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125 Comments
- OBKenobi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+102Summary of responses:
Mozilla: *YAWN*
Microsoft: *YAWN*
Opera: "Why didn't anyone ask us?" - MikeOSX, on 10/11/2007, -10/+86Agreed...I couldn't bear to look at ads ever again. Firefox has spoiled me.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -11/+75I have to say the BIGGEST downside of Safari, and the ONLY reason I don't use it, is NO PLUGINS. Firefox has about a gajillion plugins for it made by 3rd parties, with a wonderful api, etcetc.
Safari while still pretty secure, very fast, and pretty on my eyes just cannot take over as my #1 until I can load firefox plugins on it. (maybe a wrapper?)
Do that, and we will seriously talk about dominance. (also please let me open webpages by url completion using cntl-enter or apple-enter) - fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -12/+42To summarise,
- Mozilla's response was to pat themselves on the back and talk about how great their cause and how noble their goals. And and afterthought about hoping Apple will use open standards.
- Microsoft's response was their desktop marketshare makes it a smart move, and they think IE7 is better. - mvent2, on 10/11/2007, -2/+30"even though according to cnet mozilla firefox has 21 times more security holes than IE"
You owe me a new keyboard and cup of coffee. But thanks for the laugh. :) - Ryosen, on 10/11/2007, -2/+26Lightspeed, dear, sweet, horribly misguided lightspeed. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Firefox has been nothing but lightning fast for me when loading graphics. It has less security problems than IE - and that is according to CERN, a much more reputable source of security-related analysis than CNet. The memory "leaks" are largely a combination of FUD and a lack of understanding on the part of people who are not professional software developers on just how memory management in applications work. Yes, Firefox uses a lot of memory, as it was designed to do. Yes, the application architecture of Firefox (what allows the hundreds if not thousands of plug-ins to work) requires more memory than your precious IE. And, yes, that does require a different memory management scheme than what you erroneously assume to be proper. Oh, and the Mozilla Foundation is hardly an "unreputable ***** no name company", having existed for almost ten years but having a legacy that predates IE.
But if you are including among your list of complaints the fact that you don't hear a little "clicky" noise when you click on a link, then you're undermining the rest of your arguments and basically just announcing to everyone here that you are a retard.
Crawl back under your rock, little troll, you won't find any support here. - indyGuy, on 10/11/2007, -7/+28Judging by the security issues found so far in Safari for Win, I wouldn't feel threatened either.
- praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -2/+23The clicking sounds actually annoy me...I know when I've clicked a link, damnit!
- mvent2, on 10/11/2007, -4/+23"no clicking sound when you click links"
OMG that is SUCH an unbearable loss, how will my headphones get any exercise? :(
Stop trolling because you feel bad about making the wrong choice with the InfErior browser. - Shaggy3, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21Its so sad IE has the biggest market share..
All those people that have no idea Firefox even exists. - nakile, on 10/11/2007, -6/+24To sum up Microsoft's response:
"Other browsers are out on the web, but IE 7 is the best. USE IE 7! USE IT!" - danboarder, on 10/11/2007, -12/+25"the BIGGEST downside of Safari, and the ONLY reason I don't use it, is NO PLUGINS."
Except that Safari HAS PLUGINS. For example, see essential plugins like adblockers, gestures, etc at http://pimpmysafari.com/ - kethraal, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14"But since I'm not a web dev I really have no interest in using it on my PCs at all. But nice to see Apple supporting Windows all the same."
Thank you. I thought I was the only one with that view :-D
Safari on the Mac is still quite competent -- it only lacks extensions (but for non-power users, that's not an issue). It's fast and standards-oriented -- (it's already got some nice CSS3 stuff, and its CSS2 support is amazing.)
The Mac beta is actually pretty kick ass, as far as betas go. Sometime it beachballs on launch... for about a second and a half -- but that's about it. That problem will probably (I hope) be fixed by the time that Safari 3.0 is final.
Windows doesn't seem to be Apple's best platform. Safari 3.0 for Windows has a couple serious bugs (disappearing text, memory leaks, and security holes) that will need to be fixed for it to compete against Firefox on Windows. The security situation might not be as easy on Windows (due to the fact that Safari can't use Mac OS X features), but if the first two are fixed, it should at least have a chance. - colonelpanic, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18uhhh...safari is free.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18Safari has always blown ass. I'm sticking with Firefox, theres no reason to switch.
- corporalclegg24, on 10/11/2007, -5/+16no actually, he did it mostly so the iphone can be developed on Windows too.
- theratster, on 10/11/2007, -6/+15Beta is no excuse. Firefox and IE7 didn't have this kind of security or stability issues Safari has right now. And as a company that prides itself on being immune to viruses and issues, this is unacceptable.
- LegendOfLink, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11For all you "Uh Beta?" people:
PC Guy: Hi Mac, did you have a fun time last night?
Mac Guy: I don't feel so good.
PC Guy: I told you to be careful, it's a scary world out there.
