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- solidcube, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42I love this.
Sooner or later, they'll realize that infrastructural attacks are much more powerful than attacks on civilians, in the propaganda battle and otherwise. Attacks on pipelines, unguarded transportation infrastructure such as train tracks, power lines, water mains and gas depots would cause much more economic disruption and would help them on the world stage.
Nobody likes people who blow up full commuter buses. - OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -12/+35That's just brilliant; you want to gain sympathy for your political cause and you use the name "Team Evil."
Makes me wonder if this was really done by Palestinians, because I doubt Muslim activists, any more than Jews or Christians, would name themselves something like that? - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -14/+37Yes! Violence is the answer, kids! Nukes for everybody! I'll come out of my bunker to sweep up the mess once you all are done.
- nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -17/+37Nox - you realize that a independent British probe cleared the Israelis for that incident last week? Turns out the shell size wasn't one the Israeli army even owns. Wait a minute, it actually happened to be an Palestinian shell. But you wouldn't want facts to get in the way of your claim, would you? As Bob Dylan said, "I'll know my song well before I start singing".
- Spazkake, on 10/12/2007, -24/+43Maybe they'll nuke your hometown next.
- bennypowers, on 10/12/2007, -34/+53They can try peace maybe? they can stop sending their children to blow themselves up on buses and in cafes, they can stop engouraging jihad on their children's programming, they can maybe READ the quran and see what it says about murder
- invisiblesun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I'm sorry, but this thread has shown how ignorant and blind some users of Digg are. There's no point in dealing with people who think that Jews are controlling the world. If you believe this, you're an idiot. That's blunt, but it's true. People who decide that Israel acts out of evil have no concept of foreign or domestic policy and has not researched the subject at all. Things are not black and white. Read up, and until then, shut up.
- nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -17/+30Isn't this board supposed to be about tech-related issues? I am confident that I will be modded down faster than you can say "pave the rain-forests" but I feel like I should put in my own two cents. I live in Israel and have lived here for 10 years. I am now in my early twenties and have already been within a mile of no less than 5 terrorist attacks. Israel is not a third-world country. We are the third-most innovative country in the hi-tech field. Israel has the two top universities in the Middle East (according to Time magazine). Israel has also tried to make peace for years. In the past twenty years, deals offering the Arabs over 89% of the land they demand have been roundly rejected by fundamentalists. In the meantime, I have lost 4 friends. 2 blown up in a pizza store, 1 stabbed and left to bleed and 1 blown up the morning before her wedding. I cry for every life lost in this battle but there is a huge difference in killing militants and killing innocent children. And read the news - evidence has shown that Israel didn't kill those kids last week. But that doesn't stop y'all does it?
Hell, I know I'll be modded down. Someone needed to say it though. - nox327, on 10/12/2007, -31/+42They must be pretty good hackers, I mean 700 websites is a lot of hacking. I am sure Israel will retaliate by killing a dozen Innocent kids, It's not like they haven't done it before.
- nox327, on 10/12/2007, -13/+24
where are you getting your sources from? Is it Fox, try watching BBC and you see what is really going on. - nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18Thanks for your comment. Which village massacres are you talking about? Also, Israel has been trying to break the cycle. Camp David, Oslo, the recent disengagment, the roadmap and more all come to mind. As even the PA chairman, Abbas, said two days ago, there is no one to negotiate with in the Hamas government. HOw could we when their official charter states "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad" and "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."? Try negotiating with that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -41/+51They are fightning a powerful army back by world power nation USA. so what else can they do...
- jimbouk, on 10/12/2007, -12/+22@nofunnystuff
Probably because the Israeli army has a penchant for shooting British reporters...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1490144,00.html - kiwimonk, on 10/12/2007, -18/+28Talented Misguided Kids. Come follow me my arab brothers.. Israeli chicks are hot. lets go marry em.. Love more . Hate Less.
- staticfish, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16You move in on their land, and claim it's your homeland.
You push them out to the Gaza strip, take everything away from them. The Palestinians are now a destitute people with nothing.
You control their airspace, and ports. You destroyed their Airport, and renamed it.
