What is Digg?52 Comments
- canewediggit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+76note to artists- move into the 21st century and realize you don't need the labels. produce your own stuff, promote via myspace/youtube/podcasting, sell your cd's for cost + 10% or give them away, and then hit the road. if you're any good, you'll sell out enough venues and sell enough merch to where you won't need a real job and then can start demanding $10-20/cd.
the only 'artists' that still need labels are bubble gum pop acts that need over production and highly choreographed stage shows w/ fireworks etc because they're not real musicians. - RuffRidr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26Watching the RIAA die in slow motion is fascinating. They keep grasping for new ways to resell the same song over and over. I'm done paying for their overpriced ***** until they reform or go away. I'm no longer paying $18 for a CD with 10 songs on it, 8 of which I don't give a ***** about. And I'm not going to pay ANOTHER $1.99 per ringtone of those same songs. And I sure as hell am not paying extra for the MP3 player of my choice for the privelage to listen to their music.
While most of my music collection is legal, I'll admit that there's some that is not. I feel I've paid more than my fair share to the music cartel over the years. Now I'm taking some back. Payback's a bitch, ain't it RIAA? Start selling a decent product, for a fair price and stop trying to ***** over the consumers with DRM and other crap, and I and others will return in droves. Otherwise, keep seeing your sales decline year after year. - NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Dude, at least TRY to be subtle about spamming your own site. Don't use your name in both the URL and your digg SN.
- canewediggit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19"I can't think of any real artists that have made it without one."
fugazi sold tens of thousands of cd's, toured to packed shows for years and did all of it without label backing or merchandise. and this was before they could self promote on myspace etc. - knaps, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13The RIAA reminds me of that scene from office space...
"So what you do is you take the specifications from the customers and you bring them down to the software engineers?"
"That, that's right."
"Well, then I gotta ask, then why can't the customers just take the specifications directly to the software people, huh?"
"Well, uh, uh, uh, because, uh, engineers are not good at dealing with customers."
"You physically take the specs from the customer?"
"Well, no, my, my secretary does that, or, or the fax."
"Ah."
"Then you must physically bring them to the software people."
"Well...no. Yeah, I mean, sometimes."
"Well, what would you say… you do here?"
"Well, look, I already told you. I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to!! I have people skills!! I am good at dealing with people!!! Can't you understand that?!? What the hell is wrong with you people?!"
---
Honestly, I don't see any musical contribution coming from the RIAA. What's the last thing they actually did FOR music? Music is something that brings people together, and being from a college town, I've seen promoting, production, hosting, everything that goes along with music, all volunteered. There are genuine and honest people out there who (for absolutely nothing other than the good feeling that goes along with contributing to something great) spend their time and effort helping to make music something that reaches more people. The CDs are free, you can donate if you want to (I always do), and you know that you're helping the artists directly.
What I hate to see are these fat-cat labels who don't do anything for the band except "tie a few strings together" with production and booking, then demand nearly all profits made as a result. It's sickening to see such greed be so successful.
Thank goodness the RIAA doesn't hurt the smaller scenes -- some of the only places that true creativity still exist, or my own wallet. - lonelycanuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I've always wondered, why artists don't opt for a direct distrubution system? I mean, I would more than happily part give an artist a dollar, if I knew they were getting the whole dollar, and not just 7 cents. I think the ideal would be to have artists sell music directly on iTMS (or a competitior), keep > 50% of the sales and make the majority of their money of ticket sales.
I hate to line the coffers of RIAA scum. Until something like this is setup, I cannot in good concience stop torrenting. - centinall, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10You probably can't think of any examples because myspace/youtube/podcasting are such new ideas. Give them more time and I'm sure they and technologies to come will flourish.
