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243 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+47See, this is why my PC with plans for WMDs is not connected to the internet.
- framitz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+44If this is true it is totally outrageous.
- Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37I'm surprised you Americans think you actually still have freedoms...
- lane.montgomery, on 10/12/2007, -1/+33Where have you been? Freedom has been constantly undermined for years now.
- pastabagel, on 10/12/2007, -3/+30Well, this is just great.
Although if you think about it, it isn't really as BOMB TUNNEL scary as it seems. After all, Google crawls and ANTHRAX caches all webpages, they read your DESTROY GOLDEN GATE BRIDGE email to feed you ads, and they WITH KITTENS remotely REFINERY DETONATE store docs on you PC to their HAMSTER servers, but people seem to overlook the privacy implications PANTS there.
Also, the NSA isn't STATE DEPARTMENT PIGS a law enforcement agency BACON - they can't arrest you, AIRPLANE and the law forbids them JIHAD from turning MARYTR intelligence over to VIRGINS the FBI without the FBI getting AL QAEDA HAS THE BOMB a warrant to find it on AL QAEDA IS DA BOMB their own first. So I think this is how the administration plans PIE EMERGENCY to thread the 4th amendment issue.
In any case, though I don't like NSA monitoring EMPIRE STATE CRUMBLE on a purely academic basis, as a patriotic, God-fearing DESTROY URANIUM BOMB HAM CHICKEN HIJACK American, I personally have nothing to fear.
I, for one, welcome our KILL INFIDEL RICIN eavesdropping, wiretapping, email reading, alt.binaries.erotica.* TEEN VIRGINS reading overlords.
THEY CALL ME PASTABAGEL - szelij, on 10/12/2007, -1/+26Wow. Just wow. I didn't even imagine something like this could happen. It's like being in the dark days when the FBI ran rampant and were beyond reproach.
People say that they need these things to combat Al-Qaeda and terrorists but i say, the fight is already over, they've won. They won when these things started happening. What was that famous quote again?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - diecastbeatdown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25i'm an american and have known for quite some time where are freedoms have gone. in the toilet.
NSA is not new, they have been watching us for a long time. wake up people.
Patriot Act anyone? Hello.
Go eat McDonald's and have some Hersey chocolate afterwards, everything will be ok. - adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -6/+30Piss on them! I just hooked the computer with my WMD plans on it to the net...I DARE THEM TO COME GET ME!! Come on bitches....
here my address...i'll help you out
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Bring it on.... - andreo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24But the sad part is:
Most will not care.
There will be a dozen lackeys on television talking about how this is good for the security of the country.
The usual group of "if your not doing any thing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about" people will tell us it's nothing to worry about.
Some story will get circulated about how this action helped catch someone that "may, somehow, thought about doing, something, that could have been a security threat" to help calm the fears of the severely under-educated and mis-informed public.
And we will be told over and over that "it's not as bad as it sounds". And "do you really think that they are taking rights away in this country?" - Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26How America has the right to call itself "The Land of the Free" anymore...
As an outsider, I have seen your freedoms erode one by one, with very few interventions.
It's time someone did something about it over there. America is getting out of hand. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Freedom died here when Bush gave the entire concept of a warrant the middle finger and no one but Russ Feingold had the balls to say anything.
- diecastbeatdown, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23stop praying and go vote damnit.
while your at it, if you feel an urge to do something useful, go protest or send a letter to every member of the government about how our rights are dissapearing. - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Dear America:
You voted for it. Want this changed? Elect officials who will stop letting the corporations do as they will. This goes for the RI/MPAA too. - nmap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22It seems as though the American people have allowed themselves to be blinkered by an oppressive media and a government that relies on fear as a method of control.
Americans have such great ideals, yet they allow their consitition to be forgotten and their freedom curtailed. - barneygumble, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20If it is not true, the documents don't need to remain sealed right? If they do remain sealed, this proves that there is observation (tapping) without court approval going on. If the records are not made public, they could be looking at one person's Internet habits, or the entire population of AT&T's customer base.
This story will become monumental if the records remain sealed. - lasermike026, on 10/12/2007, -9/+27This a serious, very very serious. This action has the ability to under mind freedom in America.
- Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Where have you been? The USA being the "land of the free" is so 20th century. The USA is the "land of the good consumer." As long as we keep guzzling gas, RIAA albums and vote republican, everything will be A-OK (in exchange, they keep the big bad gays from getting married). Canada is the current Land of the Free.
It's amazing how we (the USA) are even less progressive than South Africa now. - kremvax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17There's quite a bit more detail in the EFF brief.
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/
The class action suit that has been filed alleges that the NSA acting on the direct authorization of President Bush had begun a massive "search for suspicious activities" as early as 2001, without any notification of congress.