Yes they have nothing. No they should not attack you, but you have the upper hand. You should be the ones that take pity on the people that have given you so much. - iceanfire, on 10/12/2007, -10/+19You make it sound as if isreal is perfect and the palestinans fighting for no reason whatsoever. Lets face it, it all comes down to this : isreal will not given up jerusalm and the palestinians will keep fighting for it. Its like me saying "Hey, i offered you all this ITEMA but you stlil refused" when the battle is over ITEMB. Furthermore, Isreal hasn't been very helpful towards the peace process. They've built walls surrounding the palestinans restricitng their access to trade etc and therefore devastating their economy. They keep attacking palestine with tanks etc... when its already been established that these actions don't solve anything and instead raise the cycle of hatred etc... Furthermore, there have been many documented incidents of isreal accidently killing plenty of civilians and childrens (as is customary in any war) and these civilian deaths are far greater than the civilian deaths that Iseral suffers. My point is, that Isreal has made many mistakes and continues to make them (much like palestine) and that this conflict isn't as black and white as it may seem to you.
edit: "nofunnyshtuff" makes a very good point. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I understand your point but I still think that Israel is doing more than any country would in order to avoid thuggy behavior. I don't know what you know, but last week an 18 year-old hitchhiker was killed, 3 soldiers were killed and a soldier was kidnapped. Instead of going in to get him, Israel has resorted to diplomatic measures to retrieve him. Only when even the Egyptian president (and the PA chairman, Abbas) both agreed that the Hamas isn't willing to talk did we even enter Azza. And you don't think Israel is working to resolve the conflict? Last year over 8000 Israelis were removed from their homes in the West Bank in a unilateral move in order to provide the PA with room to rebuild. Instead they kidnap. How would you respond?
- dfratz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Just for the record, you can disagree with Israeli policy and argue against their being in the West Bank, but please, leave the anti-semitism out of this. I don't care how you justify it, saying Jews control the media and implying some kind of conspiracy is deplorable. Its how we got into this mess 60 years ago in the first place. You can have a vigorous intellectual debate from both sides without portraying a minority in the worst possible light.
- spamzor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11If you consider how long this 'war' has been going on for and the continous eye for an eye mentality, when someone has a family member killed they wouldn't really want to take out some web servers they would want to kill some people...
It's a very emotional sort of war, religion & greed, that ***** is ***** up - krutadal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@nofunny: Do you have a source for that?
The latest thing I can find on BBC News (which would be a natural source for a *British* probe), is this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/5079464.stm - nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18Explain to me how a comment like "I never condone attacks of any kind, but the Israelites are being pure evil dicktards" gets modded way up while a normal comment, explaining the situation from the point of view of an Israeli gets modded down in less than 30 seconds. Lord knows I love Digg, but it has clearly failed as a political discussion forum.
- nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14You are paying for me to learn English?! Thank you! Funny, I didn't see your name on the schools I went to in the US (where I lived as a resident for 12 years). Just to clear up misunderstandings. I am a 5th generation American. Yes, I do live in Israel for ideological reasons but I still pay American taxes. I still have an American passport. I have an American education. Bashing individuals for there views and resorting to curse words does not strengthen your argument, my friend.
- bob_the_alien, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I totally agree with you, The country is Israel to begin with they won the war ages ago, and now it's there country, and I think they have been more than fair with the west bank, more than I would be if I was a Political power.
Really people, what if it was your country, and a group of people decided that they hated you and wanted the country, would you stand by and just let it happen or would you fight back. Israel had their war and established their country 50 years ago, and this is still ongoing, but now a big portion of the world thinks they should like the Palestine's have part of the country, would you be willing to say you'd do that. Wars are won and lost, why should you give back what your ancestors fought and died for.
I have a problem with the war in IRAQ as well, but only because I believe there was damn good reasons to go there, like the fact Saddam kills his own people in masses, that fact right there was a good enough reason to take him out. Now however, we are not fighting a war, the war is over, and we are trying to help the people of Iraq with their new government. People in this U.S. are having a problem with this, but should we just abandon them and let they fend for their selves so the next dictator can come and take over, NO we shouldn't. It is my personal belief that a very large portion of American are frankly self center, stupid and have no morals. As a whole I love my country, but America is starting to become a country that even I don't understand or agree with. government or it's people. - xr56n44, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6palestinians hacking computers? i didn't see that coming, last i knew they were still throwing rocks at tanks.
