What is Digg?155 Comments
- reddfox321, on 09/06/2008, -2/+28I'm from the states and I remember my advisor in high school telling me I should think about finding a "secure job with good benefits" instead of going to college. If I had listened to him I wouldn't have gotten my EE degree. To this day it boggles me how he came to the conclusion that a B+ student active in sports with no behavioral issues shouldn't consider college.
Then I remember I'm black. - bachdog, on 09/06/2008, -5/+23There's this thing called the 'Pygmalion Effect" where if the teacher treats the kid *as if* he were the most gifted and able student, he will live up to this expectation, and they've proven it again and again. I'm sure it works the other way around too. If the teacher expects little from a student based on prejudgment or generalizations based on race or social status, students will tend to live down to that expectation. Pay teachers more to attract talented people.
- hitkaiser, on 09/06/2008, -4/+23"White pupils were significantly more likely to be entered for the top tiers than their black Caribbean, Pakistani, black African and Bangladeshi classmates."
So basically they list ethnic minorities and make it look like only white people can succeed... BUT :
From the same newspaper:
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2007/feb/16/sc ...
"Pupils of Chinese origin have outperformed every other British group in English by the age of 11, a new government analysis of exam results reveals.
Schoolchildren of Indian origin come second..."
"... Similar levels of performance continue through to GCSE level, where 65.8% of Chinese-origin pupils obtain five A*- to C-grade passes, including in maths and English. Pupils of Indian origin also outperform the white British."
Sure, they are reporting the "truth", but by missing out on such details they give a bias story. - battleangel7, on 09/06/2008, -6/+24A few years ago I had a job installing computers is every classroom in the city school system. Inner city school system.
We went out to install at one school and some kid dumped a milk shake on my coworkers head from the 2nd story.
Once we got all the computers installed we had to start taking service calls on the computers because the little angels would steal the little ball out of the mouse.
You can throw money at bad education all day.
It won't matter. - sonycam, on 09/06/2008, -4/+17Chinese students are seen to succeed more than white students. Does this mean that institutional racism is holding back white students or is it ok because it's a minority which is succeeding?
- gozroth, on 09/06/2008, -2/+13madness?....... THIS IS RACISM!
- dstz, on 09/06/2008, -0/+8The article debunks you, see:
"But for a significant proportion of Black Caribbean pupils, there was no academic explanation for them being excluded from the harder papers.
Dr Steve Strand from Warwick University, the author of the study, said: "After accounting for all measured factors, the under-representation is specific to this one ethnic group and indicates that, all other things being equal, for every three white British pupils entered for the higher tiers, only two black Caribbean pupils are entered."'
Say if you don't agree with me, I'm open to evaluation. - Aitese, on 09/06/2008, -0/+8@sfaiku
Seeing as you don't know anything about the British education system and you're making assumptions to fit your erroneous point I'll explain for you.
Here in the UK we attend secondary school from the ages of 11 to 16. In the final two years we study for and take our final GCSE (General Certificate of Secondary Education) exams. In the final year it is entirely up to the teacher of each subject who is entered into which exam. The point of this article is that black students who up until the exams are performing at the same level of their white counterparts are NOT being entered into the higher tier exams as the white kids. Nothing to do with behaviour, nothing to do with parental permission, nothing to do with the students interest level. So, now you know that, stop making an ass of yourself with your pseudo intellectual analysis of situations you know nothing about. - sonycam, on 09/06/2008, -4/+12I think the vast majority of it comes down to the parents. My friends of Asian background tend to have extremely dedicated, strict parents who place education extremely high on the agenda. This *generally* isn't the case with the majority of black parents for whatever reason. I don't see how it can be racist if you've got some minorities doing far better than the majority, the word 'racism' is thrown around too casually nowadays and out of context.
- reddfox321, on 09/06/2008, -0/+8"Black Caribbean pupils are being subjected to institutional racism in English schools."
- dstz, on 09/06/2008, -1/+8Ah! unapologetic racism at last. You know, that's the mindset expressed in the most digged comments here. But you will be digged down since you didn't wrap your thoughts into enough:
"the majority of the blame goes to the culture of indifference towards education"
or
"The data may be accurate, but I think the conclusion is questionable"
or
"Sure, they are reporting the "truth", but by missing out on such details they give a bias story" - bduddy, on 09/06/2008, -1/+8You clearly didn't read the article. The article stated that black children were not being entered by their teachers to take higher-level tests ~even when academic and behavioral factors were accounted for~. Because you're obviously too lazy to read the relevant part of the article, I'll paste it here:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Most of the differences were explained by the pupils' previous results or by other factors which might have put them at a disadvantage, such as the level of education reached by their mothers, entitlement to free meals, and truancy and exclusion - all strong predictors of academic success.
