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37 Comments
- aogail, on 10/12/2007, -11/+34Microsoft, please remind us all WHY there need to be six versions of Vista? Get with the program -- there should be Vista and Vista Server. That's it.
The worst thing about this particular story is that it obviously took extra work to disable restoration on certain versions, while still making the actual backups. - interiot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17But it's a hidden feature that users should be aware of... if they temporarily save a version of a document that contains possibly incriminating evidence, and then change their mind about the wisdom of storing that incriminating evidence on their drive... there's no way for them to remove it, because it's stored in the hidden incremental data.
You can bet this will show up in a few court cases, and that geeks everywhere will eventually figure out how to disable it, but normal people won't. - fuckingusername, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17I do computer repair so I think Vista will give me alot of business, thanks MS
- saska, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Previous versions aren't backups. They're incremental records of changes made when files are revised. Home users can use Backup & Restore to back up their data in all versions of Vista. Home Premium includes scheduled backups as well. (See http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/backup.mspx for the list.)
The purpose of keeping the incremental information seems obvious to me: if a user chooses to upgrade a system rather than reinstalling the new version of Windows, they need to have access to the new features they buy with the upgrade. - DarkJC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7No, that's just it, you can't turn it off. If you turn it off it turns off ALL restoration services, including System Restore. It's an all or nothing deal.
So if you have Home Basic or Home Premium, either you gimp your system and remove all your recovery options, or you let it eat space for backups you can't even use. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"explain to me why the BASIC version exists ..."
According to Dell, it's only good for "booting the operating system", and "not playing games or running applications." - McTendo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Windows is just Going to be windows forever."
I agree? - SupermanX, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10You may be selling XP 100:1 compared to Vista right NOW... but you wont be doing that next year...
- BLKMGK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You've missed the point - it's not that the feature isn't there it's that the feature IS there silently "backing up" your documents but not allowing you access to them - not even to erase them. Bet your ass someone will figure out how to access them one day when you'd rather they were gone, say in a Divorce, Custody, or "content provider" context.
The issue here, in a day of **AA lawsuits fired like wild shotgun blasts, is that the OS is taking pieces of your data and hiding it. Much like the undo functionality of Word can bite you in the ass on a business memo this thing is laying in wait to bite the user.
If I don't have access to the feature because I've not paid for it fine but this isn't quite that. This is more like the Index.dat files that IE uses to store every freakin' site you've ever visited - silently. What, you thought that clearing your cache actually cleared your tracks? Ooops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index.dat - insomniac8400, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6System restore is not worth having all your documents backed up in a hidden spot on your hard drive just waiting to be subpoenaed. But of course vista is new, so system restore is probably a really important feature. Solution: stay with xp. The only thing Xp will lack is the new directx, but odds are the gaming industry will either get that changed, or will start supporting linux and osx.
- musntSurfatWork, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13My computer distribution company is still selling OEM XP Windows , at a ration of 200:1 to Vista. Don't belive MS in stating they have sold 100 million copies of Vista.
1) those sales are to Distributors that are still STUCK with 90% of Vista Business SKU that no corporation give a flying Window about
2) no end user really wants vista. Just ask my 600 customers-(resellers and integrators)
3) explain to me why the BASIC version exists with all Vista features Stripped???
Too bad, but Vista is the new Millenium there MS. - lucid270, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Ingu's sense is no match for the army of idiot diggers. Fun watching his comment go from +6 to negatives though - once this hit the front page. I think I'll join him.
- LMN8R, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8You get what you pay for. Don't bitch about it if you didn't inform yourself of the features of the product you're buying before you buy it.
Bitch all you want about those prices you need to pay, that's alright with me, but it's your own damn fault if you expect something to be there that was easily apparent you wouldn't be getting before you bought it. - djSyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So now we have an OS installing software that we didn't pay for? Are they going to buy me a new hard drive too?
- chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6all you will ever see is the marketing because you're that sort of user. Try doing something other than going on the internet.
- MacGyver2210, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Wait wait wait, I've used Vista for all of 10 minutes, but the Remote Desktop feature doesn't work in HOME versions? WTF? So now I'm PAYING them to remove functionality I had in the last OS?
Sorry, I'm staying with my nice no-reg site-license version of WinXP. - c5kirk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Okay... I don't necessarily agree with the punchline... but still funny.
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/915.html - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"not even to erase them"
System Restore is now tied to Shadow Volume Copies. I'm not sure of the specific details, but if you erase a restore point, the associated SVC copies should be gone as well. - AdebisiTheGamer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I have no sympathy for anyone who owns Vista Basic and cannot find alternate, free software to do the few little things you may actually need that basic does not provide.
As a side note, I have basic on my laptop, it does pretty much all i need a laptop to do. I was surprised, to be honest, at just how capable the basic version is given all the hype about how useless basic is. I think for about 90% of home users, basic is really the only version you need unless you want to use your computer as a media center. - Szandor, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Exactly. At $60 an hour I'm quite enamored with Vista.
And after a busy day I get to come home to my nice and rock-solid Linux and OS X setups. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The first time you use system restore, and it works, you will leave it on for good. It uses minimal resources, you can toggle between different save points easily, and it is well worth it. I don't recommend the full percent used, but a good compromise is from 2-5%, on modern systems that gives you more than a month worth of typical use to restore from.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3"No, that's just it, you can't turn it off. If you turn it off it turns off ALL restoration services, including System Restore. It's an all or nothing deal."
