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- Phylter, on 01/20/2009, -41/+312Atheist Commandment: Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. There's all the morals of the world.
Don't steal
Don't lie
Don't dishonor
Don't kill
Don't hurt
Don't cheat
Aaaaaand so on. - Seminarian, on 01/20/2009, -37/+295As a religious person who is also ethical, I think I need to say something. I wasn't taught, and I didn't teach my children, to do the right thing because of divine adverse consequences for not doing so. There are some religious people, with a "strict father" view of God, who think that, but it is not correct to give that as a thumbnail sketch, as it were, of religion, or even of Judeo-Christian ethics.
Belief is a human activity. We all believe in something. Everyone has a religion, defined as a systematic theory for the nature of things, the how and why of things.
I'm not sure why anyone is taking the time to call anyone "ethically bankrupt," either for being a theist or an atheist.
I agree that a lot of religious people do bad things. So do a lot of non-religious people. It doesn't prove a thing. The solution to bad religion is not "no religion," it's better religion. One of the pagan posters says his religion is better than the one being described in the blog. Well, so is mine. My God is also benevolent. I taught my children that God is Love.
I think my children would have turned out just fine if I hadn't raised them in the church. After all, they spent like 2 hours a week at church, and every night and morning, and the whole rest of the weekend, with me. But what they got from church was community, a belief in human dignity, a sense of wonder, and a sense of having a place in the universe. They had an extended "family" that helped give them an anchor to protect them from some pretty tough changes in their lives--divorces, moves, death, and other upheavals. They also got some pretty good music education, really effective acculturation, and an opportunity to meet, and serve, people whose lives are very different from theirs, in Guatemala, on Indian reservations, and in urban ghettos. And they are very unlikely to go join a cult or be brainwashed into some kind of idiotic "true believer" situation, because they were exposed to nuanced, thoughtful, ethical, intellectually honest religious and moral education.
Do not judge all of the members of any of the world's great religions by the "great unwashed" who cling to superstition and who do what they are told, without thinking or questioning. In my denomination we encourage questions, and doubt, and wrestling with the big issues.
I'm not trying to convert anyone. I am simply asking for a more tolerant and accommodating attitude towards believers. I think I can learn something from just about anyone. It's possible that is also true for you. - manzplan, on 01/20/2009, -54/+261the problem with religion is people act a certain way ONLY because they are bribed (heaven) or threatened (hell) if they act any other way.. so their actions or lack of.. are not real or true to themselves.
- charm803, on 01/20/2009, -28/+214Ironically, I became an Atheist because I saw that religion was not moral.
- Alheithinn, on 01/20/2009, -47/+198I'm a polytheist, a Heathen. I honor the customs and traditions of my Norse ancestors. According to the wisdom of the Havamál, we recognize that it is perfectly alright to lie to a person who is lying to you. They don't deserve anything more than that.
Here is a sampling of Heathen morality:
Odinic Rite
1. Courage
2. Truth
3. Honour
4. Fidelity
5. Discipline
6. Hospitality
7. Self Reliance
8. Industriousness
9. Perseverance
Asatru Folk Assembly
1. Strength is better than weakness
2. Courage is better than cowardice
3. Joy is better than guilt
4. Honour is better than dishonour
5. Freedom is better than slavery
6. Kinship is better than alienation
7. Realism is better than dogmatism
8. Vigor is better than lifelessness
9. Ancestry is better than universalism
Northvegr Foundation
What is praiseworthy?
1. Gifting is praiseworthy.
2. Generosity is praiseworthy.
3. Moderation is praiseworthy.
4. The maintaining of frith in all circumstances is praiseworthy.
5. Courage is praiseworthy.
6. The seeking of good over ill is praiseworthy.
7. Hospitality is praiseworthy.
8. Courtesy is praiseworthy.
9. Tolerance is praiseworthy.
10. The pursuit of wisdom and knowledge is praiseworthy.
11. The defense of freedom is praiseworthy.
12. Industriousness is praiseworthy.
13. Vigilance is praiseworthy.
14. The protection, nurturing and forbearing of kin is praiseworthy.
15. Showing respect for elders is praiseworthy.
16. Loyalty to friends and kin is praiseworthy.
17. Keeping an oath is praiseworthy.
18. Honoring the sanctity of marriage is praiseworthy.
19. Refraining from mockery is praiseworthy.
2o. Refraining from arrogance is praiseworthy.
21. Making kin, honor and justice more important than gold is praiseworthy.
22. Cleanliness is praiseworthy.
23. The maintaining of one's dignity in all situations is praiseworthy.
24. Good organization is praiseworthy.
25. Persistence is praiseworthy.
26. The rule of law is praiseworthy.
27. To try ones steel against an opponent fairly is praiseworthy.
28. Respect for the dead is praiseworthy.
29. For a man to never strike a woman is praiseworthy.
30. To not abuse one's power is praiseworthy. - JenniferInMO, on 01/20/2009, -15/+144I never understood the viewpoint that without the fear of a god one cannot be moral/ethical. I think it is exactly the opposite. To me, a sense of humanity and ethics that is nurtured and contemplated become the fiber of one's being. It is an innate sense of humanity.