But for a significant proportion of Black Caribbean pupils, there was no academic explanation for them being excluded from the harder papers.
Dr Steve Strand from Warwick University, the author of the study, said: "After accounting for all measured factors, the under-representation is specific to this one ethnic group and indicates that, all other things being equal, for every three white British pupils entered for the higher tiers, only two black Caribbean pupils are entered." - Diggnabbit, on 09/06/2008, -0/+7Has they?
- ZenMojo, on 09/06/2008, -0/+6I've got plenty of these stories being a black kid in America.
When I was in elementary school, I used to act out a lot. My teachers were seriously considering putting me into special education. Now, for the most part, this confused the hell out of me. There was no way I was on the level of a literally drooling young girl who couldn't form complete words.
Finally one day, while I'm sitting in the office, this oddly-dressed old woman comes in and asks me to take a test. Turns out I'm a super-genius.
Surprise, it turns out that when gifted children are frustrated by the inability of classrooms to keep up with their interests and intellectual levels they lash out at their educators and authority because of BOREDOM.
Their solution was to put me in special education? I was a ***** HAIR from growing up a disaffected sociopath because no one bothered to think, "Hey, this kid reads at an eight grade level at 6 years old and gets the highest grades in his class, maybe we shouldn't stick him in ***** special education?" Their first response was instead, "You've got a black kid acting up in class. Can we get rid of him?"
Hell, I was a top 10 student in high school, the only National Merit Scholar, and an AP scholar and when I told my guidance counselor I was going to Princeton she responded, "That's nice. It's good that you want to go there. Now talk to me when you actually get accepted to a school."
I learned everything I need to know about institutional racism. When the system doesn't stop at ignoring you but actually takes steps to keep you down despite all of the evidence being there for an alternative explanation, someone is bound to fall through the cracks. Every damn day I think about how close I got. - lordving, on 09/06/2008, -3/+9oh man...wow what a spot on analysis. Your one situation with a little infantile idiot dumping a milk shake on your computers is TOTALLY representative of ALL black children. OF COURSE kids in suburban white schools NEVER do mischievous things!!!
- hmunkey, on 09/06/2008, -0/+6If teaching our kids to be forward thinkers and open-minded is institutionalized liberalism, we need more of it.
- sfaiku, on 09/06/2008, -17/+22Nothing in the article shows that lower success of black Caribbean students is caused by 'institutional racism' rather than other factors, such as lower regard for education by students' parents, for example.
- rz8472, on 09/06/2008, -1/+7Neil DeGrasse Tyson. He 'killed off' Pluto as a planet.
- zennie62, on 09/06/2008, -2/+8What do you mean. It's all rhere, perhaps you can' t take the truth?
- rushjaycarr, on 09/06/2008, -1/+6Black kids aren't doing so well, so OBVIOUSLY the teachers must be racist.
Sorry, I'm not following the logic here. - robinthehood, on 09/06/2008, -0/+5That's the thing with institutional racism though, it's rarely overt.
- sonycam, on 09/06/2008, -1/+6Aka Parenting.
- battleangel7, on 09/06/2008, -1/+6FTA....."...in English schools.."
Moron. - bduddy, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4It's depressing when I can read the comments and pick out the more than half that are just reading the title, not the actual article. Obviously clicking on a link is too much for you people, so I'll just paste the relevant part, again:
Most of the differences were explained by the pupils' previous results or by other factors which might have put them at a disadvantage, such as the level of education reached by their mothers, entitlement to free meals, and truancy and exclusion - all strong predictors of academic success.
But for a significant proportion of Black Caribbean pupils, there was no academic explanation for them being excluded from the harder papers.
Dr Steve Strand from Warwick University, the author of the study, said: "After accounting for all measured factors, the under-representation is specific to this one ethnic group and indicates that, all other things being equal, for every three white British pupils entered for the higher tiers, only two black Caribbean pupils are entered." - inactive, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4Maybe if their idiot parents would teach them some ***** respect for their fellows, it wouldn't fall on the schools to do so.
- KDX200rider, on 09/06/2008, -0/+4I hope you were joking, otherwise you sound like a complete asshat. Dugg down as really stupid.
- inactive, on 09/06/2008, -6/+10Have you ever been to a school with Caribbean black kids?
I have (10% Haitian school). Which is why I don't believe this article at all. - swordphish, on 09/06/2008, -3/+6George Washington Carver ring a bell?. They probably don't mention him too often in the history / science books. Besides, in remembrance of a continuing culture of white rape of colored minds, we all know the significant scientists stole their work/ideas from their black friends. :P
- thegrantman, on 09/06/2008, -3/+6How many times has this type of study come up? How many parties recieve the blame beside the student?(teachers,classmates,society,poverty,etc.) These may contribute slightly to the problem;the majority of the blame goes to the culture of indifference towards education.Value education and you will do well.