Anyway, I think this is great news along with them wanting to take a bigger cut from the artists. The more they push, the more the artists will pull away, and hopefully, it will spell the end for these extortionists. - diggumjonez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Labels are an evil necessity if you wish to pursue a career in music as an employee and as part of the old style. If one wants to be a professional, recording musician, there is nothing stopping anyone with the drive and talent from creating their own path rather than taking the guided tour the RIAA companies offer.
Look, the fact you want to play music for a living implies you have the drive to go your own way, just by virtue of the fact you didn't take a 9-to-5 job, or at least aren't planning to stay there. You, meaning any aspiring young musicians out there, can take the reins for yourself, be your own boss, and pave your own way. You'll be just as poor up front as you would with a label, but the only person who can really screw you over will be yourself.
Multitrack recording software is CHEAP if not free. Quality microphones and equipment can be borrowed or rented. Low-quality equipment is free: Four Tet uses the white plastic crane mic that came with every Sound Blaster in the mid-90's to record vocals on several albums and professional remixes.
CD production is likely the most expensive cost you'll experience, but even then you can get 1,000 CD's pressed with covers and cases for under $500 if you look around.
Take advantage of everything the internet has to offer. Send CD's to online radio stations that your music would apply to. Make dreamy electronic music? Send a CD to the guys at SomaFM. Put some CD's on CDBaby. Hell, give a few away on craigslist to the first 10 people to respond to an ad. Send your gig announcements to any local listing service that you have. Here in Seattle, we've got SeaSpot handling the hip-hop crowd, and The Stranger newspapers weekly listing of all events. There's Myspace, craigslist, and dozens of other listing-specific services that won't cost a dime.
Shmooze. Very few people in any profession in life ever got successful by not meeting people. You can commiserate with your friends at the coffee shop all you want, but they are not going to make you a success. Teach underprivileged youth drum skills or guitar basics at your local YMCA. Schedule a breakdance demo outside your favorite record store and dance to your latest song. Whatever your talents are, share them. Get the publicity that doing good deeds can garner when the right people are made aware. Send a letter to the news stations or local topics shows and let them know when you're holding those drum seminars and how it's changing those kids lives.
The CD or mp3s you make available is simply a product. A successful career consists of a lot more than selling that product, but requires making people aware or desirous of that product, and anticipating more. By refusing to accept the "old guard standard" that the labels represent, you walk away from one tiny door to the entire rest of the world. If your talent is good enough, and if you actually care about your music and the people who would listen to it, you'll find that you'll have the opportunity to become as successful as you want to be. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I don't know if I should digg this down as innacurate or not. The scenario mentioned in the summary only got about a signle sentence of coverage.
Are labels really looking for a cut of profits from artists that they had zero input into? - bennyboy371, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Okay, lets destroy them. This has gone too far. Their major bitching point so far has been that the artists are getting less money, now they take more. There can't be a single supporter of them now.
- squison, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I like this quote..
"The industry has “a lot of bands that people care about for five minutes and then move on,”"
So true. Labels make as much crap as they can and occasionally one sticks and sells a couple albums. There are so few new artists out now that actually have enough talent to stay on top. - ttiwguitar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9well, one of the big pluses of being on a label is distribution. if you're doing the label thing yourself it's going to be hard to have your cd available everywhere unless you're hooked up with a nice distro, which takes money and credibility. plus, labels taking a percentage of merch sales is nothing new... for better or worse.
- pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5***** the labels, and ***** the cartels (RIAA, et al)
New and coming artists are cutting out these greedy behemoths in droves. The flood gates have opened, it is but a matter of time.
Some here keep asking "Why do they put up with it?" and there is a simple answer. Two, really. Some are just new artists so desperate to get their career going they are willing to sign the dotted line and give away 99% of their profit to these thugs. The others are established artists who really don't give a damn about money (they don't need it) and see the marketing efforts of the big labels as a valuable resource worth paying for.
And, folks, you haven't seen just how greedy these bitches are yet. Universal's "deal" (read: extortion) with Microsoft whereby they receive a royalty payment for every Zune sold is just the beginning. Expect all the labels to try this with the others, namely Apple, when negotiation time comes up again.
