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264 Comments
- LMControl, on 01/22/2008, -27/+136Might as well let people run it virtually, since no one really wants to run it in reality.
- doshindude, on 01/22/2008, -44/+122I'll stick to XP, thanks.
- laramsfreak, on 01/22/2008, -16/+55I know it's 'in" to make fun of Vista, but not sure why? Been using Vista ever since it came out and not one issue to date. Can someone tell me a legitimate reason for why so much hate? But also love competition so bring it Apple and Linux!
- phaedrusiszen, on 01/22/2008, -6/+35This is a good thing.
The reason behind denying Home Basic and Premium from being virtualized where a sham. They'd work just fine.
That's the lengths Microsoft will go through to be pricks.
Apple still won't follow. They want you to buy the hardware. - Tempest261, on 01/22/2008, -23/+48Too late- I've lost all desire to run Vista in any form.
- screwzluse, on 01/22/2008, -1/+25A virtualized environment is perfect for testing setups, customized installations, etc. A flashy gui is not all vista is good for.
- Psykus2, on 01/22/2008, -0/+20RTFFP? (read the flipping first paragraph?)
"This is a boon to anyone who needs virtualized environments for testing and development." - laramsfreak, on 01/22/2008, -18/+36I know it's 'in" to make fun of Vista, but not sure why? Been using Vista ever since it came out and not one issue to date. Can someone tell me a legitimate reason for why so much hate?
- merreborn, on 01/22/2008, -4/+22That's kind of the point of TFA: If you absolutely *have* to do something in Vista (e.g., test your software), now you can install it in a VM, instead of replacing your existing OS.
- backin5minutes, on 01/22/2008, -10/+27no way in hell will apple approve osx for virtualization
- guytoronto, on 01/22/2008, -9/+26"Apple, your turn is next."
Maybe when Apple becomes a software company. Right now, they are a hardware company, and virtualizing their OS won't improve hardware sales. - deadbaby, on 01/22/2008, -3/+19It doesn't take much to provoke a negative response. If you go from XP, having no problems, to Vista having even occasional problems you will be upset. Probably the biggest negative response factor is that Vista really doesn't offer much that makes it worth putting up with problems.
- doctordbx, on 01/22/2008, -3/+18Microsoft go to lengths to prevent virtualisation and they're pricks.... but Apple are OK because they want you to by hardware?
WTF? - das7282, on 01/22/2008, -5/+20Same here... Been running Vista 64bit for a while now and no issues yet.
- colinnwn, on 01/22/2008, -8/+21I believe that some people have an enjoyable experience with Vista, but apparently there are still issues with some types of not uncommon hardware/software configurations. Here is my experience.
Brother has an Inspiron notebook about 9mo old with XP, it's speedy and sweet to use. Girlfriend has almost the same Inspiron 6mo old with twice the memory and Vista. Girlfriend's laptop is a slow dog. Takes about 5 minutes from a cold boot to be ready to use, several minutes to resume from standby, will go for tens of seconds being unresponsive doing something like opening the file or printer explorer, forgets printers sometimes, a 600mb file copy will take over a minute. For all practical purposes it is unusable (for me at least). I don't know how she stands it, after the first day I would have demanded a free Vista upgrade so I could downgrade to XP legally, or I would have returned it to Dell. - Matt2k, on 01/22/2008, -24/+37I love competition. Linux and Apple, keep it coming.
- mogebier, on 01/22/2008, -2/+15But then Apple can only overcharge you for the OS instead of being able to screw you every time you want to upgrade hardware too.
- Jareth86, on 01/22/2008, -2/+14It was illegal? I've been doing it for months...
- Philbert, on 01/22/2008, -2/+12Facts to back up this statement?
- shakin, on 01/22/2008, -4/+14Whatever they said, it was still a lie. It's not as if somebody is going to stumble upon virtualization and begin using it without any idea of what it is. One thing that has always bothered me about Microsoft's operating systems is the artificial limitations they add into them. Want to use more than two processors? Only on the pro edition. Want to have more than 10 connections? Use the server edition. It's the same software.
- Chicken, on 01/22/2008, -3/+11This is the same welcoming party that XP got when it came out. It'll all blow over soon.
- JasonCox, on 01/22/2008, -10/+18I'm a Microsoft fanboy and even I have to say it's about f***ing time.
- inactive, on 01/22/2008, -7/+14No thanks, xp preforms the same functions and runs far better in a virtural machine, less ram and HD space ahhh
- venom8599, on 01/22/2008, -8/+15Well, to be fair, they never said that the home versions were less secure, but that they were simply trying to discourage the less technically inclined from using virtualization because of potential security concerns.
- grumpyrain, on 01/22/2008, -0/+6You hit the nail on the head. I use XP at work (and 2003 and a handful of devices running embedding *nix variants) and have recently put Vista on my box at home. On the whole, XP does the job. It is reasonably stable and I know pretty much all hardware and software is going to work seamlessly. My 3 year old laptop can on paper run Vista. In fact I could install it today for free from MSDN if I could be stuffed moving all my files etc. But the step up is not worth my while.
