What is Digg?218 Comments
- alexanderg, on 05/13/2008, -2/+67thats awsome, not boring.
- buddamus, on 05/13/2008, -2/+61Cool now I can make music, put it on Bit Torrent then sue my nan for downloading it
- Teej, on 05/13/2008, -2/+50The next gen of music making on computers is not going to be made in Java.
- Jookly, on 05/13/2008, -3/+41It's cool but this idea wont replace professional recording equipment any time soon. Even really good digital compressors still don't sound as good as the analog ones and a free version wont cut it for people with a discerning ear. Would be nice if it inspired some kids to go after the real gear.
- stelriah, on 05/13/2008, -5/+39NIN API Crossover?
- jongos, on 05/13/2008, -5/+37Although I work mainly as a developer now, I have worked in the music industry professionally for the past 5 years and one thing that boggles my mind is that as the cost to produce music gets cheaper because of technology like this, the amount of money labels are charging to release it is going up. Eventually when the cost to produce it is next to nothing and the cost to distribute it is nothing (mp3's and peer to peer sharing) then eventually the cost to purchase it will have to approach nothing as well. It's inevitable.
- hipnerd, on 05/13/2008, -4/+30Linux, GIMP, Inkscape, OpenOffice, uTorrent and countless others beg to differ.
- solid12345, on 05/13/2008, -1/+19No no, the next generation of music is in flash soundboard files with napoleon dynamite quotes!
- OpaqueMurdock, on 05/13/2008, -2/+18It is fun and cool, but a far cry from being a "Free Music Studio" or giving us "No More Excuses"
The title of the article should read: "Free Music Studio For Serious Beginners Means No More Excuses To Get Started Learning How To Make Music That Sounds Very Familiar!"
If they are planing to add a lot more functionality as I am sure they are I can see it growing into a powerful tool, but that is a long ways off. As it stands now you would hit the limitations of this "studio" the second you wanted to create music that was outside of that very narrow group of genres that base the rhythm section on TR-808 TR-909 and TB-303. Yes folks! belive it or not there is OTHER music in the world! *shock* and some of it dares not use the sounds of these ancient and mysterious devices! OooooOOooooo.
Now, don't get me wrong, I am NOT a luddite. I was sequencing way before it was cool and that continues to be the main way I compose. But just like everything, you have to do it in moderation or it becomes played, watered down and weak. So back when I was using early copies of performer on my 512ke I swore to the people that accused me of being a "Button Pusher" that the future would hold endless choice and variety and that NO WAY would everyone still be using the same samples of inferior drum machines from decades ago! I claimed that Popular music would become this vast sea of diversity and choice, with people using anything they hear as a building block! But mostly I assured them that people would always respect the talent of a well payed drum track or bass line... Oops.
Chances are It will be many years before a web based music solution will manage to sport a decent sounding grand piano for example. Those of you who have been doing this for a while will know why. Those of you who are scratching your heads saying to yourself "why?" should spend some time learning about recording and music technology in my humble oppinion... it helps in the long run if you know why things are the way they are.
So in summary... This is a good start, but don't expect to use it to record anything like the finished and polished product of your heroes and defiantly don't expect to create something with it that is do far off from the purpose it was made for. The music that comes from it will likely tend to be very similar... but of course thats not out of line with much of music from the last few decades.
If thats what you are shooting for... get to work! - 1807, on 05/13/2008, -6/+22I guess Macs aren't the "artists" best friend after all.
- OpaqueMurdock, on 05/13/2008, -0/+13Common man, are you seriously suggesting that someone would use this to produce a studio release? What exactly did you do "professionally in the music industry"?
I am not trying to be an ass, and you are very right about the costs dropping drastically. But there is a HUGE difference between this and what current pro gear costs. You are doing a great disservice to independents who are trying to recoup costs if you promote the idea that making music is free.
If you want to produce a pro quality product you can do it these days for a pretty affordable sum but it is still very expensive by most individuals standards and the time and effort that goes into it also needs to be accounted for.
So yes, to a record company its penuts... But, they still spend enormous amounts because they can and if spending $300,000 more makes it sound 2% better than what we can do then thats worth it to them. The customer will perceive that 2% difference and discount the Independent as "Sucking". To us that same amount we spend to "get close" is a crap-load of money. Trust me... this little Do-dad won't cut it. A hundred free pieces of software wont make you sound like a studio recording.
You need good quality gear and depending on the style of music you are doing... that will cost you some jack. - aladrin, on 05/13/2008, -2/+14Not exactly. That's like asking a Photoshop pro to only save their work as a flat image, and ignore all the layers and other data.
- AndreMichelle, on 05/13/2008, -1/+13Hey guys,
I am the lead developer of the Hobnox AudioTool. I read all your comments and I like to share the big picture behind this application with you.
