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73 Comments
- granolajoe, on 02/05/2009, -15/+95Like someone said in the comments, "gaming" is a loaded phrase. Instead of rehashing points to illustrate this, I'll just post this comment from the page:
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James February 5, 2009 10:47 am
You may want to read over the Terms of Service on Digg. It is NOT against the terms of service to submit your own content, as long as the community likes it and it’s not blatant spam. So, if what you say is true… then they have done nothing unethical.
From my perspective, all you did with this post is confirm what a great job Village Voice has done in transitioning over to Web 2.0. If you don’t realize the potential behind sites like digg, stumbleupon and twitter, then you’re gonna fall behind in the times. Wouldn’t you want 19.4 Million Visitors?
And if you really think this is horrible, then you should also look into the Chicago Tribune, LA Times, Boston Globe, and Dallas News… because they all have people actively submitting to these sites. I’m sure there’s a few others as well.
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I don't understand - am I supposed to be outraged because a company's content is doing well on Digg and other sites? As a Digg user am I supposed to bust out my torch and pitchfork and start a witch-hunt for these guys?
Screw that. The quality of the articles that come from these publications is great, and they've been publishing fun, humorous and interesting content since way before social news sites were around. Their stuff is made for it.
I'm a Denver resident and been reading the Westword for years. They've been publishing articles and columns with a funny, straightforward and streetwise journalism style for decades. I'm proud to see the Westword's content doing well on social sites and glad that it's getting some exposure to the rest of the country and the world.
All I see in this article is someone wanting to cause trouble without explaining how gaming is taking place (they're certainly not buying Diggs, and it takes more than a small staff in a building to make something go popular) and tell us what we already know - that Digg traffic doesn't convert and make people money. - Bukowsky, on 02/06/2009, -7/+54Does anybody else find it ironic (and a bit hypocritical) that he cuts down this company for using social media sites to get web-traffic... and then turns around and gets exposure for this post by submitting it to those same exact social media sites he slams Village Voice for using?
- haystack, on 02/05/2009, -16/+56granolajoe, I'm the author of this story. Question for you: Do you believe that stories on the front page of Digg are there because they're the best content on the web, or because teams of people are sitting around their cubes at work reciprocally digging their way to the top?
- haystack, on 02/05/2009, -3/+20I don't spend a lot of time on Digg, but I think I have a good feel for how the system works. If I wanted to be influential on Digg, I'd build out a huge friend network, Digg all of my new friend's submissions, selectively submit stories, and tip off my friends about those stories WITHOUT using the shout feature. Sound about right?
In the cases of Philostrato and IvanB, their success seems to come, in part, due to their large networks of users they continually recirprotate diggs for.
At the rate they Digg stories, it's darn clear that they're not reading the stuff they're Digging. And surely they don't care if their typical follower reads things either. They just work together to get the snowball rolling.
Because of this, there is no guarantee that the things they're digging are any good. I'm sure they put some thought into selecting stories for submission that they think have frontpage potential. Not that they're particularly great content, but the headline is something that could front-page. - ThinkBox, on 02/06/2009, -7/+23Digg is gamed constantly by low quality sites like Huffington Post and ANYTHING on the Gawker news network.
- AnotherDiggGuy, on 02/06/2009, -3/+19This isn't all that shocking.
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/huffingtonpost.co ...
How do you think TheHuffingtonPost went from ~1 million visitors a month to ~5 million visitors in a years time? It sure as hell wasn't through quality work. - inactive, on 02/05/2009, -8/+23I trust the `Voice´ at least as much as I trust Digg. No, really.
- inactive, on 02/05/2009, -6/+19Here is another example of how to game Digg: (lobbyware with optional software installation, alert popups, and automated voting)
http://digg.com/world_news/Lobbyware_used_to_front ...
Guess who is there in those comments trying to bury that article already! - granolajoe, on 02/05/2009, -7/+20Some content makes it because it's well-received and meant to front-page, or is breaking news and receives a lot of attention. Other times it's because someone with a lot of pull and a great following submitted it. Unfortunately, some content is garbage and is forced to the front page through gaming.
There's not one definitive answer to the question.
Also, judging from your profile, it seems you haven't spent enough time on the site to really understand how a story makes it to the front page.
A team of people at work would have to be quite massive and concentrated to push something to the front page. Not only that, but multiple people from the same location and IP range could potentially raise flags for Digg admins.
The reason Philostrato and IvanB do so well is probably a mixture of having a considerable list of friends and are also submitting content that diggers outside of their friends list like enough to digg. - notmtwain, on 02/05/2009, -4/+16This story hit Fark's main page at 3:59PM.
