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52 Comments
- tensvb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29Firefox is to slow to run smoothly on this laptop. They had to add 128 MB of RAM only to make run this browser. Other applications run just fine. I don't understand why they didn't choose Opera instead, Opera runs on devices with a few MB of RAM.
- quiris, on 10/12/2007, -19/+46Firefox? Who cares…
- CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -5/+27It doesn't always have to be a browser war. Opera is a perfectly fine browser for the minimalist who is still concerned about security.
- utdrew182, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20And opera is for minimalist why?
- worbd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Simple: Ideology over practicalities.
And that's dangerous. Having a conviction is fine, but one has to be realistic too. This was a case of shooting themselves in the foot because they were all ideology, but oh well. - FaT32, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Default OLPC browser uses Mozilla engine. But it's not Firefox, so no extensions for it...
- idntunknwn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13http://www.xkcd.net/c198.html
Why is Opera good for minimalist applications? They've managed to get Opera to run on devices with only a few MB of memory. How is that not minimalist? - freff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I think he's trying to say that Opera doesn't support extensions like firefox. Personally, I've never missed them as Opera has integrated all the features that I need and then some, without worrying about 3rd party extensions or wasted resources. That's just me though, and firefox is a really decent browser as well.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12This is not surprising. About a year ago, my computer at home died and I needed internet access fast. I dug up my old Pentium 200 MHz machine with 32 MB of RAM and Windows 95. I loaded up the copy of Internet Explorer that was on it, it seemed pretty damn slow (even though it's an old version that I installed years ago). I went and downloaded Opera, booted it up, and it was nearly as fast as a multi-GHz machine with a ton of RAM. Sure, Flash pages were still loading really slowly (forget about Java...), but the damn browser was so fast and smooth, it was incredible. Even the default Opera GUI, which has a ton of animations on it, was running silky-smooth without any slowdown.
- ThrasherC, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14That thing is hot. I bet all the gamers on the block will be lining up.
- iOsiris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@slugicide/zaren
When he means not free, he means its proprietary. Its free when we download it as home users, but if somebody wanted to distribute that browser like OLPC, or on mobile phones they pay licensing fees for it. - FyberOptic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I hate how people whine about Opera not being open-source, when this means so little in such an application. Opera has been around longer than Firefox, and yet still managed less security vulnerabilities than Firefox, even before it took off in popularity as it has. Opera also runs much more efficiently. I've always thought it incredibly childish and misinformed how people criticize Opera for such a minimal issue. None of you can make heads or tales of the Firefox source code, either to check it for security vulnerabilities, nor to modify it, so open-source means nothing to 99% of anyone using it. You depend on people you don't know to verify its safety, just as you do with Opera. At least the Opera team has proven that they're very capable developers, and are much more motivated in their company than people working for free at Mozilla Corp., who continually produce buggy and security-flawed software.
So to anyone still whining everytime Opera gets put something, like the Wii, telephones, and now this, and yet still runs as nicely as it does, get over it and realize Firefox isn't the holy grail. - worbd, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13According to a Slashdot comment ....
'Whats interesting, and quite damming in its own way, is that the test systems had to have extra memory included because of the requirements of a certain other browser.'
http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=212576&cid=17300424 - youpidou, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Actually, this is the plain vanilla version of Opera 9.1 released yesterday, with absolutely no modifications to make it run on the device. It just worked on first try!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Can you still power this thing with a crank or foot pedal?
- growler1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6"How self centered we are to care about how smoothly this or that web browser runs when many of the intended recipients of this insipid program do not have food, clean water, power (hand crank lol), etc..."
--I was skeptical at first, too. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized the proponents of OLPC are aiming to get knowledge and self-reliance into the hands of bright and capable youngsters/people.
Think of it this way: you can use computers + internet to find/learn/create damn near anything. The designers of OLPC are hoping that bringing knowledge to the right people will go a lot farther to solving the problems you mentioned than doing it for them with a telethon. (at least it would IMO) - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Opera is not free."
