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NSA Admits To Microsoft Vista "Contributions"

theinquirer.net — "According to the Washington Post, the agency which was once so secret that it was jokingly referred to as 'No Such Agency' has admitted making 'unspecified contributions' to Vista. The assistance is at the US taxpayers' expense, although the NSA says it all makes perfect sense." Innocent? Probably. But how can you tell?

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  • wizzerking, on 10/12/2007, -63/+89Just another reason to jump ship and/or never install Vista
    Who knows if there is some NSA Backdoor or Not
    I and my clients have all but moved to Ubuntu, I still have 12 clients thats are waiting for Microsoft to end of life XP Pro,
    as soon as that happens it goodbye to M$Soft and good riddance.
    • lacronicus, on 10/12/2007, -60/+11If the NSA wants something off your computer, its only a matter of time before they get it. matters of legality aside, which in the case of the NSA, they would be, it is likely impossible to stop them getting any information they need. no system is really safe, so dont bother trying to say it is. besides, i have no doubt vista will be successful, if not of its own right, which i see being reasonable, but because it will come loaded on nearly everything in the next few years. quit being a hater.
    • kman004, on 10/12/2007, -28/+130from Washington Post article..

      "The agency said it has helped in the development of the security of Microsoft's new operating system -- the brains of a computer -- to protect it from worms, Trojan horses and other insidious computer attackers."

      "With hundreds of thousands of Defense Department employees using Microsoft's software, the NSA realizes that it's in its own interest to make the product as secure as possible."

      "Other software makers have turned to government agencies for security advice, including Apple, which makes the Mac OS X operating system. "We work with a number of U.S. government agencies on Mac OS X security and collaborated with the NSA on the Mac OS X security configuration guide," said Apple spokesman Anuj Nayar in an e-mail."

      Read the ***** article before you make assumptions. Not everyone is out to get you.
    • HUKI365, on 10/12/2007, -10/+44Apple get's help as well. And there were lines of code from NSA in XP as well.
    • JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -13/+35Exactly. A lot of the brilliant computer security minds of the United States work for the US Government, because their information needs to be as secure as possible. It's not hard to believe the NSA would like an OS that their employees can use (they themselves probably use their own UNIX-based OS) so the information stays as secure as possible. Security gurus get paid much more working for the government than Anti-Virus Company X.
    • lacronicus, on 10/12/2007, -16/+5thats exactly my point. one shouldnt worry about it. the gov is not some big bad thing unless it truly needs to be, in which case, you will not stop it. no sense worrying. but otherwise, its there to make our lives better, and if it does that while giving me a better OS more power to them.
    • shuffle2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17it's funny, because the NSA are supposedly the people that figured out how to hack WEP first, and how to deauth windows clients, and pickup the data packets they spewed forth from being deauthed.
    • dkoon, on 10/12/2007, -17/+1@wizzerking
      go on jump ship to North Korea, there's a NSA Backdoor in America. Oh yeah, thanks for showing us how retarded the Linux fanboys are. =)
    • lacronicus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@shuffle
      id rather they did it than almost anyone else. anybody can crack wep in like, what is it now, 5 minutes? so its not all that secure anyway. besides, as tom clancy once wrote(yeah not the greatest source for tech, but still valid) do you think the govt would allow any encryption it cant already break?
    • halavais, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30The NSA has a long history of "requesting" that large communications companies provide them with backdoors. I would be surprised if the NSA *didn't* request such a backdoor in Vista. That's not paranoia, it's just common sense.

      Note that the NSA sponsored a strong encryption version of Linux. We can be a bit more sanguine about their involvement when the specifics are open to all.
    • arcangelgabriel, on 10/12/2007, -17/+5M$Soft ?? How painfully junior year of you.
    • felderado, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14@JeffH
      "Exactly. A lot of the brilliant computer security minds of the United States work for the US Government, because their information needs to be as secure as possible. It's not hard to believe the NSA would like an OS that their employees can use (they themselves probably use their own UNIX-based OS) so the information stays as secure as possible. Security gurus get paid much more working for the government than Anti-Virus Company X."