- staticfish, on 10/12/2007, -33/+39I never condone attacks of any kind, but the Israelites are being pure evil dicktards
- invisiblesun, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16I'm not sure why everyone is modding down the opinions of people supporting the Israelis. Just as much as any of you think that there are lies about Israel's bad dealings, there are just as many, if not more lies about what the Palestinians are doing.
Keep in mind that Israel has independent media that can criticize its government. The Palestinians will be quick to call any body a casualty of Israeli forces because there's almost nobody to fact-check. - Fleury, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Unless you want Israel to have no territory at all, isn't the problem that nobody recognizes Israel and basically all the Arab countries have tried since the inception of Israel to erase it from the planet? As far as I know, only one or two Arab countries even recognize Israel as a country. Territory is certainly an issue for the Palestinians and other Arab countries, but I don't know how you can come up with a solution when their stance appears to be the nonexistence of the other side.
The recent moves by Israel has been to *withdraw* from Gaza and leave it to the Palestinians, not to try to grab more territory. Extremist settlers aside, territory is not the issue anymore for Israel. Security is. - annonimality, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12@OBKenobi
Are you aware that this current uprising, or the "al-Aksa intifada", began in September of 2000, according to Palestinian spokesman, as a result of Ariel Sharon's visit to the Temple Mount. Not exactly what you can call oppression.
And the "bits and pieces" of Palestinian land were taken after the Israeli victory in 1967. The Israeli's have been giving back bits and pieces ever since. - staticfish, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10You are the sort of human scum that should not be allowed the privilege of life.
But that would make me as bad as you.. - Eicos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Why should conflict be adjudicated on the basis of majority rule? Would you condone murder if 50% of people thought it it acceptable in certain circumstances?
- nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I am sorry you think that. I live in Israel but am a left-winget against the occupation. I speak fluent Hebrew and Arabic and read Al Jazeera News (and any other Arabic newspaper I can get my hands on), Maaariv, Haarts, The Wallstreet Journal, The New York Times and various foreign affairs journals every week. And don't ask me how I have time - its part of my job (so I get paid to do it and love it). I am not spewing random crap. I'd be happy to point to any sources if there is any particular fact you are unaware of.
- jimbouk, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10@dfratz
"if citizens in YOUR country were kidnapped, your soliders taken hostage, how would your government respond?"
ummm.... we wouldn't wipe out their entire power supply and 'kidnap' their government. we also wouldn't attempt to disrupt their water and sewerage systems.
im afraid israel can't expect the support of western nations until it respects western standards on human rights. the horros suffered by israeli citizens are not any justificatin for barbaric behaviour. - salar, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11I did mod you up for offering your point of view.
It's hard for me to take sides. I think Israelis are bullies and the fundamentalists don't deserve sympathy because of the way of life they promote. (Same one you mentioned)
While I do feel for your loss, let me also point out that whole palestinian villages have been assassinated while you lost 4 friends. Even though they may be well justified, they don't do well in the minds of kids who grow up there. It makes them want to blow themselves up in pizza stores. That makes Israelis blow up more villages, and the cycle goes on.
I think given your description of Israel as an educated society, then you are the ones that should break the cycle; or at least stop amplifying it.
Offer their kids an opportunity to live life like we do. Let them in your universities with scholorships, hire them in your companies and stop racism towards them as inferior non-human creatures. All people want is respect. That would do a better job at cutting down violence and boosting your security that retaliation. - dfratz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Just for historical accuracy...
1-The claim on Israel by the Jews goes back thousands of years to the time of the Old Testament and has been verified archaeologically. After all, that wailing wall there was built long before the mere concept of a Muslim was a glimmer in Mohameds eye.
2-There is no denying that Israelis resorted to assymetric warfare when fighting the British. What you neglect to mention is that they never targeted civilians, only the British military. Also, they were quite humane in comparison to the Palestineans. For instance, when they bombed the King David hotel, which used to be a British command post, they CALLED an hour in ADVANCE to give them time to evacuate!
3-It was the UN, not Israel that partitioned Israel into Jewish and Arab sides. The Jews were more than happy with their part, while the Arabs launched the Independence War of 1948 against Israel in an effort to wipe out the newly created country.