Now, back to the torrents. - Moosebern, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@ttwiguitar
While I do agree that having a major label definitely is a plus, if you do make it big there are contracts that are distribution-only. Meaning the record company isn't going to put up any money for production, pre or post, but will take a smaller cut for distro only. It's still kind of *****, but ***** man, the major labels lick balls. - jetsetsc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It's not quite direct, but CD Baby fits the bill here. For a relatively tiny fee, they get your songs on iTunes and all of the other (yes, there are other) digital distribution sites. They also get you a barcode, digital song ID's, and some actual bricks and mortar distribution. They do take a small cut of sales, but it's nothing like the record companies.
I think self-releasing is the way of the future, where bands sign up with distributors, promoters, etc, without a "record company" in the middle. As long as you've got quality stuff, and are willing to tour like the dickens, there's nothing preventing bands from doing this. I expect to see more of it in the near future. - fremeer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I like iTunes but i dont want that becoming the conglomerate either. The reason RIAA is so strong is due to its ability to completely control music distribution and promotion for the last 60 years. Now that a new form of distribution and promotion is out they are getting scared because it is one they cannot effectively control. They suddenly realize their monopoly is gone and they need to somehow make money from a different avenue. Too bad for new artists cause they need the company more then the company needs em.
- Coffeedemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Aren't Fugazi on Dischord? I don't know if they always were but thats where they are now (certainly not a major label - IINM Mackaye started it himself but its still a label).
For that matter whats going on with them? Its been forever since the Argument. - Digitalmarley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5wahhh...i might have to downsize from a mercedes to a bmw if my recording artist doesnt give me a cut of his lunchbox merchandising money.Record labels and their executives are pilot fish, sucking money of talented musicians to support their lavished lifestyles of $1000 lunches, all night parties and
Every song we download for free, is a step towards the demise of this bloated empire. The internet will one day allow musicians to create, market, distribute and profit from their art without some nosferatu record executive tricking them into signing their lifes and talent over for a non-recuperable cash advance. - Coffeedemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think Greg Graffin said it best when asked about moving Bad Religion from Epitaph to Atlantic. "If you care more about the label a band is on than the music they make ... maybe you're an idiot".
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ttiwguitar -- "well, one of the big pluses of being on a label is distribution. if you're doing the label thing yourself it's going to be hard to have your cd available everywhere unless you're hooked up with a nice distro, which takes money and credibility."
Not true. I used to play with a rockabilly/psychobilly band (VERY niche stuff), albeit we were mid-level in the niche, so people knew who we were. We got hooked up with a small distro who made a distro deal with Tower Records. After that, you could buy our CDs in pretty much every TR in the world. ... And it didn't cost us anything (other than us taking care of the manufacturing the CDs ourselves). The small distro bought our CDs from us at a fair price and sold them for a profit on their side.
You just need a *smart* distro. - canewediggit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"yeah, and i bet everyone here has heard of them too" - ok, maybe a fugazi reference is a bit dated for the digg crowd but i was just trying to prove that bands made it happen before they had things like protools, myspace, and podcasting. so they should have no excuse to use the labels now that they have those wonderful self produce/promote avenues.
and it doesn't matter whether or not everyone here has heard of them. when you sell the # of albums and play the # of packed houses they did, you make enough loot to be a well compensated musician and not have worry about a day job because you're not giving a huge cut to the label. and they didn't have to sell crappy merchandise or sell out to car company ads to do it.