      They use Linux.
      http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/
    • GeneralFailure0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21@lacronicus
      Accepting the government's complete control over us and resolving 'not to worry about it' kind of defeats the whole purpose of representative democracy, does it not? Government for the people, not over them.
    • catalysis, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23So does this mean that the NSA will know that I prefer creampie videos to, say, interracial porn?
    • brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18@kman

      wtf do you expect them to say? "Yeah we put in a backdoor so we can access anyones files anywhere in the world any time we want. We're are the NSA. Do you have a problem with that....terrorist?"

      No, they are going to say "We are helping with security."

      So why don't they deny it? Because if (when) hackers find the code, as they did with XP, it's going to be physical proof that they lied. Now they can just say "Yeah, we told you that we were 'helping Microsoft'. This is old news. Nothing to see here. Move along."
    • cmiz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@lacronicus: they can certainly demand keys... but i get the feeling that not even the highly overfunded NSA could break encryption along the lines of the RSA 2048 used to secure microsoft's first gen (and probably the 360 too) xbox hardware.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5Neither the NSA nor any of the other agencies, however, had a special role in the development of the actual Vista operating system, Don Armstrong, a senior pogram manager for Microsoft's Government Security Program.

      "They did not participate in the code development of Vista, they just had input in the security guide," Armstrong said.

      Your tin foil hats are on too tight.
    • jrsims, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19Look, unless it's open source, you never really can call it safe. I personally find it hard to believe that there are no back doors built into proprietary operating systems (particularly consumer OSes like Windows and OS X). If not for national security reasons, then simply for the valuable data that can be mined by studying user habits.

      And I'm tired of people who think this line of thinking is paranoia. HP has written keyboard drivers that phone home without user consent. Canon has built and sold printers that embed their serial numbers into each and every printed page (supposedly, this was to track counterfeiters). AT&T let the NSA hook into their networks in exchange for contracts. And of course, we all know about Sony's rootkits.

      I fully support the notion of making money by selling proprietary software and services. But I think it's in the best interest of humanity that people have ready access to a free, open, and secure OS by default. If the proprietary software you install on this free OS happens to carry certain privacy risks with it, so be it. It's your choice. But when your first and only choice (for many people this is true) is an operating system developed with the primary purpose of making money, I think it's only natural that this operating system will eventually work against you.

      Lets not forget that you do not own your copy of Windows. You purchase a license to use it. Microsoft still owns that bytecode you boot up everyday.

      Think about that for a minute.
    • caseyboyd, on 10/12/2007, -10/+1so you're gonna jump ship to ubuntu? well, to quote you, "who knows if there is some NSA backdoor or not?"

      the nsa was the primary developer of security enhanced linux. so if you use ubuntu, you probably use selinux, and now you have (according to your theory) a possible nsa backdoor.

      when you don't know you're talking about, its pretty easy to be a hypocrite. Now, I hate Windows as much as the next guy, but that's a pretty poor excuse to avoid it when there are so many other good ones.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7[quote]So this is headline FUD even though the article isn't just so you can reach the front page?

      He should of added something about tin foil hats to the title for the full effect.[/quote]

      Do you have trouble reading? This is an exact quote from the article:

      "According to the Washington Post, the agency which was once so secret that it was jokingly referred to as 'No such Agency' has admitted making 'unspecified contributions' to Vista."
    • JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Without source code to audit the operating system, and with the history of confirmed NSA backdoors in windows products, I'll be using OpenBSD and GNU/Linux and I hope many of you do too.

      It's not so much the NSA I'm afraid of, it's more so that some lamer will find these exploits and make a program for script kiddies then before you know it every 14 year old "haxor" ***** that can operate a mouse, the ones that won't leave you alone when you get out of 4th period class for lunch because you have Tux or the Daemon (and because you aren't nerdy like them), on your back will be in ur computerz lookin at ur pornz if you're stupid enough to use proprietary software. =)
    • FatShady, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2@JonForTheWin:
      The is *NO CONFIRMED* history of NSA backdoors in Windows.
      The NSAKEY thing that was in NT was *not* a backdoor.