These are matters of irrefutable historical fact. Just so you know. - nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12I understand your point but I still think that Israel is doing more than any country would in order to avoid thuggy behavior. I don't know what you know, but last week an 18 year-old hitchhiker was killed, 3 soldiers were killed and a soldier was kidnapped. Instead of going in to get him, Israel has resorted to diplomatic measures to retrieve him. Only when even the Egyptian president (and the PA chairman, Abbas) both agreed that the Hamas isn't willing to talk did we even enter Azza. And you don't think Israel is working to resolve the conflict? Last year over 8000 Israelis were removed from their homes in the West Bank in a unilateral move in order to provide the PA with room to rebuild. Instead they kidnap. How would you respond?
- staticfish, on 10/12/2007, -13/+18Okay Scheper, this one is easy. Why do you think they get backing from the US (specifically the states of NY etc) - Is it because they think what the Israelis are doing is right? No! It's because the USA has a huge Jewish voting population, and it would seriously hurt the American administration if they were to intervene
- tweeto, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Just for clearing things up,
They didn't hacked 700 sites, they hacked the provider servers, no harm to any Israeli site, and all the 700 was up and running in 5 minutes, I would like to say "stupid Arab script kiddies" but I'll keep it to my self... ops. - PoptartKing, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I really do hope that's a view of the future. More would be inconvenienced, I guess, but that's quite the improvement over dead.
- diargasm, on 10/12/2007, -16/+20Only 700 Israeli Web Sites? By the end of next week, Israel will kill nearly that many Palestinians. Didn't this all start when Israel launched a rocket at a family on a beach, killing 7 members of the family? They expected the Palestinians to take that lightly?
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -15/+19[quote]I never condone attacks of any kind, but the Israelites are being pure evil dicktards[/quote]
I've notice every time the Palestinians stop terrorizing the Israelis, the Israelis go back to oppressing them. Whether through violence, or interference with their government, or by taking bits and pieces of their territory, or building walls.
This conflict is never going to end, at least not peacefully. - noGoodNamesLeft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@Eicos; exactly. It was nothing but hypocrisy for those in power in certain Middle Eastern countries to condemn the Mohammed cartoons, whilst at the same time allowing far more offensive anti-semitic cartoons and propoganda (the usual "Protocols"-derived garbage) to be freely disseminated there.
I like to think I'm a reasonably tolerant person, but when the leaders of such countries ask for "sensitivity" and "respect" for their religion, such requests should be considered in the context of their unwillingness to speak out against some of their own citizens' less respectful material. - LMN8R, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6The only thing the kidnapping of the IDF soldier, and killing of two others, shows is once again, that the Palestinian government cares more about killing Israelis than protecting their own people. This entier charade could have been avoided if Hamas just released that soldier.
- mushoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Maybe they're just like you, me, and the rest of the peoples that make use of the internet. Their name sounds sardonic to me.
- nofunnyshtuff, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14"I can believe you that because $10 of every person in America goes to you for research". Dude, I hate to do this to your argument but almost all the money given to Israel as support can only be spent in the United States. That was the US gets something out of it too. And believe it or not, while we aren't sharpening our horns or testing pitchforks, we do live in a capitalistic country with minimal government intervention. The hi-tech market is a consumer-driven market. So the money from the US amounts to diddly squat. Good times.
Fine, throw the Dier Yassen massacre. The responsible soldiers are sitting in jail. The Jenin massacre NEVER HAPPENED! And that's not just what Israel claims. The official UN report on the matter says the same thing. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-08-01-unreport-jenin_x.htm - Crustibooga, on 10/12/2007, -21/+25It's ok, (with just a pinch of sarcasm) Israel will hit back with destroying a few dozen palastinian homes. At least this is non violent. However I'm sure Israel and its supporters will find something of pure evil about it.
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11Like the name Team Evil.
- bennypowers, on 10/12/2007, -12/+15I suspect that there is an organized attempt to discredit Israel supporters on this site... either that or it's just the same baseless hatred of Israel we've had for millenia...
- diargasm, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13It's not a "war". There is no Palestinian Army. Israel is occupying the little land that is left for Palestinians. Unlike you, us Americans are tired of getting our name dragged through the mud, because our "ally" can't make peace and concede any real territory for peace.
- Jessehk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Most of these comments are sickening. It's Nazi propaganda from WWII revisited. I am actually becoming quite depressed from the ignorance and racism in most of the comments that have been modded up.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Innocent until proven guilty
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