- ajb2015, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Clap your hands say yeah" anyone? They produced like 10,000 cds in their apartment and sent them to eager fans. How did they gain popularity? Bloggers, word of mouth, and giving away mp3's on their website. They released their first album sometime in June 2005 and by the fall they were playing sold out shows.
http://www.clapyourhandssayyeah.com/ - jfossboss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3What is the incentive for artists using recording industry's service? If were to use them, they'd take a whole lot of money and only provide simple promotional services, which i can do myself, online in my spare time, and probably enjoy doing, and can do better than them. r/o? in addition to robbing me of my creation
- protogenxl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4For an example of a band that is almost completely free of RIAA influence see the String Cheese Incident, also if Apple took ITunes to the next level they Could blow the RIAA and The Record Companies out of the water.
To update an old newspaper adage
Never Pick A Fight With Someone Who Buys Bandwidth By The Terabyte - itisme, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The thing with promoting high fashion changeable markets is they change.
Many big labels will effectively write themselves out of the equation like this and by segmenting via DRM. Open up to change or end up like last years handbag! - hypercube33, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm so sick of ***** labels. I dont like any artist they have anyhow, and when/if I find an artist who is foolish enough to be on one of these labels, I quickly decline to purchase anything of theirs.
I found most of the music I enjoy through "Pirating" music - its no wonder: people who like something you like, usually have found things you dont know but you'll also like. Isnt that the idea behind pandora (if it worked?)
I'm really under the impression that CD's arent worth much - figure this:
Something under Captialism is priced due to its value - what someone is willing to pay for it, availability etc. and piracy obviously shows that its not worth too damn much.
This doesnt mean that I'm trying to stick it to the man, he can stick himself. I've gone to more shows than most people. If I like a band, I'm at their show buying their things there, and no where else.
If anyone asks what lables I like:
Cement Shoe Records
Nuclear Blast Records
Cheers. - pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Perhaps we will see another BMI emerge. For those who don't know the history of the music business, BMI was formed to stop the ASCAP monopoly which was (literally) killing the business.
And you're right. This entire fight is about much more than $$$. It's all about power and control. The cartel will accept nothing less than total control of the content from artist to end user and each and every stop in-between. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2""I can't think of any real artists that have made it without one."
fugazi sold tens of thousands of cd's, toured to packed shows for years and did all of it without label backing or merchandise. and this was before they could self promote on myspace etc."
Don't forget NOFX. - Coffeedemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nice reply to a question about Fugazi's 'label' status ... obviousy you've been taking their message to heart.
I was going to originally ask why you thought some unknown as Lily Allen not being able to make it alone warrented the existance of labels. - wacka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Direct distribution is tough for several reasons if you want to actually produce CDs. Maybe its easier now if you just opt to do downloads, but even then you have to either know how to get an online store up and running or know someone who does. Then you have to figure out how to take credit cards. Knowing how to do it is, of course, half the battle -- you can use Paypal and other services, it just takes a good bit of work. And many musicians would rather just make music.
- wabbitman1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People are realizing that these CDs are not worth the 18-20 dollars that these retailers charge. This is why Tower Records went under. They are literally pricing themselves out of the marketplace. That is what an out-of-touch mammoth dinosaur-like business model would do. I think its a shame-and its ironic they always always blame the pirating. There is not even enough good music out there if you were to pirate it! I think until they start 1) making better music and 2) lowering the prices, the music industry will continue to be on the decline and they will continue blaming it all on pirates!
- crxyem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I can't think of any real artists that have made it without one."
Grateful Dead
Phish
Pink Floyd
Fugazi
albeit they were signed to record labels but they didn't do very much for the artists.
These three did it 99% on there own terms and I'm sure there are more.
Fugazi being an exception as they didn't have a label - 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ wacka
that's why it's called the Music "Business" - djm91, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But, would you really be willing to give the recording industry MORE of your money?
- djm91, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't understand why the artists put up with this. Just a couple days ago i was talking to someone about how artists make little money from CDs, its from the t-shirts, tours, etc.. that they get their money, but now the record company even wants a piece of THAT.