Vista is the first Microsoft OS that I have installed which did not require me to insert one driver CD. It detected everything (including a pretty old multifunction) and all of the hardware is working. XP can not even recognise the LAN card half the time, so you need to fish out a floppy from somewhere and install a driver. Good to see they are picking up their game following the lead of most *nix distros.
I spoke to a friend the other day who was telling my of his Vista experience. It sounded like a different OS. Several minutes to come out of hibernate (if at all), made his dual core with 2GB into a dog, etc. I don't blame him for jumping back to XP. But what else can I say. Mine boots up in about 10 seconds (from after bios) and resumes from hibernate in about half that. They do get some criticism for not giving Vista business a DVD decoder demanding you buy a commercial substitute. cough *VLC cough. I am yet to have a crash, and am yet to experience UAC pop up when I am not installing something or jumping into a control panel or copying a file somewhere obscure. - Dunadan, on 01/22/2008, -1/+7I bought a new laptop for school that had Vista pre-installed and so I decided that I would at least use it for a while so I could form my own opinion on it as compared to XP. I can give a couple reasons why, if I didn't already have so many settings set and programs installed I would go back to XP on my Windows partition.
1) In XP I can't remember the last time I had to restart because the system had crashed, in fact, although I had programs hang on occasion, I don't think I've ever had the whole system freeze. In the 6 months I've been running Vista that's happened 10+ times.
2) Connection Manager is awful. Going from one class to another on campus I have about a 30% chance of my wireless getting some odd issue not caught by the connection diagnostic tool that prevents me from connecting to any network until I either restart the whole computer or go in to the control panel and manually disable and then re-enable "wireless network connection." I never had this kind of problem with wifi when running XP and have no trouble now when I'm in Ubuntu*.
3) This one is more of a personal thing, but I find it annoyingly protective. I don't like the stupid "give it permission" messages that pop up for so many different things. For example every time I have to go through the aforementioned process of disabling and re-enabling my wireless connection it asks if I'm sure I want to let it. I can turn it off, but then every so often it bugs me from the system tray warning me that it is disabled. I'm sure there is some hack to disable those messages as well but the point is if I feel safe computing without being babysat I shouldn't have the option to do so.
*Side note: I just find it amusing that often when Vista just refuses to connect to the wireless I'll boot up in Ubuntu so I can get on. Oh how things have changed. - snotrokit, on 01/22/2008, -2/+8Don't know why you are getting dugg down, you're right, keep em comin. Let's get everyone on the same playing field and let us choose what we want, how we want, and where we want. I am a HUGE user of VM's. I have them running on everything. VM Ware on my Windows and Mac's, Xen's on Fedora. All sorts of stuff everywhere. :)
- inactive, on 01/22/2008, -2/+7You're right, but that's called "market segmentation" and it's designed to maximize profits. It's not like Microsoft invented that, it's used in just about every single type of product.
Microsoft is not a charity and it doesn't give its software away. If you dislike their tiered pricing models (which is valid I suppose) then use something else. - dood, on 01/22/2008, -4/+9I think the problem is that the previous OS doesn't suck. 98 had 95, XP had Millenium. Vista doesn't have that -- XP is pretty darn solid. Vista would have to be completely outstanding to win us XP users over, and from what I've read and heard, it's not.
- chriskeyes, on 01/22/2008, -1/+6I think it's just that he likes most of the good stuff that Microsoft offers.
Not everything Microsoft makes is crap, contrary to what some Digg users might think. - Reno582, on 01/22/2008, -1/+6I've heard I lot of problems people have with Vista, I understand the driver problems, the application problems and the file transfer problems, Problems I haven't heard of are virus problems, nor spyware problems (don't misunderstand me, I know how to avoid viruses but spyware was still a problem back when I used XP Home). Yes I used XP Home, and being the piece of ***** it was I will take Vista anyday over XP Home.
- Philbert, on 01/22/2008, -3/+7I'm very happily running it, it looks great and runs perfectly on my x64 machine. Been running it nonstop since I buiolt the machine in August and haven't yet had a crash that was software related. (I had a bad memory stick)
- posure, on 01/22/2008, -0/+4I love Vista, but only after I upgraded my computer with an Intel Core2 Quad and 8gb of ram (note - 8gb of ram not entirely necessary). If your computer is good enough to run it, its better than XP.
- cr4wl3r, on 01/22/2008, -3/+7Dugg for the apple coment. God do i love apple, but they need to open their shell a little bit.
- BossKey, on 01/22/2008, -0/+4My job includes creating screen shots of applications. The applications I work with are cross-platform Mac and Windows. And I have a Mac. So with a single computer, I shoot the Mac screen grabs in OS X, fire up XP in virtualization and take some screen grabs of the app in XP.
Fortunately, I have not had to work on a project yet that required Vista screen grabs. But this announcement means that when that time comes, I can now buy the cheapest Vista I can find and know that it will be supported as a virtual machine.