      Christ, you people really need to get a grip.
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Wow, time to start investing in those tin-foil hats. The market for them is just out of control.
    • CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"Who knows if there is some NSA Backdoor or Not"

      You dropped your tin foil hat. Also, im pretty sure all those saying "just another reason not to install vista!11" aren't actually windows users anyways.
  • ardenr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16This completely explains flag564's comments on Digg... He works for the NSA!

    /Too much credit.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Some Diggers work for government/military contractors. Don't laugh.

      And don't doubt for a moment that Digg isn't being monitored by all sorts of agencies and organizations. Mostly commercial-related stuff, but the spooks are out there.

      Hello spooks. Please do something about the chimp that's hijacked the White House.

      And I would like the $500 billion in tax revenue that he stole returned at some point.
    • williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Google up some of the "projects" that public relations companies run for the U.S. government. Yeah, they do astroturf Digg, and you pay for it. People who do that kind of thing are lower than dirt. They are the same kind of people who will staff concentration camps and torture people. Real worthless pieces of *****.
    • rodgerdodger5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4

      http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rendon_Group
    • JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Hello spooks. Do something about the federal reserve and the 13 or so private families that own and operate it. We've been taken over by Europe. More of your average joes know about this than you'd expect.

      . . your time will come. =)
    • steve3050, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does Flag564 really work for NSA?
    • 3dom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Not that PR people arent scumbags, but comparing them to concentration camp guards is a bit much
    • williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@3dom

      Yeah, PR flacks who sell out to government spooks are worthless hunks of ***** that out to be flushed down a toilet. The whole purpose of propaganda is to make the sheep follow their leaders - a soft form of dictatorship. Anyone participating in that is exactly the sort of weak subhuman who would torture you or put you in a reeducation camp if told to do it. They deserve all the hate that can be poured onto them.
    • forgetfulca, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Have to agree, for the most part. PR by definition means to spin the actual facts into something more palatable to whomever is employing them. Spinning facts, imo, is disgusting. Innocuous things like re-defining a megabyte to be 1,000,000 bytes instead of the industry usage of 1048576, or carefully not mentioning the fact that there are 10x the daily activity in iraq than we hear about.
      What's the difference? the truth. If that doesn't bother you, just ignore this and go back to your pablum.
    • 3dom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1since when have PR men actually killed 6 million jews? obviously they havent, I rest my case. I wouldnt make a point like that unless I think you need to hear it.
      p.s it's sickening you think ordinary every day ***** and injustice can even be compared to what happened in nazi germany
  • postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -16/+6"The NSA is quite good at finding weapons of mass destruction that are not there."

    wow, using the inquirer for you news source. stupid tinfoil hats.

    dugg down for being paranoid.


    personally screw vista get a mac or use pclinuxos
    • lacronicus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10honestly, nearly any step that puts windows closer to osx is good, but a few things arent, and those things are enough to keep me on the pc platform, namely open hardware. i cant build a mac, and although the benefit of not having to deal with bad hardware from the likes of dell i seliminated by the non-open hardware apple uses, I still like to know that I dont need a manufacturer to fix my computer. I tried linux, and it simply doesnt work as well as windows. sure, in the future, i will have enough coding experience to write some myself, but that is the only benefit i see in linux when $150 for an OS that i will use for years is a relatively cheap investment.
    • darkspire, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6Hey guess what... the NSA has contributed source code to various projects to run on the various Unix variants as well. Specifically take a look at selinux http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/news.cfm
    • trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19@darkspire The big difference being that it is kind of hard to put hidden back doors in open source code, no?
    • shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5this was off topic and really long so I deleted it -sorry
    • mc7winkie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2All I can say is thank you for your generosity.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9[quote]Hey guess what... the NSA has contributed source code to various projects to run on the various Unix variants as well. Specifically take a look at selinux http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/news.cfm[/quote]

      Last time I checked, Vista's source code wasn't publically available. It took all of Europe just to force MS to document their APIs!

