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Let's Build a Grid - Webdesign

codinghorror.com — So much web design work relies on establishing a grid and the constraints on that grid: ad sizes, display size, browser display area minus chrome, and so forth. Grids are, quite literally, everywhere. But learning how to effectively utilize grids-- without becoming a slave to them-- can make the difference between a competent layout and a great lay

Who dugg this? Made popular May 31, 2007

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  • internetslacker, on 10/11/2007, -2/+62"can make the difference between a competent layout and a great lay"

    Unfortunate truncating, that. Although if you impress a girl enough with your l33t html skills...
  • orelses, on 10/11/2007, -0/+26Is it just me or am I the only one who prefers Yahoo's design over his example?

    I think this guy is just trying to promote his website with nonsense.
  • Tempest811, on 10/11/2007, -0/+18I found the "Yeahhh" redesign to be far worse than the original Yahoo homepage. His "grid-based" remix is harder to read and feels generally more cluttered. The sections are more visually divided in yahoo's version and thus easier to read and discern. "Yeahh" is actually way less interesting and more flat.
    Obviously yahoo used a grid to do their site so I don't see why this guy is saying it needs to be implemented...I can guarantee that the people who did yahoo's site know a hell a lot more about design than this guy does.
    This article was completely worthless and taught nothing.
  • Urusai, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14It's "psych!" pronounced "sike", as in you've just psychologically manipulated (or "psyched out") your adversary. Illiterate boobs.
  • farr, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10The worst of blogspam... all he did was steal Khoi Vinn's work and write a short blurb about it. (And yes I know he credited him, but there is no reason to just stick the content in his own blog post.)

    Originals:
    http://yeeaahh.subtraction.com/ | http://www.subtraction.com/
  • wild, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11^^Thats just funny


    And grids have been a well known and established design principal for decades (centuries one could feasibly argue). And the Yahoo redesign is confusing and didn't make any visible improvements. In fact, the grid system it uses it too complex for the amount of information. You already have a million things for the eye to look at. The grid should help organize that info into a hierarchy, not add to the visual confusion by spacing everything out in even segments.
  • Winters, on 10/11/2007, -3/+11I'll never understand why blogs about website design are usually themselves basic and boring.
  • Scyth3, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10Wow, this article just screams out an old 90's word...what was it again? Oh yeah: "duh."
  • dracostimpy, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10Only 35 diggs and it's already on front page? Behold the mythological promotion power of a digg by user "kevinrose".
  • wstrucke, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6yeah, seems like your time would be better spent visiting a list apart or something.

    although it's not entirely B.S. i picked up my g/f because of my l33t html skillz
  • pigsbladder, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5although I liked yeeaaah... I don't think it's any better, infact I found it harder to read. There's too much white space or something.
  • lithuin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Yeehhh, I completely agree.
  • uberfu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Yep - the examples layout he shows to compare to Yahoo [of all things] kills his point before he gets started_

    Personally as a designer - my approach is more inherently subconscious as I'm building a layout_ I haven't actually turned on the "grid" function in an App in probably 15 years_ I did that when I first started out and more as a transition from using graph paper before before the advent of the micro-computer [desktops] came along_

    Granted I still adhere to design principles and what not but I know enough o go outside the lines when I want to and still make it "look" like I did it on purpose_ most of the best design one will ever come across - Yes can be mapped out on a grid_ That's easy make a grid and overlay it_ Resize the cells enough times and it will all match up_ But all adjacent elements are so well placed that the transitions are smooth and "invisible"_
  • justgable, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Exactly. The original author made a mistake trying to modify Yahoo's page, he should have picked a site where changes were a bit more obvious. Personally I think Yahoo does an excellent job of presenting a ton of content on one page without the user being completely lost in it.

    Also, I doubt removing one of the ads off of the page is all that great of an idea considering that ad probably brings more money in a month then most people make in a year.
  • alceria, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Wow, that article was condescending as hell.
  • samfishercell, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4If you're going to make a post extolling the virtue of breaking the grid for a "more interesting look", at least make sure it looks GOOD.

    I only hope that no one has actually taken these suggestions to heart. How did this get dugg up so high?

    Buried as inaccurate...or lame..I can't decide yet.
  • Terminator1138, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I also agree, his remix is worse than yahoo...albeit I don't care for home pages of such like msn, yahoo and others to only name a few.

    There is some truth to grid design and a good read is one of sitepoint books about good webdesign of which he mentions the same principle. Art classes teach this too so its really nothing new to webdesign and using grids.
  • mink78, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5I thought you were going to say "Psyche"
  • rodii, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@tempest811 (#6959768)
    How can you "guarantee" that? Do you know who Khoi Vinh is?
  • stockjones, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Grids were from tables, now we have divs that are set with the typical header left, body, content thing styling them with css. Everything about web layout has been a grid ( row, columns etc) unless your some uber designer trying to be special by doing some elaborate layout with chopped up background images so the layout doesn't look like a grid or youre a fanatical nut with floats.

    This is nothing new, but maybe the word "grid" will be yet another hip web 2.0 slang thing.
  • CaseyUCF, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3WTF is he trying to accomplish?
  • jdpalite, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2"Knowledge level" has nothing to do with design talent. And anyone who has real knowledge of creating successful websites would not remove one out of two banner ads on the main page of yahoo.com. I think you can probably figure out that I think the original (as it is) is a more successful design.
  • argblat, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I'm a sucker for a good redesign article .... anyone have any more good ones other than these?

    http://www.andyrutledge.com/white-house-redux.php
    http://craigslist.thebignoob.com/
    http://www.digital-web.com/articles/redesigning_the_expressionengine_site/
    http://www.airbagindustries.com/archives/005675.php
  • legendxx, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4That is horrific.. this guy is preaching design concepts and his site has less color than michael jackson
  • widoka, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2if urbandictionary is proof... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=psyche
  • Metasquares, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I was thinking "table", but that works too...
  • roseap, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2It's only exactly like the million other websites about design, that basically say "you need to have a good layout to work with before you start writing any code". Certainly important, which is why the million or so other websites came before this.

