What is Digg?77 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+28CONGRATULATIONS! You have just posted the most asinine thing EVER on digg! A lot of posts are as ignornat as yours, but you took it a step further with your "profit deal" *****. You honestly think they are making more money from these piece of ***** criminals fines than the program (car, enforcement, court costs, etc) are costing them?
That really goes above and beyond your mere ignorance in talking about entrapment when you obviously have no ***** idea what entrapment is. Or how somehow leaving a car on a street is "creating" the thief who steals it.
Nice job. You ae the king of the ***** idiots! - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17It's not entrapment. In order to successfully claim entrapment the defendant must demonstrate that the police induced an otherwise unwilling person to commit a crime. If you get into a car that is not yours with the intention of driving away with it, you are not an unwilling participant in the process.
- MrZop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@Urusai.
Well, here in Vancouver Canada we were on the very first to introduce bait car programs. and the drop in auto thefts shows it works. it is a great deterrent. less people want to take the risk. obviously people are still stealing cars. but not as many. it does work. - JohntB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10They can hardly force them to steal the cars. It's quite possible that they would have stolen another car if they didn't steal that one.
- FogDogg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Yup, we have the same program here in BC, Canada.
http://www.baitcar.com/
You can watch videos of the thieves stealing the car, when the police disable the car, and as the police move in to arrest the thieves. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Sorry, but MiddleGirth narrowly beat you out for dumbest comment ever. But maybe you can try to explain how just having a car in public is CREATING the criminal.
"But your honor! She WANTED me to rape her! She was dressed in a tank top!" - fkuall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6the best Baitcar vid out there
http://www.baitcar.com/videos/oncoming
a bunch more vids
http://www.baitcar.com/videos/oncomingd - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"Maybe it is just me, but I was taught not to talk about things unless I had SOME clue as to what I am talking about. Obviously, you were not given the same guidelines for life."
Look man, give them a break. For some of these guys "Entrapment" is the only three-syllable word in their vocabulary. Of course they're going to get a bit excited when an oppurtunity comes along to trot it out. "I'm talking legal!" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8How many people are going to stupidly use the word Entrapment when they clearly have NO IDEA what that acually means?
Maybe it is just me, but I was taught not to talk about things unless I had SOME clue as to what I am talking about. Obviously, you were not given the same guidelines for life. - wembley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"St. James also asked Judge James Garrecht to fine the men $42 for each day they serve in jail, the standard cost of care for inmates. Garrecht refused."
... are you trying to argue against yourself? It plainly states that the judge refused to charge them with this cost. So you just tallied up how much it *costs* to hold them in jail. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Ah yes, damn those goose-stepping fascist cops for forcing innocent thieves into cars that don't belong to them!
And comments like Lakawak's are the reason I can't just Ignore idiots like MiddleGirth. If I had this jackass on Ignore I'd never even see Lak's riposte. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Seriosuly, quit while you are behind. RTFA about the car. It is a high tech car that costs money to do. They are not just taking a seized car and putting it on the street. And the cost of PROSECUTING a low life car theif is FAR more than what they will ever pay in a fine.
Time to stop reading the far left websites for anything other than pure enjoyment of the fiction. - vermin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm surprised at all the negative response to this program. There are plenty of misguided programs that the government pumps money into, likewise there are plenty of terrible policies and laws that put many productive and non-criminal people into jails needlessly. However, bait car programs are the EXACT type of program the government should be putting money into. There are statistical links that show car theives are also likely to be violent criminals. These are the people you want to put in jail, not the white collar worker who smoked a joint.
In Vancouver, Canada where the bait car program was first deployed in North America, there has been a more then 20% drop in car thefts and "This equates to 3067 fewer vehicles stolen provincially compared to the previous year at a cost savings to BC residents of approximately $12.2 million." Bait car programs are NOT entrapment and are a good idea. - daeyeth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4A few Canadian cities have been doing this for a while too. Surely you've seen those bait car videos on the net? If not, search bait car on youtube and check 'em out. Quite entertaining seeing the canadian thieves panic and scream out, "*****' ey!"