      I would like legal assurance from MS that there aren't any kinds of backdoors in Vista. Backdoors for the NSA *AND* MS! I don't want MS looking around at my files either.

      (They would discover I stole Bill Gates' orbital battlestation plans)
    • JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@darkspire

      Hey guess what, there's a universe of difference between source code and binary blobs.
  • Electric_Sheep, on 10/12/2007, -17/+5Thats it, i'm moving to OS X!



    Oh wait, i'm already using OS X.

    I also live in another country, so i have no idea how legal this is.
    • lacronicus, on 10/12/2007, -16/+10OSX is overrated. it may be good enough, but MS still has it in most areas, and in third party support. the day you can build a mac will be the day i consider it for a desktop. laptops, they may have it (not for long though, the ones at CES looked pretty beast) but otherwise, they can keep their single digit marketshare and their mac fanboys. i want no part of it.
  • tempnegro10, on 10/12/2007, -18/+0TOTALLY OFFTOPIC BUT NEED HELP FINDING THIS SOFTWARE A DIGGER POSTED A WHILE AGO

    Does anybody know the invite only (I trhink) rss reader...the website had screenshots of it in windows vista, and included popup mouse feature for news, a label on top for news, and others, I can't find it anywhere!

    THANK YOU
    • JimDinger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yeah search for it on here or hey use this www.google.com
  • surfactant, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7WP link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801352.html

    "The Redmond, Wash., software maker declined to be specific about the contributions the NSA made to secure the Windows operating system."

    Eek.

  • offput, on 10/12/2007, -18/+11No one complained when the NSA created selinux. Stop being hypocrites.
    • trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21The big difference there being that it is kind of hard to put hidden back doors in open source code, no?
    • tagawa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19SELinux is open source. Apples and oranges.
    • BrainInAJar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Linux, unlike say... openbsd, is not periodically audited for security holes.

      Sometimes it seems nobody reads certain chunks of code. I think it would be pretty easy for someone like the NSA to hide backdoors if they wanted too, assuming the code was obsfucated enough and put in a low-developer-traffic part of the kernel
    • funk49, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Boy, I bet the NSA made sure to give MS EVERY SINGLE 0DAY they found in the code. Just so Microsoft could tighten everything up like the nice guys they are....RIGHT.

      @mlliving

      Please enlighten us as to what wonderful utopian paradise you come from where the politicians are honest and 90 percent of the citizens don't have their proverbial heads up their asses. Newsflash: The govt here has been corrupt for a hundred years and and short of a revolution, change is never going to happen barring some kind of national disaster.

      And...I wonder if this NSA connection to Vista has anything to do with Common Criteria evaluation that just about every OS goes through.
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Hey, just because Windows is closed source doesn't immediately mean that any NSA code going in there is for monitoring or backdoors. I mean, have you guys ever stopped to think that maybe it's in Microsoft's best interest to NOT allow that? Plus, Microsoft also stated that there are no backdoors whatsoever to their drive level encryption with BitLocker, which means if you lose your credentials you're *****. From the Wikipedia article on BitLocker:

      "According to Microsoft sources [3], BitLocker does not contain a backdoor; there is no way for law enforcement to have a guaranteed passage to the data on your drives. This has been one of the main concerns among power-users since the announcement of built-in encryption in Vista."
  • chuuchdizzle, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2so that was the security features Microsoft kept bragging about

  • ThinkFr33ly, on 10/12/2007, -14/+23FUD. The NSA helped audit many OS', including Windows XP, Windows 2003, and SE Linux.

    Take off your tin foil hats people.
    • shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11the tinfoil hat gag is getting a little tired if you ask me.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Tin foil hats help against non-lethal energy weapons. They're not a joke anymore.