I guess the only reason the record companies aren't just "run out of buisness" is because the artists and the record companies go together. without the record companies theres no way to promote yourself, but without the artists the record company will go out of buisness (putting MANY people out of work, and shutting down MANY opportunities for work).
I don't know how many people will agree with me, but i think that it's VERY possible to get your music out there without the help of a record company. I have a huge collection of songs, and at least 1000 of the songs are from artists I got introduced to from Myspace, Limewire, and Youtube. I think that even without record companies it would be very easy to get your music out there, and we could come up with a new way of promoting by maybe some sort of very popular website (that artists would pay, instead of the record company) to get their music out there. - 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1cardboard ad's, paper ad's, radio payola, movie tie-in's, industry hook-ups
I'm not for majors in anyway, but they do provide all of the above.
no matter what
DO NOT SELL YOUR PUBLISHING! [join ascap for free, hire an entertainment lawyer and handle your own publishing, never let anyone own you] - Dunce, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Im glad that there are people out there who realise the potential in online marketing for bands and music in general. Think about all the options when it comes to advertising...you won't have to settle for Google Adsense, you can go to music companies etc. Bands dont need to websites anymore just log on to myspace and meet, share, and build traffic.
Traffic is a for of FAN! - 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1just don't sell your publishing, EVER
- 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1doesnt help the labels don't develop artists, they are just a single's hit factory which really isn't anything new, develop your own skills and you will succeed
- Amonblack, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Screw that!
- jake8689, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2so insted of making buckets of cash they want boat loads of cash..... oh well thats understanable...............NOT!!!!!!!
- wacka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm not so sure that music should be considered a product anymore. That seems to be why the recording industry sounds like they are drowning. If people would re-think of music as a service, then that would put the whole discussion about how to succeed in the music business (which does not mean the recording industry) on a more productive level.
The NYTimes article looks at things ONLY from the perspective of the recording industry and the numbers that they report. The music industry is on the way to pushing the recording companies out of the picture, though musicians will continue to produce music -- and those that see themselves as providing a service will do better than those who just try to sell a product. - djm91, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I can honestly say I don't know most of the artists record labels I listen to.. Does anyone else actually base the music they listen to on how good the artist was promoted or how popular the record company is?
- djm91, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Does anyone agree with me here that the music industry has become too much for the money? People like Paris Hilton who make enough money as it is, is now into the music industry but shes nothing different than the other pop singers like Brittany Spears or Christina Aguilara. I think now everyones just into making CDs to
1) get them famous and their name in magazines
2) get some extra cash
3) or if their already famous, get their name out there to different groups of people - djm91, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Sorry for asking, I don't really know much of Pink Floyd, but they really did it all WITHOUT a label?
- HiFi613, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0The fact that the labels are looking for $$$ from other aspects of the artists' career is probably a good thing...
wait.. before you get your sticks and stones hear me out.
basically the labels are marketing machines for their bands.. forget that indie stuff.. most bands want to make serious cash.. so they sign to a label to open the doors that indie bands can't get opened.. radio, MTV, etc.
so if they (the labels) can get a cut of the other aspects of the aritsts' career, then they'll be more willing invest $$ to break them.
it's a win win (kind of).
it's less of a record deal more of a management deal.
HiFi - itisme, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2http://www.vorbis.com/music_links/
- MatthewDuke, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Record labels can "s" my "d"...
I'm the 39th biggest rockstar in NE Ohio and I've never needed a record label or recording studio for anything. Just a mac, Garageband, a synth I bought for $90 at a pawn shop, and a USB preamp. Done. I'll be 38th soon...patience Matt Duke, climb the ladder...(twittles fingers like Mr. Burns)
http://www.myspace.com/mattdukemusic - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+4"fugazi sold tens of thousands of cd's,"
yeah, and i bet everyone here has heard of them too - joelevi, on 10/12/2007, -40/+2Related article: http://www.joelevi.com/blog/index.php/2006/12/11/riaa-artists-paid-too-much/
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