First of all, I appreciate that most of you already compare our demo application with professional software. Unfortunately I think that some comments are tending to undervalue it because of the direct comparison to actual professional audio software. Well, on the one hand you are right. Hobnox AudioTool at its current version is nothing more than a toy, a demonstration of what we are developing. Which is nevertheless an online audio software with an admittedly small feature set, missing automation and no option to save your set - but online. However moving audio software online generally means sharing, co-operate and remixing music all over the world without having software installed. It is the future. No way around.
Further, we do not think of leaving the application at its current state. We are now developing a timeline to automate everything that is possible and of course take care that you will be able to save and share (if you want) your arrangement. The emulation of the Roland devices is a catchy approach to focus on a fast learning curve and fun. We have plenty of more advanced ideas for the application even low-level modular synthesis. Every developer on the AudioTool has experience in audio software as Logic, Cubase, Reason, Ableton, Reaktor, et cetera. We do not attempt to emulate one of them. We try a different way of composing - however the difference in professional audio applications are not that big either.
For the records, we DO NOT think to charge anyone to work with the application in future. As long as I am involved in this project - it is promised. We are thinking of premium content as extended plugins and sound library though.
Please see my comment as a way to ask you guys to help us make this application the way it should be: a great and easy to use music production online application. Send us your feature requests: What would you expect from an online music studio in the future? info[@]hobnox.com - Philbert, on 05/13/2008, -0/+9This reminds me a lot of Rebirth, which is no longer updated, but the last version has been made available for free
http://www.rebirthmuseum.com/ - Jookly, on 05/13/2008, -1/+10Only a fool who has never used pro tools would say that it is horrible...... That must be you.
- bhrgero, on 05/13/2008, -4/+12this tool is great. never thought wasting time can be that much fun. the sound blows me away!
- Jookly, on 05/13/2008, -0/+8You must not be very interested in music in that case.
- lysdexic, on 05/13/2008, -2/+10I love the sound of 303, 808, and 909, but why, oh why, do software developers keep emulating the terrible programming interfaces on these boxes. I still believe that was Rebirth's major downfall.
Also free studio solutions have been around for years (including Rebirth, which has the same dual 303, 808, and 909 emulations. you can get it from propellerhead's site). There hasn't been an excuse for a long time. - dogatemypron, on 05/13/2008, -5/+13Insert homemade rick roll audio link {here}
- MiddleOfNowhere, on 05/13/2008, -0/+8An amazing technical effort, but as others said: Making music is resource-intensive, and both the interface and the audio engine(s) consume CPU power like mad. You do not want to waste that using Java and the browser.
In terms of interface design, this project is just a beautifully designed accident. There you have all these wonderfully rendered hardware units - but even to use two machines, you have to scroll.
If someone wanted to give the would-be web musicians a more-than-the-sum-of-its-parts browser-based soft synth environment (maybe even with a collaboration feature), it should stray from emulating those retro units, using a minimalist design with objects (sequences, synths, mixers) that can be put into folders and treated as macros. It would also need import and export formats. Then everyone could either fiddle with a nice little loop or try his hand on more complex compositions. Displaying a photo-realistic TR808 and a few pedals just shows Photoshop skills; it is not a "studio". - gutistg, on 05/13/2008, -2/+8It's more like asking the average Photoshop Express user to save their file as a jpg.
- ohryankelley, on 05/13/2008, -1/+8Awesome, really digging the new update (TR-808 & new foot pedals)
- DeFex, on 05/13/2008, -1/+7yes native CPU applications are much to fast what with all these new fangled core duos and stuff., use java to slow them down to Pentium 2 level.
- Philbert, on 05/13/2008, -2/+8Ha ha! -Nelson
- kingtriumph, on 05/13/2008, -1/+6Yeah, you must have never used Pro Tools before. If you have one ounce of musical creativity you can create better beats in Pro Tools than you ever could with that app. One hit samples and grid mode anyone? I mean, seriously, how could anyone use AudioTool for any kind of real music production? If you're just learning or curious, maybe it's a decent way to experiment and get an idea of how to program "beats", but you're going to have to use Pro Tools (or Logic, or Sonar or Nuendo) at some point in your production process. And Pro Tools can run all kinds of soft synths and plugins, so yeah, it can do what this AudioTool thing can do, only better and with way more features to facilitate the other aspects of music production. It's not all about "making beats", son.
- Teej, on 05/13/2008, -2/+8You're right, Pro Tools doesn't do the same thing this soft synth does.
However, Pro Tools is "horrible"? Why do you think it's used in an absolute metric ton of studios around the world? I've used it to record and mix an album...rock solid program and it didn't take me too long to figure out where everything was. - sleepwalkers, on 05/13/2008, -2/+6Don't think stelriah was saying anything about NIN/Trent using this to make music, but instead allowing US to remix the multitrack files he puts up online on the remix.nin.com website in this.