      You'd really need more of a tin-foil suit than just a hat for it to be effective though.

      "The ADS shoots a beam of millimeters waves, which are longer in wavelength than x-rays but shorter than microwaves -- 94 GHz (= 3 mm wavelength) compared to 2.45 GHz (= 12 cm wavelength) in a standard microwave oven."

      http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,72134-0.html

      And you call us paranoid?
    • williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@ThinkFr33ly

      Our government is a corrupt cancer on the nation. WTF should anyone be happy about them sticking the anal probe in our software? ***** them and their mothers.
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"the tinfoil hat gag is getting a little tired if you ask me."

      Well, what the ***** are you lookin' at us for, you're the one wearin it. =
    • GliTCH82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow, I found a bug. If you type an equals sign immediately followed by a backslash, then try to edit your comment, you won't find the buttons to submit an edit to your comment. See, maybe the NSA should have contributed to Digg.





      ... or...not.
  • ben51959, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I'll be sleeping like a baby knowing the NSA is keeping my porn safe.
  • lowfalls, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0idiocracy is great.
  • BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Tin foil hat of the day award?
  • Altotus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4The NSA also contributed the open-source SE features to Linux. That's not to say that they might not have some nefarious relationship with MS, but there's precedent for them doing this sort of thing. After all, their secretaries use Windows and MS Word like everyone else's secretaries.
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Did you miss the first 100 times this was answered already?
    • Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4As trogdoor put it twice already,

      "The big difference there being that it is kind of hard to put hidden back doors in open source code, no?"
  • mushoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Since this "assitance" is at our expese I demand some form of rebate or price drop before I buy it.
    • tagawa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5At your expense, not mine - I live outside the US.
      I demand some form of supplement or price hike before I buy it.
  • antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Here come the tin-hat wearing crazies.
    • shmatt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2tinFOIL. you know a joke is getting old when people on the internet can't even tell it right anymore.
  • 0nova, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9People, before starting to bitch at Microsoft, read the article.

    "Microsoft is not the only one to tap the spooks. Apple, with its Mac OSX operating system, and Novell with its SUSE Linux also asked the NSA what it thought of their products. The NSA is quite good at finding weapons of mass destruction that are not there"

    People all the time complain about security flaws in Windows. Nobody cares / knows how many exist in Linux or Mac OS. If Microsoft takes a proactive steps in consulting a government agency to try find security holes, people complain again.

    Do you really think Microsoft will be so stupid to release an OS with backdoors to NSA. They will get sued their ass off.

    Now, nobody wants to should about Apple is it ? What about all the small GPS devices in your cellphones ? Oh yes, people don't bother about it because that was not made by Microsoft.
  • danrdanny, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Taking my tinfoil hat off for a moment - you also have to note that Apple solicited the help of the NSA on OSX (read the Washington Post article). You also have to admit that it's in their best interest to do 2 things - seriously try to find holes to protect US government users and find possible backdoors for their own exploitation in the future.

    Putting my tinfoil hat back on - it is pretty scary that the NSA and other unnamed government agencies get a serious first crack at developing exploits. It also wouldn't be completely surprising if they installed software of their own and/or advised certain development methods which they could exploit in the future.

    And don't think the US is the only government interested in setting up backdoors or having a first shot at exploits.
  • Phil246, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5Dont forget the NSA contributed to linux via SELinux.
    Dont let anti-microsoft hysteria lead you to conclude there must be foul play involved
    • nbx909, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10they invented SELinux for their own purposes.
    • BWhaler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9But the code is open source, so you can read the code and verify each and every function.

      WIndows, a closed system, does not allow for this.