One Farker was really impressed with the pie charts. - DigiDave, on 02/06/2009, -1/+13@AmyVernon
It is very different IF either of these diggers are making money of using Digg ie: if they are paying them for front page stories.
For most people Digg is something to do in their spare time. I suspect now there are a lot of people who do it because it makes them extra money. That monetary motivation is much stronger that what motivates your average hobbyist - but it has also crowded the space and made it less fun.
I agree there is nothing wrong with shooting a few links around to your friends. But there is something wrong with paying someone who then spends hour after hour after hour shooting that link around. The level playing field that digg offered now goes to the highest bidder.
Hell - soon companies will start outsourcing their Digg-biddings. - darkchild82, on 02/06/2009, -4/+13"Just for fun, I’m going state the obvious: The Digg user Philostrato is NOT a she, but a he (pictured on the right here and left here). Philostrato is a he by the name of Keith Plocek, whose work titles are:
* Social Media Manager at Village Voice Media
* Web Editor at Houston Press"
Social Media Manager? Sheesh... it's become that big a deal? - pintocat, on 02/06/2009, -4/+13Hey, at least they're adding something besides C&H, XKCD, or the cracked.com.
- dsarnoLAT, on 02/06/2009, -8/+15@haystack: I write for the LA Times and we frequently have stories on Digg. Several of us have built up accounts on the site, both to learn about and participate in this new(ish) form of media amplification, and because it's a good way to drive traffic back to our content. It's not a lot different, in my opinion, than building a strong Twitter account for self promotion, or even trying to sell copies of our own newspaper on the street.
Digg not only allows media sites to submit and digg (two distinct actions in the parlance) their own stuff, but encourages them to--via outreach, partnerships and other types of relationships. Of course it's always a good idea to be transparent about who's digging and submitting what, but ultimately it's just a forum, imperfect as it may be, for spreading information.
Like any system, the people that have spent more time learning about it and using it are able to wring more utility out of it than those who haven't. Your question above seems to imply that you think some, most or all of the content that becomes 'popular' on Digg might not deserve to be, but as granolajoe says, that's an oversimplification. There's plenty of detritus and silliness that makes it to the front, but there's also a lot of hard news and interesting analysis. So to paint it all with a broad brush is, I think, too easy.
If you're looking for a real controversy-maker, you might check in to whether some of Digg's top users are accepting payment or kickbacks from sites to promote their content -- the forbidden practice of 'Diggola'. (http://digg.com/tou).
Other than that, most people are using the system as designed. "Gaming" implies cheating, and even if people are digging a lot without reading the stories, there's no rule that forbids that, for better or worse. - AmyVernon, on 02/06/2009, -5/+12@Bukowsky - I thought the same thing.
- AmyVernon, on 02/06/2009, -3/+9@haystack - I just wonder what makes them any different than many other publications. I can't imagine they're the only chain that's figured out Digg. And if they are, then the entire media industry is in far worse shape than any of us thought.
- haystack, on 02/05/2009, -5/+10Because, as I explained in my article, they're serving ads from local advertiser's business against national and international traffic acquired from Digg. Without that, it's not much of a story.
- UselessTrivia, on 02/06/2009, -3/+8It's called a presidential election cycle.
- COINTELPROAgent, on 02/06/2009, -9/+14Sadly this is just one example of the ***** that goes on around here. I have nearly 500 fans who I refuse to friend, all of them spammers and mass blind diggers. That's a hell of a lot.
Both the spamming and the multiple user accounts have grown out of the control of Digg staff, and they know it too. It's their own fault for not cracking down at the very beginning on Paulspammers, "power users", and the "white power" neo-nazi hate freaks that hang out here.
Banning means nothing here. They just come right back under a different ip and a new account. - stonewaljacksn, on 02/06/2009, -2/+7HuffPo "gamed" the living hell out of this site by these standards during the election and this oerson's bitching about the village voice?
Digg is a propaganda outlet. If it is your only news source then...well, ur only getting half of the story.
Deal with it. - Branchex, on 02/06/2009, -5/+9No, as long as he does not game the system he is doing nothing wrong or hypocritical.
- sgtbutterscotch, on 02/06/2009, -2/+6It might be ironic, but that doesn't make it wrong.
- granolajoe, on 02/05/2009, -4/+8So essentially, you're making the same argument that has been made about any and all power users on the site, whether correct or not.
So why make claims about supposed networks of cubicle monkeys in Village Voice offices clicking away to front-page success? - dinosaurtrader, on 02/06/2009, -2/+5What bothers me about this is that Digg is supposed to be content made popular from the ground up. If more content is pushed upon Digg users by newspapers and corporations beholden to their advertising interests I think that content will begin to lose credibility.