- computergod, on 05/13/2008, -0/+6Yeah, it's not exactly a good idea to be making resource intensive things in Java. It['s nice for the kids and all, and I like that people are pushing boundaries, but there are many free, light weight versions of software by the big boys.
http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/free-vst/emu ...
Lots of stuff on that site, the page I linked to just has a few VST synths, explore that site for a bunch more stuff. There is this cool reaktor clone I used to use that I can't find there though. - gutistg, on 05/13/2008, -3/+10If you can hear them you can save them.
- OpaqueMurdock, on 05/13/2008, -1/+6Sure, there will always be exceptions to any rule.
I enjoyed listening to those tracks, I can't say I would ever put them in my personal library but I see them as a valid form of art. Its similar to collage when compared to an oil painting, both totally valid and deserving of respect. The thing to remember is that the one that takes less time and equipment does not invalidate the one that takes much longer.
The audience for the music you presented may never be mainstream and thats cool, my music is off the beaten path also, but you should feel very lucky that you can do it so inexpensively. If thats what you enjoy then, rock on my friend. But I am afraid that any comparison falls down right about the point were I have to mic a drum kit or process a vocal track. I don't get to enjoy that same advantage and stay true to my artistic vision.
Good luck racking up more smiles bud! : ) - cerejota, on 05/13/2008, -5/+12I remember Rebirth 1.0 in 1995 and then FruityLoops. They created a revolution in how we produced music in the computers. Now its time for the next gen.
- sgxyay, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5There have been free music sequencers for years...just not in your browser. I don't understand "No more excuses." The excuse before was that it was too tough to download and install software?
- Frost9999, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4Let's assume there are kids out there with internet access.
- entiendo, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4Can I still use lack of talent, creativity and initiative as an excuse? I sure hope so.
- cr4wl3r, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4http://www.hobnox.com/index.914.en.html
- dumpyhumpy, on 05/13/2008, -1/+5... which is unnecessarily painful...
When you sit down to record and mix, as soon as you have to be a computer dork and start doing stuff like that you loose the vibe that you sat down with. - mnemy, on 05/13/2008, -1/+6Now HS/College students can save time on DLing FruityLoops illegally and play around with this to determine they dont have the patience to construct a full song piece by piece! Amazing!
- cdawzrd, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4That's cuz iBooks are slow as all *****.
- therightclique, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4Does no one understand what "next gen" means? Next gen is not something that happened in the past. It is referring to the technology that is...... wait for it..... NEXT!!!!! idiots.
- Flamancot, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4"Coming soon...
Audiotool Version 2.0:
-Save and load your work
-TR-808 emulation
-New modules: effect devices, synthesizer, drum computer, sequencer, sample editor
-Collaborate with other users " - VinceNoir, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5Exactly. The bandwidth needed to do real quality work is not available to the average home user via the internet. Some folks here need to read Bob Katz's "Mastering Digital Audio". It's a wealth of knowledge that even went beyond what I learned in audio production school. Once you read that and understand it, then you'll see why this is basically a web based Casiotone. Fun. Possibly allows you to work out some song ideas. But in the end, not useful for real music production. And it won't be until everyone has at least 5 gigbit internet connections at home that are synchronous...
- inactive, on 05/13/2008, -1/+6Yeah no kidding kid. But not being able to sync the loops with the audio recording program I am using severely limits the usefulness of this product.
Thanks for your curt and arrogant response that does nothing to address my comment. - sgxyay, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5Bad musicians make bad music regardless of the tools.....
- therightclique, on 05/13/2008, -0/+4I prefer the Mr Rogers "Have you lost your kitty?" ones.
- employeeno5, on 05/13/2008, -2/+6Hobnox is shaping up to be pretty darn cool.
- dafragsta, on 05/13/2008, -0/+5This is REALLY cool, but without automation and an ability to manipulate clips and samples, it's only going to get you so far. For people who are interested in learning more about making music, I HIGHLY recommend Ableton Live. There have been a lot of strides in user friendliness coming from Ableton. It's the only DAW that hasn't frustrated me into submission. Now I spend about 3 nights a week (often times more) making music in Live.
- OpaqueMurdock, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3Point taken... I might have gotten carried away there. : )
- jeriqo, on 05/14/2008, -0/+3You clearly have no idead what a "music studio" is.
- IHaveIssues, on 05/13/2008, -1/+4My kids will have a blast with this!
- Alexx3k, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3I think I used to live directly above your flat in Berlin =P I watched a demo of the new hobnox stuff at one of the german expos (I forget which) a couple of months ago. Awesome work guys anyway!
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