      Your comment is so far off base, it is breathtaking.
    • FatShady, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@BWhaler: Yeah, because not only does *everyone* do that, but everyone who does is a software engineering prodigy and will be able to spot security flaws in no time.
  • nbx909, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Since when do we trust the inquirer?
    • TKardinal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1We most assuredly do not trust the Inquirer. They're a tabloid rag for the anti-MS crowd. They did reference the Post, which is good, but their commentary is unneccesary. Rather we should have Dugg the Post article itself.
  • nigel502, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5no more m$ products for me
    • Chakz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I for one welcome our old cliche using overlords.
  • JAWA, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Part of doing business with the government is opening up your code to them. When they suggest some enhancements to it, you implement it. If you don't, they may not buy your code.
  • felderado, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1digg down
  • 5DMT, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Seems that Bill is getting senile in his old age. Micro$oft's Suicide Note (VISTA/LONGHORN) is getting longer and bloodier. It won't be long until Linux and Macs rules the world...and I can be rid of Winblows...
    • Smokex365, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3And then we will sit back and laugh as virus writers and hackers turn their attention to those OS's. Viruses, exploits, and hacks are the price for market dominance. If linux or OS X was the dominate OS, they would have the same problem as windows. Don't try to kid yourself. It's all about how many people you can screw. MS, being the dominate software maker, is the best target right now.
  • omarsx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2hahahhahahaa... if the nsa is using microsoft then i am no longer worried about being spied on... their system must crash every 5 min..
  • onimusha115, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Too many things seem to be wrong with vista, from being far too compliant with drm, to the all too high computer specs required to simply run it. I switched to linux (fedora core) when my hdd ***** out on me and I didnt want to pay for xp again since I had lost my copy, and from what I have read about vista I see no need to go back. Linux does everything I need, yes, its a little complicated at times, but generally once your regular use programs are set up is smooth sailing from there. Plus my computer runs 24/7 with absolutly not lagging down over time like i had with windows, I no longer worry about/get viruses or spyware, and you just cant beat the price of the OS or its supporting programs. I am defanitly a linux convert from now on.
  • raccettura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So I'm supposed to believe someone who still denies wire tapping despite all the evidence?

    Yea.... sure.
  • dtfinch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1The NSA also contributed SELinux to the Linux kernel. Unspecified contributions could be anything though.
  • acidhash, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4You know, at this point, Microsoft is *****. Sorry, Bill. You guys are screwing around with NSA stuff and ***** all over your customers, while Apple is over here releasing the coolest ***** ever.
  • mliving, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Boy you Amerikans *****' kill me.

    Your President lies to start a war the world didn't need, pisses away three generations of resources while fattening the wallets of his corp buddies and campaign contributors, disappears people who disagrees with him, listens to your phone calls and recently stated with a signing statement that he can read your mail any time he wants yet the stupid *****' intelli-techies on DIGG start telling everyone to put away their tinfoil hats.

    Why not put down you shiny toys and shake your empty *****' heads a little harder so you can start counting how many of your precious "constitutional freedoms" have been pissed away by that functioning id10t, paranoid ***** you call your President.

    I'll keep my tinfoil hat on thanks and have fun with MSNSA Vista boys!

    As for SELinux. What does Linus have to say about these so-called NSA inclusions to the Linux kernel?
    • beotch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Inclusions into the Linux kernel are reviewed so it wouldn't matter if Stalin wrote code for it. Not to say sneaking in a useful buffer overflow is impossible, but it's much more difficult to do than have MS compile in NSA disk encryption keys and special tcp/ip fingerprint triggers activating ghost servers to download any information they want using the dead space in the packets while you visit msn.com or google.com.
    • summiter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"beotch" - that's the most technically enlightened/plausible description of how a backdoor would be implemented that I've seen so far in this thread.

