to force you to buy it just because "everyone else" thinks it's good?[/quote]
No, it's going to force me to buy it because all these idiots are going to buy it and maintain it as a standard. Windows control of the market is the same as if a political party had control over the government. For MOST people, not even just the idiots, we have no choice but to use Microsoft products and products designed for Windows.
When was the last time you were in an office? I mean, unless you're talking about Hollywood, all you're going to find in the typical office is Windows PCs. Do realize that to work in such a place you must know Windows and Windows apps? So what happens when they all upgrade to Vista? That's right, you will HAVE TO as well.
- Kolour, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2If enough idiots start buying there crap, it will kill the competition, then they can start vendor-locking you into there products and then they can start cashing in. MS Windows anyone?
- radiofrequency, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5This explains the fawning overtone of Bill Gates' bio on the site. Bought and paid for...
- CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3And I expect checked, at least daily, for "variations".
- finite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't know if you're joking, but in fact there is no mention here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#Philanthropy
... of any of the stuff here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_and_Melinda_Gates_Foundation#Criticisms
(And imho both sections should probably mention that he gets avoid paying taxes while using his (and buffet's) fortunes to continue buying up companies all over the world, on the grounds that the profits will eventually be used for "philanthropy" by some perverse definition of the term. Misanthropy is more like it.)
I admit I am pulling a dick "Rick Jelliffe" move by pointing this out while not fixing it myself. I don't really care enough, though.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Astroturfing, as this is called, doesn't get me upset when it comes to wikipedia because it's open and pretty unbiased. I much prefer that than Microsoft astroturfing a "People For Open Standards" group which spews out Microsoft propaganda with no rebuttal. With wikipedia, Microsoft can propagandize as much as they want, their propaganda will be edited to the point where it's tame and facts of the opposing side will be presented and the reader can best judge for him/herself what the truth is. I see the agribusiness (Monsanto et al) using Wikipedia nowadays and I welcome this new form of astroturfing because they will never win this battle. I have followed them for awhile, they used to fund astroturfing groups and sue people vie underhanded means to silence freedom of speech and information. Wikipedia keeps them in check. They are taking the bait, thinking they can monopolize information in this new medium but they are just giving Wikipedia more attention, which is exactly what they don't want. Wikipedia stands for truth, they don't like the truth. I have RSS feeds for wikipedia entries, monitoring the industry. As soon as they spew forth their propaganda, my RSS alerts alert me and I make sure to edit it to tame it down, put in rebuttals with links and references. They spend millions to astroturf on Wikipedia and it takes me 5 minutes to neutralize their agenda.
I think we should all welcome companies giving credence to Wikipedia, just make sure we keep them in check. - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5What worries me is not that MS would hire someone openly (which is a very good thing to do IMHO) to fix the entry on _their_ specification, the worry is that MS would hire someone to alter _someone_else's_ specification entry.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Did anyone actually bother to read the article? There was stuff in the OOXML article that was untrue, so Microsoft hired someone to clean it up.
Example:
"Just scanning quickly the Wikipedia entry for OOXML, I see one example straight away: The OOXML specification requires conforming implementations to accept and understand various legacy office applications . But the conformance section to the ISO standard (which is only about page four) specifies conformance in terms of being able to accept the grammar, use the standard semantics for the bits you implement, and document where you do something different. The bits you don’t implement are no-one’s business. So that entry is simply wrong. The same myth comes up in the form “You have to implement all 6000 pages or Microsoft will sue you.” Are we idiots?"- kernelhappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I personally think they did the right thing given the circumstances. If they edited the article directly everyone would have screamed, if they hired someone outside to make the edits directed by them and got caught, everyone would have had a cow. Instead they took the high road and recruited the help of someone who is knowledgeable and respected and is known to have enough integrity to remove the misinformation and bias from the article. To me this says Microsoft firmly believes in their product and is not resorting to underhanded methods to push it. This is a good thing for wikipedia too.