When a child is raised to "do the right thing" because God will strike you down if you don't that belief replaces one's sense of humanity and ethical thought. That child then believes that there is only good and evil. It removes the ability for complex thought about ethical situations. That is harmful not just to that child, but to society as a whole. Religion can a good adjunct to personal ethical philosophy, but to replace it is dangerous. - Alheithinn, on 01/20/2009, -11/+99The idea that religion is necessary for morality is not original to human thinking. The idea that Christianity in particular is necessary for morality is simply laughable, given how recently Christianity came upon the scene. This is one crazy idea that needs to be done away with, particularly in the United States where so many people seem to think that the Decalogue is not only the world's FIRST law code but the ONLY. It's nuts.
- aguita, on 01/20/2009, -1/+74Your response was well thought out and had logic to it. Why are you here on digg? :)
- inactive, on 01/20/2009, -6/+77 Great comments. Do I believe in God? It's his ground crew I don't trust.
- brstilson, on 01/20/2009, -9/+71"We act because it's pleasing and joyous to serve others."
It's the same for atheists. - SkippyDoorknob, on 01/20/2009, -32/+91So the Atheist Commandment is Matthew 7:12?
- IKORKYI, on 01/20/2009, -1/+60what you say is true, but also look at the christian crusades.
the truth seems to be that, like everything else on earth that is man made, religion isn't perfect. I am not claiming man created God, I'm only saying man created religion - and i don't think anyone but a literalist would debate it. - ElHeffe, on 01/20/2009, -37/+96"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it."
- John Adams - KublaiKhan, on 01/20/2009, -8/+67Some of the worst people I've ever met are atheists. Some of the best people I've ever met are theists.
But, you know what? Some of the worst people I've ever met are theists, and some of the best are atheists. This whole "theists are mindless sheep!" and "atheists are immoral heathens!" nonsense needs to stop: it's juvenile and counterproductive and totally outside of reality. I'm tired of being told that, since I am a Christian, I am delusional, stupid, or some other endearing term; likewise, I am tired of watching my fellow religious stick their feet in their mouths by proclaiming, in their great wisdom, that Semitic religion has claimed all rights to morality in the world. - ZenMojo, on 01/20/2009, -7/+57Stop confusing secular humanism with atheism.
- novenator, on 01/20/2009, -5/+55BURN THE WITCH!!
joking Alheithinn, I have nothing but respect for you and your beliefs. Thanks for the rites. - glitchbit, on 01/20/2009, -1/+50Adding Context
He was expressing his frustration with those who fight between denominations... not religion or Christians themselves. - oldhick, on 01/20/2009, -29/+77That's not true. Neither heaven nor hell are the motivation for many. Its having the relationship with God that is the reward, not heaven. We act because it's pleasing and joyous to serve others. It becomes joyous when you love God and your fellow man with all of your heart. A reward or punishment is inconsequential when you truly find peace and happiness.
But I can see why you would believe that and I would imagine there's some limited truth in your comment in the lives of some. I just wanted you to know that for many Christians, heaven and hell aren't the motivation, having a loving relationship with the Creator is. - inactive, on 01/20/2009, -12/+51my deity is this scrumptious cheese danish i'm eating presently. i will worship it until it's gone.
- AndrewMoyer, on 01/20/2009, -28/+66Matthew 7:12 is just common sense expectations that all humans should make of one another. I suspect those concepts and hopes for society probably existed long before they were written down in Matthew.
So perhaps, Matthew 7:12 is just a ripoff of the Atheist Commandments. - acegi, on 01/20/2009, -7/+43we don't need commandments.
just be honest and kind, that's all. - inactive, on 01/20/2009, -4/+35As does the "moral code" of those who are religious. Rarely do you find a religious person *actually* following the rules set out. More often than not, deists don't even know nor care to know their own rules.
Atheists can be (with as much backing as the religious) support their claims to morality. Morality is simply right and good conduct. If deists would like, atheists can claim their imaginary friends gave them the rules--after all, that seems to be what you deem as support for your claim. - Alheithinn, on 01/20/2009, -15/+46That's not true of Pagans, manzplan. Unreasonable fear of the divine is superstition. The gods are beneficent. And there is no bribery. For us, it is THIS life that is important. Heathens believe in cause and effect.
- Phylter, on 01/20/2009, -23/+53It's amazing that you recognize anything. Least of all an atheist expanding on a concept that existed way before christianity.
- SkippyDoorknob, on 01/20/2009, -3/+32The bribe/threat scenario is precisely the WRONG reason to follow God, but unfortunately you're right, that is what's being presented in most churches to the detriment of their followers.
- inactive, on 01/20/2009, -3/+31One size fits all, blanket statements are cheap no matter who is issuing them. You could fill a book about the variety of personality traits and, the ethical/moral qualities of both theists, and atheists; and see that good and bad is everywhere. With that in mind; these intolerant, biased, partial arguments about why certain people or ideologies are wrong are incomplete and for that alone are *****.