      I ****** for *** ******** ****** and we ********* *** *************** * *** ********** **** all the time. ***!

      spook
    • elamr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@felderado

      So right. NSA, Secret Service et al hire all the time at events like Defcon. They've got some very talented hackers working for them.
  • marker7799, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1it's funny how everyone likes to talk about NSA snooping on their systems but doesn't know anything about NSA. NSA doesn't care about your personal life unless you're a terrorist.
    • rotarychainsaw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I was going to reply with a joke, but decided not to for fear of retaliation by the men in black suits.
    • tehkain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yea like the government did during the Red Scare. The People in power have never done anything to destroy another person for their own agenda when the person was guilty of nothing at all. Right?
    • OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You people don't realize how easily the political climate can change. You also don't realize where some of the industry is heading. They want to make your hardware be registered to you and strictly regulated just like a car, or a firearm. They want your hardware to leave tracks they can monitor. They want to know what you data you have. They want to track your purchases, your political affiliation, and your religion. They want to track you, they want every single human being instantly accessible, indentifiable--and targetable.

      This is not paranioa, this is the so-called Trusted Computing, and companies like Intel, Microsoft, as well as the Hollywood MAFIAA are actively pushing for it to become the de facto standard so they can have full control over your lives. Open-sourced software and "unauthorized" hardware would be blocked.

      That's their plan at least. I don't think it will succeed, but only if consumers stop it before it can. I hope by now George W. Bush has taught you all you need to know about complacency. And what would the next Bush be like? Can you trust the government and the corporations with such control over your lives?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing
  • uazzhole, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6If "they" think its OK to open your Mail, tap your phones , check your bank accounts....WITHOUT A WARRANT Then makes you think they wont to put some backdoor or anythings else in Vista....Thats smart thinking there..
    • tehkain, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1edit
    • beotch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Since the Chinese government (and for that matter the world's governments) use Windows, the NSA would be retarded not to put in back doors.

      I use Linux FTW.
  • dubcanada, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Oh lets all go on Apple.. Lets have 90% of the computer population ALL switch OS's at once.. Than we can wait for the BSD based Mac OS to grab a pile of viruses which render it unusable, and they get there ass sued off and the ipod gets a virus which deletes all your music and the iPhone gets a virus which charges your phone bill a few thousand..

    That sounds great! Yippie! I will tell all the Russians to start looking into a Apple insted of Windows.. Because you know that 5% there might be 10 people who can actually make a virus.. The rest are just photo dudes and people who love Apples..

    Personally I am quiet happy with my OS.. Sure it crashes, but meh.. Atleast I can play a video game without having to open up the buggy crossover crap and hope it works.
    • tehkain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Or you can switch to GNU/Linux. Plenty of people are trying to create viruses for linux since it represents such a large force on the commercial web and handles many or most transactions. Yet Linux hasn't imploded.
    • tehkain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Oh and if the market switched then games would be developed natively for that OS. Did you honestly think that all games needed to be virtualized on non windows systems? You sir are a moron.
  • Almadiel, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1This mindless paranoia is getting tiresome. Anyone could be reading your email or listening to your phone conversations. Does that means that everyone is doing so? No. The NSA has a limited budget for equipment and personnel, and it has a lot on its plate. They are not going to use their precious time to listen to you talking dirty with your girlfriend. The very nature of what the NSA does precludes the possibility of public oversight, because if everyone knew what they were doing and how, it would render their work useless. If you have any reason to think they are doing something wrong, elect a congressman who you trust to make good judgements about your privacy. That is why we have a congress, use the power of your vote, and talk to your representatives. But if all you have is vague, undirected distrust, then take this opportunity to shut the hell up. You are only making yourself part of the problem.
    • JusticeAK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Right, Nobody is tapping your phone, reading your mail, until you start speaking out in your town square about over taxation or political corruption. All the sudden your at the top of the list.