That's the point. Not everything relies on top 3D support. We're getting a job done, kid, not playing games. - thebellmaster1x, on 01/22/2008, -2/+6Man, was that funny the first ***** times I saw it!
STOP - munkyxtc, on 01/22/2008, -0/+4Vista SP is due out; technically they haven't released anything to fix major performance issues yet. I have a Toshiba laptop that runs perfectly fine w/ Vista but as with everything there is always room for improvement. I'm waiting to see what SP1 does to Vista. If you remember, XP was a giant flaming pile until it's first SP.
- DrIce926, on 01/22/2008, -0/+4I've attempted to install Vista on my custom-build machine twice now. Both times, the installer blue screens and then quits on the first "actual" boot-up. On my parents' Vista machine back home, Firefox will not work. At all. It loads up briefly and then explorer.exe cancels it and pops up a dialog box stating "we have detected a problem with your computer" (very ironic). I use PS2 gamepads for my emulation through USB and neither controller hub (SmartJoy, etc) works in Vista. I play old games sometimes (just played Fallout last night) and they work just fine in XP. I laugh at friends trying to get them to work in the new OS. Random crashes to desktop happen with my roommate's computer even when playing WoW - and he and I have the exact same specs, many of the same programs, etc. He has Vista.
Basically...I don't drink the Kool-aide. I'm a minimalist. I have more but I figure we all need to do something important this morning. - inactive, on 01/22/2008, -2/+6He's getting dug down because This is about MS doing it, Apple doesnt, and its only VMware that's a 3rd party that's been doing it for awnile. So he's being dugg down for inaccurate info !
- nonsapiens, on 01/22/2008, -2/+5I can't help but shake the feeling that, reading through these comments - and their subsequent diggs - that there is a large army of Diggers who are paid MS schills going through the comments and systematically digging everything anti-MS down. Not normally a paranoid tinfoil person, but it's just the feeling I'm getting from reading all of this.
- Myztry, on 01/22/2008, -0/+3A while ago, VMware rather cheekily told Microsoft that had supplanted them as the top tier (besides the BIOS obviously) on a Windows based computer. It's probably a fair part of the reason Microsoft got so anal about virtualisation.
But now, even Microsoft can't deny the fact. Windows is just another layer like other 'programs'. It can even be nested multiple rungs down from the top. - Kamujin, on 01/22/2008, -0/+3Linux = worth credit.
Apple = no credit. (legally) Won't run on non-Apple. Won't run in VM. - MacSuxWindozSux, on 01/22/2008, -0/+3For the same reason a Console is hassle free with it's games.
- Philbert, on 01/22/2008, -0/+3The only driver problems I've had were not because of vista, but because of my 64 bit CPU. Epson Doesn't support my printer any more, but Vista came with drivers for it.
- iofthestorm, on 01/22/2008, -3/+6How sure are you of that? Just because they showed that they can shrink the kernel down for Windows 7 doesn't mean that that's how the final version is going to be. That was a research project, not a final consumer version of an OS - very different.
- TechCF, on 01/22/2008, -1/+4I have been running my Vista Ultimate Retail in VirtualBox for some time. Kinda a waste to use a $820 (yes it costs that here) os for that.. good thing the cheaper editions can now be used.
- ajwinder, on 01/22/2008, -3/+6A lot of the reason why Apple's OS works so seamlessly and without issue is that they know exactly what hardware configurations their OS is going to be sitting on. You run into driver-hell on windows because of that, and thats also where you arrive at a bunch of stability issues. I don't think Apple wants to spend the engineering dollars to get all of that figured out, and even when they do, they're not going to be able to guarantee a level of quality that they currently do.
Its a business choice, and its certainly one that I'm content with as a mac owner. I'd rather them be able to focus on issues like advancing the desktop experience, instead of having to spend months and months of pre-release time certifying drivers to work with their machines, and other such organizational nightmares.
I'm still challenging someone to find something in the macbook pro range that compares spec-wise and blows it out of the water on price. Even the grand I spent on my macbook doesn't seem exorbitant, and hell, I'm a penny-pinching student.
Apple's going after a professional market with their products. They're enticing people to come on board who want to spend less time futzing around with stuff, and more time working. So I don;'t think they're exactly about to lose sleep over losing the audience that likes to build their own machines. The more attractive option would be having a dell reseller, but again, they make a ***** off hardware sales, so I don;'t see why they'd change their business model to essentially placate the internet forums. - MacSuxWindozSux, on 01/22/2008, -1/+4Microsoft is always at it's best when they have fierce competition.
Microsoft is always at it's worst when they have no competition.
XBox 360: Success
Internet Explorer 6: Failure
Office: Success
Vista: Failure
Windows Vienna is probably going to be really good. (Since Apple's back) - Charlotte_Web, on 01/22/2008, -0/+3What exactly does this mean? Did MS only change some licensing legalease, or is there actually some code changes to Vista Home editions?
- iofthestorm, on 01/22/2008, -2/+5Agreed - wouldn't make sense until you can install OS X on any x86 computer legally, which is highly unlikely given how much Apple likes control.
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