- inactive, on 09/06/2008, -5/+8Nigerians can make good mathematicians if they stop using their brains on scamming.
- Barackalypse, on 09/06/2008, -2/+5Most telling line is at the end, "In 2005 there were twice as many black men in prison in the UK than in universities".
- Aitese, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4Again...read the ***** article, realise how wrong you are and then take some time out to explore your own prejudices...the ones that made you ignore the facts just so you could dismiss the article.
- dstz, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4Read the article, it's talked about. Specially the part "After accounting for all measured factors," roll eyes.
And that's Palin that's accused of racism, mind boggles when 85% of Diggers display racist attitudes oh so often, like by not reading an article and having their own mind set well before. - inactive, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3I'm a scientist too.
Appeal to authority isn't an argument. - Aitese, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Are you talking about the UK or the US...because I think you didn't read the article.
- Aitese, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3OK, seeing as the majority of Digg users are too lazy to READ articles but decide to make sweeping statements based solely on the title I'll explain some things for you.
1. This is about the UK
2. This is not about kids who misbehave or are doing badly academically...this is about black kids performing to the same level as their white counterparts who are STILL excluded from the higher tier exam papers.
3. Parental involvement has nothing to do with it...the teachers have 100% final say on who gets to enter which exams.
So, all your talk about some black kids in the US ghetto, black kids misbehaving more than other kids, parents not being involved and all the other sweeping generalizations you guys have decided to spew...totally irrelevant. - Diggnabbit, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3So?
- Lc5827, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Nuclear Scientist Dr. Lloyd Quarterman who in 1945 was awarded a certificate of appreciation by the U.S.Secretary of War for work essential to the production of the Atomic Bomb. He had worked with some of the world's greatest scentists, including Einstein, when he was at Columbia University, New York. Dr. Quarterman did his quantum mechanics in 1948 under the Columbia University's famous Italian scientist Enrico Fermi and went on to the Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois where scientists made the first reactor for the Nautilus, the atomic powered submarine. Apart from being a fluoride chemist and a radioactive chemist, Dr. Quarterman was a spectroscopist who studies the composition of elements in our universe that are either invisible or elusive or obscure to us and divised a new window, which came to be known as 'the diamond window.'
He had been a champion football player at St. Augustine's College in Raleigh, North Carolina, who granted him an Honorary Doctorate in Science for a lifetime of achievement. He is a member of the Society of Sigma Xi, the Scientific Research Society of American, the American Chemical Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
There are also Colonel Frederick Gregory, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Test Pilot School who designed a 'single-hand' controller that combines both throttle power control as wellas control over roll and pitch, physicist Dr. Ronald E. McNair, one of the seven astronauts who died in the Challenger explosion, Dr. Christine Darden an Aerospace Engineer who was the leading NASA researcher in supersonic and hypersonic aircraft with expertise in the areas of reducing sonic boom and who was in the High-Speed Aerodynamics Division at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, and Dr. George Carruthers who developed a special gold-plated camera which enabled space explorers to study and record plaetary and astronomical phenomena from the moon, and Dr. Elmer Imes and other African-Americans who have played roles in the emerging multi-discipline of the space sciences. SOURCE: Blacks in Science: Ancient and Modern, edited by Ivan Van Sertima (Transaction Books: New Brunswick (U.S.A.) and London (U.K.) 1986. - inactive, on 09/07/2008, -0/+3From Wikipedia:
"Liberalism is a broad array of related ideas and theories of government that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.[1] Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment.
Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Different forms of liberalism may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy, and a transparent system of government.[2] All liberals — as well as some adherents of other political ideologies — support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law."
Liberalism founded your country, moron. Show a little respect. - inactive, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3True. Though, the Asian groups have seen the pampering, attention and -- ahem -- money the blacks are getting and are starting to make some noise.
- Diggnabbit, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4Right... because that has NOTHING to do with a history of refusing to allow black people any sort of education.
- guntario, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Right... that's not racist.
- VBDon, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4For 40 years, the ultra-left has been promoting artificial racial equality to compensate for the inability of blacks to compete with whites in academic and technical fields. 40 years of indoctrinating teachers in the liberal mantra of, they are sub-equal so we need to compensate for them philosophy has come home to roost. When our society recognizes that blacks and other minorities are every bit capable of performing equally with whites, and demanding the same, this problem will disappear.