Mac Guy: It's not my fault, I wasn't ready. Besides, if we went to my bar, I'd be good to go right now.
PC Guy: Mac, stop being a pussy and suck it up. You never see me complaining. - aburd, on 10/11/2007, -22/+31That is the first time I have ever seen anyone say that Safari is "pretty on the eyes". It's kind of ugly.
- OBKenobi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Lightspeed = Steve Ballmer.
- mvent2, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10"thanks for ignoring my other points, really shows firefox is better when you have no rebuttal to the security holes and memory leakages."
Hm? OK then...
Slow-loading pictures? Bullcrap. At least Firefox plays GIFs at the right speed. Loading pictures is always extremely fast because they use existing open-source libraries like libpng.
More security holes than IE? Wrong again. In fact, IE has more serious unpatched flaws than Firefox.
Huge memory hog? Uses less memory than IE7.
No clicking sound? Thats actually a GOOD thing to many people.
No-name company? Mozilla is talked about in tech news ALL THE TIME. Their name has a longer legacy than IE. It really is sad how this "no-name company" can make a far better browser than the largest software company in the world, don't you think?
I give you a C- for effort and D- for substance. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -8/+16Safari was a godsend when OSX had nothing else but a half-ass version of IE that Microsoft had long since given up on.
But since I'm not a web dev I really have no interest in using it on my PCs at all. But nice to see Apple supporting Windows all the same. - snapcase, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11"and we think that Internet Explorer 7 is the best available."
Ain't delusions grand? - ninj3, on 10/11/2007, -0/+74 parent posts in a row? Please try planning your comment a bit before posting. Don't duplicate points.
And it's annoying having to click the digg or bury button 4 times for what is basically one post. - Spr0k3t, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9@lightspeed: "answer this question asswipe, did a stupid forum post persuade your dumb ass to get firefox? if so, rofl, you use something based on someone elses *****"
No, Firefox came with my distro as the default browser. I use Konq and Epiphany. The tools I've found in Firefox are invaluable though. Greasemonkey just kicks ass not to mention Adblock Plus. - Shaggy3, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Yeah i never had much trouble with Firefox, IE was always an annoyance.
I now use Camino because of Keychain compatibility.
But if Internet Explorer works for you, have fun... - Spr0k3t, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8@lightspeed
Firefox - ninj3, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8"answer this question asswipe, did a stupid forum post persuade your dumb ass to get firefox? if so, rofl, you use something based on someone elses *****"
Oh? So you would prefer to take the advice of a company who would obviously recommend its own product than advice from another user? Ok then whatever works for you. But please excuse me if I prefer the peer-reviewed approach.
Personally, I started using it after randomly stumbling upon it many years ago on a demo disk from some magazine. Love at first sight. Now I have no idea about whether or not security is better or worse. Ask a real expert for that. All I know is the tabs, add-ons, customisation, themes, everything about Firefox made me love it. When hundreds of users say on a forum, "this browser is t3h *****", I might be inclined to believe them over Microsoft saying, "IE is the best! Give us all your money now!"
Shaggy3, I have to agree 100% with you. People don't know there are alternatives because IE is shoved so far down their throat it threatens to rupture their spleen (heehee spleen).
People who are used to IE (and aren't all that competent with PCs) are very difficult to convince to even try Fx. I attribute it to fear of the unknown. So now I've taken to forcing it onto my friends' computers (family already converted :D) and battering them with a keyboard until they give it a try. You may disagree with my methods but boy does it work. It takes a maximum of 2 days for them to become completely converted to Fx with my encouragement. And that's just leaving them to explore on their own. After I teach them about customising, add-ons, themes etc. there's just no going back.
Phew what an essay. But it's only because I love Fx so :)
lightspeed, I can only assume you're about, what, 14 years old? And just going through that angsty period of your life and you feel left out because Mummy and Daddy have IE installed on your family PC :(
So I'll let you off for your silly comments for now. I hope that when you grow up and get your own shiny new PC you might see the light that is Firefox and come to conclude exactly what we all have concluded. - gattone, on 10/11/2007, -5/+10^^^ (reply for sharpie05) ^^^
I've made the fastest, the most secure, and the most useful browser for Windows.
But for the moment it's in Beta so don't complain because it loads in 20 seconds, has a dozen of security bugs, and crashes every 5 minutes. - Spr0k3t, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7@lightspeed
WTF are you smoking... can I have some? Can you actually pinpoint those security holes or are you basing your knowledge off of a news story from a few months back (shortly after the release of IE7)? The only security holes I know of are already patched or closed and being reworked in the nightly builds. - bjornski, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7If you want to access half of the software on your iPhone, you will need Safari.
THAT is what they're counting on. - markthegoth, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Im pretty concerned that we are going to see a quicktime/itunes/safari bundle. tbh
- MioTheGreat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4"1. It's a BETA. What part of that word do you not understand?"