Since when? - sv650touring, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6That's right, people! We should make sure everyone has a bowl of gruel and a cup of potable water before ANYONE improves beyond that point. We should put all of our energy into making sure everyone is up to tmillwee's standards before even thinking about the future.
***** everyone who thinks giving people access to information will be a significant benefit. I ridicule you all! - Quakes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The point is to educate the people. If they have a decent education, they have a chance to outgrow their "developing country" status, and thus improve upon their poor living conditions.
- sardion2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Didn't you know that those people in 3rd world countries are poor, illiterate fools right? Or at least that is what those anti-OLPC people will have you believe. I think a bit of Racism has something to do with this outlook.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Opera is the smartest choice is you need low memory usage, low disk usage and speed. It outperforms any browser, Konqueror being #2 for these criteria.
- Hindu_Wardrobe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That's awesome! Opera is a fine browser, and deserves this positive attention.
And this is coming from a Firefox user! (But I say anything that competes w/IE is awesome.) - CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think I would call it racism. I would definitely call it ignorance, however.
- CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"when many of the intended recipients of this insipid program do not have food, clean water, power"
This has been debunked several times. The countries that have signed up for this have food, clean water and power. They just don't have inexpensively priced computer technology in their educational system to help their children grow up to become more computer literate. Not every third-world country looks like those "save a child" commercials. - motang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What her back of her head?
- el73, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Agreed.. to those who are talking about "what happens if Opera goes out of business... etc.."
It's a browser. You'll lose your bookmarks. How about this? When that day comes, you install Firefox. Until then, use the best software that works?
I think the only open source argument that's valid here is the fact that it doesn't give the OLPC users themselves the chance to see, learn, and understand the software. - CircleFusion, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2in the time it too for you to click reply and type RTFA, you could've answered the question.
"The crank, meant to generate power to run the machine, was part of an early design. It has been replaced with a foot pedal which is still under construction. However, it seems that people somehow got emotionally attached to the hand crank and want it back."
From here - http://people.opera.com/howcome/2006/olpc/ - Celeron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3That chick in the last pic is hot.
- samnetwork, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Free software is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer.
- Macc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You are right, this guy cant be trusted.
- motang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nice work!
- sv650touring, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would just like to add that Firefox may have many more security vulnerabilities than Opera, it has many fewer than IE. Opera's speed is it's other big appeal - even on modest hardware. I think all major browsers are buggy, but the internet is a complicated thing, so obviously no browser can be perfect in all situations you run into on the net.
Also Open Source is great, but plenty of the best software was created with profit as the main motivation. That's just humans for you. - zaren, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10@slugicde:
From www.opera.com:
"It's a fast, fun and easy way to browse the Web. Opera 9 comes loaded with the tools to keep you productive and safe. Try it today, it's absolutely free!"
As I understand it, Opera's been free since they offered public reg codes for it over a year ago. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The people that complain about Opera not being open source are the same people that use Google and Digg.
However, I believe that for the OLPC all software included had to be OSS as a requirement. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Does it work good on this too?
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000EYF72S.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg - FyberOptic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ mitrovarr
One would think that the OLPC people had to have the full support of the Opera team for this to have ever been possible, due to Opera's closed-source nature. And if the device is shipped with this software, I'm quite sure the OLPC people were smart enough to make an agreement which would prevent any later issues with fees. And while this is just my personal opinion, but I'm also fairly certain that the Opera people are respectable enough to never do such a thing, since it would result in quite a negative response and opinion against the company and their products.
The very fact we're seeing it on so many platforms says something, as well. - CornStarch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@utdrew182
I couldn't put it better than freff and idntunknwn did. - dep01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3That dude looks like Joe Pantoliano (Cypher from The Matrix):
Him:
http://people.opera.com/howcome/2006/olpc/img/SH106856-m.JPG
Joe:
http://entimg.msn.com/i/150/Movies/Actors2/Pantoliano_88455708_150x200.jpg - mitrovarr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@FyberOptic
While Opera could sign contracts allowing their software to be used on the OLPC, there's still the problem that their company could go out of business at any time, ending development. Also, new management could refuse to renew contracts later, causing a costly redesign. I'm not saying using Opera would be the worst idea ever, but with Firefox being basically an equivalent alternative, there's no reason not to go with the open-source choice.