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9No, entrapment would be if an undercover cop walked up to you and said, "Hey, bud, lookit that, somebody left the keys in the car, nudge, nudge, I know a guy that'll pay good money for it, why don't you drive it over to 123 Crooked Lane?"
In other words, the cops don't induce the crime. Even so, it stinks because the crime would not be committed except that the cops left the bait car out. We can only speculate whether some other car would have been jacked instead, and speculation does not a criminal conviction make. - scottc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"the rate of auto thefts remains down about 30 percent since the bait cars first hit the streets"
Do you really think that's a coincidence? - helix400, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9From wikipedia's Entrapment entry: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment )
"For the defense to be successful, the defendant must demonstrate that the police induced an otherwise unwilling person to commit a crime. However, when a person is predisposed to commit a crime, offering opportunities to commit the crime is not entrapment,"
Putting cars on the street is not entrapment. The thieves are willing to steal, and the police didn't induce them to commit the crime. Further, the court system has allowed bait cars to function for years. This is simply not entrapment. - loveandrockets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Good video of idiots stealing baitcars.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iIDxHZ-T640 - Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We all especially loved the psycho meth head who stole a bait car and was driving so insanely that the cops were too afraid to shut it down because he was going so fast that likely would have killed someone..
I think they finally took the car down the old fashioned way.. And man, you shoulda heard the guy screaming and raging like a lunatic when the cops came on the car speakers and said it was a bait car, yada yada. It become a Vancouver PR csmpaign againsy crystal meth the guy was so nuts.
And in the true Canadian tradition, I think he was handed a limp sentence and paroled within months. - MrZop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ok, 1, they don't leave keys in the car. they make them look asmuch like regular cars as possible, right down to the 35 cents left in the ashtray.
And the police are around. the baitcar programs also issue the help of alot of police work. setting up and covert deployment, to surrounding the suspect and ending the situation in a safe way, it takes alot of actual police work.
and when dealing with car thieifs, it's hard to just "Catch Them" any other way. they blend into a crowd and arent very suspicious. so setting up a bait car is a good idea. cause just seing a car on the road you can't tell if it's stolen, makes catching car thiefs diffucult to catch in the act. - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wow, that was a really skillful segue into public transportation. I'm curious as to why you feel that criminals would stop stealing stuff if we simply removed one type of consumer good. One would logically think that a theif would simply.. steal something else. I mean the motivation and disposition to steal things would still be there even if we had a kickass public transportation system. Hell, look at NYC: their muni is awesome but people are still stealing *****.
- osbjmg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Mootabolife - ***** Joe, it's not his car. That's EXACTLY what is wrong. A bad life does not give you the right to steal my stuff. Also, if Joe assumed all Americans were armed, he would be more hesitant to just mug someone because of his bad situation.
- mapkinase, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What kind of idiot are you? Look up the meaning of entrapment
http://www.google.com/search?hs=drV&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&l&q=define%3Aentrapment&btnG=Search - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Moota...yeah, because stealing cars is the best way to prodice for your wife and kids.
Just ***** ridiculous. Waaah wahhh! Poor little thieves! It is SOCIETY'S fault! Right.
I would bet your worthless life that EVERY single one of the 240 people caught in this city were NOT charged with their first offense. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Awwww...I severely destroy Girthys reputation so he stalks me. How sad.
Hang on. I gotta go. The governemtn is fining a homeless man $5000. I am sure they will collect it! It's a profit deal after all. Law eforcement is how the governemtn funds all the other programs. IT costs taxpayers nothing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wow! It is amazing how stupid people are willing to look just to be anti-governemtn. The jobs of cops is not to "prevent crimes" except in that by ARRESTING criminals, they get them off the street. And that is EXACTLY what this is doing.
Did you read the article, you dumb *****? Can you even read? Car theft is down 30% since the program began. Sounds like the fear that the car they are about to steal is a bait car is PREVENTING would be car thieves from stealing other cars. Go figure. EXACTLY what the cops are supposed to be doing.
What would be great is if you could provide ANY evidence to back up your claims that cops are sitting and watching crimes rather than stopping them. If you can't, all you are doing is whining like the little bitch that you are. Making ***** up because the truth does not back up your bitchfest. - bombshelter13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Really? Vancouver's been doing this in Minneapolis?