      I guess we should just all lay low, try not to attract any attention.
    • jimbo92107, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Limited budgets? Limited manpower? Dude, now who's delusional? What do you think all this BushCo secrecy is about? They're tapping into everything, and they're using _computers_ to filter email for all kinds of content, including political speech. We've got a government full of sneaky weasels, and they want to know what you do that they can use against you. Remember, hard drives are getting cheaper all the time, and the US government buys more of them than anybody.
    • Almadiel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You know who else stores all of your online communications? Various web services like Google. That doesn't mean they do anything with it. Unless you know of specific instances of misuse, you are only being paranoid. There is no evidence that the NSA is wiretapping US _citizens_ (without warrants) whatsoever. Could they still be doing it? Sure, they could. George Bush could be in your closet with night vision goggles right now for all we know, but it is foolish to think that he is unless there is an actual REASON to think that he is.
  • alternateheaven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It would be nice to think that the NSA sent some of that SElinux know-how over to MS but somehow I doubt its anything that benign

    rpc-dcom part deux anybody?
  • FrugalFreak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2my very thought when i saw the headline wizzerking. Microsoft-KGB version will not go on my PC. It just cemented my decision.
  • digitallysick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1users are smart, if the nsa left any backdoors in vista, users would figure it out sooner or later. Anything one man/men can create, other man/men can reverse engineer
  • ecorona, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm beginning to not trust closed source communications medium. At least not if I want secure communication.
  • GaelicBrigham, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The NSA has an open policy for crypto-systems developed by companies and individuals. You can submit you crypto to the NSA and they'll test it out. I admit that's a pretty simplified version of how it works, but that's the gist. What's funny is the turn around in the relationship between Microsoft and NSA compared to 1993 when NSA tried to strong-arm Microsoft from using a certain crypto system.

    Honestly, the article only alludes that NSA tested out Vista's cryptosystem. NSA has done that on a voluntary basis for thirty years. From this article- nothing to worry about. My problem is that tax-payer money was used to solidify a private companies money making angles.
    • williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That would be the optimistic view. Considering it is known that the "NSAKEY" has been proven to be a means of installing compromised cryptosystems, why should anyone be optimistic about NSA's intentions?
  • DamnLogins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1NSA and GCHQ between them probably monitor almost every email, phone call and SMS message sent anywhere on the planet. If this sounds paranoid read the following article from 2004.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06/03/text_punk/

    I don't really think they would be too delighted to be locked out of a new generation of email or people's PCs. They have spent billions getting their technology in place. Or maybe they really will say "Oh, phooey! It was fun while it lasted"...
  • JusticeAK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Read up on Trusted Computing, absolutely appalling.


    *Error I'm sorry this program cannot be executed because it is not part of the trusted platform module. please call your technical support.
  • jimbo92107, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For those who say conspiracy theories about Microsoft and spook agencies are the stuff of delusions, I have one question:

    How do you know?
  • Bitrate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Seems like some people have forgotten the NSA escrow keys that were discovered in Win95/98 and played down by M$ as "not important". Yeah sure. The NSA (Never Say Anything) has an unclassified division which designs and tests secure computer systems and has extensive knowledge about OS weaknesses and security flaws. They originally gave WinNT a C2 "capable" certification and whose to say they haven't embedded some new escrow keys and backdoors within Vista and other OS's. The odds are pretty high that such covert code exits within Vista.



  • lnf69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I think this post is a NSA attempt to troll for dissidents.

    /sarcasm stays on, (really, I'm just joking!!!!...
    wait....
    who's that?!?!?!?

    HELP HELP..........


    ERROR 86754334 THREAD TERMINATED.

    !!!! WARNING DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER !!!!
  • rstevens, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Bugs in homes?

    Why not plant video and audio bugs in every home? They already tap our phones, read our emails and can break in when they want and arrest us.

    America, Mark Twain once said, is a nation without a distinct criminal class "with the possible exception of Congress." Does anyone believe today's government is just a "possible exception"? People, had enough yet?
  • clubmasta2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So I don't mean to put a tin foil hat on here but isn't this just more proof the government is spying on us? I mean...sure...they could just be being nice...but it's the government...why would they be nice?
  • thund3rstruck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1article referenced from:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801352.html
  • mehere, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Geez - Microsoft and a Government Agency working together to make an OS "more secure". This can only result in Windows being the most hole ridden FUBAR'ed piece of junk ever created.
  •  

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