Time and time again, this administration has demonstrated outrageous contempt for the constitution, particularly the fourth amendment, and american justice in general.
But hey, support the president. Support the party. They know what's best for you. As Burke said, all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - pwncore, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19There's these people called Libertarians who fight every day for our rights. I happen to be one of them actually. Yet, no one listens because we get shut out by the media and don't have the money to own a network and spew propaganda like the Democrats and Republicans can. Our presidential nominees aren't even allowed to debate with the other nominees. During the last election our nominee even got arrested for trying to join a debate. Libertarians are allowed no rights because they're fighting for rights.
- ShadowNetworks, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18Our safety and rights as American people have been undermined by the even the thought of this story being true. If it does turn out to be true the American people affected by this have been gravely lied to and betrayed by their government and telecom company.
- ComputerGuru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I wholly agree.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself and the American government's overly large nose.
However, the true quote by Benjamin Franklin is:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - funk49, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16The is one of the worst kept secrets in spy circles. ALL of the carriers have had lines going into Langley for years now. I don't what people are all surprised about. Land of the free, my ass. Papers please!
P.S. If you are at Langley right now and reading this, please GARGLE MY SAC! - zaren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Suddenly it makes sense why the goverment hasn't stepped in to stop the Borging of the phone system. The more systems AT&T eats, the more the gubberment gets to monitor.
It sucks that I just signed up for AT&T DSL after waiting for years for it to before available in my area. Time to scope out some anonymizers. Good thing I read all of my important email on remote shells in pine over ssh. - nnonix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15You should always assume that any digital communication you make ANYWHERE is being monitored
- Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14How long will it be before "suspicious activites" includes being critical of your own government?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13The only thing suprising about this story is the expressions of suprise in the comments. Come on, you Americans KNOW they must have been doing this for years. Ever heard of Echelon? I mean....what on Earth did you expect? Do you think the NSA and other agencies you don't even know exist just sit there twiddling their thumbs all day. And it won't be just your internet traffic, it'll be the UK's, Europe's, Asia's, the 3rd world's etc. And not just internet over a cable, it's every form of wireless traffic you can think of too. And it's all automated, at least the primary scan will be.
It IS healthy for people to know it happens though, so that some level of public control can be brought to bear on it. But trust me, it's too important for the powers that be for a little thing like a court order to stop it. If it gets stopped through legal process, it'll just go underground, covert, or some other work around.
Live with it, but keep an eye on it. And don't be suprised anymore... - hometoast, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17I pray that this is not true. I pray its not remotely true. I have a feeling this is not even the half of it.
- Drizzit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13This does not only cover any of AT&T customers but all of AT&T's peering partners. If traffic were to cross their network it would transparently be sent across the NSA's sniffing complex. This is way bigger than carnivore. I have already complained to my representatives about this after I read this.
- pandemonium, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Link to actual EFF story: http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2006_04.php#004538
Support EFF! - ComputerGuru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I have done it.
I left the USA last year, and though freedom of speech is no gaurantee, and indeed not present, no one pretends it is.
No one else claims that their country is the "land of the free" when it's not and they know it. - jsd8cc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Even though the headline says it, nowhere in the text of TFA does it say "all" traffic.
That said, "any" traffic is still alarming. - Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11One word:
Monopoly.
They are the only providers in my area, just as Charter is the only cable provider. - drgori, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The bastards'll never find me. I have Windows Firewall enabled.
- hijinks, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14but now they have you admitting to WMDs so expect a few fbi agents to busting down your door anytime now
- manitcor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10have you ever lived in another country? I have and I must say since 9/11 there are other countries that are much more free than this one.
- spikes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11You need younger people in the govt instead of old middle/late aged farts that don't have a care in the world for todays digital society.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15You know it's true, the NSA has the computing power to handle it and sniff through it (all of it). The NSA doesn't care if you download the latest movies or plan your next murder victim. They only care about major stuff.
- info, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11http://www.eff.org/support/
- truspector, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Not to long I'm afraid. If you criticize a democrat, they say you're standing up for what is right. If you criticize the almighty George W and his army of republicans, you are being unpatriotic.
- dave_colorado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9See, it doesn't matter if you use AT&T or not. I use comcast and I still use AT&T networks, and I'm sure you do too. Look at hop 8-10.
Check out this traceroute I ran. It hits AT&T networks on the way to www.nsa.gov.
C:>tracert www.nsa.gov
Tracing route to www.nsa.gov [12.110.110.204]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 * * * Request timed out.