    I wish we had the feature to bury as redundant.
  • Error601, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Well, that was pointless. Who didn' t know you use grids to do layout from web pages to newspapers? Never noticed the "snap to grid" functions in every drawing program ever made?

  • OsiVert, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2The one thing that I noticed on the redesign was that everything was squished together. At least yahoo doesn't just use line separation like the redesign does. Way too cluttered to give attention to individual parts.
  • Tempest811, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@rodii
    because successful graphic designers don't sit on their asses blogging about code.
  • sosudaniel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1cool, I should also take stuff from others and compile it to a post so I can post it to digg and be special! narf.
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1When doing a web design less really is more.
    I hate complex confusing web pages, one idea one page.
    If a web page is a mess then i go somewhere else fast, sometimes even before the page is done loading.
  • thailand1972, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Why 'break' the grid layout? This is design for design's sake. Here's a concept: what about readability? Usability? Another concept: less is more. How about getting over trying to embellish everything and just keep it simple, stupid?

    And.....it makes me laugh when these uber-cool designer types spout the word 'grid' over and over instead of the naughty 'T' word which means the same thing....some people are so precious.
  • HigherLogic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@stockjones: This is nothing new, but maybe the word "grid" will be yet another hip web 2.0 slang thing.

    Man, I feel the same way. It's definitely a buzz word that's being popping up in the last year or so. Of course websites are going to follow some kind of grid, what else are you going to do, use circles and triangles to lay out your site?! Just a common sense approach to designing a website, nothing new and nothing that requires hours of learning about.
  • DannyMurphy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The problem with this article is it doesn't show the whole presentation and you need to download the pdf file that explains the lesson on the grid system and how you can use it to improve your websites communication. The real lesson is about proportions and how to create a standard consistent design that can handle large quantities of information that also structures said information due to it's importance.

    The gird system is nothing new and gets it's principles from he Golden Section, or the Divine Proportion (popularly seen in Da Vinci's Vetruvian Man). The Grid system was the principle structure that underlined the Swiss typographical movement and the marvellous designs of Josef Muller Brochmann.
  • moltar2, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2You have to consider the fact that this was a presentations and you should treat it as such. He was explaining the principles of design using a grid system. He was not trying to show off his l33t d3zign skillz. Yahoo! had probably invested hundreads of man hours into the design and to do the same for a simple presentations would be insane.
  • moltar2, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Here is an awesome tool for calculating grids: http://www.29digital.net/grid/

    Digg: http://digg.com/programming/Grid_Calculator
  • L0t3k, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The funny part is not so much that his design is less appealing (apparently it wasn't mean to be) but more that he does a disservice to his own evangelism for "grid design" by implementing a less usable, less readable version of said "grid". The new layout removes usable ad space (sorry, it's important) destroys the flow for the reader, and makes the whole site look like a mess by getting rid of row-style alignment on each page element.

    Poorly done.
  • dayama, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I dug this to remember what not to do.
  • irgeorge, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3couple of things - everyone saying 'duh' clearly doesn't understand the principles of design, there's more to a layout than deciding on '3 columns or 2', this type of grid is invisible and a whole lot more sophisticated than just lining everything up in a couple of divs. more reading: http://www.youworkforthem.com/product.php?sku=P0004

    and @ tempest811, 'this guy' is the design director for the NY times website. i think it's fair to say he knows atleast as much, if not more than, who ever cobbled together the yahoo site...
  • crossers, on 07/04/2008, -0/+0I'll might about it. I think it's ok!
    http://www.ocflex.com/
    http://www.trgovinca.org
    http://www.chasr.org/

  • Nurjle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0"The point wasn't to improve on Yahoo's design. The idea was to use the redesign to illustrate the various methods and principles that experienced designers use in grid layouts. Can you see the grid at work on this redesigned page?"

    Yes, I can. I can also see a much clearer grid working on the original page, that doesn't include bizarre tab navigation that breaks the damn grid!
  • dacoto, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Good or Bad? Not sure but thanks for the information. Always good to add to the reference links.
  • dostroyer, on 06/07/2008, -0/+0cool, I should also take stuff from others and compile it to a post so I can post it to digg and be
    ___________________________________________
    http://www.anadolujet.gen.tr http://www.yurt.gen.tr
  • crossers, on 02/25/2008, -0/+0Even though this info is not new, it might still be useful. In fact I found more regarding the grids on http://www.sitemapwriter.com as well as on http://www.robobusiness2006.com.
  • rodii, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2@legendxx (#6960348)
    What does color (or the lack of it) have to do with anything?
  • wild, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4No, its sike:
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sike

    Always was when I grew up.
  • pammit, on 10/11/2007, -6/+0You are so much smarter than us to put a link to the spelling of SIKE. You must really know what you are talking about.....

    .....PSYCHE!!

    Psyche...as in psyched out. And don't even throw the Urban dictionary at people if you aren't even going to read the definitions.

  • wild, on 10/11/2007, -14/+4I think the spelling you want is "Sike!"

    Psyche is a different thought and pronunciation entirely.

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