That's because System Restore now uses VSC for its restore points. - Kazbaeden, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"Microsoft, please remind us all WHY there need to be six versions of Vista? Get with the program -- there should be Vista and Vista Server. That's it."
It's a tactic known as "Price Discrimination" and it is used by monopolies in order to maximize profit. While discrimination has a largely negative connotation, Price Discrimination can be helpful and harmful to the customer.
Let's pretend Microsoft is willing to sell Vista with all the bells and whistles at $300. There are lots of people willing to pay $300 for it, and those people will make up their revenue. But out of those people, there are some who would be willing to pay *more* for the product. There are also those who will not pay $300, but are only willing to pay less. Microsoft therefore is not maximizing profit at the $300 price point.
Microsoft has therefore decided to sell Vista to consumers at the price they're willing to pay. They can determine how much they're willing to pay by looking at the fluffy features they require. So people who are not willing to spend $300 on vista are now able to buy it at a lower price, and are therefore benefitted by price discrimination. However, people who were willing to spend $400 on vista now can't pay $300 to get what they want, so they are harmed by price discrimination. In the end, however, Micrsoft can now tell how much each consumer is willing to pay for their product and charge that much, and are therefore able to maximize their profit.
Really, though, there are only 4 versions you need to concern yourself with: Home, Premium, Business, Ultimate. I don't see how that's difficult. - MacGyver2210, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People actually use System Restore? That usually just screws up my software in some fashion because it removes necessary registration keys in the registry or small files that don't seem associated with anything, but in fact are necessary for a program to run. Same issue with running registry or system cleaners such as CrapCleaner or the like. I always just turn it off to save some HDD/resources for something more useful.
This is, as most 'issues' with Windows, one of those things most powerusers probably won't care about because they have other ways of doing this, like external/secondary/third etc HDDs to use instead. That way, you just reinstall Windows and your documents are exactly where you left them.
At least...that's how I do it. - Firehunter, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5"2) no end user really wants vista. Just ask my 600 customers-(resellers and integrators)"
I did (Home Premium), My fiancee did (Home Premium), My dad did (Business). That makes 3. Just because your 600 customers don't want it doesn't mean that nobody wants it. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Or...just install a free OS alternative, where you don't have to worry about ***** like steep prices or crippled functionality that Microsoft purposely puts in place.
I'll never understand why people insist on putting up with that.
It's YOUR computer. YOU bought it. Use it to the fullest! - BalooUrsidae, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Instead of six versions of Vista, or even Vista and Vista Server, why not *one* version of the OS with everything disabled by default, and the ability to go back through and add the features you need at no extra charge? The free competition does that already with considerable user satisfaction.
- poet, on 10/12/2007, -11/+11Vista is a step backwards in Operating Systems. It's all a marketing ploy to gouge our pockets.
- lucid270, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3All right Digg.... ***** you. An inaccurate article which multiple posters state is inaccurate and get buried. I'm tired of your growing idiot user base. Goodbye.
- linuxmatt, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Borat: Sometime, my sister, she show her vagine to my brother Bilo and say "You will never get this, you will never get this, la la la la la! ...
- cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -15/+12The Server product based on the Longhorn project is slated for release later this year.
Your question is like asking why there are 5 different versions of Ubuntu that I can think of off the top of my head.
I have Home Basic (RC2) running on a system here without the previous versions tab. I'll have to do an eval install of the RTM version to confirm this issue. - dggeek, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4I'm not sure I understand the problem here. You are getting a cheaper version of Windows by sacrificing some features. Shadow Copy is most definitely a feature, not something that is needed. It saves the backups so that you can have them if/when you upgrade to Ultimate. This is a convenience issue. You can turn off the Shadow Copy service if you feel that it is taking up space that you can't use, or if you have tinfoil hat issues with it saving copies of your data that you can't access.
- Blitzenn, on 10/12/2007, -11/+6Buried as inaccurate. Author is mixing up system restore functionality with 'extra' functionality provided in a more robust version. If you want to extra functionality, you have to pay for it.0
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4First, It's not 6.
basic, premium, business, enterprise, ultimate.
That makes 5. But Enterprise doesn't count. It's only available for business customers via MSA. You can't purchase it through retail or OEM channels. It's not even included on the standard Vista DVD.
So that makes 4: Home Basic, Home Premium, Business and Ultimate.
I don't count Home Basic either. It's just an edition made so that OEMs can still get out that $300 box without half of it being software cost.
So that really leaves 3 choices. Home Premium, Business, Ultimate. Is it a home pc? Media center? Get Home Premium. Office PC? Business. Need the features of both? Ultimate. - Inqu, on 10/12/2007, -19/+13Buried as FUD
- lucid270, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2The article is WRONG. Bury it.
- damndj, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2Stupid article..
If you don't pay for the feature, you shouldn't get to use it. Just because the OS is doing its job doesn't mean you should get it for free if you decided to go with a lesser version.
Pop quiz! All versions of Vista install Remote Desktop! Should you get to use it if you only bought the Home editions? No. If you want to use it, buy the versions that have it.
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