They claimed that it was designed to be secure from day 1. They also claimed that it was faster than FF and IE on Windows. Both claims have been shown to be horribly horribly wrong. - clyde2801, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5I'm surprised Microsoft couldn't get hypno-toad to make their announcement.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Am I the only one who finds it ironic that a browser that can apparently follow _web_ standards so well can't find the Windows UX standards if someone printed out the document, rolled it up, and smacked the developers across the face with it?
- clpo13, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Safari is all right...but I don't want to have to spend hours trying to figure out why my browser has no text. Apple should know better than to think every computer happens to have the right fonts needed to work the browser. Safari for Windows isn't even worthy of the Web 2.0 beta badge. It's alpha at best. Even IE is better.
And to anyone saying we use Firefox because someone told us to (*cough* lightspeed): grow up. Do you honestly think no one thought to compare their browsers first? I hated Firefox when it first came out. But once I used it more, I found it was much better. Quicker to load, nicer to look at, not to mention the plugins and tabs. Of course, that was back when IE was still at version 6. If Firefox came out today, I'd probably stick with IE7. Maybe. - seasleepy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@corporalclegg24 (#7179245) said: "no actually, he did it mostly so the iphone can be developed on Windows too."
I keep seeing tons of people say this as if it was a fact. I don't doubt that the iPhone announcement was a big factor in their deciding to release it for Windows, but I'm not really getting where the whole "It's only for developers, duh" is coming from.
Everything I've seen about it so far doesn't indicate that it's aimed just for developers. The actual "Safari for Windows" announcement was prefaced by talk of wanting to increase Safari's market share, and followed by talk about how fast it is and how it's the best, most secure browser out there, and talk of how iTunes gets twice as many downloads a day as Firefox, and so on. The apple.com/safari site has only a small "Web Developers" button at the bottom of the page, and nothing else on that page is aimed at developers. It says "public beta" but there's nothing indicating that it's not for the average user (and a lot indicating that it is). - ninj3, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@colonelpanic
He never said it wasn't free. He was saying there are better alternatives for the same, free, price. - fahrvergnuugen, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4"also please let me open webpages by url completion using cntl-enter or apple-enter"
Safari has URL completion. Type the domain name (such as 'google') and hit enter. - colonelpanic, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7I'll be honest. On my Mac I use camino. I've been finding quirks in firefox i don't like, mainly including the occasional "I'm sorry, firefox is already running, you can't open another instance of it". I go into task manager and there sits firefox, eating my cpu and rubbing its belly (while no windows are open). Haven't had many issues on the pc with safari. Only one, and thats logging onto the web access of an exchange server.
- ninj3, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5I think even Steve Ballmer has more sense than this guy. At least he can do his job, badly to us, but good for MS.
And ff for ff? What's that? Free Food for Final Fantasy?
The abbreviation for Firefox is Fx, silly child. - LegendOfLink, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@kethrall
I'm not trying to be a troll here, but there's a lot of PC users who are just plain sick and tired of the Apple fanboys. Honestly, most people on Digg will probably agree with you that it's nice to have another alternative browser; however, when there's bad press regarding something that Lord Jobs has hyped to death, it's inevitable that some folks will be a little smug about it. - colonelpanic, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5woops, the firefox reference was on my pc.
- bjornski, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I've just gotta ignore this lightspeed joker.
I mean really....
I can tell school is out. - boredaghast, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4http://nightly.webkit.org
it has to be a push for web standards and further development of their product including the iphone. - coolbru, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Any web designer should certainly WANT to use Safari simply because their pages will look better in it - it has by far the highest quality rendering, the best CSS3 and SVG support and the tightest W3C compliance. It's not without its quirks (current release is dogged by memory leaks), but it's way faster than Firefox, at least on OS X. FF is a great developer's browser, but Safari is a great user's browser. Safari 3 is indeed horribly buggy, but it will get better. One big advantage of beta releases - they expire - so nobody will have to provide long-term support/hacks for buggy releases, like IE6.
With Drosera and the inspector palette in the mix along with SafariTidy, SafariStand, SafariSource and others, you can get much of the functionality of FireBug (which totally rocks), Web Developer, tidy and venkman plugins in Safari. - prammy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Safari on the Mac has always been a bit moody for me. It would crash every now and then. On the Mac I ended up using Camino more anyways.
Atm, I am on Firefox under Linux and have not booted back into Windows to test out Safari on Windows. - CarzorStelatis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Microsoft's statement is (for once) partly true. Although IE7 probably isn't the best available (although it is only missing a few features), it is 100x better than the slow, crashy, security-flawed POS Apple released the other day. Worst. Browser. Ever.
- lonniebiz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I will stick with Firefox. The only thing I don't like about Firefox is Google's financial influence. I fear that firefox will be corrupted by Google's money one day.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Obviously, Opera is being ignore in all this 'safari for windows' thing, but I think they're ok with the mobile+wii market. If you ask at the right people, things will look completely different for Opera.
/User waiting for the mobile version of Firefox. -
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