The only problem I see is that it sets a precedent where other companies are probably going to start doing this and eventually we'll see many wikipedia "auditors" who operate much in the same way political lobbyists do, that is to say they go where the money is. - spraguep, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2yes
- kernelhappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I personally think they did the right thing given the circumstances. If they edited the article directly everyone would have screamed, if they hired someone outside to make the edits directed by them and got caught, everyone would have had a cow. Instead they took the high road and recruited the help of someone who is knowledgeable and respected and is known to have enough integrity to remove the misinformation and bias from the article. To me this says Microsoft firmly believes in their product and is not resorting to underhanded methods to push it. This is a good thing for wikipedia too.
- testcase, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Wow, Microsoft was actually getting a fair hearing on this page until two things happened to spoil the run;
--- schestowitz went insane and did the longest tirade comment dump in the history of Digg and
--- VistaBaby, Microsoft Employee # 8907987 created an account so they could astroturf us with nauseatingly saccharine paid announcements about IE7 and Vista
I can log off now, satisfied I've got my money's worth. I feel like I've just come back from a day at the zoo.- VistaBaby, on 10/12/2007, -14/+0You don't need to be a Microsoft employee to see how Windows Vista Ultimate can simplify your life in ways you cannot even imagine. There is more then you might think under the stunning new Aero Glass interface such as a completely reworked network stack that was redesigned from the ground up to be more secure and robust then any previous version of Windows. Also DirectX 10 will revolutionize gaming in more ways then I care to note here, And if you're using any previous version of Windows then you will be missing out on the biggest thing to happen to gaming since the NES. Oh, and good luck speeding up Windows XP with a USB 2.0 flash drive using Windows ReadyBoost! Sure you can stay with Windows XP for a few months, but eventually you'll come around when you see everyone else enjoying DirectX 10 and the new Aero Glass interface while you limp along with a plain old blue XP theme and DirectX 9.0c. So don't be left behind with outdated technology holding back your potential, Buy Windows Vista Ultimate™ on January 30th and you'll see what I mean!
- testcase, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2VistaBaby:
This is shameless and disgraceful. I think Kevin and the gang need to think about creating a way of hosing out obvious shills like you as soon as you're detected - digging you down doesn't quite do it.
Oh, PS - you forgot some of your ™s. - jmlane, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Okay, I just had to register simply to respond to VistaBaby's comment.
I hope it is painfully obvious to everyone that this user is biased towards Microsoft's new products, if not being paid to advertise for MS on Digg.
First of all, Vista won't be much of an improvement over XP, I hate to break it to you. Graphics really don't make or break an operating system, so all that new flash in the Vista GUI that MS invested so much in, is really just embellishment on a recycled XP core. They didn't even bother to try coming up with an innovative or new GUI and desktop management system, which might have made paying for an upgrade to Vista a more worthwhile expense.
DX10 is a joke, and a bad one at that. The fact that countless gamers will upgrade to Vista blindly and perhaps even grudgingly, solely for DX10 compatibility for new games, if a farce that I am surprised more people haven't spoken out against. Consumers in general are being forced into a monopoly, because in general the public won't stand up for fair use, open standards, and healthy competition in the software market pertaining to operating systems and gaming. Linux users have the right idea, but it isn't until PC gamers stop accepting tripe from the game producers (boring gameplay coupled with focus on graphics to try and compensate, but this is another story...), force the game producers to demand a fairer API to develop games (DirectX needs to be reevaluated on many issues, not only OS compatibility). If MS doesn't oblige the game makers, those studios may turn to using cheaper alternatives.
My views on this may not be completely accurate, so I'd invite anyone seeing fault in it to comment, but I think we as consumers really need to start thinking more about what level of product quality and durability we are receiving for our hard-earned dollars. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3@VistaBaby
I honestly became nauseous when I read your comment, I can't believe this ***** is being spun on here. I've seen some shills on digg but you sir (bot?) take the cake for making it glaringly obvious. It is people like you that are going to make me stop coming here. Please keep this dribble off of digg. Oh, and I will use whatever OS I damn well feel like, tough luck if it's a non-Microsoft one. As for Vista? I wouldn't even bother pirating that crap after my "experience" with RTM.