3 14 ms * 7 ms 68.86.105.173
4 10 ms * * 68.86.103.41
5 11 ms 9 ms 20 ms 68.86.103.182
6 10 ms 11 ms 18 ms 12.116.159.5
7 49 ms 52 ms 47 ms 12.122.80.74
8 47 ms 48 ms 50 ms tbr1-cl1886.sl9mo.ip.att.net [12.122.10.222]
9 47 ms 58 ms 46 ms tbr1-cl4.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.122.10.29]
10 45 ms 48 ms 55 ms ar1-a300s4.wswdc.ip.att.net [12.127.1.5]
11 55 ms 50 ms 50 ms 12.127.209.214
12 55 ms 55 ms 53 ms 12.110.110.131
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * ^C
C:> - Xiol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Democrats and Republicans are just as bad as each other. You need to vote in a minority party who might actually do something good for the people rather than a select few with money and power.
Of course, that'll never happen... - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Tipa said "There is a cataclysm in the future that we must, and can, avoid -- but only if the information in this document is kept secret, lest we act on that information and make the future cataclysm unavoidable."
Actually, if you had been paying attention, this whole thing has been created to steal the souls of Christians by the new anti-christ in power. A certain someone in power isn't a Christian at all and is fact only a pretender to trick 100 million Christians into worshiping a false god so that Satan actually wins during the coming Armageddon. Government agencies working to prevent the cataclysm but they are egging us on so that we end up with a Muslim superstate after we leave Iraq and Iran annexes Shiastan and builds nuclear weapons so we can that big old nuclear helfire with China and have the rapture that everyone was talking about but guess what... The plan is when those people die because they were worshiping a book instead of being decent human beings and tolerant to other humans while driving big SUVs and watching reality tv while we... errm... I mean those evil men in power get your sons and daughters to murder people who happen to actually believe in the same god you are supposed to be believing in on your own terms...
What? You thought I was being SERIOUS?! Really now... I'm not really being serious but do you really believe the government is preventing the cataclysm Tipa? Or maybe I'm hoping you are being sarcastic as well. Seriously, if our government is really supposed to stop the end of the world... WE ARE F****ING DOOMED! Get over it and live every day like it is your last and stop advocating more powerful governments.
You are more likley to die in a car acciendent anyways. Where is our War on Car Accidents? - thewise1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8How much do they pay you to interject worthless arguments like this?
Here's something that I can't do now - talk on the phone on an international phone call without running a strong risk of being wiretapped in violation of my constitutional rights.
Here's something that I can't do now - get access to an attorney if the US Government decides for some reason that I'm a terrorist. Now I don't get to seek justice for myself, even if I were guilty I wouldn't get a fair trial, but here I am a normal guy and I wouldn't get a fair/speedy trial either.
As for your good odds, I love how people say stuff like this, like they were privy to what the NSA actually does before AND after 9/11. Give me a break, you have no clue what you're talking about and no one does. All we know is what they have admitted, and if you want to bet, it's a good bet it's worse than that. - tHePeOPle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Back in 97 when I worked as a sys admin for my school I would monitor this stuff sometimes. Back then they weren't as sophisticated, and ping and trace-route would pretty much tell you what was up. It seemed that at certain points in the day, all traffic would be routed to the east coast and back to .gov addresses. Even though it added hops, it didn't seem to slow down traffic much. Of course, traffic back then wasn't anything like it is today. I'm convinced that this has been going on for a very very long time.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Why do only a few foreigners seem to realize that the NSA monitors virtually all communication around the globe?
Like it or not the US polices the globe. - agpc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8This is huge. I think Americans will be completely outraged once the public finds ou....hold on, Jessica Simpson is dating Dane Cook this week?
Who is Nick Lachey dating? Oh yeah, that skank from that MTV show....what were we talking about again? - werddrew, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9To those of you saying, "What can we do?" Let me ask you this... When was the last time you donated to the EFF. There is a group that exists solely to fight for your rights. "Defending Freedom in the Digital World."
I'm no lawyer, and I'm no politician, but I'm doing what I can via a monthly donation to a group FULL of politicians and lawyers whom I agree with. Are you? - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Since this is the great age of Apathy amongst Americans, the corporations and the government are going to walk all over us. The people do not care, so long as they get their gas, McDonald's, iPods, Desperate Housewives, Lost and sanctity of marraige.
- masterbater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Does this honestly surprise anyone? Who among the educated REALLY believes that the government and corporations have the interest of the people?
I'm sick of opening my browser to be greeted with a hundred "corrupt government" stories. We get it already. So what are we going to do to prevent it from happening again tomorrow? Citizens complain about "the system" but truly do nothing to change it. - Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I went to Canada. It was really nice there. Kinda like what the USA *should* be, just a little colder.
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