- skinny01, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4But that isn't what's being talked about. You can give a child that doesn't care any opportunity and they'll fail. What we're talking about is when things are equal, you have a smart black child who isn't given opportunities that an equally smart white child would just because of the preconceived notion that the black child can't/won't do well. Contrary to popular belief, education is pushed a lot in the black community, you just don't see that on tv. Unfortunately it just doesn't succeed because the schools in the black neighborhoods suck so the kids that do want to get an education and have the potential to do really well don't get a chance.
We had to pull our children out of the local school where the teachers actually said that they don't teach them spelling?! They don't teach them the rules of how letters go together, they just teach them the actual words so that they can recognize them. But change one letter in the word, they can't pronounce it because they don't recognize it. That's the education our kids get in schools, just enough to ensure they'll be burger flippers forever. In that school, our children were not doing well. Luckily we got them taken out and put into a charter school which had a much harder curriculum and our kids excelled there because they actually taught them in that school. That school was better in that sense but still lacking so now we're home-schooling them.
Kids will live up to the expectations you set for them. When you treat them like they won't ever succeed and that they're always the dumbest ones in school or work, they live to that social conditioning. It isn't always the fault of the kid or the parents. We push our kids hard, I teach at college, my wife now home schools our kids. When I graduated from college with 2 degrees and honors from the top school in the country in my field, I couldn't even get a job working as a cashier at a gas station. I wasn't considered for anything in the city I was living in that wasn't a McJob.. This had nothing to do with how my family views education, my mother pushed it hard. I got straight A's and B's in Honors and Gifted and Talented classes all through school, and graduated high school in the top 5% of my class. I went to college, did well, graduated with 2 degrees but I still get daily harassment from police for no reason. I started consulting on my own because on the job I'd keep getting put underneath others that I had MUCH more experience than, consistently. I would think that my 10 years of real world experience would trump the fresh graduates whole 6 months of experience but for some strange reason, nope. They get to manage the project while I'm placed as the worker bee. So I have to follow along and do things the wrong way because when I suggest other more appropriate ways of proceeding, I appear like I can't deal with authority or go along with the program. When I make a suggestion, it isn't listened to because my credibility just isn't recognized. I have to wait for "someone else" to say the EXACT same thing later on, then it's a good idea and everyone jumps on board with no problems. But it just is never good enough when it comes from my mouth. That comes from the preconceptions.
People like to point at asians and how they do so well. People leave them alone, that's why they do well. They fly under the radar and aren't socially attacked the way blacks are. So they're free to develop the way their parents set them up for. They get to be the best that they can be. Blacks don't get that consideration so a black person can be the smartest, hardest working, most dedicated person in the room and it's automatically assumed that they aren't as good and don't have potential so when the time comes to choose who's going to be considered for the promotion or given more important responsibility, that guy gets overlooked.
Many of the blacks that you see that don't care are like that because throughout their life they've been through that so many times that they give up since they've done everything possible. When you try hard and push academically and you see that no matter what you do, you can't change your position, you start to see it as a waste of your time since there's nothing else you can possibly do. At least when you go to the gym or play sports, nobody can deny what you've done, your body will change if you lift weights, if you block a shot, it's blocked and every body can see it. In the academic field or at work, much of what you do can be denied if other peoples eyes aren't open enough to see it. If people don't already think you could be a leader, they won't see the wisdom in your words to listen and you won't ever get to lead. Not saying it's like that 100% of the time, but more often it is than isn't. - dstz, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2Who gives which bias please? are you speaking of the submission's tittle?
Also:
"But for a significant proportion of Black Caribbean pupils, there was no academic explanation for them being excluded from the harder papers.
Dr Steve Strand from Warwick University, the author of the study, said: "After accounting for all measured factors, the under-representation is specific to this one ethnic group and indicates that, all other things being equal, for every three white British pupils entered for the higher tiers, only two black Caribbean pupils are entered."'
What's false in that? - KDX200rider, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2I can't believe two of you could have responded to this morons comment. Hey Asshat you did not even read the article, it was about the UK.
Yup. . stupid to the bone. - psyclonic, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2little in this world of humans is more powerful than the self-fulfilling prophecy
- GoatMonkey2112, on 09/06/2008, -1/+3Well, that affects everyone. I wonder if it matters what color their iris is.
- artfiend77, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2@ AchaIemoipas
You're totally right about the Haitian community, but they are making some changes, as best as they can with as much as they can. I dare you to go to teh HEC, or Poly Technique, or Mcgill, and tell any Haitian people there that there's a problem with their community and education.
And you're right again, there's a difference between being biased against and just blaming everyone else for your mistakes. - KDX200rider, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2Did you read the article? The study only mentioned black Caribbeans, not all black students. I think your reaction to the story show some serious bias of your own.
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