- brucebeh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3they same something similar in vancouver...
www.baitcar.com great videos too! - Chompy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hey Capone, I hate to interrupt your planning session but the cops are usually also watching the car; your "cell phone jammer" idea isn't going to stop you from getting busted.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3urusai...there is no speculation necessary. They ARE stealing a car. Just because it is a bait car set up by the cops doesn't mean it isn't an ACTUAL theft of a car. They are simply stealing the cops car. It doesn't belong to the theives, and they are trying to take it. STEALING. Does not require any guesswork for that.
Besides, you really think that these theives are honest people, never committing crimes, but are just SO enamored with this ONE particular automobile that they will try to steal a car for the first and only time in their lives? I dare say that because of the 240 arrests made in that city, there are over 1000 cars that haven't been stolen. Keeps insurance costs down. - DigitAl56K, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You:
'You have to wonder if this is an effective use of resources."
From the summary:
"The conviction rate is nearly 100 percent"
And since they can simply park the bait cars and leave them (nobody has to sit and watch them since they are all monitored and controlled remotely) that has to be one of the most efficient and safest bust techniques used by the police today.
Next stupid question? - Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Your life of crime ruined when you realize the cops don't give a ***** what you look like, they kill the engine, lock the doors, and come pick you up. Sorta like Enterprise Rent-a-car, but not as amicable.
- msafi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4chop their hands. ***** thieves.
- JamesWilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Alright granted this is a valid way to make people steal cars less often. But it does not address the reasons for stealing them--therefore:
The would-be theives will go to a different underground market.
How about actually solving the problem? Make drugs legal. Give valid, factual, information about the drugs. Control the supply. Find out who is addicted. Offer them support.
There was a heroin injection site in Canada already, I heard the director talking about it on NPR, how it was helping so many people. They had scientific evidence to support they were helping the community, not hurting it.
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/health/060902/x090204.html
Fix the problems that are causing the thefts. It will really do no good to just stop the thefts, as the crime will just migrate elsewhere. - jesterace, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This is news? Vancouver has been doing this for some time now...
- afx1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wonder what were the circumstances that the few people did get off?
- dpk87, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.baitcar.com/sites/baitcar-com.bryght.net/files/Darren%20web%20version.wmv
Bait car video. - porkstacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, if only this "bait car" program were in full force in the central valley area of California (Modesto, Stockton, etc.) then they'd catch all these unsavoury characters who are responsible for 75% of car theft in the Bay Area and most of Northern California. (Modesto/Stockton = highest incidents of auto theft in CA, last time I checked)
- Giga, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2This is probably the most enjoyable argument I have ever read...
- donatj, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4A nice car left in public? Your just begging them to steal it! heh
- hobophobe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You miss my point. The first thing they'll teach you in the military is to keep your foot locker locked. Why? Because it cuts down on theft tremendously if there's less opportunity. We live in a world where everyone needs these expensive things called cars. It's like leaving a pile of money on the street. Everyone needs money, right?
I expected to be dugg down for the comment. I know that 99% of society backs the car 100% and that won't change any time soon. That's fine, but it's also completely stupid.
If you look at the world's transportation mechanisms, from horses back in the day, to bicycles then and now, and cars, you see that any of these will be stolen. Trains? Well I can't think of the last time I heard of someone stealing a train. Aircraft are stolen, but less frequently due to the complicated nature of piloting them.
This, among other reasons, points to a systematic flaw in our transportation system. You can bitch at me but until you address the issue you're just bitching.
Now, to address each response:
1. 'You're dumb'
Thanks for playing, I can't expected to respond to that seriously.
2. 'You're saying get rid of the motives of theft, hippy.'
Yes. I am. You didn't actually address or show it to be problematic. Oh, you insulted me too. Congratulations I hope your ego feels better for it.
3. 'This is efficient.'
It is a good way to catch car thieves. The overall resource use is silly. Again, no one steals trains. How many cars are stolen each year? How many accidents occur? How much money does the overall system cost? Far more than with a rail-based or semi-rail system. I'd appreciate your comment more if you didn't insult me.