Oh, and welcome to my blocklist, you'll like it there. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Personally I think it's rather clear that some regular Digg user has created this VistaBaby account to inject some irony into this digg. It's way too overt to be anything but some humour ;)
VistaBaby, for the sake of all the people above who are having heart attacks right now, expose yourself... - cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4jmlane,
" My views on this may not be completely accurate, so I'd invite anyone seeing fault in it to comment... "
Okay, with all due respect, you are working with incomplete information. I will try to not go all Vistababy on you though.
Vista is an improvement over XP, the graphics engine is only part of the changes made to bring it to market.
You think it is based on a "recycled XP core", but you should be aware that it was changed to be based on the
more solid core of Windows 2003 Server about mid-way thru the Longhorn project, which itself was the result of a significant overhaul of the NT core to address many of the security concerns (and complaints) from MS business partners who make up the real souce of most of the companies revenue. Along the way, they also decided to overhaul the core components and services of the OS, both to make them more secure, and to provide much needed updates in functionality to address existing and future hardware needs.
A lot of people seem to have gotten bent out of shape over Directx10 only being available on Vista and beyond, thinking it is a deliberate attempt by MS to lock out their previous OSes. But that is also working with incomplete info; much of the changes described above that affect the way Vista works, that also enable support for the ideas behind DX10, would not be possible on XP or earlier, simply because XP was not designed with sending the bulk of the graphical processing thru a GPU. The effort to make such a change on an OS that was already starting to show its age was not worth as much as being able to create a fresh design on a more stable framework.
Keep in mind that DX10 is not just a MS solution, the graphics makers (led by Nvidia and ATI) had to see that such a technological change also makes sense, not just for Windows games, but for graphical rendering as a whole. If you think DirectX10 is just for games, or that other OSes will not be able to take advantage of the same capabilities in the underlying hardware, then you underestimate all the companies working with MS to bring this about. You may well see some of the technology (that doesn't require the underlying OS being capable of 3D rendering) show up in other places; and DX10 supporting cards may also find use on other OSes that are capable of 3D rendering. - Darcy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Wow, jmlane you're so well informed on vista. I'd love to read a review from you after you have actually used it, or at least done a few minutes research from somewhere other than the pro linux/apple FUD spreading bloggers.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1[quote]DX10, would not be possible on XP or earlier, simply because XP was not designed with sending the bulk of the graphical processing thru a GPU.[/quote]
*****. A *single* 3D app in XP can use as much "graphical processing" as it wants. You're basically saying that unless we use Vista, we can't use DX10 hardware, and that's just not true. DX10 hardware will even work in Macs. Do you even understand the difference between DX and D3D and OpenGL?
As a matter of fact, if game devs weren't such script kiddies, unlike the few who develop engines from scratch like John Carmack, they could use OpenGL & DX10 hardware in XP and their games could be easily ported to Macs, the Wii & PS3, and maybe even Linux. OpenGL is cross-platform AND works with DX10, D3D10 is a trap.
- wahone, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Just don't think articles should be edited they should stand as they are flaws and all
- AmpalayaNut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Paying someone to correct "errors" in Wiki just does not seem right. I thought this article perhaps explained Wiki's position best:
http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007012401426NWMSSW
> "Microsoft landed in the Wikipedia doghouse after it offered to pay a blogger to change
> technical articles on the community-produced encyclopedia site.
>
> "Although Wikipedia is known as the encyclopedia that anyone can tweak, founder Jimmy
> Wales and his cadre of volunteer editors, writers and moderators have blocked public-
> relations firms, campaign workers and anyone else perceived as having a conflict of
> interest from posting entries. So paying for Wikipedia copy is a definite no-no..."
IMHO, Microsoft's action is similar to a sports team paying an umpire additional to ensure a fair game.
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