Also, everyone is kind of assuming that Opera will let the OLPC use their software for free with no catches. Maybe they won't.
There are other advantages to using OSS; it's easier for the OLPC people to customize and localize, the users of the OLPC can check out the code if they learn to program, they can alter it to suit their needs, etc. Opera is good, and it's cool that it's available for the OLPC, but I think the devs made the right choice on the default browser. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://evden-eve-nakliyat-1.nakliyatrehberi.name
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http://www.iddaatahminleri.gen.tr - kyrre, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Did you ever have a go at Dillo? That thing is blazing fast. Now if it would support Javascript and CSS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dillo - randal2k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Still can't get mine for 100$... pathetic.. no digg, no support. OLPC is a farse.
- clued, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That's truly awesome for a build that wasn't even made to run on such a minimal box. I'd say from just the plug-in required footnoting that I see Firefox pundits always citing on clever How To postings that there are anywhere from 15 to 30 things Opera does built-in that in Firefox requires a plug-in. And I'm not talking about the ones for any rare or exotic needs. Opera can be customized massively by just editing entries in its text based .ini control files. Even Javascript "Bookmarklet" style macros can be added this way in addition to just putting them on a menu bar or panel. Greasemonkey & site-specific scripts are also supported. And though I've yet to find a need that will make me explore it, Opera is also suppose to support Netscape's plug-in standard which makes me wonder if I can't use Firefox's plug-ins with Opera. If Opera went out of business, I would NOT loose my bookmarks. Bookmarks, Contacts & Notes are all stored in text based .ini files that you can read in any text editor. The browser also has many import/export commands which should make it quite easy to get your data into whatever browser ends up hypothetically replacing it. E-mail, newsgroups, and RSS feeds are stored in plain old .mbs mailbox files too. I think if Opera ever did die out, their last act would probably be to make some flavor of the codebase open source so the fanatics could resurrect it.
If Opera ends up tweaking a build specifically for OLPC, it will be a real screamer. Also Opera runs well off a USB thumbdrive. All I had to do was copy the installed folder to the thumbdrive and remove the leading drive letter & colon off of about 20 file path occurrences in the ini files with UltraEdit to make them relative paths. Takes up about 11 megs + cache. If the OLPC will support a cheap old thumbdrive, you could easily run Opera and have tons of room for growth. That would include email which for Firefox requires you to install another 10MB application. Opera would also give these poor users RSS, news, widgets and a rudimentary bit torrent application for the same disk footprint. - muyuu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1You mean Iceweasel?
- mitrovarr, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Not being open-source is a big deal for this application. The fact of the matter is, the company that makes Opera could start charging everyone for it tomorrow, or go bankrupt and cease all development, leaving the OLPC devs out in the cold. Firefox can't become unavailable like that, so it's the safer choice.
Also, they can't modify Opera, so if they want to customize the browser for the platform, they're out of luck. - slugicide, on 10/12/2007, -17/+11The OLPC is about freedom. Opera is not free. tensvb & worbd: do you not understand the point of the enterprise? Open standards and free software are not even comparable, despite what the Opera people say. That being said, Opera is sexy.
- freff, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1http://www.opera.com/free/
[edit] I didn't read iOsiris' post. Feel *free* to digg me down, if you want. - armbar, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2I wouldn't be too surprised if Opera did release a version for that POS. They've ported it to so many different devices, it's ridiculous. http://www.opera.com/products/devices/
Edit: Thanks for screwing up the target reply, digg! This is supposed to be in reply to 2tomato, http://www.digg.com/software/100_PC_OLPC_runs_Opera_browser_smoothly_pix#c4338610 - tmillwee, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1How self centered we are to care about how smoothly this or that web browser runs when many of the intended recipients of this insipid program do not have food, clean water, power (hand crank lol), etc...
Only a society as wasteful as the ours could convince itself that this is an worthy project. Thankfully there is so many examples of our collective idiocy that I cannot single out any one stupid idea to ridicule properly.
TRM -
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