4. 'This is cutting auto theft.'
First I'd like to say thanks for not insulting me. Yes, it is. That's good, I suppose, but ultimately it is only attacking a symptom of a larger problem. I mean, we could continue this method to other routes, such as having robotic old ladies march up and down streets with wads of cash sticking out of their pocket books. So we'd catch people for trying to rob, too.
Ultimately we have to find out why people are stealing and give them alternatives. Anyone that understands basic psychology knows that when there's an incentive to steal people will steal. When there's a deterrent such as prison, they'll still steal depending on the reward and risk of getting caught (and even then, some minority will still steal). So in order to fix things we should look at ways other than continually adding more bandaids to a gaping sore. That's my point. If you want to address it (and not insult me in the process) more power to you. I'm all for open-minded discussion. - tawker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Do you know what a fight it was to introduce the bait car program into Vancouver Canada. I was talking to someone who was one of the first to create the technology and pitch it to ICBC (the Insurance Corp of BC - the people footing the bill) and they refused and refused and refused to launch bait cars..
Finally they gave in and guess what, there's not a city out there that isn't looking at the program. Oh, and watch out, bait boats and bait bikes are out there too. - thewaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1the freakin description says "since 1997" 9 years seems like a while to me.
- Rikkochet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Odd, last week I was working on a similar plan to handle pickpockets/purse snatchers.. Just sit down at a sidewalk cafe with your iPod sitting on the rail or on the far side of the table right by the street. Read a paper while listening to your tunes.. When someone walks by and snatches the iPod, reach for your handy dandy remote in your pocket and detonate the 1/2lb of C4 that you actually put inside the iPod. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
- thewaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i'd like to know how they get a hidden camera on taht bait bike.. haha. the bag in front maybe? seems a little tricky.
- thewaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"its not entrapment"
am i the 100th not entrapment comment, did i win teh prize?? - Tenlow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Even I dont think it's a "for profit" deal, and I've got some pretty stupid views on alot of things.
- dodger2020, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm sure your tune would change if it was YOUR car that got stolen. If the program gets criminals off the street and reduces the rate of that particular crime then what's the problem? Plus, a lot of these thieves ARE violent criminals. Watch the baitcar vid of that ***** methhead. How is driving a truck at nearly 100mph in ONCOMING traffic not violent? In addition to reducing car theft it possibly (and in some cases it's proven) reduces other types of crimes as well.
I applaud this program and wish they had it in every big city. - Yashu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"What would be great is if you could provide ANY evidence to back up your claims that cops are sitting and watching crimes rather than stopping them."
A perfect example is the common speed trap. Apparently you have never driven a car in the USA.
Your post implies to me that you are fairly young... When you are older, and with more experience, you may have a different perspective... especially when you see a good percentage of your paycheck going towards ***** like this.
Personally, I am ***** tired of paying for the housing of literally millions of "criminals", many whom were put there for non-violence. - JusPasnThru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Though I understand your point clearly "JamesWillson"...Read the 2 paragraphs below that I've taken from an article on Private Prisons...then ask yourself...Hmmmmmm, do I REALLY think "THEY" want to fix the drug use problem (or any other problem that might land someone in prison in the U.S.A), or are "THEY" looking to create new ones?...(JustAThought)...
Private-prison stats are even more troubling. By mid-2003, commercially owned prisons accounted for 90,700 inmates, up from 76,010 in 2000. Today this population has surely topped 100,000. Though it's only five percent of the total behind bars, it's the fastest-growing sector of the penal world. Why? Because it includes around 25,000 immigrants, refugees, and undocumented detainees in INS camps that are privately run.
Yet the Bureau of Justice says that violent U.S. crime is down. So.um, why do we need more prisons? Well, several reasons. The prison industry needs growth potential, so its lobby group is working legislators big-time to get what it wants. Legislators are obliging them by creating more new "crimes" (mostly of the nonviolent/victimless variety) with more severe sentencing. After 9/11, stock prices of correctional corporations went through the roof-investors were hoping for a boom in terrorist-related prison building. -
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