- StreetPreacher, on 01/20/2009, -5/+31It's typical for Christians to think that they've got a monopoly on just about any moral principal. It may shock you to learn that the "Golden Rule" is common to nearly every culture and religion, including many that predate Christianity by thousands of years.
Here's a quick list to just 20 or so examples: http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm
So exactly who's copying who now? - cschro, on 01/20/2009, -1/+26you forgot the rest of the quote!!
"Twenty times, in the course of my late reading, have I been on the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!!!!' But in this exclamation, I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in public company—I mean hell." - inactive, on 01/20/2009, -14/+37But religions ARE moral in that they all have values of one sort or another. The problem lies in the fact that many of their values are insanely inaccurate, illogical, irrational. Even a so-called "atheist" can have irrational values. The point isn't to be a theist or an atheist - the point is to form rational values based on accurate facts and logical thinking. That's the path to a sane and healthy life regardless of what label you give to yourself.
- CaptainNoPants, on 01/20/2009, -4/+25Dear Jim,
Please stop copying and pasting your story into every discussion on religion. It's getting old.
Buried. - inactive, on 01/20/2009, -2/+23He stated the things that are involved in the "do unto others" rule..how is that venomous?
- snkscore, on 01/20/2009, -3/+23Are you dumb?
No atheist believes in Satan. - CeruleanRed, on 01/20/2009, -4/+23MrErr,
You are wrong. There were many ancient Atheists, even Greek Atheists. Diagoras of Melos being the first to come to mind.
Although not proving anything, it is interesting to note that Atheism, as an absence of belief in gods, is possibly (if not probably) a more ancient philosophy than any religion. Anytime someone said, "hey, superstition is absurd" - there's your Atheist. (Who, after such utterance, was then likely to experience a painful death at the hands of the "godly."
Humanity has a well documented aptitude for faith in absurdities. 400 years before Jesus was born Diagoras was mocking the idea of Hercules' divinity. Diagoras is as right today as he was then, it's just the religions that change. Maybe 3000 years from now Atheists will be arguing there is no Hypnotoad or [insert deity here]. - bpoteat, on 01/20/2009, -11/+30@MrErr: You are wrong. A disbelief in God or any other mythical puppetmaster started and was very prevalent from about 400 to 600 BC in the area around the Ionian islands. This entire time was one of the most prolific of scientific advancement ever known and pretty much represents the start of science as we know it. It was the first time people started thinking that the sun and moon might not be Gods, that the world was not randomly ruled by some all-knowing being but instead that it's behavior had natural rules that could by learned by observation and experiment.
- dvpower, on 01/20/2009, -5/+23Theres atheist commandments now?
Where did it all go wrong? - UNCCEJ1010, on 01/20/2009, -2/+20If he's a good surgeon, I couldn't care less about what he believes.
- emailowndme, on 01/20/2009, -2/+19There was nothing hateful there.
- IKORKYI, on 01/20/2009, -0/+17no way
if everyone thought that, my hopes for seeing ryan seacrest getting punched in the face on live tv is dead. - sv650touring, on 01/20/2009, -3/+20English, lostlyrics, do you speak it?
- dazparkour, on 01/20/2009, -4/+2129. For a man to never strike a woman is praiseworthy.
Sexist!
Your either an equal sex and we can hit you back or your a weaker sex and we shouldn't hit you back.
Personally, I go with no one hitting anyone. - alexawesome, on 01/20/2009, -0/+16Remember who the Norse raiders were, though. The Nordic lands were overpopulated and didn't have a lot in the way of jobs or land ownership to offer young men. The alternative was to steal and pillage as pirates - not exactly a moral pursuit to begin with.
Your statement is on par with saying, "well, yes, but your criminals didn't obey your moral code." Incidentally, the sky is blue and water's wet. - Zippo, on 01/20/2009, -2/+18The basic morals of humanity span this world, regardless of religion. Religion only became a powerful excuse to follow what should be common sense.
- BlueSun420, on 01/20/2009, -2/+17Satan doesn't exist.
There, now you've heard an atheist deny it's existence. - CanTheSpam, on 01/20/2009, -5/+19"all of them are crimes, which makes them ethical violations."
No. No. No. - manicleek, on 01/20/2009, -2/+16Are you saying people had no morals until religion came along?
- Atomic05, on 01/20/2009, -0/+13I agree with you and think those are fine rules to follow, but that's not what atheism is about and you're adding to the problem of confusing atheism with religion.
Atheism is exactly what it means. Non-theism. There is nothing else to it. Any morals or personal beliefs that come after that should have absolutely no direct correlation. If you're looking for a system of morals that coincides with atheism I would suggest looking into humanism, but don't muddle the issue by implying that atheism is anything except for a lack of belief in higher powers. - MrColdheart, on 01/20/2009, -0/+13There are no Atheist commandments...
- CardHockman, on 01/20/2009, -3/+16so what bearing does this have on ethics again?
a. god is omnipotent
b. god created everything
c. there is evil in the world
therefore, god created evil, therefore, god is malevolent - Km4P, on 01/20/2009, -0/+13@dwiezel: What do you mean learn your history? You doubting Hitler's faith does not make it historical fact.
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