-DT - haystack, on 02/06/2009, -0/+3@Bukowsky, it is kind of ironic to see this story do so well on social media sites.
For the record, I didn't submit it to any social media sites. - ogletree, on 02/06/2009, -1/+4Their is an entire industry built around gaming digg and sites like it. There are people that get paid very well to get stuff to the top of digg.
- haystack, on 02/06/2009, -2/+5@dsarnoLAT I think this is a story because they're serving local business' ads against this type of traffic.
- Idrive, on 02/06/2009, -4/+6You hit the nail on the head...I could give a ***** less about who submits what. I am just an average user...I may come across something a few times a month and submit it but I am here daily checking out the articles on the site. The reason I come back daily is because I find intersting videos, news articles, etc. to check out...if they weren't interesting I wouldn't come back. The Digg community of users decide what is dugg up and what is buried...if you don't like something don't digg it....who the hell cares who submitted it...
- inactive, on 02/06/2009, -1/+3lets just say mid 5 figures...
- smacksaw, on 02/06/2009, -1/+3I friend them just to get a heads-up on who is actually cool that I can see in comments and who is a total spammer. Do as I do - bury spammers by knowing who they are since they shout you.
- thudson, on 02/06/2009, -4/+6Well stated, original commenter.
The only circumstance where this could cross into the gray area is if Village Voice misleads advertisers into thinking all of the traffic is locally generated traffic.
I applaud Village Voice for embracing sites like Digg to get exposure to its sometimes overlooked publications. - DigiDave, on 02/06/2009, -2/+4@dsarnoLAT
I'm not accusing the diggers mentioned in this article of it. In fact, I am friends with one of them and we've chatted a lot in the past.
But as a reporter.... aren't you a little suspicious that this IS a case of payola...... - BigMiller, on 02/06/2009, -2/+4The server at www.thedeets.com is taking too long to respond.
- wracker92, on 02/06/2009, -1/+3And if you believe it was just that, HuffPo has a bridge to sell to you.
- str3ama, on 02/07/2009, -1/+3I said this so long ago when HoustonPress had 2 back to back articles that were just slideshows of about 100 photos or so, something that would never have made the frontpage because it required reloading the page 100 or moreso times to go through the set. Also the site went from literally obscure to suddenly extremely popular with only recent submissions - as in no previous articles submitted from the site.
- dbldn, on 02/06/2009, -1/+3Unfortunately, the digg that was created and was here at the beginning has eroded away. There is no going back to the ideal. There is just adapting to what is.
- RandomNetUser, on 02/06/2009, -4/+6There's a simple solution to this: If you don't like the article, don't read it. Spend more time looking through the Upcoming section.
- whoizthedrizzle, on 02/06/2009, -1/+2dugg for saying nefarious
- cl2yp71c, on 02/06/2009, -1/+2THEY SHALL NOT PASS!
- BobSacamana, on 02/06/2009, -0/+1Citypages, vita.mn is the stribs rag
- Odaecom, on 02/05/2009, -1/+2That's where I found it.
Fark and Foobies makes the world go round. - torrentfreak, on 02/07/2009, -0/+1We appreciate your support Flavor ;)
- MattJhsn, on 02/06/2009, -0/+1Question: CityPages or Vita.MN?
- LeaveMomAlone, on 02/06/2009, -0/+1Here's an excerpt from the TOU (#9):
"...or participating in any other organized effort that in any way artificially alters the results of Digg's services..."
Kind of vague, and it's not 100% clear that's what's going on here, but I think if they have several employees digging these posts, that qualifies. Though, I admit I'm new, so I don't have a good idea of how this has been interpreted in the past. - pensivewombat, on 02/07/2009, -1/+2political site gets bump during historic election, breaking news! fivethirtyeight.com did an analysis of the traffic to various political sites before during and after the election and all of them experienced spikes to varying degrees, but nothing suggested anything other than increased interest in the election.
- Flavor, on 02/06/2009, -0/+1I don't care as long as at least three torrentfreak stories reach the front page every day, because you know it's all about their rights to free speech and such .... yea, and you know those file stealers know how to cover their tracks.
Digg is indeed broken, but I'll still read (and click bury on those that are 'gaming'). - wilson316, on 02/06/2009, -1/+1So they are gaming dig hits like Cracked.com does....oh well......
- davelog, on 02/15/2009, -0/+0Just for giggles, I turned my adblock off and went to village voice (ny) from phoenix, and I got ads for phoenix. Seems like local advertisers would benefit from this, not the opposite.
Now then, back to what's important - adblock ON! - SuperVepr308, on 02/06/2009, -1/+1I had a feeling that the average Digg user was not as in love with HuffPo as the FP would have you believe.
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